Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[IrishJayhawk]

It looked like he might have got hurt on that one play. He stayed down for a couple of seconds before getting up gingerly.

I didn't look for him afterwards, but he was absolutely banged up on that play.

 

[koonja]

Pathetic.

 

[BillyIrish]

Kelly: kizer had option at LoS. Read zone and called run. Agreed with read."

Looked like boulware blew up prosise's lead block and the play. my initial reaction was incorrect.

 

[yankeeND]

Pathetic.

What's pathetic? Please tell me it's anyone complaining about Kelly or the loss.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Kelly: kizer had option at LoS. Read zone and called run. Agreed with read."

Looked like boulware blew up prosise's lead block and the play. my initial reaction was incorrect.

Interesting. I'm sure there's some reason that it's still Kelly's fault. And, if not, VanGorder.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I disagree. The call should be a run/pass option. Not a straight run.

It was an option call that Deshone made.

 

[pkt77242]

It was an option call that Deshone made.

I wasn't very specific. It shouldn't have been a call at the LOS. It should have been a roll-out with a pass if someone is open. run if they aren't option. That is what I mean by a pass/run option. Not a Kizer makes the decision before the play (no offense to Kizer who played a good game, but he shouldn't be forced to make that decision before the play develops).

 

[IrishLax]

When I was watching it live I said "they better not run the ball." I was campaigning for them to spread it out 5-wide and let Kizer survey... if nothing open has the ability to scramble.

When the ball was snapped, I thought for sure it was going to work. Hole closed down in a hurry because Weishar can't block (and the OL in general didn't do a fantastic job either).

 

[yankeeND]

When I was watching it live I said "they better not run the ball." I was campaigning for them to spread it out 5-wide and let Kizer survey... if nothing open has the ability to scramble.

When the ball was snapped, I thought for sure it was going to work. Hole closed down in a hurry because Weishar can't block (and the OL in general didn't do a fantastic job either).

It's crazy, the difference of that play, or probably the game is Luatua's health. It's too bad.

 

[alohagoirish]

Kizer in the shot gun and you have to throw there

we couldn't run all day and at the end guys were wide open all over the place...

Kizer should have not been forced to make the call there , Kelly needs to call his best pass play out of the shotgun

I never saw an ND QB have so much freakin time to throw ==too bad we waited till so late to capitalize on that.....

320 yards passing
60 yards scrambling from a passing play that breaks down

380 yards from called passes

33 attempts and 50 yards from our run plays , its not rocket science they could not stop our passing unless we dropped em or fumbled them, last play absolutely needed to be pass---or better yet it could have been a simple extra point if we hadn't gone for 2 earlier. Frustrating game

 

[GoIrish41]

My biggest criticism of the night on the coaching front was not taking a shot downfield to Fuller when Alexander was out of the game. Would have been nice to get him going a little. Dropped balls and fumbles were not on BK.

 

[kmoose]

My biggest criticism of the night on the coaching front was not taking a shot downfield to Fuller when Alexander was out of the game.

I wondered about that, as well. But the TV crew did not show us any of the coverage(s) that Clemson used while Alexander was out. Maybe they triple-teamed Fuller the whole time?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I like how we have come full circle and now it's "pass the damn ball!" Haha

 

[GoIrish41]

I like how we have come full circle and now it's "pass the damn ball!" Haha

Not like we were doing anything on the ground against their run blitzes. Go with what works and what they are giving you. I expect more teams to sell out on the run against us until we show we are not slaves to a game plan. I know by the second series I had completely changed my tune about running the ball.

 

[kmoose]

Kelly: kizer had option at LoS. Read zone and called run. Agreed with read."

Looked like boulware blew up prosise's lead block and the play. my initial reaction was incorrect.

Actually, it looks to me like #94, DT Carlos Watkins, took both Nick Martin and Steve Elmer, and pushed them right down the line and into Kizer, blowing the play up.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4lAUyLqMzlw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishinSyria]

It looked like he might have got hurt on that one play. He stayed down for a couple of seconds before getting up gingerly.

Maybe, but the problem is do you really want to trust him with that block in the first place?

 

[kmoose]

Maybe, but the problem is do you really want to trust him with that block in the first place?

Weishar made a decent block. The guy set the edge, but Kizer was able to cut up. If our double-team on the DT hadn't gotten manhandled, then this is a good conversion, I think.

