2016 Presidential Horse Race

[phgreek]

Hillary Clinton to hand over email server to Justice Dept.

So far 4 confirmed.

ETA: It is good that she turned over the servers so that it can be investigated.

She had SCI on a public server?...just...oh my fvcking hell...that is a shitstorm.

Mrs. Clinton better hope it isn't true...I think DOJ will come out of all of this with the reputation of the IRS ...Mrs. Clinton might be extracted, but the damage and the division this ordeal could cause...SMH.

I see a bad moon arisen...

 

[BGIF]

From the article you posted. The state department originally said it was ok for him to keep them in his office then changed their mind (not that I think it was the proper way to handle the information but you are leaving an important detail out). Also on the previous page I pointed out that at least 4 emails that passed through her server contained confidential emails at the time they were sent/received. My objection was to the headline of 41 emails marked classified were in her email release when many of them became classified after the fact. I stand by that.

I understand. You want to parse IS to deflect the gross mishandling of confidential information.

Wow, the State Department said it was OK for him to hold them. THOSE were her people. The nuts didn't fall far from the tree did they?

I don't know about you but once upon a time I held both Top Secret and NATO Top Secret Clearances. How she and her staff handled documents isn't how it's done.

 

[phgreek]

The Right's Favorite Scare Word

see, you always knew, or had a conception of the meaning...which is why this article probably resonated with you....

 

[pkt77242]

I understand. You want to parse IS to deflect the gross mishandling of confidential information.

Wow, the State Department said it was OK for him to hold them. THOSE were her people. The nuts didn't fall far from the tree did they?

I don't know about you but once upon a time I held both Top Secret and NATO Top Secret Clearances. How she and her staff handled documents isn't how it's done.

Nope but you can keep thinking that if it helps you to sleep at night. I have already stated in this thread that she mishandled confidential information (we hopefully will get a final confirmation of that after they inspect her server). I even linked an article that pointed out 4 secret or higher documents that she mishandled. My original post that you responded too was about the fact that the number 41 in the article title was misleading because many of the documents that they cited as confidential or higher clearance weren't designated that until after she handled them. I am not arguing her innocence or not, I am pointing out that the article title is misleading and that once the article was read it paints a different picture.

 

[GoIrish41]

Please elaborate.....I would love to know who you are making this statement about and why.

Trump and Cruz because, well, they are Trump and Cruz.

 

[connor_in]

To be fair whose "facts" were you pointing out?

Hillary's alleged story or the interpretation of two Brit news outlets?

She still has the responsibility to secure government documents in a proper environment. A Locked safe, encryption, and personnel with the appropriate clearances to handle such documents come to mind. Three thumb drives in her non-cleared attorney's office is non-compliant.

So "what does it matter, anyway?"Right?

The inspector general determined that there were confidential documents that came in and went through her system according to the ABC News story.

Clinton Relents, Gives up Possession of Private Email Server - ABC News

Sorry but while reading this, all I could think of was...

 

[connor_in]

Nope but you can keep thinking that if it helps you to sleep at night. I have already stated in this thread that she mishandled confidential information (we hopefully will get a final confirmation of that after they inspect her server). I even linked an article that pointed out 4 secret or higher documents that she mishandled. My original post that you responded too was about the fact that the number 41 in the article title was misleading because many of the documents that they cited as confidential or higher clearance weren't designated that until after she handled them. I am not arguing her innocence or not, I am pointing out that the article title is misleading and that once the article was read it paints a different picture.

Here's the thing, even if we go by your standard that only 4 were classified. That is of the ones she had printed out. We do not know if there were any more before she wiped the servers.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Sorry but while reading this, all I could think of was...

What is he saying in the gif? It sure doesn't look like "lockbox" to me...though I know he said it a lot (BTW, he was right ).

 

[Cackalacky]

Can some of you CPAs verify this. Its making the facebook rounds.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Can some of you CPAs verify this. Its making the facebook rounds.

I'm not a CPA and I'm a liberal. I'm sure there's some truth to the meme. But I doubt the actual numbers are accurate or all that easy to calculate.

 

[GoIrish41]

Can some of you CPAs verify this. Its making the facebook rounds.

The link at the bottom in small print takes you to a page with more information. Of course, I don't know if that information is accurate either.

Add It Up: The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

 

[ozzman]

Shocker! HRC sent classified information. She should be going to jail, not a candidate for president. Note: linked PDF is UNCLASSIFIED without attachments.

