A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

Irish YJ

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My one complaint was that the combination of the Walk of Shame and Jamie's talk with Myrcella seemed to have a very "incest-is-kewl-and-shame-on-you-for-ever-thinking-otherwise" message.

Vis a vis Kit telling everyone he's off the show, it's possible that Jon's resurrection involves warging so that body really is dunzo. Or he's just full of shit.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

But what is he supposed to say. "Hey, I'm renewed for S6" lol. They start filming next month, so we'll know soon enough I guess. Media will be all over it so pretty hard to keep it a secret.

If really dead, it puts the speculation about his true parentage to bed without any fanfare.
 

Irish YJ

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Gotcha. I thought you were saying it answered the question. But it really just means the question would no longer be relevant.

Would be disappointing to me. In addition to being my favorite character, was looking forward to how it would all come to light (his parentage). While he says he's off the show, the author does say something like "oh, so you think he's dead"... Season 6!!!!!

Was also waiting on him and Dany to get freaky for another incest is kewl storyline....
 

wizards8507

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Can someone jog my memory on why Brienne serves Renly in the first place besides being infatuated with him? Someone so duty bound should have been team Mannis all the way.

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IrishLion

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Can someone jog my memory on why Brienne serves Renly in the first place besides being infatuated with him? Someone so duty bound should have been team Mannis all the way.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

He had previously shown her kindness in some way/shape/form when other men were having fun at her expense. He encouraged her to disregard them and be who she was, because that was good enough.

So everyone ostracized her for being a freakish female warrior, but Renly made her feel good about it when she needed it the most. So she fell in love and swore to serve him, probably in hopes of winning his heart some day.
 

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He had previously shown her kindness in some way/shape/form when other men were having fun at her expense. He encouraged her to disregard them and be who she was, because that was good enough.

So everyone ostracized her for being a freakish female warrior, but Renly made her feel good about it when she needed it the most. So she fell in love and swore to serve him, probably in hopes of winning his heart some day.

He danced with her IIRC
 

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That Myrcella death got me more than anything. Damn. You know her and Tommen have to die at some point... but that was just so rough.

Thought they did the Jon scene well. Also liked how they handled Theon. And Cersei.

Really, just a super well put together episode. I need the 6th book badly.

I thought most of it was good. The exception being the way they handled the Jon situation. Without the pink letter the watch really lost most of its motivation for killing him. If they were really that against letting the wildlings through they could have just not opened the gate in the first place. Nothing happened after they came through that worsened the situation. It just makes alot more sense in the book when Jon is planning on leading a wildling army south.
 

wizards8507

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What were the letters Jon was reading?

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IrishLion

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The wrong kind of badass. She's not supposed to be a "stab you hella times with a shiv" badass. She's supposed to be swift as a deer; quiet as a shadow; calm as still water.

That comes AFTER her training, now that she's blind.

I think it actually showed how messy/unready she really was.

She'll be swift as a deer, quiet as a shadow, and calm as still water after Jaqen has sculpted her further.
 

GoIrish41

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The wrong kind of badass. She's not supposed to be a "stab you hella times with a shiv" badass. She's supposed to be swift as a deer; quiet as a shadow; calm as still water.

Oh sure. But she killed that dude with a purpose. She wanted him to know who was killing him and why. She was the last person he saw before dying and she told him why it was happening. I get the whole assassin stealth thing, but this was about revenge and making the killing horrible. She can kill the insurance man like the wind, but I hope the people on the list are going to get a little special treatment. :)
 

wizards8507

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Other nitpicks:

Every single person loyal to Stannis apparently has narcolepsy because half his army rode off with ALL THE HORSES and nobody seemed to notice until the next morning.

Could Myrcella's poisoning have been any more obvious? It's going to be awkward for them when Jamie thinks "gee, do I know anyone who hates my family and is good with poisons?"

"Bad pussy," really?

Greyworm is qualified to rule Meereen because... reasons? All the Unsullied seem good for is stab-fodder.