 

[Cogs]

The offense moves the ball on anyone... defense takes 3 quarters to get going every game. I think Kelly has done a good job so far this year - especially considering the injuries

 

[kmoose]

The offense moves the ball on anyone... defense takes 3 quarters to get going every game. I think Kelly has done a good job so far this year - especially considering the injuries

How many TDs has ND given up in the first quarter of games this year?

 

[GoldenDome]

I still don't understand going for the two point conversion so early when we had to score another touchdown anyways. It makes no sense to me.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I still don't understand going for the two point conversion so early when we had to score another touchdown anyways. It makes no sense to me.

It's really not that hard. We were down 12. Score 2, and we're down 10. TD+FG. That way, if you stall out on your next drive at the 30 or so, you don't feel pressure to go for the TD.

That being said, now that I type it out, I think maybe 1 is the right call there. But it's not like it's a crazy call or anything. Certainly, THAT is not what cost us the game.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Couple things.


1. Brian Kelly did get outcoached in some facets. He was definitely a little too conservative the first half, but at the sametime, you don't want Kizer throwing the ball all over place to start the game when he is high on emotion. You have a good Oline, so let them try to get down and dirty. I understand the reasoning. Where BK got outcoached was the Clemson defense knew some of the plays/schemes/concepts/routes ND was going to run and you could tell from inside the stadium, bc the safeties would immediately take off to where the ball was designed to go.

Also, Clemson has two extremely athletic, fast and big safeties that cover a lot of ground and have big wingspans. Shorter windows with the speed of Clemson's defense, plus the weather and a QB, who is really just trying to figure out the college game.

2. The first two point conversion, I see why BK made the decision and I have no problem with it. In a rain soaked game, where your offense is struggling, get it to a two score game and rely on the defense to stop Clemson as they had all night outside of the first two drives.

You have to remember the score was 21-9 at the time. If it was 24-9 and he went for two, that's a different story.

3. I think ND came out focused on not letting emotion kill them, that they had no emotion when they hit the field. It kind of worked in a negative way. They tried to tone it down to be even keeled, but Clemson was fired up, so the intensity didn't match.

4. Not happy with the loss and plenty to work on for Navy, but there was a lot of good in the sloppy game. And the biggest would be Kizer is an absolute gamer. The moment isn't too big for him and he just needs to continue progressing.

Max Redfield looked like the player he was hyped up to be. He was all over the field and was there to lay the wood. They just need that kind of effort from him on a weekly basis.

He may have fumbled trying to do too much at the end, but Chris Brown has stepped his game up this fall and has come up with big plays at big times. He needs to protect the ball better as it's his 2nd fumble inside the five in the last year, but both times the offense needed a score in the worst of ways. I'll take the kid that tries to make plays and does everything he can any day of the week.

 

[alohagoirish]

Can't underestimate that call, we had the momentum , we were gaining yards , they were sitting on the lead. The team ahead even in the NFL tends to sit on that 11 point lead , which makes a FG by them very likely .

We needed 2 TDs to get that game into overtime and win it, we got the 2 TDs despite a couple of turnovers , but we didn't get the 2 extra points. 24--22 a 2 point game , the initial 2 point call was wrong IMO Ten minutes left, we had the momentum, most coaches would kick the xtra point rather then go for the low % of the 2 point ( around 40%).

You don't see that many 21-9 scores or too many 21-11 scores. Those are both very uncommon, why? Because coaches almost always take 21- 10. The thinking being if they get a FG we tie with two scores, if they get a TD its no help being still 17 points down. 2 points in that situation only helps if you shut them out and then only need a FG and a TD instead of a 2TDs. Its an unusual call with ten minutes left especially.

 

[GoldenDome]

Couple things.


1. Brian Kelly did get outcoached in some facets. He was definitely a little too conservative the first half, but at the sametime, you don't want Kizer throwing the ball all over place to start the game when he is high on emotion. You have a good Oline, so let them try to get down and dirty. I understand the reasoning. Where BK got outcoached was the Clemson defense knew some of the plays/schemes/concepts/routes ND was going to run and you could tell from inside the stadium, bc the safeties would immediately take off to where the ball was designed to go.

Also, Clemson has two extremely athletic, fast and big safeties that cover a lot of ground and have big wingspans. Shorter windows with the speed of Clemson's defense, plus the weather and a QB, who is really just trying to figure out the college game.

