[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[Rhode Irish]

^exactly, 100%

 

[IrishLax]

I still don't get the conclusions in the OTL report if you really think about it. There was supposed rampant and blatant cheating, but no teams ever caught them in the act? It's not like there's some sort of unwritten rule about not snitching on other teams. The Jets had no issue calling the NFL about Spygate...even though they were caught doing it the year before. The Colts had no problem whining about air in a football.

Between the OTL and the SI report, are we supposed to believe that teams search for bugs in the locker room, leave fake play sheets, run fake plays in practice...yet the only thing the Pats have been caught for is Spygate and maybe Deflategate? No one thought to leave a camera in the locker room to see if a Pats staffer steals a play sheet? But there was a sting operation for deflated footballs? The Patriots are breaking into visiting team hotels, but the league just spent $5 million botching an investigation into PSI? It doesn't really add up, but oh well. Every story in the SI piece is about teams trying to catch the Pats and failing to do so.

You mean like when multiple teams complained about headsets cutting out and being jammed, and then they brought someone up there and they witnessed? Or did you mean like when they did get caught in the act and the evidence was destroyed?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I'm sure nobody has ever made that observation about the "cult" of ND fans.

Those people are just haters!!!!!!!! HATERS!!!!!!!!

 

[Rhode Irish]

You mean like when multiple teams complained about headsets cutting out and being jammed, and then they brought someone up there and they witnessed? Or did you mean like when they did get caught in the act and the evidence was destroyed?

Are you aware that virtually every team in the league has accused another team of messing with their headsets (including New England)? It seems like maybe the headsets are just imperfect. The point is that the Patriots were supposedly running this KGB-level espionage program for a decade and all anyone could come up with was a bunch of unproved suspicions and 0.02 PSI?

 

[gkIrish]

You can just call them sore losers but when the Panthers, Steelers, etc. all feel like New England knew every play they were going to run in a big game that's what really convinces me. Guys in the NFL actually have a lot of pride and they wouldn't just say that if they didn't believe it was true.

 

[woolybug25]

I said this before, but it's worth noting again.

If you swapped Notre Dame for the Pats in this scenario, I would be embarrassed by the way Pats fans are arguing. If that day ever comes, I beg of you to just not say anything so you don't embarrass the rest of the rational fanbase.

 

[Rhode Irish]

You can just call them sore losers but when the Panthers, Steelers, etc. all feel like New England knew every play they were going to run in a big game that's what really convinces me. Guys in the NFL actually have a lot of pride and they wouldn't just say that if they didn't believe it was true.

What would convince me is evidence, not a bunch of guys that lost making excuses by availing themselves of the myth that the team that beat them spied on their practices. If you didn't want that to be true you'd see it as the joke that it is.

 

[irishfan]

I said this before, but it's worth noting again.

If you swapped Notre Dame for the Pats in this scenario, I would be embarrassed by the way Pats fans are arguing. If that day ever comes, I beg of you to just not say anything so you don't embarrass the rest of the rational fanbase.

Realistically, if ND got caught in some sort of cheating scandal in 2007 and then USC, Michigan, Stanford, and BC all said they have no proof but they swear we were cheating in our past big wins against them, I would guess most of IE would be defending ND right now.

 

[wizards8507]

Realistically, if ND got caught in some sort of cheating scandal in 2007 and then USC, Michigan, Stanford, and BC all said they have no proof but they swear we were cheating in our past big wins against them, I would guess most of IE would be defending ND right now.

Or if ND was caught paying for a recruit's burrito against NCAA regulations and lost scholarships because of it, while not a single other program was investigated or even considered as a potential violator.

 

[Rhode Irish]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7_NT2LdlIkM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

20 mark)

 

[Rhode Irish]

I said this before, but it's worth noting again.

If you swapped Notre Dame for the Pats in this scenario, I would be embarrassed by the way Pats fans are arguing. If that day ever comes, I beg of you to just not say anything so you don't embarrass the rest of the rational fanbase.

What way is that, exactly?

 

[NDWorld247]

My biggest issue with the OTL report is they never once mentioned that video taping signals was legal, which speaks to Rhode's illustration above.

Instead, we get crap like this:

Belichick, almost five years after being fired by the Browns and fully aware that this was his last best shot as a head coach, placed an innovative system of cheating in the hands of his most trusted friend.

And we're supposed to believe everything written in the OTL report?

Spygate boils down to a video camera being in the wrong location for the Sept 2007 Jets game, a violation the Jets themselves committed during a 2006 game in Foxboro. Cheaters!

Did they film from the wrong location for 40+ games? We don't know that to be true, but assuming it is, coaches knew other teams had access to their signals regardless of where the camera was positioned and several teams failed to change signals throughout the season.

