'14 NY OT/SDE Jay Hayes (Notre Dame Signee)

[gkIrish]

I just don't see it. BK did what he had to do and in an appropriate manner, so did ESPN. There's nothing to see here IMO.

I don't think public discipline of a player who already resents his coaches helps the situation at all. It likely just makes him resent the coaches even more.

Not condoning what Jay Hayes did. I just don't think this is the way to go about punishing him.

 

[koonja]

I don't think public discipline of a player who already resents his coaches helps the situation at all. It likely just makes him resent the coaches even more.

Not condoning what Jay Hayes did. I just don't think this is the way to go about punishing him.

What's the alternative? Set a precedent where players can bash the coaches decisions without repercussion?

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think public discipline of a player who already resents his coaches helps the situation at all. It likely just makes him resent the coaches even more.

Not condoning what Jay Hayes did. I just don't think this is the way to go about punishing him.

What would have been your course of action?

Not debating, just generally curious.

(Disclaimer: I'm with Koon and others on this one, in that if feels like "nothing to see here." Jay's been a troll on Twitter before. Now he's using the platform to put dirty laundry out there? Punish him and move on. BK would just look shady if he didn't answer any questions about Jay not being with the team this weekend.)

 

[T Town Tommy]

I don't think public discipline of a player who already resents his coaches helps the situation at all. It likely just makes him resent the coaches even more.

Not condoning what Jay Hayes did. I just don't think this is the way to go about punishing him.

Always best to take care of it in house IMO. Kid had a moment... hopefully he learns and moves on from it.

 

[gkIrish]

What would have been your course of action?

Not debating, just generally curious.

(Disclaimer: I'm with Koon and others on this one, in that if feels like "nothing to see here." Jay's been a troll on Twitter before. Now he's using the platform to put dirty laundry out there? Punish him and move on. BK would just look shady if he didn't answer any questions about Jay not being with the team this weekend.)

What's the alternative? Set a precedent where players can bash the coaches decisions without repercussion?

Have a closed door conversation and probably ban Twitter use during the season or something. The national media certainly isn't going to run a "Jay Hayes hasn't been active on Twitter in 3 weeks" story.

BK criticizes Jay for not knocking on his door and having a conversation about it but then he goes out and speaks to the media about the situation in detail. Doesn't seem like BK is setting a good example. Jay Hayes clearly acted immaturely but the answer isn't public reprimand IMO.

 

[koonja]

Have a closed door conversation and probably ban Twitter use during the season or something. The national media certainly isn't going to run a "Jay Hayes hasn't been active on Twitter in 3 weeks" story.

BK criticizes Jay for not knocking on his door and having a conversation about it but then he goes out and speaks to the media about the situation in detail. Doesn't seem like BK is setting a good example. Jay Hayes clearly acted immaturely but the answer isn't public reprimand IMO.

I guess I assumed BK did handle this behind closed doors, had his press conference, and was asked about it. I don't think BK sought out the media to discuss this.

And if your point is instead of BK saying 'we talked about it and he won't be staying with the team this week as punishment', he should have said 'Jay will be dealt with and we won't discuss that here', I feel like the media/fan's imagination of the real punishment would be worse (OMG, ND punished someone for a tweet - wonder if he's out for the year?!) than what actually happened (not staying in the hotel one night).

 

[Luckylucci]

I guess I assumed BK did handle this behind closed doors, had his press conference, and was asked about it. I don't think BK sought out the media to discuss this.

And if your point is instead of BK saying 'we talked about it and he won't be staying with the team this week as punishment', he should have said 'Jay will be dealt with and we won't discuss that here', I feel like the media/fan's imagination of the real punishment would be worse (OMG, ND punished someone for a tweet - wonder if he's out for the year?!) than what actually happened (not staying in the hotel one night).

My understanding from what BK said was that they indeed met with Jay on this issue before talking about it publicly. He said that they told him to come knock on his door before doing that. It would imply they spoke with Jay about this prior to the press conference.

 

[gkIrish]

I guess I assumed BK did handle this behind closed doors, had his press conference, and was asked about it. I don't think BK sought out the media to discuss this.

And if your point is instead of BK saying 'we talked about it and he won't be staying with the team this week as punishment', he should have said 'Jay will be dealt with and we won't discuss that here', I feel like the media/fan's imagination of the real punishment would be worse (OMG, ND punished someone for a tweet - wonder if he's out for the year?!) than what actually happened (not staying in the hotel one night).

"Violation of team rules."

That always implies it's a relatively minor issue that doesn't have any criminal or university implications. It implies that the punishment is temporary.

Name me one player (other than a superstar) from any school other than ND that you can recall getting suspended for violation of team rules. I can't do it without using Google...

