A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

Huntr

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IMO, easily the worst episode of the entire series so far. Stannis was horseshit. The Bastard Letter completely cut. Child rape as a plot device (again). TERRIBLE CGI on Drogon's flight. Embarrassing follow-up to Hardhome, possibly the series' best.

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Yup. Stannis/Shireen wasn't just bad, its the opposite of what's written in in the book. I don't mind changing stuff from the books, and let's face it, Mel will probably sac Shireen to res Jon Snow early in the next book, but this is exactly 180 degrees of how Stannis really is. She is the heir to the gd iron throne. He tells his men that if he dies, it's their job to get her on the throne or fucking die trying. This was bullshit.

Dany on Drogon CGI suuuuucked, too.
 

wizards8507

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Also interesting that her husband wasn't in on the mutiny.
He was. Before the combat starts, he shows up late and says something like "I had to take care of some things." Clearly backfired, but he had something to do with it.

Prediction: Sansa will be Lady Stoneheart.

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NDinMich

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He was. Before the combat starts, he shows up late and says something like "I had to take care of some things." Clearly backfired, but he had something to do with it.

Prediction: Sansa will be Lady Stoneheart.

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I thought the same thing about Hizdahr. Only hole in the theory is that a SofH killed him.
 

gkIrish

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Yeah it's crazy how bad that episode was coming off one of the best.

a) Considering Stannis has had absolutely no success in creating a male heir, why in the world would he sacrifice his only child to gain the Iron Throne if the point of being King is to create a LEGACY. No children = no legacy. Dumb.

b) Why even show Jon Snow that episode? They could have showed the same scene at the beginning of the next episode. Instead I'm waiting around for the next scene at the Wall that never came.

c) Agree with Wizard. I've had enough child rape/rape in general scenes for absolutely no reason at all plot wise. It would have actually made sense if Arya was brought in for him to rape her but she kills him instead.

d) Jorah is not some slouch. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again.

e) Selyse is completely unemotional until some random point where she seems to realize that her daughter is about to die. She is supposed to be the cold, uber religious character.


Side note: Did Jorah's greyscale hand touch Dany?
 
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wizards8507

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Side note: Did Jorah's greyscale hand touch Dany?
D&D seem to have forgotten what greyscale is. Though it could bring new meaning to "waking dragons from stone."

If Winds isn't out before next season, I'm not watching.

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Kaneyoufeelit

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Agree with a lot of the gripes with the episode.

The Bastard Letter completely cut.

It could still happen, I guess. Seems like a lot to rush through in one episode though. You're probably right.

TERRIBLE CGI on Drogon's flight. Embarrassing follow-up to Hardhome, possibly the series' best.

Laughable CGI when he flew in

Yup. Stannis/Shireen wasn't just bad, its the opposite of what's written in in the book. I don't mind changing stuff from the books, and let's face it, Mel will probably sac Shireen to res Jon Snow early in the next book, but this is exactly 180 degrees of how Stannis really is. She is the heir to the gd iron throne. He tells his men that if he dies, it's their job to get her on the throne or fucking die trying. This was bullshit.

Yep yep yep yep yep. It makes no sense. Plus this

e) Selyse is completely unemotional until some random point where she seems to realize that her daughter is about to die. She is supposed to be the cold, uber religious character.

That was such a dumb change

Prediction: Sansa will be Lady Stoneheart.

I'm starting to believe this. So many scenes with her in a hood.

Whiskey, re:breaking the internet, Sansa as Lady Stoneheart would do that IMO. I would certainly go nuts
 

IrishinSyria

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Yeah it's crazy how bad that episode was coming off one of the best.

a) Considering Stannis has had absolutely no success in creating a male heir, why in the world would he sacrifice his only child to gain the Iron Throne if the point of being King is to create a LEGACY. No children = no legacy. Dumb.