Why isn't anyone talking about the fact the Patriots went 17-0 in their next seventeen games after "Spygate" before a horribly botched non-holding call on the Tyree catch cost them the Super Bowl? It's just easier to label them cheaters and try to tear down the best franchise in professional sports, which is what we saw happen in farce that was Deflategate. It's the world we live in today. Very sad.

 

[palinurus]

The series of issues with the Patriots remind me of the latter years of the Bill Clinton presidency, in this sense:

No matter how outrageous a rumor or charge levied, no matter how much you admired (or not) aspects of the performance or his results -- your trust of, and belief in, his integrity was so minimal, so negligible, that there was nothing -- literally no rumor, story, gossip or allegation, no matter how improbable or outrageous -- that you would dismiss out of hand as being impossible.

 

[Irish#1]

I still don't get the conclusions in the OTL report if you really think about it. There was supposed rampant and blatant cheating, but no teams ever caught them in the act? It's not like there's some sort of unwritten rule about not snitching on other teams. The Jets had no issue calling the NFL about Spygate...even though they were caught doing it the year before. The Colts had no problem whining about air in a football.

Between the OTL and the SI report, are we supposed to believe that teams search for bugs in the locker room, leave fake play sheets, run fake plays in practice...yet the only thing the Pats have been caught for is Spygate and maybe Deflategate? No one thought to leave a camera in the locker room to see if a Pats staffer steals a play sheet? But there was a sting operation for deflated footballs? The Patriots are breaking into visiting team hotels, but the league just spent $5 million botching an investigation into PSI? It doesn't really add up, but oh well. Every story in the SI piece is about teams trying to catch the Pats and failing to do so.

What about the Packers catching a Pats camera guy up in the stadium? Wait, he worked for Kraft Productions doing a documentary. BTW, when did that documentary air?

 

[irishfan]

What about the Packers catching a Pats camera guy up in the stadium? Wait, he worked for Kraft Productions doing a documentary. When did that documentary air?

You're referring to their general scheme behind Spygate...something no Patriots fan is denying. I referenced the supposed 24/7 cheating didn't really add up with what they have been caught doing under Belichick. Spygate and maybe Deflategate.

 

[Irish#1]

My biggest issue with the OTL report is they never once mentioned that video taping signals was legal, which speaks to Rhode's illustration above.

Instead, we get crap like this:



And we're supposed to believe everything written in the OTL report?

Spygate boils down to a video camera being in the wrong location for the Sept 2007 Jets game, a violation the Jets themselves committed during a 2006 game in Foxboro. Cheaters!

Did they film from the wrong location for 40+ games? We don't know that to be true, but assuming it is, coaches knew other teams had access to their signals regardless of where the camera was positioned and several teams failed to change signals throughout the season.

Why isn't anyone talking about the fact the Patriots went 17-0 in their next seventeen games after "Spygate" before a horribly botched non-holding call on the Tyree catch cost them the Super Bowl? It's just easier to label them cheaters and try to tear down the best franchise in professional sports, which is what we saw happen in farce that was Deflategate. It's the world we live in today. Very sad.

Of course it wasn't simply a great catch. It was refereegate where the NFL told the refs to make sure the Giants win as a payback for Spygate.

 

[Irish#1]

You're referring to their general scheme behind Spygate...something no Patriots fan is denying. I referenced the supposed 24/7 cheating didn't really add up with what they have been caught doing under Belichick. Spygate and maybe Deflategate.

The common denominator here is the Pats. Why do these type of stories keep popping up about the Pats and not other teams? I find it hard to believe that there are so many teams making stuff up just to put the Pats in a bad light. They have better ways to spend their time.

 

[palinurus]

My biggest issue with the OTL report is they never once mentioned that video taping signals was legal, which speaks to Rhode's illustration above.

Instead, we get crap like this:



And we're supposed to believe everything written in the OTL report?

Spygate boils down to a video camera being in the wrong location for the Sept 2007 Jets game, a violation the Jets themselves committed during a 2006 game in Foxboro. Cheaters!

Did they film from the wrong location for 40+ games? We don't know that to be true, but assuming it is, coaches knew other teams had access to their signals regardless of where the camera was positioned and several teams failed to change signals throughout the season.

Why isn't anyone talking about the fact the Patriots went 17-0 in their next seventeen games after "Spygate" before a horribly botched non-holding call on the Tyree catch cost them the Super Bowl? It's just easier to label them cheaters and try to tear down the best franchise in professional sports, which is what we saw happen in farce that was Deflategate. It's the world we live in today. Very sad.

Since I include integrity in my definition of "best franchise," this cannot possibly be true. But it's odd that you would twist outrage over cheating into an example of what's wrong with the world.

 

[wizards8507]

The common denominator here is the Pats. Why do these type of stories keep popping up about the Pats and not other teams?

Confirmation bias. You think the Patriots are cheaters so you're going to look for the Patriots to be cheaters and assume they are if you see anything even remotely questionable.

I find it hard to believe that there are so many teams making stuff up just to put the Pats in a bad light.

