Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited


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JughedJones

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I think that's crap.

It's funny.

I'm on a message board that's all about my favorite rock and roll band. Every time they play now, people pick apart every note and say they'll never be what they were at their perceived 'peak.' I sometimes think that this board is the same. We're waiting on some kind of yesterday peak that will never come. My favorite band doesn't play like that anymore, neither does this team.

It's different now.

We gotta pick our spots.

This is it. We will win out. Next year, talent is so running over that we can't keep it in our cup.

Wimbush/Zaire will take us to the Natty. Will we win? I'm not sure.
 
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IrishLion

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I think that's crap.

I think ND has a decent chance of winning out, just like you.

But the reason I think they can win out is because BK now has a good read on how he needs to work with his team before big games... because he deserves scrutiny for how they started against Clemson, but now he's learned from that and knows what his team needs.

I also think they can win out because of the way this team should/will progress. And we saw part of that progression in the way this team responded, and so BK deserves credit for how they finished against Clemson.
 

ulukinatme

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You're talking to the guy who took a... long ban?... because I said... well, I said... something horrible to someone who didn't agree with me.

Anyway, I got this one right. We win out.

Kizer is our guy, then it will be a competition next year for QB, and Kizer won't be in that competition. Sad but true.

It will be either Wimbush, Zaire, or a combination of them both that bring us to next year's Natty.

This is hard for me since I'm firmly in Zaire's court, but I think Kizer could be in the discussion next year at QB still. Do I think he'll win out? Probably not, but I think Kelly plays it safe and he ends up "redshirting" (In quotes, cause...ND and all that) Wimbush next year after having to burn it this year. I think Zaire wins out the job in the end, but Kizer has played well in his limited action. He's just a redshirt freshman, but Deshone led us back against Virginia, played well against GT, and other than the one really bad pick he did pretty well in poor conditions on the road against Clemson. He's not the same kind of leader as Zaire, and he doesn't have the same feet, but he's still a decent QB and can improve given how young he is. If Zaire is like our Teebus, Kizer is kind of like Joe Cool. By next season Kizer will actually have more in game experience than Zaire, and Kelly often prefers experience in close QB battles, but I have the feeling Zaire wins out with Kizer as #2. I think the real question will be what happens once Zaire graduates. Does Kizer pick up where he left off this season, or does Wimbush win out? Too soon to tell of course, we'll see how the rest of the season plays out and how Wimbush's progression goes...but if I had to guess maybe this season is Kizer's only shot to start.
 
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JughedJones

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I think ND has a decent chance of winning out, just like you.

But the reason I think they can win out is because BK now has a good read on how he needs to work with his team before big games... because he deserves scrutiny for how they started against Clemson, but now he's learned from that and knows what his team needs.

I also think they can win out because of the way this team should/will progress. And we saw part of that progression in the way this team responded, and so BK deserves credit for how they finished against Clemson.


I added a whole thing to it.

Go Irish. Love ya man.
 

JughedJones

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I think ND has a decent chance of winning out, just like you.

But the reason I think they can win out is because BK now has a good read on how he needs to work with his team before big games... because he deserves scrutiny for how they started against Clemson, but now he's learned from that and knows what his team needs.

I also think they can win out because of the way this team should/will progress. And we saw part of that progression in the way this team responded, and so BK deserves credit for how they finished against Clemson.

Every Head Coach ever deserves scrutiny for every loss they've ever had.

When do we give them the proper respects for having a team that FIGHTS when FIGHT is in their moniker?

(especially in a loss)
 

JughedJones

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we never rep our guys in a loss.... and it's bullshit.

This was a hard fought game.


Respect

(like it or not our coaching staff is our guys too)
 

In Lou I Trust

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Jughead... I'll take that bet if it's still available. I'll gladly lose my vbucks to see them finish out undefeated.
 

gkIrish

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Can't disagree with anything here:

Notre Dame was supposed to be past showings like Saturday's -- so, now - Notre Dame Fighting Irish - ESPN

They were supposed to be past this by now, these Notre Dame coaches and players. This was supposed to be their year.

A defense starting 10 guys who entered Saturday with 11-plus starts to their names is not supposed to be shell-shocked on its first two drives.
A coach who has made questionable two-point decisions in the past is not supposed to be chasing points with 14 minutes left.
A team with 26 fourth- and fifth-year players is not supposed to come undone on its biggest stage, dropping a number of passes and losing three fumbles in the second half.Yet here the Irish are, five weeks in, their championship hopes dealt a serious blow thanks to a 24-22 loss to Clemson that was littered with problems they were supposed to have outgrown by now.