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/site...s on Personal thumb drive. Clinton server.pdf

 

[GoIrish41]

Shocker! HRC sent classified information. She should be going to jail, not a candidate for president. Note: linked PDF is UNCLASSIFIED without attachments.
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/site...s on Personal thumb drive. Clinton server.pdf

Not according to its markings.

 

[wizards8507]

Can some of you CPAs verify this. Its making the facebook rounds.

I'm not a CPA and I'm a liberal. I'm sure there's some truth to the meme. But I doubt the actual numbers are accurate or all that easy to calculate.

I haven't seen a single person say they're okay with corporate subsidies. No oil, farm, bank, labor, manufacturing, media, or any other subsidies.

Separately, I'm a CPA (though not a tax specialist) and I can tell you that those numbers are based on a misunderstanding of what a corporate subsidy actually is. Corporate subsidies are very rarely actual cash payments to corporations. Rather, they usually take the form of tax cuts and tax incentives. In other words, taxpayers aren't "paying" corporations, the corporations are just keeping more of their own money to begin with. Those figures also likely include farm subsidies, and lefties love them some farm subsidies.

 

[wizards8507]

POLLING NEWS

Poll: Bernie Sanders surges ahead of Hillary Clinton in N.H., 44-37 | Boston Herald

Time to panic?

 

[ozzman]

Not according to its markings.

At first, I thought that, too. Look at the last line above the classification marking on page 1.

 

[RDU Irish]

Wow - you people buy this garbage?

for starters, the Medicare number is 0.47% of $50,000. Your Medicare portion of FICA is 1.45%. But wait! Those evil corporations pay another 1.45% on your behalf (or for self employed folks they cover both halves) so the TOTAL FOR MEDICARE is 2.9% of income - but somehow they claim you are only paying 0.47%.

Family of four making $50k probably pays $0 in income taxes ($25k+ deductions/exemptions + $2000 child tax credit). But they are somehow credited with the corporate subsidy costs? Bunk

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Wow - you people buy this garbage?

for starters, the Medicare number is 0.47% of $50,000. Your Medicare portion of FICA is 1.45%. But wait! Those evil corporations pay another 1.45% on your behalf (or for self employed folks they cover both halves) so the TOTAL FOR MEDICARE is 2.9% of income - but somehow they claim you are only paying 0.47%.

Family of four making $50k probably pays $0 in income taxes ($25k+ deductions/exemptions + $2000 child tax credit). But they are somehow credited with the corporate subsidy costs? Bunk

You didn't really read what anyone wrote. No one said they bought anything. I actually said that I didn't think the numbers are probably accurate. But corporate subsidies are a real thing that even Wizards doesn't like.

 

[RDU Irish]

Cack was asking for verification and you "doubt" it - you guys sound like philosophy PhDs in defending your stance on issues but throw a couple numbers on the table and you become instantly flummoxed.

 

[RDU Irish]

End of the day - the complete economic illiteracy of our country will be our downfall.

I guess the last election should sum it up - if Mitt Romney, a successful business man of moderate leaning cannot beat a completely unqualified, empty suit of the most liberal bent - we are fuuuuuucccckkkkeeeddd.

 

[pkt77242]

Shocker! HRC sent classified information. She should be going to jail, not a candidate for president. Note: linked PDF is UNCLASSIFIED without attachments.

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/site...s on Personal thumb drive. Clinton server.pdf

David Petraeus laughs at that, prison time.

Remember him. He who took home classified information and gave it to his lover. Yep he got 2 years probation and a 100K fine. Petraeus sentenced: 2 years probation; $100K fine - CNNPolitics.com

I am not saying that there shouldn't be some punishment for her after the investigation is through but unless some much bigger comes out jail time seems hard to believe based off of how Patraeus' case was handled.

 

[GoIrish41]

I haven't seen a single person say they're okay with corporate subsidies. No oil, farm, bank, labor, manufacturing, media, or any other subsidies.

Separately, I'm a CPA (though not a tax specialist) and I can tell you that those numbers are based on a misunderstanding of what a corporate subsidy actually is. Corporate subsidies are very rarely actual cash payments to corporations. Rather, they usually take the form of tax cuts and tax incentives. In other words, taxpayers aren't "paying" corporations, the corporations are just keeping more of their own money to begin with. Those figures also likely include farm subsidies, and lefties love them some farm subsidies.

That is some serious spin. They might not be receiving cash, but they are certainly paying less than their fair share, leaving everyone else to make up the difference. I'm no CPA, but it all has the same effect, doesn't it? The little guy is paying more so corporations can keep more of "their own money".

