[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[irishfan]

If Brady isn't going to win in his wasteful use of our federal court system, then why should the NFL lessen his punishment? That's not how negotiation works. If Brady wanted that, then THAT is what he should have approached them with. Brady put them in a situation where it was impossible for the NFL to back down without looking bad. If the report is true, and he is willing to accept the punishment, then why would they lessen it?

If I was Goodell right now, I would tell Brady that I would be happy to make the punishment for only not cooperating, but be pretty hardlined with the games. Maybe give him one game back or something as a bone to the league, but just completely folding when the other side gives up, is not how negotiation works.

^Keep in mind this settlement is something that the NFL will pretty much never accept since they can't turn their back on the Wells Report. I would guess this offer is Brady's side showing the judge that they're trying to settle in "good faith," while the NFL is hung up on language and possibly more games.

It's just annoying that 1-game is something they seemingly agree on, but that there is no way in hell they will ever agree on the Wells Report which will cause this case to get appealed by whoever loses. The NFL/NFLPA have too much riding on it unfortunately.

 

[woolybug25]

^Keep in mind this settlement is something that the NFL will pretty much never accept since they can't turn their back on the Wells Report. I would guess this offer is Brady's side showing the judge that they're trying to settle in "good faith," while the NFL is hung up on language and possibly more games.

It's just annoying that 1-game is something they seemingly agree on, but that there is no way in hell they will ever agree on the Wells Report which will cause this case to get appealed by whoever loses. The NFL/NFLPA have too much riding on it unfortunately.

The bolded is not true. They AT ONE TIME each individually were ok with 1 game. If the NFL were ok with it now, then they would simply settle.

I also don't think that telling the judge that he is willing to take 1/4 of the punishment with no acknowledgement of guilt, is "good faith". Up until this point, both sides have veered to the extremes, meaning Brady wanted no punishment and the league wouldn't budge. The middle isn't Brady serving one game.

 

[wizards8507]

If Brady isn't going to win in his wasteful use of our federal court system, then why should the NFL lessen his punishment?

Wasteful use of our federal court system? First of all, this is the NFL and the NFLPA. Mr. Brady did not file a lawsuit. Second of all, shouldn't a rust belt liberal like you be all about big labor going after "the man"?

 

[woolybug25]

Wasteful use of our federal court system? First of all, this is the NFL and the NFLPA. Mr. Brady did not file a lawsuit. Second of all, shouldn't a rust belt liberal like you be all about big labor going after "the man"?

First of all, I already addressed the wastefulness earlier. So go back and search if you want an explanation.

Second of all, i'm not a liberal.

Third of all, you're an idiot.

 

[irishfan]

The bolded is not true. They AT ONE TIME each individually were ok with 1 game. If the NFL were ok with it now, then they would simply settle.

I also don't think that telling the judge that he is willing to take 1/4 of the punishment with no acknowledgement of guilt, is "good faith". Up until this point, both sides have veered to the extremes, meaning Brady wanted no punishment and the league wouldn't budge. The middle isn't Brady serving one game.

This isn't true. The game suspension is only important to Brady and the NFL fans. The NFL/NFLPA cares about the Wells Report and the language there. To them, this is about establishing precedent for future cases. For Brady and fans, it's about deflating and games.

And to respond to your last thing: Again, this is most likely the Brady camp showing "good faith" to the judge regarding the settlement talks. This case has a very small chance of being ultimately settled barring the judge implying which was he is leaning. The judge asked for "good faith" settlement talks so Brady's side is giving it to him. Might as well appease the judge if he's going to be deciding on something many view as 50/50.

 

[wizards8507]

Third of all, you're an idiot.

 

[woolybug25]

This isn't true. The game suspension is only important to Brady and the NFL fans. The NFL/NFLPA cares about the Wells Report and the language there

The NFL cares about keeping their credibility and that is it. They don't care about the stupid language of the Wells Report. They just don't want egg on their face when they used that report as the basis for their punishment. By giving Brady a pass on the guilt, they look bad for punishing him for simply not complying with their investigation. That isn't a result they are looking for and it certainly seems like Brady (and fanboys) are starting to realize that.

