2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Wild Bill]

Watch Triumph's Election Special 2016 Online - Triumph's Election Special 2016 | Hulu

 

[GoIrish41]

Glenn Beck Thinks God Killed Antonin Scalia To Help Ted Cruz Get Elected President

Wow!

 

[kmoose]

Glenn Beck Thinks God Killed Antonin Scalia To Help Ted Cruz Get Elected President

Wow!

Not sure why that would garner a "Wow!'? Political commentators on both sides are constantly saying outrageous things to generate a buzz. It's what they do. This is kind of like putting a mouse in with a snake and then saying, "Didn't see that coming!" when the snake eats the mouse.

 

[GoIrish41]

Not sure why that would garner a "Wow!'? Political commentators on both sides are constantly saying outrageous things to generate a buzz. It's what they do. This is kind of like putting a mouse in with a snake and then saying, "Didn't see that coming!" when the snake eats the mouse.

When Trump said Scalia may have been murdered, that was outrageous nonsense to generate buzz. When Beck said God was the trigger man, that gets a "Wow!"

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Check out @USATODAY's Tweet: https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/700421730372820992?s=09

SIAP

I know Trump is going for this "not backing down to anyone" approach, but getting cocky with the Pope?

Classy.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

When Trump said Scalia may have been murdered, that was outrageous nonsense to generate buzz. When Beck said God was the trigger man, that gets a "Wow!"

I didn't hear Beck say that God killed Scalia. He thinks that God allowed Scalia to die as a "wake-up call" to Americans. Still a crass politicization of the man's death, but far less outrageous (at least from a theological standpoint) than arguing that God actively killed Scalia.

 

[greyhammer90]

I didn't hear Beck say that God killed Scalia. He thinks that God allowed Scalia to die as a "wake-up call" to Americans. Still a crass politicization of the man's death, but far less outrageous (at least from a theological standpoint) than arguing that God actively killed Scalia.

This raises an interesting philosophical "create a rock so heavy" question lol.

 

[woolybug25]

NSIAP

Pope Francis on Trump: Building walls 'is not Christian' - CNNPolitics.com

 

[kmoose]

God Bless him but I think the Pope is treading on dangerous ground, passing judgement on who is, and who is not, "Christian". Are priests who sexually molest little boys "Christian"? Because his Church's stance has certainly been (in recent times) that they are.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

God Bless him but I think the Pope is treading on dangerous ground, passing judgement on who is, and who is not, "Christian". Are priests who sexually molest little boys "Christian"? Because his Church's stance has certainly been (in recent times) that they are.

Spot on.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

God Bless him but I think the Pope is treading on dangerous ground, passing judgement on who is, and who is not, "Christian". Are priests who sexually molest little boys "Christian"? Because his Church's stance has certainly been (in recent times) that they are.

Spot on.

Not spot on but thanks for the #hottake #deepthoughts

 

[wizards8507]

Did anybody else hear Jeb refer to "Anton Scalia" over and over again last night? He also mentioned the time he got confirmed in the Catholic Church on "Easter Sabbath."

 

[Rizzophil]

God Bless him but I think the Pope is treading on dangerous ground, passing judgement on who is, and who is not, "Christian". Are priests who sexually molest little boys "Christian"? Because his Church's stance has certainly been (in recent times) that they are.

Pope is way out of line. Enough said

 

[zelezo vlk]

If the Pope calls you out, you're probably the one who's out of line. Go read the Pope's actual comments and see his charity even in a soft rebuke.

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[wizards8507]

Glenn Beck Thinks God Killed Antonin Scalia To Help Ted Cruz Get Elected President

Wow!

Beck is responding to this live on air and it's absolutely hysterical.

"Jesus came to me and whispered 'Dad is a killer.' Scalia was going to endorse Trump but God came down with a 'Ted Cruz for President' button and held the pillow over his face."

 

[Whiskeyjack]

God Bless him but I think the Pope is treading on dangerous ground, passing judgement on who is, and who is not, "Christian". Are priests who sexually molest little boys "Christian"? Because his Church's stance has certainly been (in recent times) that they are.

Spot on.

Pope is way out of line. Enough said

Here's what he actually said:

Phil Pullella, Reuters: Today, you spoke very eloquently about the problems of immigration. On the other side of the border, there is a very tough electoral battle. One of the candidates for the White House, Republican Donald Trump, in an interview recently said that you are a political man and he even said that you are a pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics. Trump said that if he’s elected, he wants to build 2,500 kilometers of wall along the border. He wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, separating families, etcetera. I would like to ask you, what do you think of these accusations against you and if a North American Catholic can vote for a person like this?

Pope Francis: Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'animal politicus.' At least I am a human person. As to whether I am a pawn, well, maybe, I don't know. I'll leave that up to your judgment and that of the people. And then, a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the Gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt.

In context, it's pretty obvious that he's condemning Trump's divisive rhetoric (note the contrast with "building bridges"), and not the literal act of building walls. Then again, maybe the Pope was being literal, and we should all go out and build an actual bridge immediately in the interest of securing eternal salvation.