Why is it so hard to believe? Honestly, from THIS fanbase of all fanbases. Go ask random Notre Dame hater what they think about the University. This article is the journalistic equivilant of this OTL report.

They have better ways to spend their time.

Right, like losing to the Patriots... for fifteen years.

 

[palinurus]

Confirmation bias. You think the Patriots are cheaters so you're going to look for the Patriots to be cheaters and assume they are if you see anything even remotely questionable.


Why is it so hard to believe? Honestly, from THIS fanbase of all fanbases. Go ask random Notre Dame hater what they think about the University. This article is the journalistic equivilant of this OTL report.


Right, like losing to the Patriots... for fifteen years.

I find it amusing that Patriot fans continue to pump their "championships" as though they are completely disembodied from, and utterly untainted by, proven scandal.

 

[NDWorld247]

Of course it wasn't simply a great catch. It was refereegate where the NFL told the refs to make sure the Giants win as a payback for Spygate.

It was an incredible catch, but watch Richard Seymour on the play. The umpire, who I know personally, admits to blowing the call. He froze in the moment. No conspiracy, just a bad mistake at the worst possible moment.

But that wasn't my point. Point was the report doesn't mention filming signals was legal and the Pats went 17-0 in their next 17 games.

 

[wizards8507]

I find it amusing that Patriot fans continue to pump their "championships" as though they are completely disembodied from, and utterly untainted by, proven scandal.

I find it amusing that you don't know what the word "proven" means. I assume you mean spygate, but you've already proven that you're ignorant of any facts in this case, so let me illuminate.

2001 - Taping was legal
2003 - Taping was legal
2004 - Taping was legal
2014 - They weren't taping

The Truth About Spygate: Punishing Success and Promoting Parity | Bleacher Report

 

[irishfan]

The common denominator here is the Pats. Why do these type of stories keep popping up about the Pats and not other teams? I find it hard to believe that there are so many teams making stuff up just to put the Pats in a bad light. They have better ways to spend their time.

Common denominator is a very large hatred towards the Patriots for winning too much, not having any issue with running up the score, and a coach who comes across as an asshole to those who aren't Pats fans.

There's a reason teams get caught pumping in crowd noise or heating up footballs on the sideline and no one cares. It's because they don't win 12+ games every season and embarrass a few teams along the way to what is annually a deep playoff run.

 

[palinurus]

I find it amusing that you don't know what the word "proven" means.

I find it amusing that you think forfeited draft picks and million dollar fines are inditia of integrity and honor.

It's also sad that you are reduced to arguing technicalities on what is, to any non-delusional person, embarrassingly dishonest behavior.

 

[ACamp1900]

Any of you Pats fans ever consider that your team may have so many wins in large part because of the stuff they've been getting away with to this point??? That report yesterday was pretty damning imo.

 

[wizards8507]

I find it amusing that you think forfeited draft picks and million dollar fines are inditia of integrity and honor.

I love the rampant hypocrisy. Get over yourself.

FOOTBALL - N.C.A.A. Puts Notre Dame Football on Probation - NYTimes.com

Any of you Pats fans ever consider that your team may have so many wins in large part because of the stuff they've been getting away with to this point??? That report yesterday was pretty damning imo.

So is the NCR article about Lizzy Seeberg. I've yet to see someone illustrate any difference between the two. In both cases, "haters" tried to tarnish the reputation of an alpha sports entity in the pursuit of clicks. The only difference is that you're an ND homer and a Patriots hater. Those of us who cheer for both see the parallel pretty clearly. Nobody on this site hesitates once to go after ESPN for perceived biases against Notre Dame (or pro-SEC or whatever), but all of a sudden their reporting is 100% objective and accurate when it comes to the Patriots? Get out of here.

 

[irishfan]

Any of you Pats fans ever consider that your team may have so many wins in large part because of the stuff they've been getting away with to this point??? That report yesterday was pretty damning imo.

The report focused mainly on Spygate. Their winning percentage is up noticeably since the Spygate penalties were handed down. In the SI report, there was nothing post-2007 that any team has caught the Patriots doing. If teams are wasting practice time running fake plays or coaches aren't as prepared as they should be because they think Belichick is going to break into their hotel room, then that's on them.

 

[palinurus]

I love the rampant hypocrisy. Get over yourself.

FOOTBALL - N.C.A.A. Puts Notre Dame Football on Probation - NYTimes.com

I love your red herring. You must be out of shady technical arguments.

 

[Irish Insanity]

As we all seem to say:

'Where there's smoke there's fire. '
But I guess that only goes for other teams, not if it's one of your own.

 

[wizards8507]

As we all seem to say:

'Where there's smoke there's fire. '
But I guess that only goes for other teams, not if it's one of your own.

Pot, meet kettle.

Reported sexual assault at Notre Dame campus leaves more questions than answers | National Catholic Reporter