[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[FightingIrishLover7]

I would also like to hear any argument. Even if the NFL says the circumstantial evidence is convincing (it isn't), they still didn't follow protocol with their decision. The "rule" that Brady is being charged with violating is one that only applies to teams and not to players. The "tampering" rule is in a handbook given to only teams and is something that is not handed out to players. Troy Vincent in the appeal even admitted that this handbook is not given to players and that he never received it as a player in the league.

In other words....even if Brady is guilty, the rule he broke doesn't apply to players and never has in the past. There is no way in hell the NFL is going to win this case in court for a myriad of reasons, but that's just one of them for the people who will be forever convinced that Brady is guilty.

But why do you care so much? Why invest so much time into an argument that's not involving you?

I'm done here. I've already wasted too much time.

 

[irishfan]

But why do you care so much? Why invest so much time into an argument that's not involving you?

I'm done here. I've already wasted too much time.

Because the Patriots are about a half-step below ND for me and I would be defending ND or one of it's players even more over an issue like this.

Should I also not invest 3 hours to watch ND or the Patriots on the weekend in the fall? That's a lot of time for something that doesn't involve me.

 

[gkIrish]

I haven't had time to read the appeal. Can anyone provide a link to an unbiased summary?

 

[woolybug25]

 

[Rhode Irish]

So sexy.

 

[irishfan]

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[irishfan]

I haven't had time to read the appeal. Can anyone provide a link to an unbiased summary?

I'm honestly having trouble finding a summary from someone who isn't a member of the Boston media. I think most national people have story-fatigue and no one from ESPN/NFL Network is touching this story for the most part.

From Florio, there are some bits and pieces of what jumped out at him. Most is anti-NFL but he has questions about Brady's denial as well. Sorry it's in so many links, but there isn't a good breakdown on the appeal anywhere I can find that doesn't have a noticeable Patriots-lean to it.

At hearing, Brady tiptoed around preference for 12.5 PSI | ProFootballTalk

Ruling mischaracterizes Brady’s testimony about communications with Jastremski | ProFootballTalk

Vincent admits Brady was disciplined under policy not given to players | ProFootballTalk

Ted Wells, “independent” investigator in name only | ProFootballTalk

Transcript proves NFL didn’t know air pressure could drop naturally | ProFootballTalk

Kessler asked for transcript release during hearing | ProFootballTalk

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm honestly having trouble finding a summary from someone who isn't a member of the Boston media. I think most national people have story-fatigue and no one from ESPN/NFL Network is touching this story for the most part.

From Florio, there are some bits and pieces of what jumped out at him. Most is anti-NFL but he has questions about Brady's denial as well. Sorry it's in so many links, but there isn't a good breakdown on the appeal anywhere I can find that doesn't have a noticeable Patriots-lean to it.

At hearing, Brady tiptoed around preference for 12.5 PSI | ProFootballTalk

Ruling mischaracterizes Brady’s testimony about communications with Jastremski | ProFootballTalk

Vincent admits Brady was disciplined under policy not given to players | ProFootballTalk

Ted Wells, “independent” investigator in name only | ProFootballTalk

Transcript proves NFL didn’t know air pressure could drop naturally | ProFootballTalk

Kessler asked for transcript release during hearing | ProFootballTalk

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

 

[irishfan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

This article is great IMO but Wetzel was called biased earlier in this thread, so didn't want to post him. It's a must-read though for sure.

 

[Irish#1]

I haven't had time to read the appeal. Can anyone provide a link to an unbiased summary?

Look who's quick to supply links? lol

 

[Rhode Irish]

On what grounds is he biased? Because he isn't part of the media the NFL has already bought?

I like how all these unaffiliated national writers are all of a sudden now huge Patriot homers. Like, how did that happen? Maybe there is actually just merit to what they are saying and what we've been saying the whole time?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Patriot fans be like

 

[NDRock]

Have these personal emails of Tom Brady actually been leaked or are they public record now? I've seen the term "leaked" being used but was curious if that was correct.

 

[irishfan]

Have these personal emails of Tom Brady actually been leaked or are they public record now? I've seen the term "leaked" being used but was curious if that was correct.

Public record. The rhetoric from each side seems to be that the other party responsible for this going to court. Kraft blamed the NFL for this going to federal court, and of course the NFL thinks it's Brady's fault this is going to court and these records are public.