And the worst part? That alleged vulnerability, a redshirt freshman quarterback who entered Death Valley with two career starts to his name, was more than good enough in less than ideal conditions.
It takes a special kind of 19-year-old to size up one of the nation’s top defenses, ignore the three previous quarters of futility it had put his offense through and proceed to lead his team to three fourth-quarter touchdown drives. It is even more impressive when said teenager does that in spite of his own mistakes, namely an interception deep in his own territory with just 6:36 left.

No, DeShone Kizer was not perfect. His 19-of-34 line included several misfires. But expecting a guy who was a third-stringer six months ago to be flawless in his first road start is unreasonable. He needs support, the kind that juniors and seniors are supposed to provide in environments like Clemson’s.

And yet, there was Will Fuller dropping a pass near midfield in the second quarter, the first real opportunity that came his way. There was Corey Robinson letting a potential 49-yard touchdown slip out of his hands, with the Irish desperate to generate any kind of momentum.

And then, of course, there was that offensive line, which the Irish always figured they could lean on in its darkest times. Their backbone instead surrendered nine tackles for loss (four sacks), paved the way for just 52 rushing yards by running backs, committed three penalties and looked all too predictable to an unforgiving Clemson defense.

Yes, Notre Dame has had tough luck in losing six key players for the season. But the Tigers they lost to have lacked a full deck much of the way as well, winning Saturday without receiver Mike Williams (neck), center Ryan Norton (MCL), end Dane Rogers (ankle) and linebacker Korrin Wiggins (ACL). And that does not even account for the non-injury personnel hits Clemson took this summer, from defensive tackle D.J. Reader taking a leave of absence and linebacker Korie Rogers quitting football, to end Ebenezer Ogundeko getting dismissed and left tackle Isaiah Battle entering the supplemental draft.
Every team has excuses. That does not mean Notre Dame should surrender 14 points on its first two defensive drives. And it does not mean Brian Kelly should go for two down 21-9 with 14:13 left -- a decision all the more perplexing when taking into account the fact the Irish had extra time to prepare for the point-after try since C.J. Prosise’s touchdown was reviewed, and the fact Kelly had a chance to call a mulligan when Robinson had not gotten on the field on time. Instead of a penalty and easy field goal, a potentially key timeout was burned and Robinson dropped the pass anyway. The sequence bit the Irish late, much the same way their misguided two-point try against Northwestern last season led to their undoing.

“We've got to get right to work on Navy, but you don't want to forget about losing an opportunity that we lost here and that should be with them because you can't give away the opportunity,” Kelly said Sunday.

Now what? To even begin to think about re-entering the College Football Playoff picture, Notre Dame must regroup for a Navy team that has recently given it fits, something more difficult to do with USC looming one week later. And even if the Irish were to sort out all of their issues and finish 7-0, their fate would likely remain out of their hands anyway.

“You're on the clock now,” Kelly said. “Every single weekend, you're playing elimination football.”

If they’re lucky -- all of which makes Saturday’s showing even more disappointing. This was supposed to be the deepest team of the Kelly era, with the talent and maturity to match the 2012 group whose shortcomings were exposed by Alabama.

After watching Notre Dame’s alleged title destiny disappear in the Death Valley night, you have to wonder: If not now, then when
 
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IrishLax

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I disagree with almost all of that.
1. Clemson started fast and executed plays. That's what you'd freaking expect with 16 days to watch film, key on tendencies, and script your first 10 or so plays like most teams do. They were aided by two special teams miscues on those drives, and the defense surrendered under 300 yards of offense.
2. Regardless of what you think of going for 2, it's basically been proven on this site from other posters that the "chart" says it's the right call (or at least debatable depending on how you evaluate other factors). I wouldn't have gone for two, but after considering all the facts there really isn't an argument that it was a truly egregious decision akin to the Northwestern call.
3. How many of those "26 fourth and fifth year players" dropped passes and fumbled? One of them? CJ Prosise, is a junior right? Sanders had 2, Prosise had 1, Brown had 1, Kizer had 1, and I forget the last. Almost none of the big time drops were from seniors/5th year seniors. So this entire point is on its surface beyond fucking stupid.
4. OK.
5. OK. None of those players are a starting QB, and ND is way past "6"... but his point is fine, everyone has their problems.
6. Already explained why Fortuna is being a dumb cunt on this point.
7. WHO THE HELL EVER SAID WE HAD A TITLE DESTINY!?!?!
 
