[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[NDRock]

Did the NFL find new text messages? How did it go from "more likely than not" to "clear evidence" that Brady knew?

 

[IrishLion]

Get off of the "cheater" rhetoric. It makes you sound foolish, and you're not. Too-low football PSI is no different than curving your hockey stick too much, having pine tar too far up on your bat, or having your football PSI too high.

If Brady knew it was happening in the past, which it doesn't seem to be a question anymore with the way the questions are being handled at the trial, then he was skirting the rules for an advantage.

And skirting the rules for an advantage is "cheating." If I sound foolish for calling it how it is, then I don't know what to say lol.

It's no different than how using a non-regulation hockey stick is cheating, or misusing pinetar is cheating. That's all considered cheating in my book, as well.

I don't debate that Goodell seriously messed this up and is trying to take Brady down with him to salvage something from it, and I also don't debate that the penalties now seem to be way too harsh... but that doesn't change the definition of "cheating."

 

[irishfan]

If Brady knew it was happening in the past, which it doesn't seem to be a question anymore with the way the questions are being handled at the trial, then he was skirting the rules for an advantage.

And skirting the rules for an advantage is "cheating." If I sound foolish for calling it how it is, then I don't know what to say lol.

It's no different than how using a non-regulation hockey stick is cheating, or misusing pinetar is cheating. That's all considered cheating in my book, as well.

I don't debate that Goodell seriously messed this up and is trying to take Brady down with him to salvage something from it, and I also don't debate that the penalties now seem to be way too harsh... but that doesn't change the definition of "cheating."

This isn't being accepted anywhere as fact. The NFL tried to cite their "best" evidence (the equipment guys texting each other or Brady calling the equipment guy the days after the AFC Championship game) and the judge dismissed it since it doesn't pertain to the conclusion in the Wells Report, which was inflation for the AFC Championship game. There was no new cheating evidence or acceptance of guilt by Brady's team today. The judge actually went out of his way to say that the NFL had no proof against Brady in the Report.

 

[gkIrish]

Get off of the "cheater" rhetoric. It makes you sound foolish, and you're not. Too-low football PSI is no different than curving your hockey stick too much, having pine tar too far up on your bat, or having your football PSI too high.

When Joel Pineda had pine tar on his neck that looked like THIS...

Michael

 

[gkIrish]

Basically tired of this whole situation but if the result of this trial is that Brady did know about and/or instruct someone to deflate the balls illegally I could care less if they can't prove which specific game(s) it happened in. It just confirms that he is a cheater and validates everything we've said about him.

If the newest Patriot fan theory is "They can't prove he cheated in the Colts game so it doesn't matter what he did against the _____" then lol.

 

[irishfan]

Basically tired of this whole situation but if the result of this trial is that Brady did know about and/or instruct someone to deflate the balls illegally I could care less if they can't prove which specific game(s) it happened in. It just confirms that he is a cheater and validates everything we've said about him.

If the newest Patriot fan theory is "They can't prove he cheated in the Colts game so it doesn't matter what he did against the _____" then lol.

All the judge said was that the NFL needs to present evidence that pertains to the AFC Championship game since that the entire Wells Report revolves around that game. He is being charged with instructing the footballs to be deflated for that one game. The "evidence" the NFL tried to bring up against Brady was just the same old texts between equipment guys from the off-season.

Nothing in any report or tweet shows that there has been any new evidence against Brady or any sort of admission of past guilt. It's actually impressive that anyone could look at any transcript from today and think it makes Brady look worse. The NFL and their lawyers look like jokes for not having any sort of response when the judge asked what evidence there was against Brady that pertained to the AFC Championship game. It's laughable that they weren't prepared for that question and shows just how weak that their case is.

Today was pretty much unanimously accepted as a clear win for Brady/NFLPA so I don't get how any Pats fans theories or cheater confirmation is coming from.

 

[IrishLion]

"There is clear evidence in the texts that (Brady) knew..."

"On Jan. 18th?"

"No, not for that specific game."

So there IS clear evidence that Brady knew. The judge does not refute that... the judge refutes that the NFL's investigation on applied to one game.