I've seen a lot of articles about some of the emails, and the emails about Manning or Brunell or complaining about expensive pool covers are amusing, but it's still messed up that they are all public. Yahoo had an article analyzing his emails with his ex-girlfriend about their child. Stuff like that should remain private. The Brady camp submitted this all as evidence, but it's messed up the NFL wanted it in the first place. This is all over an alleged .5 lb of air in a football and now his private emails are public record. So stupid.

 

[irishfan]

Deflategate: Tackling key questions ahead of Wednesday's hearing - NFL - SI.com

Here's a good breakdown on the first day of the Brady hearing, which is going on right now.

Also, I found this hilarious from yesterday. Even if you think the Patriots are lying, at least they give answers as opposed to dancing around everything.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I asked Goodell why the NFL didn't correct the ESPN report from January. Here's his answer. Can you make sense of it? <a href="http://t.co/IhVxt0JFdR">pic.twitter.com/IhVxt0JFdR</a></p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/631209304452898817">August 11, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL now saying there will be no settlement unless Tom Brady accepts findings of the Wells report, sources tell ESPN's <a href="https://twitter.com/mortreport">@mortreport</a>.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/631463412845801472">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ESPN says NFL is demanding Brady accept Wells Report in any settlement. Which means admitting perjury, so it's a ridiculous request.</p>— Dan Wetzel (@DanWetzel) <a href="https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/631467900499546113">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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This is laughable. They're asking him to admit he lied under oath.

 

[IrishLax]

NFL player survey reveals that majority think New England Patriots deflated footballs but aren't "cheaters"

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If today was the 1st quarter in Tom Brady v. NFL, Brady might actually get some rest in the 4th. A good day for him. <a href="https://t.co/3CsF2FuguY">https://t.co/3CsF2FuguY</a></p>— Michael McCann (@McCannSportsLaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631508298487988224">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Sal Pal and Schefter said the NFL looked rattled today in court as well. Should be some good summaries of the hearing soon, but the tweet excerpts are pretty good.

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the most important exchange to the point made in my previous tweet. <a href="http://t.co/nJU7nZ1lkj">pic.twitter.com/nJU7nZ1lkj</a></p>— Kevin Duffy (@KevinRDuffy) <a href="https://twitter.com/KevinRDuffy/status/631511134500163584">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Ha this is great. Not so much fun when you can no longer cherrypick the evidence at will.

 

[IrishLion]

It's also enlightening that there clearly IS evidence that Brady knew it was happening, just not in the time frame of the bungled investigation.

 

[Irish Insanity]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the most important exchange to the point made in my previous tweet. <a href="http://t.co/nJU7nZ1lkj">pic.twitter.com/nJU7nZ1lkj</a></p>— Kevin Duffy (@KevinRDuffy) <a href="https://twitter.com/KevinRDuffy/status/631511134500163584">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Ha this is great. Not so much fun when you can no longer cherrypick the evidence at will.

The evidence doesn't matter at this point. They're in court to argue if the NFL had the right to discipline him.

 

[Blaise]

The evidence doesn't matter at this point. They're in court to argue if the NFL had the right to discipline him.

they will argue guys used stickem or other ways to "cheat" yet got fines... Goodell ruling on the appeal wasn't fair etc.....

I just love NE being hated on and Gooddell being made to look like an idiot... Win Win

 

[Irish YJ]

This is laughable. They're asking him to admit he lied under oath.

If what we are hearing is true (text between others clearly suggests Brady knew in earlier games that this was occurring), do we simply say the equipment managers are lying in their texts, or Brady was lying under oath? Or do we say because it was not during the relevant game, that the info is irrelevant?

IMO, those tweets about earlier texts (if true) pointing to Brady's knowledge of deflation pretty much proves he lied.

 

[wizards8507]

If what we are hearing is true (text between others clearly suggests Brady knew in earlier games that this was occurring), do we simply say the equipment managers are lying in their texts, or Brady was lying under oath? Or do we say because it was not during the relevant game, that the info is irrelevant?

The last one. Brady was punished for cheating in the 2015 AFC Championship Game so that's what the evidence would have to support, which it doesn't.

IMO, those tweets about earlier texts (if true) pointing to Brady's knowledge of deflation pretty much proves he lied.