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RDU Irish

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Thanks for sharing the trolling article. Half the world hates ND, this tripe will always get the clicks. 4 turnovers can happen to any team at any time. Do it against a quality opponent and you will lose at an incredibly high percentage. They were largely unforced errors and rarely at midfield. You can count the muffed punt early as a T/O as well that was a 40 yard play right there giving them less than half a field to cover.

These things happen. Just like I think Jacksonville State beat Auburn on the field - just not on the scoreboard, I think we beat Clemson on the field. That will count for something in the end. Any honest Clemson fan will tell you we were winning in OT if we were able to get there.

Very few people saw us going undefeated this year anyway so I am perplexed by the piling on after this goofy game that most had us losing under normal conditions. Shit most were rationalizing ways to get to the playoffs at 10-2 with losses to Clemson and USC. I don't really get how this is a horrible underperformance relative to your expectations?
 

RDU Irish

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You think we should have gone for two and that we should have come out flat in the first half? Interesting...

You think we should never play poorly and every single decision by coaches should be pure gold? Interesting....
 

IrishLion

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Fortuna tries to play nice, but he seizes every opportunity he can to go over-the-top critical and also to troll on Twitter.

He spends more time giving ND fans sh*t Twitter than he does actually writing about ND.

Having said all that, I still don't think he's too terrible. I just think he has trouble hiding his disdain for the fan base, and it shows at times.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Anybody else wake up this morning and realize the outcome of the game, good or bad, didn't effect their lives in the grand scheme of things whatsoever? I sure did, and am done whining, partly because the game is over, and partly because the liquor finally wore off.

Win the next two games, and I'll be doing backflips. 6-1 with a win over SC, and a top ten ranking despite countless injuries is nothing to sneeze at.

Kelly is far from perfect, and makes head scratching decisions at times, but I must admit he has balls, and finds a way to put his team into a position to win despite numerous errors. I am firmly a "ride or die" groupie at this point. He has galvanized this team.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Hard to win 8 vs 5
I've been saying this before the game started.

How can an oline stop a loaded box?

The QB needs to force the box to breakdown. Why Kelly spent so much wasted effort to start the game running, idk. But we should have been throwing from the start.
If we would have established the passing game earlier on this game would have been much different.
 

pkt77242

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I disagree with almost all of that.
1. Clemson started fast and executed plays. That's what you'd freaking expect with 16 days to watch film, key on tendencies, and script your first 10 or so plays like most teams do. They were aided by two special teams miscues on those drives, and the defense surrendered under 300 yards of offense.
2. Regardless of what you think of going for 2, it's basically been proven on this site from other posters that the "chart" says it's the right call (or at least debatable depending on how you evaluate other factors). I wouldn't have gone for two, but after considering all the facts there really isn't an argument that it was a truly egregious decision akin to the Northwestern call.
3. How many of those "26 fourth and fifth year players" dropped passes and fumbled? One of them? CJ Prosise, is a junior right? Sanders had 2, Prosise had 1, Brown had 1, Kizer had 1, and I forget the last. Almost none of the big time drops were from seniors/5th year seniors. So this entire point is on its surface beyond fucking stupid.
4. OK.
5. OK. None of those players are a starting QB, and ND is way past "6"... but his point is fine, everyone has their problems.
6. Already explained why Fortuna is being a dumb cunt on this point.
7. WHO THE HELL EVER SAID WE HAD A TITLE DESTINY!?!?!
2. Prosise is RS JR and Brown is a Senior.
 

gkIrish

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You think we should never play poorly and every single decision by coaches should be pure gold? Interesting....

And you think we never play poorly and every decision is pure gold.

I will always give credit when it's due. For example, the wheel route play to CJ was brilliant. Great idea, great execution. Excellent play.

Defense was brilliant in the second half. Really tightened everything up and made key stops.

There were lots of good decisions and lots of good coaching in this game. Unfortunately, there was still some bad coaching that shouldn't be there in Year 5 of a Notre Dame coach's tenure.
 

Irish Insanity

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Thanks for sharing the trolling article. Half the world hates ND, this tripe will always get the clicks. 4 turnovers can happen to any team at any time. Do it against a quality opponent and you will lose at an incredibly high percentage. They were largely unforced errors and rarely at midfield. You can count the muffed punt early as a T/O as well that was a 40 yard play right there giving them less than half a field to cover.
The 4 TO'S excuse is complete bullshit. Weren't they all in the second half. While we were trying to make a comback. Long after we were down 14. I mean 4 TOs will kill any team, but we were dead long before we turned it over.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Brian Kelly Revisited

I've been saying this before the game started.

How can an oline stop a loaded box?

The QB needs to force the box to breakdown. Why Kelly spent so much wasted effort to start the game running, idk. But we should have been throwing from the start.
If we would have established the passing game earlier on this game would have been much different.


