'11 CA DE/OT Troy Niklas (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

[wizards8507]

In no way am I saying that this is what I want. It is simply the cost of doing business. When you have top notch players this is going to happen. I would rather have this problem than players that don't really have the option to leave and have to stay all 4 years. Again, I wish everyone would exhaust their eligibility, but that just isn't going to happen so we have to accept this for what it is.

The guy I quoted literally said that this is what he's wanted all along.

So what is the big deal?

If you want every player to stay for 4 years and get their degree.....good luck with that. Enjoy the slide back to mediocrity. All other academic institutions (including Duke and Coach K) handle players leaving early just fine.

Basketball and football aren't even close to the same animal. Plus, we had guys leaving early even when we WERE mediocre. That's the thing that pisses me off. People act like it has to be a trade-off between academics and athletics. It doesn't. We can be shitty at both. We can excel at both.

 

[Emcee77]

I have no idea why anyone would be mad that a kid submitted a draft evaluation and, when he got it back, made a thoughtful, considered decision to enter the draft. The consternation and dismay in this thread are totally unwarranted. Niklas's draft eval came back higher than he thought, he talked it over with his family and with people he knows in the league, and he decided to follow every kid's dream and give the NFL a shot. Myron Rolle, a freaking Rhodes scholar, put medical school on hold for a shot at the NFL. Why shouldn't Niklas put college on hold? As I was saying about Atkinson, this isn't a poor kid who can't afford to finish college without his scholarship, right?

I'm not saying I'd have made the same decision as Niklas, but I see absolutely no reason for any concern broader than just that we lost our starting TE. It's his decision, it was clearly based on lots of research and hard thinking, and I say good luck to him.

 

[Cackalacky]

The guy I quoted literally said that this is what he's wanted all along.


Basketball and football aren't even close to the same animal. Plus, we had guys leaving early even when we WERE mediocre. That's the thing that pisses me off. People act like it has to be a trade-off between academics and athletics. It doesn't. We can be shitty at both. We can excel at both.

Possibly. But with the three year rule for the NFL and NDs 5th year program make that less likely....

We will have to graduate Juniors and RS Sophmores that are extremely talented to keep up that 97% grad rate and that will be tough.

 

[ND NYC]

i just fear he may have made a hasty and worse, poor decision based on bad info. telling a kid what they want to hear not what they need to hear.
i almost feel like Troy told his dad how shocked he was with the original late 2nd at best more likely 3rd or 4th round grade, so his dad played the fixer seeing his sons disappointment, and downloads an "NFL Agent for Dummies" book, makes some calls to Rees old man, and they convince themselves while sitting at their kitchen table eating some in and out burgers that he is clearly a second rounder.

by the way appears Kelly, coaches were never even brought into this new decision making process that took place in Cali...they only informed Kelly of the decision based on what they think/thought they knew after it had been made. that just doesnt sit well with me.

p.s. only Kelly gets to decide whether or not ND was "left us in the lurch" with this unforeseen, decision not Troy.

 

[ab2cmiller]

i think when Clausen was given his draft grade he probably bought some Florida Swampland with it! Worst of all time has to be Darius Walker, what the flip was he doing leaving early..

If I recall correctly, Walker was coming off a pretty good year and a very good bowl game. I believe he thought his chances of making the NFL would never be very high, but given his performance that year and specifically the bowl game, he thought it gave him the best chance to make the league. His stock was as probably as high as it was ever going to get given his lack of NFL speed and his size. He made a calculated move that he thought gave him the best shot. He got his shot, came back and got his degree and all is well.

 

[wizards8507]

I have no idea why anyone would be mad that a kid submitted a draft evaluation and, when he got it back, made a thoughtful, considered decision to enter the draft. The consternation and dismay in this thread are totally unwarranted. Niklas's draft eval came back higher than he thought, he talked it over with his family and with people he knows in the league, and he decided to follow every kid's dream and give the NFL a shot. Myron Rolle, a freaking Rhodes scholar, put medical school on hold for a shot at the NFL. Why shouldn't Niklas put college on hold? As I was saying about Atkinson, this isn't a poor kid who can't afford to finish college without his scholarship, right?

I'm not saying I'd have made the same decision as Niklas, but I see absolutely no reason for any concern broader than just that we lost our starting TE. It's his decision, it was clearly based on lots of research and hard thinking, and I say good luck to him.