And to respond to your last thing: Again, this is most likely the Brady camp showing "good faith" to the judge regarding the settlement talks. This case has a very small chance of being ultimately settled barring the judge implying which was he is leaning. The judge asked for "good faith" settlement talks so Brady's side is giving it to him. Might as well appease the judge if he's going to be deciding on something many view as 50/50.

Acting in "good faith" implies that the offer is honest with sincere intention. Do you think offering to take one game with complete absolvement of guilt meets that criteria? You would be singing a different tune if the NFL offered a settlement of 3 games with the stipulation that Brady has to admit under oath of cheating. Which are simply opposite sides of the same coin.

Bottom line... despite recent weeks of conjecture from Pats fans, it looks like the NFL holds the chips here.

 

[irishfan]

The NFL cares about keeping their credibility and that is it. They don't care about the stupid language of the Wells Report. They just don't want egg on their face when they used that report as the basis for their punishment. By giving Brady a pass on the guilt, they look bad for punishing him for simply not complying with their investigation. That isn't a result they are looking for and it certainly seems like Brady (and fanboys) are starting to realize that.

Acting in "good faith" implies that the offer is honest with sincere intention. Do you think offering to take one game with complete absolvement of guilt meets that criteria? You would be singing a different tune if the NFL offered a settlement of 3 games with the stipulation that Brady has to admit under oath of cheating. Which are simply opposite sides of the same coin.

Bottom line... despite recent weeks of conjecture from Pats fans, it looks like the NFL holds the chips here.

Brady and fanboys have been aware from Day 1 he wasn't going to get a pass on guilt and the NFL wouldn't allow it. Hence Goodell not appointing a real arbitrator.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on pretty much everything else. The Judge already trashed the Wells Report last week in court, it is ridiculous for the league to expect Brady to accept it's findings after that.

Also, what do you expect Brady's camp to offer for a settlement? Something right down the middle? That's not how negotiations work in the early stages. I'm shocked he is ever offering 1 game based on everything that has been reported saying he was dead set on 0 games.

 

[woolybug25]

Brady and fanboys have been aware from Day 1 he wasn't going to get a pass on guilt and the NFL wouldn't allow it. Hence Goodell not appointing a real arbitrator.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on pretty much everything else. The Judge already trashed the Wells Report last week in court, it is ridiculous for the league to expect Brady to accept it's findings after that.

Also, what do you expect Brady's camp to offer for a settlement? Something right down the middle? That's not how negotiations work in the early stages. I'm shocked he is ever offering 1 game based on everything that has been reported.

You're joking, right? Go back and read the thread. Hell... Brady is trying to negotiate getting a pass on guilt right now.

My man... it's crazy how much you will argue for Brady simply because of fandom.

 

[irishfan]

You're joking, right? Go back and read the thread. Hell... Brady is trying to negotiate getting a pass on guilt right now.

My man... it's crazy how much you will argue for Brady simply because of fandom.

Maybe I misread "pass." I thought you meant the NFL conceding it and saying the Wells Report was wrong. Not possible at this point unless the NFL thinks Berman will rule against them. And even then, they will probably avoid a settlement and just appeal the decision.

 

[Irish Insanity]

But, he's completely innocent.

 

[irishfan]

So the NFL got ripped a new one today in court once again....

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Colts did better against Pats than the NFL did today against Jeff Kessler. Judge didn't sound impressed by league arguments in Brady case</p>— Dan Wetzel (@DanWetzel) <a href="https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/634038666332139522">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Judge Berman was critical of NFL last week, he was even more critical today. Questions of fundamental fairness and evident impartiality.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/634039709115809793">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Judge Berman was very critical of Goodell’s conparison of ball deflation to steroids, and that Wells Report has no Brady link to Jan. 18</p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/634038531548151808">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not only did Berman grill the NFL, but he made observations on his own that boosted the credibility of NFLPA argument. Not good for NFL</p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/634039804813045760">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[wizards8507]

But, he's completely innocent.