So yeah, the evidence doesn't apply to this one game. But it appears that there IS evidence, but it just so happens to have been about previous instances. Or am I not understanding the the above quote?

 

[Bubbles]

Can we just rename this thread 'Fun with confirmation bias' and stop the charade?

 

[irishfan]

"There is clear evidence in the texts that (Brady) knew..."

"On Jan. 18th?"

"No, not for that specific game."

So there IS clear evidence that Brady knew. The judge does not refute that... the judge refutes that the NFL's investigation on applied to one game.

So yeah, the evidence doesn't apply to this one game. But it appears that there IS evidence, but it just so happens to have been about previous instances. Or am I not understanding the the above quote?

I'm reading it as the judge dismissing the texts since they were from months before the AFC Championship game. That's how it was interpreted in different articles I read as well. The judge was going out of his way to pick apart the Wells Report since he wants a settlement and the NFL is still insisting that Brady accept the Report's findings in any deal they make.

I don't think he was accepting any evidence as being "clear" and he mentions later there is no direct evidence anywhere in the report linking Brady to any deflation scheme. He definitely was not swayed by the Report's findings:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Judge Richard Berman seemed to question the Wells report, using air quotes with his hands when he called it "independent".</p>— Jim Armstrong (@JimArmstrongWBZ) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimArmstrongWBZ/status/631511840938422272">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Berman: I’m trying to figure out what is the direct evidence that implicates Mr. Brady in that deflation…in that bathroom…on Jan. 18</p>— Stephen Brown (@PPVSRB) <a href="https://twitter.com/PPVSRB/status/631494669734555648">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wells report said Brady was "generally aware of improper activities". Today judge said, "I'm not sure I know what in the world that means."</p>— Jim Armstrong (@JimArmstrongWBZ) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimArmstrongWBZ/status/631521642146070528">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[IrishJayhawk]

If Brady knew it was happening in the past, which it doesn't seem to be a question anymore with the way the questions are being handled at the trial, then he was skirting the rules for an advantage.

And skirting the rules for an advantage is "cheating." If I sound foolish for calling it how it is, then I don't know what to say lol.

It's no different than how using a non-regulation hockey stick is cheating, or misusing pinetar is cheating. That's all considered cheating in my book, as well.

I don't debate that Goodell seriously messed this up and is trying to take Brady down with him to salvage something from it, and I also don't debate that the penalties now seem to be way too harsh... but that doesn't change the definition of "cheating."

And 68% of the league believes that teams are deflating footballs. Only 16% say they are angry with the Pats for doing it.

This is a non-issue. If they're concerned about it, they should adjust the way the game balls are handled.

 

[Irish YJ]

Can we just rename this thread 'Fun with confirmation bias' and stop the charade?

how about "Fan delusion and legalese"

And 68% of the league believes that teams are deflating footballs. Only 16% say they are angry with the Pats for doing it.

This is a non-issue. If they're concerned about it, they should adjust the way the game balls are handled.

and 60+% of MLB use performance enhancing drugs in the past. no big deal

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”</p>— Michael McCann (@McCannSportsLaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631622331513860096">August 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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I know nothing about the guy or cases he is referencing, but I'm just going to assume the SI legal expert knows his stuff well enough that he wouldn't tweet this if it was some BS opinion.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Roger Goodell's Fatal Mistake: Tom Brady An Innocent Man

Now that Tom Brady transcripts have been released, let the Cold, Hard Football Facts summarize for you the entire DeflateGate controversy in 5 quick bullet points:
1) DeflateGate was fabricated by the NFL, based upon accusations by and apparent collaboration between two teams that can't beat the Patriots, the Ravens and the Colts. It was fueled by NFL executive Mike Kensil, a man who spent many years as a senior front-office executive with another Patriots whipping boy, the New York Jets.

2) The story, including faulty information from Kensil, was blown up by NFL allies in the media, including Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star, who covers a team that can't beat the Patriots, and Chris Mortensen of ESPN, who fed the nation a story that stood in contradiction to facts admitted by the NFL.

He only just retracted the story this week, seven months later.