I'll try to recap since work is slow. Most of us who are scratching our heads aren't doing so because a guy thinks he'll be drafted highly so he declared for the NFL. The "thing that makes me go 'hmmm'" is his repeated insistence since, what, December 21? that he would be staying. This included an "I'm staying" literally one day before he declares for the draft. None of the "number crunching" they talk about represents a change that would happen in 24 hours.

 

[TK22867]

The guy I quoted literally said that this is what he's wanted all along.


Basketball and football aren't even close to the same animal. Plus, we had guys leaving early even when we WERE mediocre. That's the thing that pisses me off. People act like it has to be a trade-off between academics and athletics. It doesn't. We can be shitty at both. We can excel at both.

As far as academia goes, why not?

I'll just bite my tongue on excelling at both football and academia (on the football team, not university-wide).

 

[Wild Bill]

I'll try to recap since work is slow. Most of us who are scratching our heads aren't doing so because a guy thinks he'll be drafted highly so he declared for the NFL. The "thing that makes me go 'hmmm'" is his repeated insistence since, what, December 21? that he would be staying. This included an "I'm staying" literally one day before he declares for the draft. None of the "number crunching" they talk about represents a change that would happen in 24 hours.

A 21 year old mind can sway swiftly, especially when we're talking about millions.

 

[wizards8507]

As far as academia goes, why not?

I'll just bite my tongue on excelling at both football and academia (on the football team, not university-wide).

The NBA has put universities in an impossible situation. The NFL rules at least fake like school matters. Personally, I'd love to see both professional leagues allowed to recruit and sign whomever they want so that the guys who are faking their way through school just skip school entirely. The entire college athletics system would be nothing but RKGs.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

A 21 year old mind can sway swiftly, especially when we're talking about millions.

Yeah, and that's not just a 21 year-old thing, that's a human thing.

 

[ND NYC]

I have no idea why anyone would be mad that a kid submitted a draft evaluation and, when he got it back, made a thoughtful, considered decision to enter the draft. The consternation and dismay in this thread are totally unwarranted. Niklas's draft eval came back higher than he thought, he talked it over with his family and with people he knows in the league, and he decided to follow every kid's dream and give the NFL a shot. Myron Rolle, a freaking Rhodes scholar, put medical school on hold for a shot at the NFL. Why shouldn't Niklas put college on hold? As I was saying about Atkinson, this isn't a poor kid who can't afford to finish college without his scholarship, right?

I'm not saying I'd have made the same decision as Niklas, but I see absolutely no reason for any concern broader than just that we lost our starting TE. It's his decision, it was clearly based on lots of research and hard thinking, and I say good luck to him.

my take:
i think it was worse (but more than likely accurate) than he thought it would be.
so, Troy and his family, on their own, decided to get a "second opinion" (without NDs knowledge btw. bad form IMO).
bnch of people they're close with (Rees, local training guys) tell their good friend "dude they dont know squat, your a second rounder, no doubt about it"

and here we are...

 

[wizards8507]

A 21 year old mind can sway swiftly, especially when we're talking about millions.

This reads like a fickle 21-year old to you? I read it like an ego/money play by his father.

 

[Emcee77]

I'll try to recap since work is slow. Most of us who are scratching our heads aren't doing so because a guy thinks he'll be drafted highly so he declared for the NFL. The "thing that makes me go 'hmmm'" is his repeated insistence since, what, December 21? that he would be staying. This included an "I'm staying" literally one day before he declares for the draft. None of the "number crunching" they talk about represents a change that would happen in 24 hours.

Thanks for the explanation. I get where you are coming from, at least.

Imho, that's tinfoil hat stuff, though. Troy thought he was staying while he did his due diligence by carefully and conscientiously analyzing the problem, and then suddenly he realized that, after going through the analysis, he was coming to a different conclusion than the one he thought he would come to. Rhode or Whiskey or Pops or any lawyer on this board will tell you that it happens all the time: sometimes, you expect to reach one conclusion until you actually do the research and analysis and realize that you've come to the opposite conclusion.

 

[wizards8507]

Imho, that's tinfoil hat stuff, though. Troy thought he was staying while he did his due diligence by carefully and conscientiously analyzing the problem, and then suddenly he realized that, after going through the analysis, he was coming to a different conclusion than the one he thought he would come to.