Fun fact: One of the Pope's most well-known titles, Pontifex (his twitter handle is @pontifex), literally means "bridge-builder" in Latin.

 

[wizards8507]

In context, it's pretty obvious that he's condemning Trump's divisive rhetoric (note the contrast with "building bridges"), and not the literal act of building walls. Then again, maybe the Pope was being literal, and we should all go out and build an actual bridge immediately in the interest of securing eternal salvation.

In your effort to highlight context, you're ignoring the even broader context that this statement was made almost immediately after a celebration of Mass at the US - Mexico border where he made other comments about the United States' immigration policy. I think his use of the term "bridges" was rhetorical, but I feel like he's being literal, or at least polysemous, when he talks about "walls."

 

[Whiskeyjack]

In your effort to highlight context, you're ignoring the even broader context that this statement was made almost immediately after a celebration of Mass at the US - Mexico border where he made other comments about the United States' immigration policy. I think his use of the term "bridges" was rhetorical, but I feel like he's being literal, or at least polysemous, when he talks about "walls."

I guess people will read what they what to see into it. The Church identifies with the poor and persecuted, so of course he's going to break bread with migrants rather than Border Patrol agents. That doesn't mean it's suddenly immoral for a government to secure its border, or for a family to lock its doors at night.

Trump's got some legitimate points. But he's a demagogue who constantly uses divisive rhetoric to fire up his base of disenfranchised white nationalists. So when that strategy leads him to demonizing poor Hispanic migrants or Muslim refugees, it's quite appropriate for Francis to say, "These are not the words of a Christian."

 

[kmoose]

Here's what he actually said:



In context, it's pretty obvious that he's condemning Trump's divisive rhetoric (note the contrast with "building bridges"), and not the literal act of building walls. Then again, maybe the Pope was being literal, and we should all go out and build an actual bridge immediately in the interest of securing eternal salvation.

Fun fact: One of the Pope's most well-known titles, Pontifex (his twitter handle is @pontifex), literally means "bridge-builder" in Latin.

My only concern was this part:

I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that

If he had presented it as, "That's not a very Christian thing to say", then I would agree completely. But he went beyond that and characterized Trump as "not a Christian", because of what Trump said. Now, I don't necessarily disagree with his characterization, but I wonder how he would explain that priests who sexually molested little boys are still "Christians", but someone who made inflammatory remarks about another group of people is not. It's not a "gotcha" thing, but it appears to be a classic case of, "I want everyone to be held to high standards. Oh, except for the people closest to me; they are only human, after all." And to be clear: I'm not knocking the Pope. I think this guy "gets it" on a lot of subjects. I just think it was a mistake for him to say what he said, considering how much glass his own house is built on.

 

[woolybug25]

My only concern was this part:



If he had presented it as, "That's not a very Christian thing to say", then I would agree completely. But he went beyond that and characterized Trump as "not a Christian", because of what Trump said. Now, I don't necessarily disagree with his characterization, but I wonder how he would explain that priests who sexually molested little boys are still "Christians", but someone who made inflammatory remarks about another group of people is not. It's not a "gotcha" thing, but it appears to be a classic case of, "I want everyone to be held to high standards. Oh, except for the people closest to me; they are only human, after all." And to be clear: I'm not knocking the Pope. I think this guy "gets it" on a lot of subjects. I just think it was a mistake for him to say what he said, considering how much glass his own house is built on.

Does anyone know what language he was speaking in the interview? The reason I ask, is because his english is very slow and with a thick accent. People may be paraphrasing incorrectly.

 

[RDU Irish]

News line I saw on his response to abortion not being a mortal sin was more interesting to me. Don't care enough to look up the context and whatnot.

Pope taking pot shots at a front runner to be leading the most powerful nation on earth doesn't seem that forward thinking to me. Sounds like a Baptist when he is judging who is Christian and who is not. Go ahead and overanalyze what was actually said and how but that is how it is being spun.

And I view Trump as saying the bad folks we let in as part of the crowd are indicting the entire crowd. If I know someone is going to steal my TV and break my dishes if I invite 100 people to my house - too bad to the 99 good folks that don't get to party when I call it off. However if I can control the guest list and end up inviting 50 or 60, too bad to the 39-49 that are good, well intentioned folks who miss out due to my inability to get comfortable with them. It's my f-ing house and I don't have to let anyone in.

 

[zelezo vlk]

News line I saw on his response to abortion not being a mortal sin was more interesting to me. Don't care enough to look up the context and whatnot.

Pope taking pot shots at a front runner to be leading the most powerful nation on earth doesn't seem that forward thinking to me. Sounds like a Baptist when he is judging who is Christian and who is not. Go ahead and overanalyze what was actually said and how but that is how it is being spun.