2. The first two point conversion, I see why BK made the decision and I have no problem with it. In a rain soaked game, where your offense is struggling, get it to a two score game and rely on the defense to stop Clemson as they had all night outside of the first two drives.

You have to remember the score was 21-9 at the time. If it was 24-9 and he went for two, that's a different story.

3. I think ND came out focused on not letting emotion kill them, that they had no emotion when they hit the field. It kind of worked in a negative way. They tried to tone it down to be even keeled, but Clemson was fired up, so the intensity didn't match.

4. Not happy with the loss and plenty to work on for Navy, but there was a lot of good in the sloppy game. And the biggest would be Kizer is an absolute gamer. The moment isn't too big for him and he just needs to continue progressing.

Max Redfield looked like the player he was hyped up to be. He was all over the field and was there to lay the wood. They just need that kind of effort from him on a weekly basis.

He may have fumbled trying to do too much at the end, but Chris Brown has stepped his game up this fall and has come up with big plays at big times. He needs to protect the ball better as it's his 2nd fumble inside the five in the last year, but both times the offense needed a score in the worst of ways. I'll take the kid that tries to make plays and does everything he can any day of the week.

10 or 11 points is essentially the same thing. But missing the 2pt conversion puts you at a 2 td deficit. It is about taking calculated risk, and that is not calculated. In the end, the team could have used that point and didn't need to go for it, that is precisely the reason most coaches wait til the very last chance to go for the 2 pt conversion.

This is a textbook example of why not to go for the 2 pt conversion too early. In the end, we didn't need to.

 

[ThePiombino]

It's a shame that Kelly is going to take heat for this loss when execution and ball control are the real reason. When we do well, it's like some of you on here are giving out high fives with one hand and have a pitchfork in the other. ONE less fumble, or ONE less drop and this is a W or AT LEAST an OT game after being down 18 points, on the road, primetime game, hostile environment. I'd say Kelly and staff did their part. Sure, there were some "questionable" calls, but he and his staff did their part. The kids just didn't execute until too late.

 

[wizards8507]

Weishar made a decent block. The guy set the edge, but Kizer was able to cut up. If our double-team on the DT hadn't gotten manhandled, then this is a good conversion, I think.

But our run blocking was routinely getting manhandled the whole game.

 

[kmoose]

I still don't understand going for the two point conversion so early when we had to score another touchdown anyways. It makes no sense to me.

How many possessions do you think you are going to get in the 4thQ? At the time of the decision, the coaches had to be thinking that they were going to get two, MAYBE three more possessions. Would it be better to wait until the clock is at 00:00, to go for 2?

 

[IrishLax]

Actually, it looks to me like #94, DT Carlos Watkins, took both Nick Martin and Steve Elmer, and pushed them right down the line and into Kizer, blowing the play up.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4lAUyLqMzlw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah, when I watch the play I see the OL get mauled and Weishar not hold his edge block. I think Prosise does good enough as the lead blocker coming through the hole, but there is a giant gaping hole that closes in a hurry as Kizer passes the line of scrimmage. There ends up being 3 guys for 2 blockers as Kizer comes through the line, so the play design isn't exactly great, but if they got a seal on #94 there's a very good chance Kizer scores... or if Weishar dominates his guy, Kizer doesn't necessarily get sucked up inside quite as hard. Bottom line is that the hole was there and then closed because we didn't block it well. If you have two guys on a DT he should be sealed and driven backwards NOT able to string out the play... it's bad execution by both those guys, that dude should've been driven 3 yards backwards and put on his ass.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Originally Posted by gkIrish
Do you aspire to be on the same level as Arkansas, Missouri, and Boise St.? And sure, Auburn struggled yesterday, but they don't struggle like that very often. How often do the Buckeyes, Alabama, Oregon, and the Florida Sts of the world struggle against highly inferior talent? Hardly ever.

Arizona St. playing like crap or Arkansas losing to Toledo means absolutely nothing to Notre Dame. They aren't our peers.

Worth noting because it's relevant to the thread. Truly not intending it to be a jab or anything of the sort. But #1 Ohio State, #2 Michigan State, and #11 Florida State all struggled against teams with highly inferior talent.

 

[Grahambo]

How many possessions do you think you are going to get in the 4thQ? At the time of the decision, the coaches had to be thinking that they were going to get two, MAYBE three more possessions. Would it be better to wait until the clock is at 00:00, to go for 2?

You're going to be defending the 2pt conversion for the rest of your life.