I get it, and that might be fair. I just think it's an integrity thing at that point. If you're doing your "due dilligence," don't say pretty definitively "I'm staying." Say "I'm doing my due dilligence so we'll see."

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

When you get quality recruits this is going to happen. I think we all can agree to wish him the best. #nextmanin

 

[Wild Bill]

This reads like a fickle 21-year old to you? I read it like an ego/money play by his father.

Yes, it's a reasonable explanation.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think it really comes down to what Louis Nix went through this year. If Nix had come out last year he would have been a top 10 pick. This year Nix suffered through many injuries and missed the last 3 games of the season. He was double and tripled team every snap and was getting beat up all game long. He was also under the microscope and took some criticism for some poor performance from the media, scouts and fans. Most important he went from a top 10 pick to a top 32 pick.

So using Nix as an example I can't blame Troy for leaving at all.

To me this and losing coordinators is just a sign of, dare I say, an elite program.

Most importantly you will see Ben Koyacks potential. Ben will be a more productive receiver next year than Troy was this past season.

 

[Wild Bill]

Most importantly you will see Ben Koyacks potential. Ben will be a more productive receiver next year than Troy was this past season.

He'll be productive as a receiver, I agree, but he won't give us the same type of flexibility in the running game. Troy was the key to our running game. He could do anything on the field with respect to run blocking - pin defensive ends without help, destroy linebackers, kick out corners and get down field to the safeties. Our double tight set would have been ridiculous this year these two.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Personally, I did not see amazing NFL production when I viewed him this year. Our prior TEs had it all over the screen. They were huge when it came to production and definately players that the offense was wrapped around. I did not see this with Niklas. I am not saying that he could not have become that go to talent in 2015. Lord knows he has the physical aspects and all kinds of potential to be a NFL talent but this decision has me scratching my head. I cannot imagine why he would not take another year and improve. 2012 wasnt a great productive year for him and 2013 did not light the sky on fire like some of our prior pro TEs did. This to me does not make sense. A more efficient QB in 2014makes for bigger numbers to wow scouts. What is the rush to go? I cant see the lure here.

 

[Wild Bill]

Personally, I did not see amazing NFL production when I viewed him this year. Our prior TEs had it all over the screen. They were huge when it came to production and definately players that the offense was wrapped around. I did not see this with Niklas. I am not saying that he could not have become that go to talent in 2015. Lord knows he has the physical aspects and all kinds of potential to be a NFL talent but this decision has me scratching my head. I cannot imagine why he would not take another year and improve. 2012 wasnt a great productive year for him and 2013 did not light the sky on fire like some of our prior pro TEs did. This to me does not make sense. A more efficient QB in 2014makes for bigger numbers to wow scouts. What is the rush to go? I cant see the lure here.

I guarantee opposing defensive coordinators had him keyed the entire game, and probably wondered silently why he wasn't utilized more often in the pass game.

He's enormous, blocks like savage and is an above average athlete. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he does better than expected on his 40 and cone drills. If he does, GMs will be drooling over him.

 

[JughedJones]

Hilarious stuff on Rome today.

He talked about Troy announcing and re-played his pep-rally rant where he ripped his shirt off.. over and over.

Said Slayer was going to be at the Draft when Troy gets picked. Had me rolling.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

About Troy :

Everything his dad said pointed to it being an all business decision. They are Mathews, after all. The have had two branches from the same family, and three generations excel in the NFL after all. It has to be a boy child's life goal. So I believe Troy is a one of one.

I believe the business decision is the right one. Troy is the quintessential beef-crust kind of guy that makes a franchise work. Guys like Troy will never get the flashy signing bonuses, but will get the pay based upon productivity. Troy will be just about the best at what he does. Good luck, Troy!

All that being said, Troy really fvcked ND with his timing. If I were Alex Welch I would be piiiissssssseeeddd-off!

 

[ND NYC]

I think it really comes down to what Louis Nix went through this year. If Nix had come out last year he would have been a top 10 pick. This year Nix suffered through many injuries and missed the last 3 games of the season. He was double and tripled team every snap and was getting beat up all game long. He was also under the microscope and took some criticism for some poor performance from the media, scouts and fans. Most important he went from a top 10 pick to a top 32 pick.

So using Nix as an example I can't blame Troy for leaving at all.To me this and losing coordinators is just a sign of, dare I say, an elite program.

