A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishLion]

Ugh my least-preferred endgame is a Dany and Jon team-up. Just no. It's corny as hell and it's also asymmetrical.

I agree. But if she's coming home to make her rightful claim, and Jon's parentage is really the big deal that we all think it is, then that makes the most sense.

Why would his parentage matter, if it didn't mean that he could team up with Dany and form a very clear and legitimate claim for the Iron Throne?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wun Wun ain't simple bruh. I'll be contacting the Wildling Civil Liberties Union in short order.

I don't know how it works, that's just what I desire. He's been stashed away for a rainy day.

Once Dany and Jon have it out with/against the Night's King and the Others, and all Seven Kingdoms have been devastated by the fight for life against the horrors of the Long Winter, the surviving Northerners will bring him to light and announce him as King in the North, and the rest of the realm will realize that he is the unbiased, untouched son of an honorable Lord, and they will sing his praises and accept his claim as King in the North, and then clamor for him to lead the entire realm as Spring blossoms.

He's going to return atop a unicorn, with Shaggydog at his side, leading an army of Skagosi cannibals. Long live King Rickon!

 

[wizards8507]

Why would his parentage matter, if it didn't mean that he could team up with Dany and form a very clear and legitimate claim for the Iron Throne?

Dragon rider, perhaps? He has no claim. Even if R + L = J, he's still Jon Sand, bastard.

 

[Irish YJ]

Ugh my least-preferred endgame is a Dany and Jon team-up. Just no. It's corny as hell and it's also asymmetrical.

They are Ice and Fire, and cousins lol

 

[IrishLion]

Dragon rider, perhaps? He has no claim. Even if R + L = J, he's still Jon Sand, bastard.

Anybody could be a dragon rider, no? Or do they need a Targ connection? Who would be her third, in that case?

Also, even if he is a bastard, he still has Targ blood, and would automatically become Dany's best bet for a powerful and yet not-a-douchebag husband. We all know Targs loved their bastards and their families to an unhealthy degree. Except Viserys. He didn't love anything.

 

[IrishLion]

He's going to return atop a unicorn, with Shaggydog at his side, leading an army of Skagosi cannibals. Long live King Rickon!

Don't forget that he'll be traveling through the Mists of Avalon, and that the Children of the Forest will dance in his wake, bringing joy to all things that they touch.

 

[IrishLax]

1. Arya. I'll be devastated if she doesn't get to live out her revenge fantasy behind her powers as a Faceless Ma, and also if Nymeria doesn't become part of her assassin repertoire once she's back in Westeros.

One thing that has always been very interesting to me is that I don't know how they reconcile the Faceless Men being all about becoming "no one" and the fact that Arya's Revenge Tour is all about her very personal hit list.

Seems like either she is going to have to quit her training or get kicked out or something... or the Faceless Men maybe have some ulterior motives we don't know yet.

 

[Emcee77]

Anybody could be a dragon rider, no? Or do they need a Targ connection? Who would be her third, in that case?

Also, even if he is a bastard, he still has Targ blood, and would automatically become Dany's best bet for a powerful and yet not-a-douchebag husband. We all know Targs loved their bastards and their families to an unhealthy degree. Except Viserys. He didn't love anything.

Right, having some Targ blood is apparently the key to dragon-riding, although it's apparently a necessary but not sufficient condition. In one of the GRRM prequel short stories, the Targs are undermanned and outgunned in a civil war, and they recruit all the previously unrecognized and unacknowledged Targ bastards of Dragonstone and Driftmark to try to ride riderless dragons. Many die in the attempt but some succeed.

 

[Irish YJ]

Anybody could be a dragon rider, no? Or do they need a Targ connection? Who would be her third, in that case?

Also, even if he is a bastard, he still has Targ blood, and would automatically become Dany's best bet for a powerful and yet not-a-douchebag husband. We all know Targs loved their bastards and their families to an unhealthy degree. Except Viserys. He didn't love anything.

The stuff I have read mostly suggests Tyrion.

 

[woolybug25]

Anybody could be a dragon rider, no? Or do they need a Targ connection? Who would be her third, in that case?

Also, even if he is a bastard, he still has Targ blood, and would automatically become Dany's best bet for a powerful and yet not-a-douchebag husband. We all know Targs loved their bastards and their families to an unhealthy degree. Except Viserys. He didn't love anything.

The article I posted earlier had this comment:

There’s a part of the prophecy that says “the dragon has three heads,” and many take that to mean Azor Ahai will actually be three people—probably the three dragon riders. So that means Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, and, oh yes, probably Tyrion Lannister will together form the prophesied savior. Hey, if we’re going for Jesus analogies, why not go for the whole trinity? And Jon and Dany together form, you guessed it, a song of ice and fire.

 

[IrishLion]

The stuff I have read mostly suggests Tyrion.