I feel like BK did exactly what most people here have complained about him NOT doing numerous times in the past: commit to the run, and don't panic and start an air raid by the second possession. It was almost like he reads the Gameday posts here and took notes. He trusted his o-line to make the plays they have been lauded for making, and they didn't reciprocate. Loaded box or not, they were getting worked all night.
 

gkIrish

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I disagree with almost all of that.
1. Clemson started fast and executed plays. That's what you'd freaking expect with 16 days to watch film, key on tendencies, and script your first 10 or so plays like most teams do. They were aided by two special teams miscues on those drives, and the defense surrendered under 300 yards of offense.
2. Regardless of what you think of going for 2, it's basically been proven on this site from other posters that the "chart" says it's the right call (or at least debatable depending on how you evaluate other factors). I wouldn't have gone for two, but after considering all the facts there really isn't an argument that it was a truly egregious decision akin to the Northwestern call.
3. How many of those "26 fourth and fifth year players" dropped passes and fumbled? One of them? CJ Prosise, is a junior right? Sanders had 2, Prosise had 1, Brown had 1, Kizer had 1, and I forget the last. Almost none of the big time drops were from seniors/5th year seniors. So this entire point is on its surface beyond fucking stupid.
4. OK.
5. OK. None of those players are a starting QB, and ND is way past "6"... but his point is fine, everyone has their problems.
6. Already explained why Fortuna is being a dumb cunt on this point.
7. WHO THE HELL EVER SAID WE HAD A TITLE DESTINY!?!?!

3. Fuller also dropped one IIRC.

7. The team. Numerous posters on this site (I mean look at Judghed's posts this morning). Experts who predicted us to make the playoffs. etc. etc.

And if we didn't have a title shot this year, that's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. YOU SHOULD BE IN THE TITLE CONVERSATION IN YEAR 5
 

IrishSteelhead

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Brian Kelly Revisited

3. Fuller also dropped one IIRC.



7. The team. Numerous posters on this site (I mean look at Judghed's posts this morning). Experts who predicted us to make the playoffs. etc. etc.



And if we didn't have a title shot this year, that's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. YOU SHOULD BE IN THE TITLE CONVERSATION IN YEAR 5


How about year 6, because that's where we are. This year is a cataclysmic failure with anything less than double digit wins, and a top 15 class IMO.
 

pkt77242

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3. Fuller also dropped one IIRC.

7. The team. Numerous posters on this site (I mean look at Judghed's posts this morning). Experts who predicted us to make the playoffs. etc. etc.

And if we didn't have a title shot this year, that's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. YOU SHOULD BE IN THE TITLE CONVERSATION IN YEAR 5

Fuller is in his 3rd year, not 4th or 5th.

ETA: Also we have 1 loss, I think a 10-2 season is still very likely. Were you really expecting better than that this year? What was your preseason prediction?
 
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RDU Irish

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End of the day, drops and fumbles cost us more than any coaching decision. The drops and fumbles were we evenly spread across the team so I am not seeing anyone as a complete scapegoat. Sometimes you have to accept that crap happens, how you respond to that crap says a lot more about you than anything. We bounced back and gave ourselves a solid shot at winning.

Holtz got run out of town for the type of talk you are making. Nobody is perfect but damn if Kelly isn't the closest thing we have had to the real deal in 20 years. He is going to have to do a hell of a lot worse than this to lose my confidence.
 

Ndaccountant

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You think we should have gone for two and that we should have come out flat in the first half? Interesting...

I personally would have gone for two for one big reason.....if I fail, I have the chance to make up for it with the rest of the game. At that point in the game, ND had to assume at best, 3 more possessions (maybe only 2) and have not exactly been moving up and down the field. If I know I need 2 TD's to win it in my final 3 drives, I would call the game differently. Basically, it's whether or not I need to play for a FG in conditions that were dicey for Yoon. Certainly impacts your decision making going forward in the game.
 

Ndaccountant

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3. Fuller also dropped one IIRC.

7. The team. Numerous posters on this site (I mean look at Judghed's posts this morning). Experts who predicted us to make the playoffs. etc. etc.

And if we didn't have a title shot this year, that's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. YOU SHOULD BE IN THE TITLE CONVERSATION IN YEAR 5

Do you think we win that game with MZ at QB? I do.

There are few schools that can replace their starter in week one and replace with a guy that had all of a few snaps worth of game experience and still expect to be in the top four at the end of the year. We all knew that when MZ went down.

At the start of the year I said it was a 10 win regular season or bust and I still think that.
 
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