Most importantly you will see Ben Koyacks potential. Ben will be a more productive receiver next year than Troy was this past season.

just dont see the Niklas/Nix analogy holding Sherm.
for it to be valid than Niklas would have had to been forecasted to be a Top 10 pick after this year like Nix was last year.
he wasnt. Troy was given between 2nd and 4th round grade by impartial observers, not friends and family. plus Troy stood only to improve not go down (see Eifert, T) and you are saying NIX has/will decrease by having stayed the extra year.
Nix just isnt the right guy or circumstances to bring up as an expample of whether or not you feel he made the right move here. to be sure, you can/should "not blame Troy" for making the move thats your perogative, but i dont think bringing big Lou's move into the conversation to justify it holds water.

 

[ndfi78]

Some of you truly baffle me... I honestly wonder why I bother coming to this board at times.

OMG, DOOM AND GLOOM!

Good programs have players leave early. We want to be a good program, be a consistently winning program competing for NC's, with this comes early departures to the NFL. While Niklas' decision surprised me, I can't say I disagree with his reasoning. I wish him the best.

 

[ulukinatme]

Hilarious stuff on Rome today.

He talked about Troy announcing and re-played his pep-rally rant where he ripped his shirt off.. over and over.

Said Slayer was going to be at the Draft when Troy gets picked. Had me rolling.

Ahhhh...the offseason....I live for this. YOU HAVE TO LOVE THE PAIN!!!!

7:00 mark:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/VLNUHfDhqaI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've only gotten to a couple pep rallies the last few years, but this one was pretty decent from top to bottom, even if it left my ears ringing.

 

[alohagoirish]

Troy will be remembered fondly for all his accomplishments on the field. His 30 some catches and 400 plus yards that were rarely meaningful.

Sarcasm yes, Troy will be best known as the guy who did the absolute least of any player that has left early . Beyond a few seam routes and a few nice blocks Troy is really best known for his size then his play.

I think the second round evaluation is an absolute joke.

I root for all our ND kids in the draft and beyond but I have to admit in this case I think his leaving was ill advised. I expect TROY to go no sooner then the fourth round and just as likely the 5th round and I won't be very sad for him if that happens. Its a poor precedent to have players leaving on potential rather then achievement.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think we've been spoiled with guys like Carlson, Fasano, Rudolph, and Eifert that all put up great numbers for a TE before they decided to try the NFL. While Troy had some decent numbers, I think he could have stayed another year and put up similar numbers to those guys and elevated his status.

 

[Veer option]

Just heard about him leaving on Jim Rome. I think its a big mistake. kid needs at least another year to develop into a monster. He made a couple nice plays this season but wasn't exactly overpowering in any segment of his game.

 

[SaltyND24]

Question...did we flip out when Golden declared after 3yrs? I wasn't around so I'm not entirely sure but I can't imagine there was that much uproar. Now, I know Golden was a Biletnikoff winner, but I felt he wasn't anywhere near ready to leave when he did. He had a few holes in his game and really could've used another year, which ultimately improved his draft stock. I'm not sure many of you remember that there was serious noise that he may be cut early in his career due to these holes in his game and it wasn't until this year that he seemingly has put it all together...Let's hold off one whether this was a smart/dumb decision for Troy for a few years..

 

[Emcee77]

Question...did we flip out when Golden declared after 3yrs? I wasn't around so I'm not entirely sure but I can't imagine there was that much uproar. Now, I know Golden was a Biletnikoff winner, but I felt he wasn't anywhere near ready to leave when he did. He had a few holes in his game and really could've used another year, which ultimately improved his draft stock. I'm not sure many of you remember that there was serious noise that he may be cut early in his career due to these holes in his game and it wasn't until this year that he seemingly has put it all together...Let's hold off one whether this was a smart/dumb decision for Troy for a few years..

Huge difference was that Golden Tate went pro after his coach was fired. I wouldn't want to stick around for the first year of a new regime either, after winning the Biletnikoff.

No doubt Golden still had room to improve when he came out, but he had been electrifying that year. Seriously probably the most exciting player I've ever seen. He wasn't going to improve his draft stock. Darius Walker, kind of similar. He balled out in the Sugar Bowl against LSU (may have been the only player who did), showed a top gear he hadn't previously shown, and his draft stock wasn't going to improve, especially considering his limited athleticism.

I think Troy has more room to improve than either of those players, no question. But if your point is just that it is probably unfair to judge Troy too harshly for this decision right now, then I get it and I agree.