3) The NFL's entire case against Brady is based upon innocuous texts about Brady instructing a ball boy to take care of the footballs ... like any QB would say at any time to any ball boy; and by the belief that a ball boy could rummage through a big netted bag and deflate 12 footballs to Brady's exact specifications in just 90 seconds in a cramped stadium bathroom.

Many of the accusations made by the NFL, meanwhile, are easily explained by science, including the Ideal Gas Law, which NFL officials admitted they knew nothing about before accusing Brady of wrongdoing; and by the fact that NFL officials have admitted that balls lose air pressure during games.

Keep in mind, this entire time, the NFL found that the Colts ALSO played the AFC title game with footballs that measured under the legal limit. The league simply ignored the fact that 3 of 4 Colts footballs measured under the hallowed 12.5 PSI (upon which the NFL tells us rests the integrity of the game), as if the rules applied to only one team.

4) There is NO proof, no video, no audio, no document, no text, no email, no admission, no data, no communication, no record of any kind that shows that Tom Brady had any role in illegally doctoring footballs so that they were below legal guidelines. None. This proof does not exist. Shit, there is barely any evidence of wrongdoing by Brady, let alone a smoking gun.

5) The legal world has a term for a person against whom no proof of wrongdoing exists: "Innocent."

And for all this, Gridiron Godfather Roger Goodell and the mighty NFL endeavored to destroy the reputation of one of its all-time great players. In doing so, the NFL chiseled away at the foundation of its own integrity ... apparently without realizing it.
Nice job, NFL. For Goodell, meanwhile, sounds like he'll soon learn what the Colts, Ravens, Jets and others have long known: trying to take down Tommy is a fatal mistake.

 

[Irish YJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”</p>— Michael McCann (@McCannSportsLaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631622331513860096">August 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I know nothing about the guy or cases he is referencing, but I'm just going to assume the SI legal expert knows his stuff well enough that he wouldn't tweet this if it was some BS opinion.

One of Milstein's more prominent works/publications.....

"Sperm Donor Industry needs more Regulation" National Law Journal Op-Ed authored, April 2015

 

[Irish YJ]

Roger Goodell's Fatal Mistake: Tom Brady An Innocent Man

Kerry J. Byrne is a Boston Herald writer.... FWIW

 

[Rhode Irish]

One of Milstein's more prominent works/publications.....

"Sperm Donor Industry needs more Regulation" National Law Journal Op-Ed authored, April 2015

So...clear bias. Right? Or....uh maybe I don't get the point.

 

[Irish YJ]

So...clear bias. Right? Or....uh maybe I don't get the point.

Rhode, you have my Grandfather's sense of humor.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Kerry J. Byrne is a Boston Herald writer.... FWIW

Yes, he's a member of the notoriously homerish Boston sports media. Ha! Or actually he just writes about beer.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yes, he's a member of the notoriously homerish Boston sports media. Ha! Or actually he just writes about beer.

That's better RI

 

[irishfan]

One of Milstein's more prominent works/publications.....

"Sperm Donor Industry needs more Regulation" National Law Journal Op-Ed authored, April 2015

if he's an expert on balls then I'm pretty confident in his opinion on this particular matter.

 

[Irish YJ]

if he's an expert on balls then I'm pretty confident in his opinion on this particular matter.

For probably the first time IrishFan, YJ is picking up what you're laying down.

 

[Rhode Irish]

It Is What It Is » Jeffrey Kessler, NFLPA rip Roger Goodell in new Deflategate filing

Yes, WEEI is a Boston radio station. But this is not commentary, it is just a summary of the the NFLPA's filing in court today. Pretty interesting if you're following the proceedings, regardless of what side you're on. This is a pretty good summary of the filing.

 

[irishfan]

Even if they lose, at least they're showing that the process is beyond unfair. I still think Brady wins but any unbiased person can look at this and realized how messed up it is.

 

[NDRock]

Even if they lose, at least they're showing that the process is beyond unfair. I still think Brady wins but any unbiased person can look at this and realized how messed up it is.

It's still mind boggling how bad the NFL has screwed this up. They're in Federal Court over PSI, unreal. It's like if George Brett and baseball unded up in court over the pine tar incident. I do enjoy watching Pats fans and Pats haters go at it like some political debate. Good theatre.