Melissandre walked from Winterfell to The Wall in like... a day? Really? I suppose in a world where Tyrion can get to slaver's bay as a fugitive before Mace Tyrell can reach Braavos, then anything is possible.

Where the hell is Yara/Asha Greyjoy?
 

JughedJones

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I haven't read any of the books, but holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Those last two episodes were pretty damn great!
 

Huntr

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Whiskeyjack

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I don't really think warg eyes alone would be that big of a spoiler, especially because the opening chapter with 6 skins basically spells out that it will happen that way and the show needs some way of conveying that without feeling like déjà ex machina next season. There's plenty of speculating left to do if all we know is that snow goes warg eyes...

Benioff and Weis also went out of their way to work Ghost into this season by having him save Sam and Gilly a few weeks ago. Given the prohibitive cost of CGI, I'd bet that wasn't an accident. We had to be reminded that Jon's dire wolf is still around.

Credit to reddit for this but per the show....Balon Grejoy.....is the last king standing.

He may be alive now, but his odds of surviving S6 are not good. They're already in the process of casting Euron:

Pirate, man in his 40’s to late 50’s. He’s “an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. Cunning, ruthless, with a touch of madness.”
He’s a dangerous-looking man. A very good part this season.

Ser Robert Strong? That's zombie Gregor Clegane.

FrankenGregor, please. Like so many other details, I assume they had to spell it out for the Shownlies, but he was a little too obviously undead for my liking. How would Kevan, Pycelle and everyone else in the Red Keep be cool with such a hulking abomination walking around? Martin's FrankenGregor has no head, so he wears a helm which entirely obscures his visage, and it's at least somewhat plausible that he could go undetected.

My one complaint was that the combination of the Walk of Shame and Jamie's talk with Myrcella seemed to have a very "incest-is-kewl-and-shame-on-you-for-ever-thinking-otherwise" message.

Made me scoff. No one would be pleased to hear they're the product of incest. In the post-show commentary, Benioff and Weis were pretty explicit about how touching it was for Jaime to feel the joy of fatherhood, before having it all turn to grief in about 10 seconds (wakka wakka!) It's only the umpteenth time they've made some contrived change to the source material simply for the sake of emotionally sucker punching the audience. It gets tiresome.

That comes AFTER her training, now that she's blind.

I think it actually showed how messy/unready she really was.

She'll be swift as a deer, quiet as a shadow, and calm as still water after Jaqen has sculpted her further.

Agreed. They basically re-ordered the story so that her real training comes after her vengeful kill in Braavos, instead of before. Could end up working well. But Trant in GoT is obviously standing in for Raff from the Mercy TWoT sample chapter, so I get the negative reaction as well. Book readers were expecting this:

Mercy takes him back to her little room a few blocks away from the Gate, warning him they have to hurry, otherwise Mercy will miss her rape in the second act. She teases him that he could be a mummer, and that she could teach him a line to say. Once in her room, Mercy slides her finger down the inside of Raff's thigh, but when Raff insists she unlace him, Mercy tells him he's bleeding. Rafford doesn't understand, but he starts to bleed heavily, and calls for Mercy to get a healer. Mercy insists that the healer will only help those who come to him. When Rafford tells her that he can't walk, and she'll have to carry him, Mercy happily thinks to herself "See? You know your line, and so do I."

"You think so?" Arya Stark asks Rafford the Sweetling, as she takes the blade from her sleeve. She kills him, whispering "Valar Morghulis".

... but instead we got something closer to an unhinged Arya stabbing the Tickler repeatedly at the Crossroads Inn.

"Bad pussy," really?