Right, but he's not a Targ, which is why I ask where her third rider would come from.*




*Of course there is a theory with decent evidence that he IS a Targ, but let's assume that he is not.

 

[Irish YJ]

Right, but he's not a Targ, which is why I ask where her third rider would come from.*




*Of course there is a theory with decent evidence that he IS a Targ, but let's assume that he is not.

The Mad King had the hots for his mom, correct?

 

[wizards8507]

They are Ice and Fire, and cousins lol

Jon is Ice and Fire. Dany is just Fire. Jon and Dany together would be Ice and Fire and Fire.

Anybody could be a dragon rider, no? Or do they need a Targ connection? Who would be her third, in that case?

There's a theory (that I hate) that Tyrion is a secret Targ as well. Aerys and Joanna Lannister had some secret thing going on.

Also, even if he is a bastard, he still has Targ blood, and would automatically become Dany's best bet for a powerful and yet not-a-douchebag husband. We all know Targs loved their bastards and their families to an unhealthy degree. Except Viserys. He didn't love anything.

My "bastard" point was about any claim he'd have or not have to the Iron Throne.

 

[woolybug25]

Right, but he's not a Targ, which is why I ask where her third rider would come from.*




*Of course there is a theory with decent evidence that he IS a Targ, but let's assume that he is not.

Allz about the dragon riding:

Game of Thrones: Who Will Ride the Other Dragons? | Vanity Fair

But isn’t Dany the last Targaryen? (R.I.P. Maester Aemon) Ah, no. Hadn’t you heard? The Westeros of the books is lousy with secret Targaryens. There’s Dany’s nephew Aegon (who we suspect to be a fraud), Jon Snow (surely you’ve heard of R+L=J by now), and, of course, Tyrion himself. Most people believe Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, and Daenerys Targaryen are the three fabled dragon riders of A Song of Ice and Fire. There are other candidates including Bran Stark (who could warg into a dragon) or Varys (another potential secret Targaryen), but it seems likely that the three dragon riders will be three main characters. (Sorry, Bran.)

That’s fine for the book readers, but is there any show evidence to back this up? Well, the dubious parentage of both Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister have been hinted at in the show. The story of Jon’s presumed parents, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, was all over the place this season, and when he was alive Tywin was forever going on about Tyrion not really being a Lannister.

But the most compelling argument for Jon, Tyrion, and Dany to be our three dragon riders came in Season 2, Episode 10, during the House of the Undying scene. In this dream-like sequence we see Dany visit three very significant places. Since the House of the Undying scene is much longer and more involved in the books—and contains that line about the dragon having three heads—many believe the HBO series boiled the vision down to its most salient point. In other words, the three locations of the dream—the Wall, the throne room, Khal Drogo’s tent—represent the three dragon riders. The Wall clearly stands for Jon Snow; the tent is for Dany; and the throne room is for Tyrion. Your mileage may vary on this interpretation, but that one is pretty tidy.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Dragon rider, perhaps? He has no claim. Even if R + L = J, he's still Jon Sand, bastard.

If Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped before the Tower of Joy, then Jon is legitimate, and his claim is superior to Dany's.

One thing that has always been very interesting to me is that I don't know how they reconcile the Faceless Men being all about becoming "no one" and the fact that Arya's Revenge Tour is all about her very personal hit list.

Seems like either she is going to have to quit her training or get kicked out or something... or the Faceless Men maybe have some ulterior motives we don't know yet.

In the books, she seems to have hood-winked the Faceless Men by mastering their arts without fully giving up her identity. But HBO has altered the order of events for Arya in important ways, so that question definitely becomes more pressing for show-watchers.

 

[Emcee77]

One thing that has always been very interesting to me is that I don't know how they reconcile the Faceless Men being all about becoming "no one" and the fact that Arya's Revenge Tour is all about her very personal hit list.

Seems like either she is going to have to quit her training or get kicked out or something... or the Faceless Men maybe have some ulterior motives we don't know yet.

Oh yeah, I agree. It's one of the most interesting storylines in the show. Arya has this opportunity to get all the training she needs to take the revenge she craves, but the training requires her to give up her identity, which would obviate the need for revenge. Beautiful conundrum.

 

[Grahambo]

I'm guessing he's just intentionally misleading people.

Not sure how accurate this is but I read the other day how Kit Harrington is contracted for at least the next two seasons. Don't know if that's a simple cover up but I think its fait to say, he ain't dead.

How would people rank the veritably alive characters in terms of "give a shit" if they die? Here's my top 5:
1. Tyrion
2. Bronn

That's it. Honestly don't care about anyone else.

1. Jon
2. Tyrion
3. Varys
4. Bronn

 

[IrishLion]

The show makes me think that Jaqen knows she won't give up her motivation. His blinding her seems to me like a "eff it, I'll try to make her forget as best I can but YOLO."