Damn right. He's a fawkin' saint.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Damn right. He's a fawkin' saint.

We must be talking about different people. The one I'm talking about is a Patriot.

 

[Rhode Irish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Colts did better against Pats than the NFL did today against Jeff Kessler. Judge didn't sound impressed by league arguments in Brady case</p>— Dan Wetzel (@DanWetzel) <a href="https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/634038666332139522">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Judge Berman was critical of NFL last week, he was even more critical today. Questions of fundamental fairness and evident impartiality.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/634039709115809793">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Judge Berman was very critical of Goodell’s conparison of ball deflation to steroids, and that Wells Report has no Brady link to Jan. 18</p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/634038531548151808">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not only did Berman grill the NFL, but he made observations on his own that boosted the credibility of NFLPA argument. Not good for NFL</p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/634039804813045760">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Yeah, but obviously the judge was only saying and thinking these things because he is a Tom Brady fanboy. There is no way that the people who have been following this closest for months could actually be right that it was a complete railroading by the league and that the case against Brady is actually based on nothing but a desire to find him guilty of something.

 

[Irish#1]

Brady and Goodell are both coming out of this with a black eye.

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/jeffphowe">@jeffphowe</a> Given that the NFL got a legal colonoscopy without anesthesia in court today, that probably would be accurate.</p>— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/634067670221082624">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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So....you're telling me that the "league sources" weren't 100% truthful again?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Brady and Goodell are both coming out of this with a black eye.

Brady will only have a black eye to those predisposed to viewing him that way. To a neutral observer he is at worst a guy who stood up for himself in a way that was not terribly well thought out. At best he should be seen as an innocent bystander in yet another League soap opera who quite heroically dug in his heels and refused be railroaded by an incompetent and unprofessional League office.

 

[irishfan]

Yeah, but obviously the judge was only saying and thinking these things because he is a Tom Brady fanboy. There is no way that the people who have been following this closest for months could actually be right that it was a complete railroading by the league and that the case against Brady is actually based on nothing but a desire to find him guilty of something.

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/uCaUdAcJAQUpi" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/win-brady-snub-uCaUdAcJAQUpi">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/jeffphowe">@jeffphowe</a> Given that the NFL got a legal colonoscopy without anesthesia in court today, that probably would be accurate.</p>— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/634067670221082624">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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So....you're telling me that the "league sources" weren't 100% truthful again?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per 2 sources informed of Tom Brady’s thinking, his stance hasn’t changed. Not willing to accept any suspension in settlement at this point</p>— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/634067937456996356">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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If this is true, then I am kind of disappointed that Schefter would fall for false info from the league with the way this whole thing has played out. He is usually on the money with all of his reports and has been one of the only ESPN guys who has been extremely neutral throughout this whole thing.

 

[Irish#1]

Brady will only have a black eye to those predisposed to viewing him that way. To a neutral observer he is at worst a guy who stood up for himself in a way that was not terribly well thought out. At best he should be seen as an innocent bystander in yet another League soap opera who quite heroically dug in his heels and refused be railroaded by an incompetent and unprofessional League office.

I've heard plenty of talking heads mention his lack of cooperation has hurt his reputation regardless of the outcome.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I've heard plenty of talking heads mention his lack of cooperation has hurt his reputation regardless of the outcome.

I guess that depends on how submissive and yellow bellied you are. If you have any balls at all, you should respect a guy telling people trying to frame him to stick their investigation up their asses. Personally, I think defiance is the best personality trait a person can have, especially in the face of overzealous and corrupt authority.