It was worse than Ned's S1 line about fighting "a man for real". They spend so much time, money and effort on the costumes, sets, locations, etc. in order to make Westeros feel authentically medieval, but such anachronistic writing really jars me out of the immersive experience. Oh well.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but when Dany drops her wedding ring from Drogo, I assumed she was doing it because her association with the deposed Khal would not help her cause with the advancing Dothraki. But during the post-episode commentary from Benioff and Weis, they said they did that because "she's smart", and wanted to leave a "bread crumb" so someone might pick up her trail after the Dothraki take her. lolwut? She's hundreds of miles from Mereen, on the edge of the Dothraki sea, and she thinks dropping a tiny piece of jewelry is going to: (1) be found; (2) by her allies; and (3) tip them off that she's been kidnapped by a Khalasar?
 
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Corry

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I haven't read any of the books, but holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Those last two episodes were pretty damn great!

The last three saved the season for me. The first seven were just ok. Now we wait.

Does anyone not think the WoW will be out before the next season and if so why?
 

Corry

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I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but when Dany drops her wedding ring from Drogo

I thought the exact opposite. I thought she dropped her wedding ring from her current marriage. The dude that got stabbed in the pits.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Does anyone not think the WoW will be out before the next season and if so why?

I wouldn't bet money on TWoW coming out within the next 9 months. AGoT was published in 1996. It only took him two years to write ACoK and ASoS. AFfC took 5 years, and ADwD took 6 years. At that pace, we won't see TWoW until mid-2018 (if GRRM survives that long).

This 538 post does a good job of projecting when we might get book 6.
 
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Corry

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A Master's student from the London School of Economics has decided to do her dissertation research on a topic we all know and love: Game of Thrones! She is focusing on the importance of GoT to fans and how this relates to practices they have related to the show (e.g. discussing with friends, commenting on this site, etc.).
If you want to participate in her research by:
maintaining a one-week tv diary outlining anything you did related to GoT, which shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes at the end of your day;
having an interview (via Skype, phone or instant messaging), which should last between 1-1.5 hours;
then send Mary a raven at game.of.thrones.study@gmail.com for more information. Note that participants must be over 18, be a fan of the television series (not just/only the books) and not be a fan fiction writer, fan artist or other type of creator (she is carving out her study to look at more "typical" fandom).

A call from the Citadel: GoT Master's research ~ Tower of the Hand


FYI
 

Whiskeyjack

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I thought the exact opposite. I thought she dropped her wedding ring from her current marriage. The dude that got stabbed in the pits.

You may be right. But we're given no context at all for that ring. Since it looks to be made of bone, and Dany's past as a Khaleesi is about to become immediately relevant again, I assumed it must have been a memento she held onto from Drogo. Or it could be a symbol of her marriage to Hizdahr. Or it might just be random ring.
 

IrishLax

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Other nitpicks:

Every single person loyal to Stannis apparently has narcolepsy because half his army rode off with ALL THE HORSES and nobody seemed to notice until the next morning.

Could Myrcella's poisoning have been any more obvious? It's going to be awkward for them when Jamie thinks "gee, do I know anyone who hates my family and is good with poisons?"

"Bad pussy," really?

Greyworm is qualified to rule Meereen because... reasons? All the Unsullied seem good for is stab-fodder.

Melissandre walked from Winterfell to The Wall in like... a day? Really? I suppose in a world where Tyrion can get to slaver's bay as a fugitive before Mace Tyrell can reach Braavos, then anything is possible.

Where the hell is Yara/Asha Greyjoy?

I don't really agree with most of these nitpicks. I think you're generally over picky with the nitpicks each week.

For example, you went off about the poison scene earlier in the season... yet it was 100% necessary to set up following scenes including the death of Myrcella.

Myrcella's poisoning... yeah the WHOLE FUCKING POINT is that those people want OPEN WAR. They want the poisoning to be obvious, for the same reason the threat they sent to King's Landing was obvious.

While I agree "bad pussy" was a bit eye-rolley, that scene is entirely consistent with the vernacular they've used in the show from episode 1, season 1.

Greyworm ISN'T qualified to lead Mereen but he is a good FIGUREHEAD that people know, who also has command over the peacekeeping force. The entire point of that season is that he IS NOT qualified but Tyrion IS qualified.