Here's my point said a bit differently. No one outside of the fan base knew who Jay Hayes was before today. Now everyone knows who he is and their entire opinion of him is based on this one incident. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[koonja]

My understanding from what BK said was that they indeed met with Jay on this issue before talking about it publicly. He said that they told him to come knock on his door before doing that. It would imply they spoke with Jay about this prior to the press conference.

That's not the clarification I'm going for. I'm sure Jay heard about the punishment before it was said at the press conference.

My clarification is, there's no reason to think BK sought out the media to let them know about this. I'm assuming it was asked at his press conference, and I bet there's proof of that. Point is, IDK how this could have been handled better.

 

[yankeeND]

There are a lot of fair points here, and I get where gk is coming from. Hayes has to be smarter here and hopefully learn from this though imo. If he doesn't want backlash from doing things he shouldn't, then he should do the things that he should and he wouldn't have to worry about it. I don't by any means think that he is a bad kid at all, but again, he just has to remember that there are consequences for his actions. Live and learn because he will probably be starting next year if he focuses on that instead of "poor me."

I just saw what gk said, "violation of team rules," I very much agree with that, but everybody knows already so it wouldn't really matter. Still, this is a good opportunity to learn and move on.

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, so they handled it in-house, and BK was up front when asked about it after the media heard some rumblings.

If BK deflects and says "we're handling it how we see fit, that's all I'll say," then it's still a big story because everyone starts wondering/writing about what that might mean.

It's ND; there's going to be speculation either way.

I applaud BK for being up front about the issue. And who knows, maybe seeing it put out in public will make Jay realize how childish Twitter-pouting is.

 

[gkIrish]

That's not the clarification I'm going for. I'm sure Jay heard about the punishment before it was said at the press conference.

My clarification is, there's no reason to think BK sought out the media to let them know about this. I'm assuming it was asked at his press conference, and I bet there's proof of that. Point is, IDK how this could have been handled better.

I never said BK purposely sought out the media. He didn't. I just think he carelessly revealed too much information.

Jay Hayes is probably 10 times angrier at the staff than he was when he made those tweets. Was that the goal of the punishment? I wouldn't think so.

 

[koonja]

I never said BK purposely sought out the media. He didn't. I just think he carelessly revealed too much information.

What was TMI? The punishment? Because IMO, it's on the lighter side considering we're dealing with ND and its heavy hand.

The alternative is 'Jay Hayes punished by team, no details of the punishment known', and the media goes wild speculating at how hard ND was on a kid this time.

I seriously doubt that after talking to BK, Jay Hayes is even angrier. I have no proof of this, but neither do you, and I think it's more common for player/coach to come to an understanding after he gets the attention he was looking for, especially since the punishment wasn't over bearing.

IDK how BK could have handled this any better, and the punishment is almost nothing. He's not even missing a game...

 

[T Town Tommy]

Yeah, so they handled it in-house, and BK was up front when asked about it after the media heard some rumblings.

If BK deflects and says "we're handling it how we see fit, that's all I'll say," then it's still a big story because everyone starts wondering/writing about what that might mean.

It's ND; there's going to be speculation either way.

I applaud BK for being up front about the issue. And who knows, maybe seeing it put out in public will make Jay realize how childish Twitter-pouting is.

But what happens the next time Kelly handles a situation differently? The best thing is to simply say it's a team matter and will be handled in house. Who cares what others may think. That serves a couple of purposes. It lets the kid know that the coach still has his back even though he did something minor. And, it allows the coach to handle slightly larger issues without having to feel the need to comment to the press about it.

 

[ACamp1900]

Talk to the kid, calm him down, make him see the path.... can't lose quality front seven help that is already on campus.

 

[yankeeND]

But what happens the next time Kelly handles a situation differently? The best thing is to simply say it's a team matter and will be handled in house. Who cares what others may think. That serves a couple of purposes. It lets the kid know that the coach still has his back even though he did something minor. And, it allows the coach to handle slightly larger issues without having to feel the need to comment to the press about it.

Well, I guess I'm all in with gk and T Town on this now. Your post just made so much sense to me right now lol. Spell it out for him, he'll get it. Oh and that last line refers to me not lion.

 

[gkIrish]

What was TMI? The punishment? Because IMO, it's on the lighter side considering we're dealing with ND and its heavy hand.

The alternative is 'Jay Hayes punished by team, no details of the punishment known', and the media goes wild speculating at how hard ND was on a kid this time.

I seriously doubt that after talking to BK, Jay Hayes is even angrier. I have no proof of this, but neither do you, and I think it's more common for player/coach to come to an understanding after he gets the attention he was looking for, and the punishment wasn't over bearing,

He was looking for attention. He got it. IDK how BK could have handled this any better, and the punishment is almost nothing. He's not even missing a game...