That's irrelevant. It's like proving that a defendant lied to his wife one time when he went to the strip club but said he went to the grocery store... and then using that lie as evidence that he murdered his brother a year later.

The evidence doesn't matter at this point. They're in court to argue if the NFL had the right to discipline him.

That's mostly true, but the Brady people could also make the argument that the evidence is so lopsided against the ruling that it was arbitrary and capricious. In other words, even if the NFL and the commissioner had the authority to do what they did, they still had to do it in good faith.

 

[IrishLion]

That's irrelevant. It's like proving that a defendant lied to his wife one time when he went to the strip club but said he went to the grocery store... and then using that lie as evidence that he murdered his brother a year later.

How is it anything like that? The tweet makes it seem like there is clear evidence that Brady knew the balls were being deflated... just not during the window of the botched investigation.

So yeah, Brady will get off, and it IS clear that Goodell is a sh!thead that has no idea what he's doing... but now it also seems that Brady really IS a cheater, but he's gonna get off because the investigation's self-imposed window blew it relative to past evidence.

 

[irishfan]

How is it anything like that? The tweet makes it seem like there is clear evidence that Brady knew the balls were being deflated... just not during the window of the botched investigation.

So yeah, Brady will get off, and it IS clear that Goodell is a sh!thead that has no idea what he's doing... but now it also seems that Brady really IS a cheater, but he's gonna get off because the investigation's self-imposed window blew it relative to past evidence.

It's not so much that there is definitive proof that he "cheated" in other games but it's mocking the NFL for cherry-picking evidence to try and prove things that it doesn't relate to. It's like my point earlier in this thread about how the "deflator" text from May 2014 was damning in the NFL's eyes, but the texts from October 2014 where they talk about how the balls are supposed to be at 12.5 pre-game got ignored.

 

[Irish YJ]

semantics and getting away from the basics of common sense. the whole "sting" was to catch them doing something most thought they have been doing for a while. if evidence points that they have been doing it in the past, and Brady had knowledge,,,, what does it matter that they don't have evidence that directly points to one specific game.

I don't really care about the whole "NFL has the right to...." thing. This is about cheating and if Brady cheated, or knew cheating was going on. That's what this situation is about.

The husband lying and.... murdering is poor analogy. It's did he have knowledge of cheating in one game vs knowledge of the same type of cheating in earlier games. If so, he knew cheating was going which suggest he was aware of ongoing cheating, and part of the problem.

 

[irishfan]

The evidence doesn't matter at this point. They're in court to argue if the NFL had the right to discipline him.

It doesn't. But it does for any settlement that they discuss with the judge. He didn't ask about the Wells Report for no reason. The NFL is demanding that Brady accept the Wells Report in any settlement, so the judge pretty much threw that idea out the window today by poking so many holes in it.

Most people think this case is about 50/50 if they don't settle due to the tricky language of the CBA, so I'm certainly not going to complain about the NFL making themselves look like idiots in front of the judge.

 

[wizards8507]

How is it anything like that? The tweet makes it seem like there is clear evidence that Brady knew the balls were being deflated... just not during the window of the botched investigation.

So yeah, Brady will get off, and it IS clear that Goodell is a sh!thead that has no idea what he's doing... but now it also seems that Brady really IS a cheater, but he's gonna get off because the investigation's self-imposed window blew it relative to past evidence.

Get off of the "cheater" rhetoric. It makes you sound foolish, and you're not. Too-low football PSI is no different than curving your hockey stick too much, having pine tar too far up on your bat, or having your football PSI too high.

When Joel Pineda had pine tar on his neck that looked like THIS...

...he got a ten game suspension (in a 162 game season). What Brady got is the equivalent of a 40-game baseball suspension for a standard of "more probable than not" that he was "at least generally aware" of an infraction of equal magnitude to Pineda's. I imagine Pineda's catcher and third baseman were "at least generally aware" of what he was up to. Should they have been suspended 40 games?

 

[irishfan]

More NFL "evidence" used against Brady. Apparently Brady refusing to throw his equipment guys under the bus means he's hiding something.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was a great back and forth between Judge Berman and the NFL. Didn't make the NFL look very good <a href="http://t.co/hi4Ovfn9UA">pic.twitter.com/hi4Ovfn9UA</a></p>— Ben Volin (@BenVolin) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/631538231402713088">August 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
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