Yeah, but the choice he was facing down was everyone die or sacrifice her. They don't have enough supplies to get back to Castle Black and they were going to get massacred if they attacked Winterfell. Not saying I loved the scene, but it wasn't like they didn't build up to it and justify it in the plot.

b) Why even show Jon Snow that episode? They could have showed the same scene at the beginning of the next episode. Instead I'm waiting around for the next scene at the Wall that never came.

Keep us booklearners guessing. Also, I think Jon had to get back this episode so Davos can convince him to march south next episode. Jon's got to have reestablished his control of the wall to set the stage for what's coming next.

c) Agree with Wizard. I've had enough child rape/rape in general scenes for absolutely no reason at all plot wise. It would have actually made sense if Arya was brought in for him to rape her but she kills him instead.

I would bet anything that she will end up being the "fresh new girl" in Episode 10.

d) Jorah is not some slouch. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again.

None of those dudes were slouches, they were the best fighters in all of Mereen. That was like the gladiatorial Olympics.

e) Selyse is completely unemotional until some random point where she seems to realize that her daughter is about to die. She is supposed to be the cold, uber religious character.

I think she's going to take a more active role in the plot moving forward. Up to this point (in the books and the show) she's added no value whatsoever and shown no agency. I'm guessing she's not going to be quite as friendly with Mel anymore.

Side note: Did Jorah's greyscale hand touch Dany?

Sure looked like it. Not clear that it's spread all they way up to his hand yet though.

Overall, I liked the episode. Definitely disappointed with Stannis, but I think he's not going to be alive for much longer. As my above comments make clear, I think a lot of table setting was going on. I'm willing to wait another week to judge whether the payoff was worth it or not.
 

IrishinSyria

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D&D seem to have forgotten what greyscale is. Though it could bring new meaning to "waking dragons from stone."

If Winds isn't out before next season, I'm not watching.

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Will be impossible to avoid spoilers, otherwise I'd be right there with you.
 

wizards8507

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I love how Jon Snow just got back from fighting fucking ice zombies, including a staredown with the Night's King and he doesn't bother to, ya know, tell anyone about it.

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Kaneyoufeelit

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I love how Jon Snow just got back from fighting fucking ice zombies, including a staredown with the Night's King and he doesn't bother to, ya know, tell anyone about it.

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"Oh yeah, btw, there is this blue horned dude who raised a bunch of dead people and turned them into zombies intent on murdering anything living."

Probably good info to at least let Sam know
 

IrishinSyria

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"Oh yeah, btw, there is this blue horned dude who raised a bunch of dead people and turned them into zombies intent on murdering anything living."

Probably good info to at least let Sam know

I'd imagine he's going to be giving a speech next week about how he's seen the army of the dead. Also, it was kind of implied when he was talking to Sam about how he'd failed that Sam knew why he failed and why there were so few.
 

pkt77242

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I wish the most awful death for Stannis. A man who sacrifices his child is no man at all. How could his soldiers follow him after that?
 

IrishinSyria

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There's no way Stannis lives for much longer, we should get a poll going as to who we think is going to kill him:

Brienne
Selsye
Ramsay
Mel
Other
 

gkIrish

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Wait there was a scene with Jon and Sam this week? Did my TV just skip it?
 

Kaneyoufeelit

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I wish the most awful death for Stannis. A man who sacrifices his child is no man at all. How could his soldiers follow him after that?

I was thinking we would get some Abraham/Fear and Trembling/R'hllor intervention thing but then I remembered he ain't Azor Ahai. But still, maybe Stannis is on some transcendence/infinite resignation shit
 

IrishinSyria

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Wait there was a scene with Jon and Sam this week? Did my TV just skip it?

Early in the episode, you didn't miss much. The entire Night's Watch is glaring at Jon as the wildlings walk through Castle Black. Sam tries to cheer him up by telling him that he saved each and every one of them. The little fucker whose going to stab him gives him the evil eye. Thorne tells Snow that he has a good heart, and that it's going to be the death of them all.
 

IrishLax

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Episode 8 = golden.