"You have to think before you hit send, and what you have to do is knock on my door instead of hitting the send button."

"If he has a job at Google and talks about his boss that way, he probably is not going to have a job the next day.

BK basically scolded him in public like my parents used to do to try and embarrass me if I misbehaved. Which worked then because I was 10 years old.

So BK is the boss and Jay Hayes is an employee. Doesn't sound like the relationship a coach should have with his players.

 

[gkIrish]

But what happens the next time Kelly handles a situation differently? The best thing is to simply say it's a team matter and will be handled in house. Who cares what others may think. That serves a couple of purposes. It lets the kid know that the coach still has his back even though he did something minor. And, it allows the coach to handle slightly larger issues without having to feel the need to comment to the press about it.

Yeah this is a lot more coherent than my ramblings. Well said.

 

[koonja]

BK basically scolded him in public like my parents used to do to try and embarrass me if I misbehaved. Which worked then because I was 10 years old.

So BK is the boss and Jay Hayes is an employee. Doesn't sound like the relationship a coach should have with his players.

But BK didn't punish him in the employee-boss way his analogy did (if he did, Hayes 'wouldn't be at ND anymore'), so I don't see how you're getting that from what BK said. BK has that employee-boss power, but he didn't act on it (using his google comparison).

Agree to disagree.

 

[ThePiombino]

Nothing makes the agenda against BK more painfully clear than debating something as "nothing to see here" as this...

 

[ndfi78]

Y'all are just looking for something to bitch about

 

[gkIrish]

Nothing makes the agenda against BK more painfully clear than debating something as "nothing to see here" as this...

Is it "nothing to see here" or something worth commenting to the media about publicly. Can't be both.

If I have an agenda so does every single person who blindly defends every single thing BK does. I praise him when he does something good (moving CJ Prosise to RB, really good!)and question him when he does something not so good (lose to Northwestern). Some of you just praise praise praise like sheep.

 

[greyhammer90]

I have no idea what that means.

Idk I'm guessing BK intended for Jay to "wake up" and be more mature. But if I was the subject of a national headline I would feel pretty ticked off at my coach because while what I did was wrong, I didn't deserve to have a permanent stain on my record.

Now this will come up as a red flag in NFL interviews, hell even job interviews. Don't think he deserved that because of some immaturity.

You'd be ticked off at the coach publicly commenting on a situation you made public?

I thought it was a pretty good handling of the situation. Kid needs to learn that there are consequences to making an ass of yourself in public... And those consequences are almost always public.

 

[ThePiombino]

Is it "nothing to see here" or something worth commenting to the media about publicly. Can't be both.

If I have an agenda so does every single person who blindly defends every single thing BK does. I praise him when he does something good (moving CJ Prosise to RB, really good!)and question him when he does something not so good (lose to Northwestern). Some of you just praise praise praise like sheep.

BK commenting on it to the media is the "nothing to see here". If Hayes doesn't want shit aired out in public, maybe he should consider shutting down his Twitter account. As for negative impact, please. What recruit isn't gonna come here because some reserve didn't get to play one game because of disciplinary reasons? Stop it.

 

[koonja]

Is it "nothing to see here" or something worth commenting to the media about publicly. Can't be both.

If I have an agenda so does every single person who blindly defends every single thing BK does. I praise him when he does something good (moving CJ Prosise to RB, really good!)and question him when he does something not so good (lose to Northwestern). Some of you just praise praise praise like sheep.

I doubt that's true. You're making it sound like BK wanted to give the info to the media. I bet any amount of vbucks there's a transcript somewhere that shows BK was ASKED specifically about this, and responded.

So you can have beef with BK saying "he's going to miss a night in the hotel, won't miss anytime otherwise" rather than "he'll be dealt with behind closed doors" - which IMO is worse considering the media speculations would be FAR worse than a night not in a hotel-, but the fact that this was made aware to the media is not because BK made a point of it, I'll bet my whole loot on that. Transcript anyone?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I doubt that's true. You're making it sound like BK wanted to give the info to the media. I bet any amount of vbucks there's a transcript somewhere that shows BK was ASKED specifically about this, and responded.

So you can have beef with BK saying "he's going to miss a night in the hotel, won't miss anytime otherwise" rather than "he'll be dealt with behind closed doors" - which IMO is worse considering the media speculations would be FAR worse than a night not in a hotel-, but the fact that this was made aware to the media is not because BK made a point of it, I'll bet my whole loot on that. Transcript anyone?

He can always decline to answer like he has in other instances. Though come to think of it, ND tends to be pretty open about things where FERPA isn't an issue (e.g. Tuitt's alarm clock... which I don't believe for a second).

I don't see what "media speculation" there would be about punishment for a guy who hasn't even played this year.