 

[irishfan]

I guess that depends on how submissive and yellow bellied you are. If you have any balls at all, you should respect a guy telling people trying to frame him to stick their investigation up their asses. Personally, I think defiance is the best personality trait a person can have, especially in the face of overzealous and corrupt authority.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just want to point out for the 83,789th time that Goodell suspended Brady w/ no actual evidence, then made himself the judge for the appeal.</p>— Bill Simmons (@BillSimmons) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/634022317526413312">August 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Such a messed up process, I don't know why anyone would give this league any of their private information.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, but obviously the judge was only saying and thinking these things because he is a Tom Brady fanboy. There is no way that the people who have been following this closest for months could actually be right that it was a complete railroading by the league and that the case against Brady is actually based on nothing but a desire to find him guilty of something.

That's just something that Pat fans will say to justify the hate. Personally, I had no ill will against Brady until about a year or so ago. Before then, I downright admired him. He has turned into a self absorbed man that believes that he is more important than the rest of the world.

I honestly don't care if he tampered with the balls (which I think he very well did). His attitude that he was above the NFL and that he clearly didn't cooperate with the process is what created my distaste for him.

The fact remains, whether you like it or not, you play by the rules that the world gives to you. You don't tell your boss how to do his/her job. You don't force your wife to live life under your rules. You work with your partners to find solutions and take responsibility for your actions. He had a union hired specifically to work with the league for disputes. He could have proactively met with Goodell, provided information and negotiated on the front end. But instead... he was unnecessarily defiant and brought it into the court of public opinion. I don't respect that nor think its admirable.

You may see defiance as a good trait, I vehemently disagree. 9 times out of 10, defiance is a sign of weakness. A weakness of the mind that gives a person a simple way of absolving themselves of responsibility and/or collaborative problem solving. It is a basic instinct for personal protection at all cost. It's shortsighted and frankly bad for your soul. This isn't a situation where an innocent person is defiant to tyranny and willing to fight for the better good, regardless of personal costs. This is a weak willed man desperately trying to force his personal benefit onto others in order to get his desired outcome.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah, I just think we have a philosophical disagreement then. I see defiance as a cousin of justice and righteousness. Weakness is letting yourself get chewed up and spit out when you did nothing wrong. Fighting for your rights and your reputation and the truth is not a weakness.

 

[IrishLion]

Tom Brady: Champion of Justice.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, I just think we have a philosophical disagreement then. I see defiance as a cousin of justice and righteousness. Weakness is letting yourself get chewed up and spit out when you did nothing wrong. Fighting for your rights and your reputation and the truth is not a weakness.

A cousin, but more of the red headed step cousin to justice/righteousness. The latter are both universally "good", while defiance has nothing to do with "good" as a definition. They can be quite mutually exclusive.

Defiance more often then not is used as a mental crutch for people in order to avoid conflict resolution, negotiation and fair dealing. Simply putting your heals into the sand and refusing to do anything that doesn't fit your narrative takes zero mental will. It is the easiest method of avoiding taking problem solving approach to any issue. There are certainly times where defiance is warranted and admirable, but this isn't revolting against a tyranny. This is an employment dispute.

 

[Irish YJ]

I guess that depends on how submissive and yellow bellied you are. If you have any balls at all, you should respect a guy telling people trying to frame him to stick their investigation up their asses. Personally, I think defiance is the best personality trait a person can have, especially in the face of overzealous and corrupt authority.

trying to frame him....
I don't see any of this as being about right or wrong... it's turned into legalese, posturing, and semantics.

Goodell is a clown. Brady knew. That's what nation thinks at this point IMO.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I consider myself to be neutral to this whole thing, neither a hater or fan of the Pats and Brady. I think at this point, both the NFL and Brady look like huge jackasses. Brady looks bad for being so uncooperative, especially to a game that has given him so much in his life. Meanwhile, the NFL looks like vengeful pricks that are willing to do anything to cover their own ass. Either way, I am tired of this ordeal and it has dragged on for far too long. It's like that high school couple that had a bad break-up but goes out of their way for the next six months to show everyone how right they were and how wrong the other person was. It's tiresome and I frankly do give a shit anymore. Nothing from this point on will change my viewpoint.