And I view Trump as saying the bad folks we let in as part of the crowd are indicting the entire crowd. If I know someone is going to steal my TV and break my dishes if I invite 100 people to my house - too bad to the 99 good folks that don't get to party when I call it off. However if I can control the guest list and end up inviting 50 or 60, too bad to the 39-49 that are good, well intentioned folks who miss out due to my inability to get comfortable with them. It's my f-ing house and I don't have to let anyone in.

He said that abortion is not the lesser of two evils. He called it a crime and an absolute evil.

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[Whiskeyjack]

My only concern was this part:

If he had presented it as, "That's not a very Christian thing to say", then I would agree completely. But he went beyond that and characterized Trump as "not a Christian", because of what Trump said.

The reporter asked him this question:

Trump said that if he’s elected, he wants to build 2,500 kilometers of wall along the border. He wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, separating families, etcetera. I would like to ask you, what do you think of these accusations against you and if a North American Catholic can vote for a person like this?

To which the Pope said:

I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt.

Why is that controversial? Given the way the reporter characterized Trump's position, it's entirely fair to respond, "If that's his actual position, then he's not a Christian; but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in the meantime."

Edit: And as wooly touched on above, idiomatic expressions get lost in translation all the time. "If you say this, you aren't a Christian" could easily have the same intention behind it as "That's not a very Christian thing to say." Francis, after all, is much less precise in his speaking than his two predecessors were.

Now, I don't necessarily disagree with his characterization, but I wonder how he would explain that priests who sexually molested little boys are still "Christians", but someone who made inflammatory remarks about another group of people is not. It's not a "gotcha" thing, but it appears to be a classic case of, "I want everyone to be held to high standards. Oh, except for the people closest to me; they are only human, after all." And to be clear: I'm not knocking the Pope. I think this guy "gets it" on a lot of subjects. I just think it was a mistake for him to say what he said, considering how much glass his own house is built on.

Can you point me toward a quote from Francis (or Benedict, for that matter) indicating that predatory clerics are just fallible Christians who deserve a 2nd chance?

 

[kmoose]

Does anyone know what language he was speaking in the interview? The reason I ask, is because his english is very slow and with a thick accent. People may be paraphrasing incorrectly.

That's true. I was just going off of what has been reported.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Does anyone know what language he was speaking in the interview? The reason I ask, is because his english is very slow and with a thick accent. People may be paraphrasing incorrectly.

The Trump question was posed by Phil Pullella, who covers Italty and the Vatican for Reuters. Based on his Twitter feed, he seems to be American, so I assume the question was posed and answered in English.

 

[RDU Irish]

He said that abortion is not the lesser of two evils. He called it a crime and an absolute evil.

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Made me unlazy - quick search yes he was very clear about abortion but open the door to contraception as "lesser of two evils" - not aware of Pope Paul VI in 60s allowing nuns in the Congo to take contraceptives to avoid pregnancy due to rape - what a mess that must have been at the time.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Made me unlazy - quick search yes he was very clear about abortion but open the door to contraception as "lesser of two evils" - not aware of Pope Paul VI in 60s allowing nuns in the Congo to take contraceptives to avoid pregnancy due to rape - what a mess that must have been at the time.

He didn't "open the door to contraception". He stated that abortion is an absolute evil, and is never justified, Zika virus or not. Avoiding pregnancy through abstinence may be justified if Zika poses a substantially heightened risk of birth defects. His mention of Paul VI's extraordinary dispensation for some Congolese nuns is relevant only insofar as it illustrates that avoiding pregnancy is not always sinful. Though choosing such a strange example confused much more than it illuminated here.

 

[pkt77242]

Ted Cruz Has A Huge Math Problem | FiveThirtyEight

 

[Black Irish]

What I find even more troubling with the Pope's quote is that he won't deny the direct charge that he is a" pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics." He handled that badly. Pope Francis should have said that he was acting in accord with Catholic teaching, and denied that he is, in effect, taking sides in a political fight. It puts Pope Francis' assertion that Trump is not a Christian on shaky legs when the Pope can not or will not accurately assess if he is being used by the Mexican government for political ends.

BTW, my own personal opinion is that Trump is only a Christian in the sense that he was maybe raised in a mainline Christian tradition. The last time the guy was probably even in a church is if he was trying to buy it because it would make a good site for one of his condo complexes.

 

[zelezo vlk]

What I find even more troubling with the Pope's quote is that he won't deny the direct charge that he is a" pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics." He handled that badly. Pope Francis should have said that he was acting in accord with Catholic teaching, and denied that he is, in effect, taking sides in a political fight. It puts Pope Francis' assertion that Trump is not a Christian on shaky legs when the Pope can not or will not accurately assess if he is being used by the Mexican government for political ends.

BTW, my own personal opinion is that Trump is only a Christian in the sense that he was maybe raised in a mainline Christian tradition. The last time the guy was probably even in a church is if he was trying to buy it because it would make a good site for one of his condo complexes.

The pawn remarks are a sign to Pope Francis' humility, not his admission that he is an agent or lackey for the Mexican government.

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