Also, while nobody might have said they are okay with corporate subsidies, they are NEVER the subsidies that the right goes after when they demand spending cuts. They always go after personal entitlements, again favoring a shift of the burden to the little guy in favor of the rich.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

End of the day - the complete economic illiteracy of our country will be our downfall.

I guess the last election should sum it up - if Mitt Romney, a successful business man of moderate leaning cannot beat a completely unqualified, empty suit of the most liberal bent - we are fuuuuuucccckkkkeeeddd.

I bet you're fun at parties.

 

[wizards8507]

David Petraeus laughs at that, prison time.

Remember him. He who took home classified information and gave it to his lover. Yep he got 2 years probation and a 100K fine. Petraeus sentenced: 2 years probation; $100K fine - CNNPolitics.com

I am not saying that there shouldn't be some punishment for her after the investigation is through but unless some much bigger comes out jail time seems hard to believe based off of how Patraeus' case was handled.

That's your argument? A past case was botched so we should botch Hillary's case as well, just to be even?

 

[ozzman]

That's your argument? A past case was botched so we should botch Hillary's case as well, just to be even?

Patraeus should've gotten jail time, too. He also plead guilty. HRC has been defiant as possible.

 

[Cackalacky]

Thanks RDU. That is what I was looking for. FTR I don't buy that picture. Crap like that pops up on Facebook and catches like wildfire.

Any info on the SNAP and other welfare "taxes?"

 

[pkt77242]

Here's the thing, even if we go by your standard that only 4 were classified. That is of the ones she had printed out. We do not know if there were any more before she wiped the servers.

Yes, and I posted this last night.

It is good that she turned over the servers so that it can be investigated.

Her servers should be investigated to see what they can find. I will add that if she was picking what emails to print out why include the 4 classified ones? Why not include zero classified ones?

 

[Wild Bill]

Everyone hates so called corporate subsidies unless it's their own state or local government handing it out to keep their employer from packing up and leaving.

 

[wizards8507]

That is some serious spin. They might not be receiving cash, but they are certainly paying less than their fair share, leaving everyone else to make up the difference. I'm no CPA, but it all has the same effect, doesn't it?

Also, while nobody might have said they are okay with corporate subsidies, they are NEVER the subsidies that the right goes after when they demand spending cuts. They always go after personal entitlements, again favoring a shift of the burden to the little guy in favor of the rich.

What do you think a corporation is? Who gets screwed by corporate taxation? Employees, customers, and owners (i.e. pension and 401(k) holders).

Example: Let's imagine a tax-free world wherein my employer and I negotiate and believe I'm worth $100,000 per year. Great. I now make $100,0000.

Scenario 1: The government imposes a 10% personal income tax on individual taxpayers. I end up with $90,000 in take-home pay on a base salary of $100,000.

Scenario 2: The government imposes a 10% payroll tax on corporations. My employer had determined that they are willing to spend $100,000 to employ me, but now 10% of that will have to go to the government. I end up with $90,000 in take-home pay on a base salary of $90,000. There's an implicit tax on my earnings because a free market would say I'm really "worth" $100,000.

This example shows the relationship between corporations and employees via payroll taxes, but the same can be illustrated for the corporation-shareholder relationship (income taxes) and the corporation-customer relationship (production taxes, sales taxes, etc).

So who really pays for corporate taxation?

ETA: I hate corporate subsidies because they create corruption when special interests are able to buy politicians into creating loopholes and special tax treatments, but it has nothing to do with "big business" versus the "little guy." Big business is just a bunch of little guys all glued together. I think we should eliminate corporate income taxation entirely, which would benefit everyone.

Any info on the SNAP and other welfare "taxes?"

A lot of those programs are federally mandated but state-run so it would be near impossible to track through federal income taxation.

 

[pkt77242]

That's your argument? A past case was botched so we should botch Hillary's case as well, just to be even?

I never said she shouldn't be punished, but what was in her emails seems to be less damaging then the multiple notebooks he gave to Broadwell.

Petraeus pled guilty in March to one federal charge for giving 5-by-8 inch black notebooks containing some classified information to Broadwell, who wrote "All in: The Education of General David Petraeus" in 2012.

Those notebooks included notes from national security meetings, the identities of covert officers and more classified documents.

Patraeus should've gotten jail time, too. He also plead guilty. HRC has been defiant as possible.

If this goes to court, it will matter what kind of plea she can reach. I would assume that she could reach a similar plea as Petraeus.