Melissandre ROAD to Winterfell... and more important none of us has any idea of the passage of time between the battle and when she shows up at Winterfell. We know that her and Davos left approximately 1-2 days apart from generally the same location, and Davos is still in earnest begging Jon when she shows up, meaning she probably arrived a day after him... which makes perfect sense if she was traveling in better conditions and making haste because OH SHIT WE'RE GONNA LOSE.

What's the nitpick there? The logistics of her, Jeyne, and Theon not all being with Stannis when shit goes down? I think they just found the logistics way easier to put all the Greyjoy plot line in season 6.
 
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IrishLax

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My one complaint was that the combination of the Walk of Shame and Jamie's talk with Myrcella seemed to have a very "incest-is-kewl-and-shame-on-you-for-ever-thinking-otherwise" message.

Vis a vis Kit telling everyone he's off the show, it's possible that Jon's resurrection involves warging so that body really is dunzo. Or he's just full of shit.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

I'm guessing he's just intentionally misleading people.
 

ACamp1900

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Has anyone thought/discussed that maybe the books and show will go in two completely different directions with two completely different end games??
 

Whiskeyjack

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Apologies for linking to deadspin, but this article made me laugh a couple times:

Let’s begin by revisiting the best Game of Thrones scene to date. Notes:

1. It was not part of last night’s garish, brutal, wantonly mirthless season finale.

2. It certainly did not involve a sobbing naked lady being railroaded through town and pelted with shit for 45 minutes straight as leering extras shouted bitch, cunt, whore and so forth at her as the Flying Nun trailed behind chanting shame, shame, shame and ringing a giant bell, which at this point along the arc of the show’s moral/aesthetic deterioration qualifies as fan service.

3. Nor did it include the line “You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy,” which is totally a thing another lady said on Game of Thrones last night, as though channeling the Entourage movie.

4. It starred MOTHERFUCKIN’ KHAL DROGO.

<iframe width="636" height="353" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s-6u0HWodsw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Incredible. This is season one, of course, way back in 2011—several hundred shocking deaths and/or rapes ago. In it, a jacked-up oft-shirtless warrior-savage ex-Red Hot Chili Peppers guitarist does a wrestling promo in which he vows to kick rich amounts of ass in the name of his oft-shirtless Dragon Queen wife, all in a goofball made-up Tasmanian Devil language that requires him to spit so much I’m surprised the campfire didn’t go out. It is both hilarious and absurd; how anyone involved kept a straight face or for that matter remained upright is beyond me. But the comedy is not quite unintentional: The show knows this is all hilarious and absurd, but sells it with such conviction and cornball-badass ardor that it comes across as legitimately romantic, legitimately dramatic, legitimately badass. It’s lunacy worth buying into, a reward for your perpetual suspension of both disbelief and conventional morality.

Game of Thrones doesn’t do this sort of thing anymore: levity, wit, sublime ridiculousness. The show’s unmerciful and now mercifully concluded fifth season vacillated between Dull and Awful, with the Awful meant to spice up the Dull, an unending dirge of sexual assaults and child-burnings and CGI atrocities and unending misery and ineptly telegraphed Surprise Twists. Was the 16th closeup (spread out over 15 episodes) of the bitchfaced kid sneering at Jon Snow possibly overkill? Anyone surprised by what immediately followed the line “I’m glad that you’re my father”? Have we driven home the point that Ramsey Bolton is both a bad person and an invincible snow ninja, or do we need several more scenes of him torturing people and clandestinely lighting an entire army’s worth of horses on fire?