Did she hide Needle in the show like in the books? Can't recall the scene. But Needle is the biggest sign in the books that she'll never truly give up her prayer of vengeance.

 

[GATTACA!]

That's what I'm thinking too. Or, if he doesn't appear till late in the season, they may try to smuggle him in near the end of filming. Either way, just one more dynamic to follow during the off season.

I'm not up on all the Warging abilities, but is it possible for a Warg to transition to another living person permanently? Perhaps he jumps to Olly lol

I've always thought the warging ability was a red herring. Compared to a Mel revival the warging just isn't practical. Is he stuck in ghost? Can he then jump out of ghost into someone else later? Even if that is possible how does he ever prove his legitimacy again? There would constantly be the issue of people not believing it was him because he's in a random wildlings body. plus there is now way the show is going to drop Kit Harrington and keep Jon Snow alive.

 

[Emcee77]

What was the point of the Dorne storyline. I've reserved judgment all season, but unless something big that I'm not foreseeing happens in the finale, I'll have to conclude that this season would have been better off without it.

I just remembered that I wrote this after Episode 9. Of course something big did end up happening in the finale.

Still don't think the Dorne storyline was a success, but at least now there is some justification for it.

 

[Irish YJ]

I've always thought the warging ability was a red herring. Compared to a Mel revival the warging just isn't practical. Is he stuck in ghost? Can he then jump out of ghost into someone else later? Even if that is possible how does he ever prove his legitimacy again? There would constantly be the issue of people not believing it was him because he's in a random wildlings body. plus there is now way the show is going to drop Kit Harrington and keep Jon Snow alive.

I personally think she will bring him back to life, but who knows. Maybe his mind goes to ghost, she finds his body later, then does her voodoo and his mind returns. After reading all this crap finally post finale, I wish Lady Stoneheart would come back as well.

 

[IrishLax]

The show makes me think that Jaqen knows she won't give up her motivation. His blinding her seems to me like a "eff it, I'll try to make her forget as best I can but YOLO."

Did she hide Needle in the show like in the books? Can't recall the scene. But Needle is the biggest sign in the books that she'll never truly give up her prayer of vengeance.

Yup. Couldn't throw it out with the rest of her stuff. Hid it in some rocks.

Jaqen mentoring her because of the potential even though she's a "bad fit" has a lot of parallels to the Anakin Skywalker story.

 

[IrishLax]

Not sure how accurate this is but I read the other day how Kit Harrington is contracted for at least the next two seasons. Don't know if that's a simple cover up but I think its fait to say, he ain't dead.

Yeah, apparently he is personally denying the truth of that story, but it was definitely reported and it's hard to imagine someone would report that without seeing a hard paper trail.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yeah, apparently he is personally denying the truth of that story, but it was definitely reported and it's hard to imagine someone would report that without seeing a hard paper trail.

In one of the recaps posted, it also said rumor of him already being on one of the remote locations is floating around.

 

[Grahambo]

Yeah, apparently he is personally denying the truth of that story, but it was definitely reported and it's hard to imagine someone would report that without seeing a hard paper trail.

In one of the recaps posted, it also said rumor of him already being on one of the remote locations is floating around.

In today's world, its really unfortunate because it will simply be leaked. It really will be the world's worst kept secret no matter how hard they try. Almost would've been better to fit the scene into E9 but I guess really, don't have any other choice.

 

[GATTACA!]

In today's world, its really unfortunate because it will simply be leaked. It really will be the world's worst kept secret no matter how hard they try. Almost would've been better to fit the scene into E9 but I guess really, don't have any other choice.

They would have been better off saying he's going to be in flashbacks or something.

 

[phork]

So I am thinking when they go burn the body of Jon, he is there afterward, naked and with the Red Witches help, alive and well.

Or they don't burn the body and he starts to turn into a Wight and Mel turns him back and he is now some sort of bastard conciousness.

Or Mel jumps on Jon before he goes to the Watch in the sky and has Snow baby.

 

[PLACforever]

Warg

 

[PLACforever]

 

[gkIrish]

How would people rank the veritably alive characters in terms of "give a shit" if they die? Here's my top 5:
1. Tyrion
2. Bronn

That's it. Honestly don't care about anyone else.

I'll stretch out a top ten since everyone is gone from the office:

1a. Jon if he is alive
1b. Tyrion
2. The Hound (he's alive y'all)
3. Jorah (he will definitely die though)
4. Show Bronn
5. Book Stannis
6. Book Jaime
7. Theon (yes I'm probably the only one)
8. Ghost
9. Davos
10. Littlefinger

Characters I want to die:

1. Ramsay
2. Roose
3. Khaleesi
4. Bran
5. Melisandre
6. Gregor (again)
7. Sansa
8. Jaqen H'ghar (a man must die)
9. Show Robert Arryn
10. Show Jaime