BK had a reason to be open about this one. There are a lot of possibilities as to his motivations (or goals in doing so) but he has made a deliberate decision to treat this one publicly.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Feel free to put me on your ignore list. My opinion clearly holds no value to you so there's no reason to read my posts.

Whoa! I wasn't going for that at all gkIrish, my apologies if you think my posts have been more than good-natured ribbing. We all get worked up about a sporting event that involves 18-21 year olds and involves big dollars. In the end, none of this really affects us either way. ND will eventually part ways with Kelly, on good terms or bad, and it'll continue on it's trek.

Seriously, I never meant to imply I don't appreciate the posts or differences of opinion. I would hate talking to bunch of me, I like variety.

Let's say you're a blogger at ESPN. Your job is to cover Notre Dame football. The head coach of Notre Dame football benches a player for comments made on social media. Are you suggesting that the appropriate course of action is to not type that up and submit it to your editor?

I didn't intend to say that's how i feel, just wondering why the blame would be placed on Kelly. I think this is a blameless situation, one in which blame needn't be assigned (unless you give it to Jay, who broke team rules). It happened and it's of minor consequence.

I don't think public discipline of a player who already resents his coaches helps the situation at all. It likely just makes him resent the coaches even more.

Not condoning what Jay Hayes did. I just don't think this is the way to go about punishing him.

I agree with this. I think this is one likely outcome. The other is that he gets his head right, buys in and lives happily ever after with an ND degree and a great career, either collegiately or professionally. There is no good from transferring, stick it out and show out.

But what happens the next time Kelly handles a situation differently? The best thing is to simply say it's a team matter and will be handled in house. Who cares what others may think. That serves a couple of purposes. It lets the kid know that the coach still has his back even though he did something minor. And, it allows the coach to handle slightly larger issues without having to feel the need to comment to the press about it.

Maybe this is Kelly's escalation policy. He speaks with a young man and if he refuses to listen, Kelly allows the heat to turn up a little and see if the young man responds. Perhaps he's been burned enough to know that repeat offenders rarely make it through ND? Maybe he has a read we couldn't possibly make, given that he is the head coach of Notre Dame.

Or maybe he just extemporaneously walked up to the podium and disparaged one of his players.

Kelly may be some things, but he is rarely an impromptu operator.

 

[koonja]

I think you guys are wayyy over playing the impact of BK's response to the question. Literally nobody will care about this outside of us and those involved.

And I will disagree to the death that given ND's harsh punishments in the past, that IFFFFFFF anyone outside of ND nation does care about this, 'missing 1 night in a hotel and no games missed' is a lot better in their eyes than what they'd conjure up given our harsh, recent past.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I doubt that's true. You're making it sound like BK wanted to give the info to the media. I bet any amount of vbucks there's a transcript somewhere that shows BK was ASKED specifically about this, and responded.

So you can have beef with BK saying "he's going to miss a night in the hotel, won't miss anytime otherwise" rather than "he'll be dealt with behind closed doors" - which IMO is worse considering the media speculations would be FAR worse than a night not in a hotel-, but the fact that this was made aware to the media is not because BK made a point of it, I'll bet my whole loot on that. Transcript anyone?

A simple statement from BK stating that the issue has been addressed would have sufficed. By commenting on this, BK put himself in a position that he may have to comment on something more serious or run the risk of alienating Hayes. Worse, if you think the media would have ran with him just saying it's being handled in house, wait till he actually uses that line when dealing with another player in the future. Don't you think the media will assume that the next player did something much worse? Probably so. Hence the need to never put out player punishment or comment to the media... other than when a player is suspended for "violation of team rules" - and even then the offense should not be made public.

As much as we as fans want to know what happens and what the punishment is... we really don't have the right to know. It generally comes out shortly after anyway as these kids do go to college and students seem to always know the back story to any player issues.

 

[koonja]

A simple statement from BK stating that the issue has been addressed would have sufficed. By commenting on this, BK put himself in a position that he may have to comment on something more serious or run the risk of alienating Hayes. Worse, if you think the media would have ran with him just saying it's being handled in house, wait till he actually uses that line when dealing with another player in the future. Don't you think the media will assume that the next player did something much worse? Probably so. Hence the need to never put out player punishment or comment to the media... other than when a player is suspended for "violation of team rules" - and even then the offense should not be made public.

As much as we as fans want to know what happens and what the punishment is... we really don't have the right to know. It generally comes out shortly after anyway as these kids do go to college and students seem to always know the back story to any player issues.

And then Hayes continues to naturally sit the pine the rest of the year, and CFB nation speculates that the 'behind the scenes punishment' was benching him for the entire year over a stupid tweet. Keep in mind, CFB nation won't care that Hayes was already not playing.

No thank you 100 times over.