Likewise, should we tilt the moral scales toward Arya a li’l bit more by having her sneering adversary whip a couple underage girls first? Are we seriously going to spend the next 10 months on Twitter debating whether Brienne just whacked the tree above Stannis’ head or whether Jon just turned into an ice zombie or a wolf or whatever? Did Theon and Sansa seriously just push a lady to her death and then leap to safety from that same height? Is the snow in Winterfell really that ... fluffy? Is there even anyone convincingly likable left to do convincingly terrible things to? (Don’t answer that.) “You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy”? This is the LOL Nothing Matters gif in Trajan font; this is You Shouldn’t Do That on Television.

Listen, I won’t begrudge you if you enjoy relentless torment and degradation and whoops-you-thought-he-was-the-big-hero-but-LOL-we-killed-him nihilism, but the show used to counterbalance all that with the occasional semblance of human feeling. But anytime not-awful people are being not-awful to each other onscreen anymore, you’re braced for the cynical gut-punch to come—you know it’s just fleeting, insincere kindness designed to make the inevitable cruelty crueler, which is why it’s mildly shocking Sam and Gilly didn’t trot out of the Wall and directly into a jet engine. Play the Anyone Can Die at Any Time, Especially the People You Like game long enough and the only thing left to root for is the White Walkers, or the credits.

And Another Thing

I’ll tell you who really sucks: the Unsullied. The Unsullied are the Atlanta Hawks of Game of Thrones: nameless, cheerless drones with no sex appeal in an alarmingly visceral sense who’re nonetheless tirelessly hailed for their grittiness and adherence to fundamentals and team-first attitude, at least until they all get iced in a back alley by a ragtag troupe of Katy Perry backup dancers. Daenerys would’ve been better off with the dwarf-clown troupe from Joffrey’s wedding. Re: the Dull part of the Dull/Awful equation, this show spends a lotta time building up the fighting/strategizing acumen of peripheral characters who all turn out to be total chumps. Even Drogon the Dragon nearly got murked by half a dozen Katy Perry backup dancers throwing spears. And I’m not watching another scene in Dorne unless they knock it off the with poison/antidote shit and the let the RZA direct.

KICK HIS ASS, DROGO!

<iframe width="636" height="353" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0HqdSjdtPAQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There are many TV shows I enjoy watching, but none I enjoy watching as much as I enjoy not watching this one. Which is not to say I’ll stop now, though it’s not so much that I’ll hate-watch season six as season six will be hate-broadcast to me, all the remaining women further degraded and Walk of Shame’d into full-blown, full-frontal oblivion. all the scant few remaining Good People grindingly rendered horrible or killed horribly. “Hey, do this logical, pragmatic thing.” “Nah, dogg, I’m gonna do this rash, suicidal, knuckleheaded, ostensibly honorable thing instead.” [Hit by bus.] [Bus raped by another bus.] [Both buses fall off a cliff, explode.] I’ve got enough problems, and so do you.

Your only hope going forward is that Daenerys wound up back with, yes, the Dothraki, who will hopefully not burn her at the stake or anything, and then at least while we’re waiting eight more episodes for her to do something again we’ll get to watch her watch them slap each other around while Tasmanian Devil’ing foul oaths like THE WORMS WILL CRAWL THROUGH YOUR LUNGS and whatnot. See, this can all be fun! You can be both vicious and human, y’know. Let’s get back to first principles here, first principles meaning, “Not everything has to be 100 percent awful 100 percent of the time.” It’s not that I object to profound onscreen unpleasantries so much as I’m tired of those unpleasantries being the Entire Point, the show’s sole reason for being, an escalating trollishness that punishes you relaxing or caring or smiling or not-wincing, even for a second. There is nowhere to go but down, from Too Far to Even Farther. It’s the only game left in town. Game of Thrones long ago entered its “going door-to-door trying to shock you” phase, playing for stats in which the only stat that matters is “number of Twitter users appalled.” We got plenty of grist for that mill last night, and no grist for any others.
 
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phork

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Has anyone thought/discussed that maybe the books and show will go in two completely different directions with two completely different end games??

I believe it GRRM gave the showrunners the end and bits on how things get there. I believe the end will be the same, the middle bits will be different.
 
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