 

[irishfan]

This is from Brady's lawyers solely talking about the lies Goodell made in his appeal decision when the NFL thought the transcript would never come out. So slimy seeing it all in one place.

"Although no more than objective partiality is required to disqualify Goodell (NFLPA Mot. 14-15), the Award in fact evidences his actual bias. It is more smear campaign than reasoned decision—a propaganda piece written for public consumption, at a time when the NFL believed the transcript would be sealed from public view, to validate a multi-million-dollar “independent” investigation. For example:

Goodell leads the Award with a “gotcha!” discussion about Brady purportedly destroying his phone, never acknowledging that Brady had turned over all of his emails and all of his phone bills (which demonstrated that Wells already had all relevant text communications from other sources) or mentioning that it was Brady’s career-long practice to recycle his phones because of Brady’s privacy concerns.

Goodell found that Brady’s increased communications with Jastremski after the AFC Championship game “undermine[d] any suggestion that the communications addressed only preparation of footballs for the Super Bowl rather than the tampering allegations” (Award 9) when Brady actually testified—at length—that he did discuss the tampering allegations with Jastremski because he was concerned they were causing Jastremski considerable stress and he wanted to know what had happened.

Goodell wrote that the NFLPA’s expert, Dean Snyder, “performed no independent analysis or experiments” (Award 6) when Snyder testified for two hours about the statistical, regression, and other analyses that his team conducted (Hr’g Tr. 150-227).

Goodell wrote in the Award (at 8) that Brady testified “that the Patriots’ equipment personnel would not do anything to game balls that was inconsistent with what he wanted” when Brady actually testified that this is why he “do[es]n’t think anyone would tamper with the ball” (Hr’g Tr. 147:21-22).

Goodell radically changed Wells’ finding of “general awareness” of purported ball deflation by others into a conspiratorial “scheme” when the hearing record contains not a shred of evidence about any such “scheme” that Goodell could cite." Pgs 17-18

 

[Irish YJ]

While I'm in the camp that believes Brady knew all along, I'm just tired of this whole thing and wish it would be done already. Goodell is such a clown.

 

[Irish Insanity]

While I'm in the camp that believes Brady knew all along, I'm just tired of this whole thing and wish it would be done already. Goodell is such a clown.

2nd

 

[woolybug25]

Tom Brady of New England Patriots open to accepting suspension, with provisions -- source

ruh-roh...

 

[irishfan]

Tom Brady of New England Patriots open to accepting suspension, with provisions -- source

ruh-roh...

New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady is open to accepting some form of suspension, but only if it can be for failing to cooperate with the NFL rather than admitting to the Wells report findings, league sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Wednesday.

Even with those parameters, however, league sources said Wednesday that settlement discussions on Brady's attempt to overturn a four-game suspension have gone "nowhere."

A rumor from a while ago was that the NFL was offering a 1-game suspension if he accepted the finding of the Wells Report. Now, this. It's going to be frustrating if this goes to the next appeal and doesn't get resolved until 2016. Both sides seemingly are on board with 1 game. If true, it's so stupid they don't reach a settlement based on language in a Report.

For the record, I wouldn't be pleased with 1 game, but I'd be happy for it to be over with.

 

[woolybug25]

A rumor from a while ago was that the NFL was offering a 1-game suspension if he accepted the finding of the Wells Report. Now, this. It's going to be frustrating if this goes to the next appeal and doesn't get resolved until 2016. Both sides seemingly are on board with 1 game. If true, it's so stupid they don't reach a settlement based on language in a Report.

For the record, I wouldn't be pleased with 1 game, but I'd be happy for it to be over with.

If Brady isn't going to win in his wasteful use of our federal court system, then why should the NFL lessen his punishment? That's not how negotiation works. If Brady wanted that, then THAT is what he should have approached them with. Brady put them in a situation where it was impossible for the NFL to back down without looking bad. If the report is true, and he is willing to accept the punishment, then why would they lessen it?

If I was Goodell right now, I would tell Brady that I would be happy to make the punishment for only not cooperating, but be pretty hardlined with the games. Maybe give him one game back or something as a bone to the league, but just completely folding when the other side gives up, is not how negotiation works.