Episode 9 = what in the actual fuck...

They ruined Stannis. And I basically guarantee he dies next episode. They could've easily written that scene to instead of him sacrificing her Melissandre goes behind his back to do it and then he gets furious about it.

Instead... fucking Selyse is the one who breaks and gets emotional? REALLY?!? The religious nut job who is cold blooded and HATES her daughter?

These show writers can go fuck themselves. Do they even read the books?
 

GATTACA!

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Episode 8 = golden.

Episode 9 = what in the actual fuck...

They ruined Stannis. And I basically guarantee he dies next episode. They could've easily written that scene to instead of him sacrificing her Melissandre goes behind his back to do it and then he gets furious about it.

Instead... fucking Selyse is the one who breaks and gets emotional? REALLY?!? The religious nut job who is cold blooded and HATES her daughter?

These show writers can go fuck themselves. Do they even read the books?

And nobody has even mentioned Mace Tyrell singing yet. Ehhhhhhha get off my television!
 

wizards8507

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I wish the most awful death for Stannis. A man who sacrifices his child is no man at all. How could his soldiers follow him after that?
That wasn't Stannis. Show Stannis is no Stannis at all. The real Stannis would never in a million years sacrifice his daughter to win a throne he doesn't especially want in the first place. Excerpts from Winds show his desire to see Shireen on the Iron Throne herself. He KNOWS that Melissandre's "king's blood" power is bullshit because Balon Greyjoy is still over in Pyke as a pretender King and Mel was supposed to have killed all the usurpers.

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phork

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Episode 8 = golden.

Episode 9 = what in the actual fuck...

They ruined Stannis. And I basically guarantee he dies next episode. They could've easily written that scene to instead of him sacrificing her Melissandre goes behind his back to do it and then he gets furious about it.

Instead... fucking Selyse is the one who breaks and gets emotional? REALLY?!? The religious nut job who is cold blooded and HATES her daughter?

These show writers can go fuck themselves. Do they even read the books?

mlfw9094-twilightdoyouevenread.png
 

wizards8507

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What they did to Stannis was the narrative equivalent of Tywin Lannister deciding he didn't care much for family or legacy after all, forging his Maester's chain, and retiring to a life of service on the Wall.

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Grahambo

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Argument being made that Stannis burning his daughter is part of Martin's plan all along:

In a preview chapter from The Winds of Winter, Stannis's dedication to his daughter appears unshaken — he mentions that if he should die in the forthcoming battle, his men should fight to seat Shireen on the Iron Throne. So the decision to sacrifice her here seems to be a dramatic departure for his character. But, showrunner David Benioff discusses this scene in the "Inside the Episode" segment that focuses on "The Dance of Dragons," and he mentions his reaction "when George first told us about this" — suggesting that it, or something like it, is Martin's plan after all.

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/7/8744309/game-of-thrones-adaptation-stannis-shireen
 

IrishLion

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I hope Stannis bites the dust in spectacular fashion (at the hands of the Onion Knight would be best), but the preview for next week's episode shows him saying that R'hllor answered their sacrifice and showed some melting icicles as his men stand behind him preparing for battle with swords and shields, so I'm thinking he's going to get an unsatisfying death in battle against the Boltons.
 

gkIrish

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so either a) Stannis dies in WoW or b) the show completely changed his storyline.

(a) would be annoying because this is the first true major spoiler IMO for book-readers. Makes me want to stop watching the show but I know I don't have that sort of willpower.
 

wizards8507

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so either a) Stannis dies in WoW or b) the show completely changed his storyline.

(a) would be annoying because this is the first true major spoiler IMO for book-readers. Makes me want to stop watching the show but I know I don't have that sort of willpower.
First major spoiler? How about:

- Lady Stoneheart is basically irrelevant
- Night's King is the captain of the Others
- Robert's bastards are basically irrelevant
- Valyrian steel can kill white walkers
- Tyrion doesn't have greyscale
- R + L = J confirmed
 
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