2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Black Irish]

You may not like Hillary, but saying she sucks as a politician is completely false. She is a Clinton and came within an ant's dick of becoming the first female President. You don't get to where she is by sucking at campaigning. I assure you that her silence is not coming from a fear of failure. It comes from the real reality that she has nothing to gain. Up until the primaries, conservatives are going to be forced to attack each other and bring their faults to the forefront. Would a good politician stand in the way of that?

It's common for people to underestimate people they personally do not like. If you think she is stupid and doesn't know how to campaign, then prepare to be scratching your head.

Regarding the article, it's stupid as hell, but not desperate. It certainly isn't desperation from Clinton, as it doesn't have her personal footprint on it. Don't mistake being an asshole with desperation.

Let me split the hair here. I think Hillary is very smart and has a great political mind but her personal execution sucks. She certainly is intelligent, determined, and has more balls than most men in politics. But, like it or not, politics is just as much a popularity contest as it is a policy contest. Hillary comes off too often as a mean-spirited, arrogant scold. That's a big reason why there isn't a lot of enthusiasm for her even among Dems, IMO. She can play strategy games all day long and do well, but at some point she has to step into the spotlight, and that's where she falters.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Let me split the hair here. I think Hillary is very smart and has a great political mind but her personal execution sucks. She certainly is intelligent, determined, and has more balls than most men in politics. But, like it or not, politics is just as much a popularity contest as it is a policy contest. Hillary comes off too often as a mean-spirited, arrogant scold. That's a big reason why there isn't a lot of enthusiasm for her even among Dems, IMO. She can play strategy games all day long and do well, but at some point she has to step into the spotlight, and that's where she falters.

She doesn't falter though. She got surprised by a once in a generation campaigner in 2008, but that doesn't mean her execution sucks.

 

[EddytoNow]

Let me split the hair here. I think Hillary is very smart and has a great political mind but her personal execution sucks. She certainly is intelligent, determined, and has more balls than most men in politics. But, like it or not, politics is just as much a popularity contest as it is a policy contest. Hillary comes off too often as a mean-spirited, arrogant scold. That's a big reason why there isn't a lot of enthusiasm for her even among Dems, IMO. She can play strategy games all day long and do well, but at some point she has to step into the spotlight, and that's where she falters.

I respect your opinion, but IMHO Hillary doesn't come off as mean-spirited and arrogant at all. She is a little stiff and not the natural campaigner that Bill Clinton has been, but, as a woman, she has been forced to show her tougher side to prove she is up to the task. It's the same obstacle any woman candidate has to overcome. The challenge for Hillary is to show her warmer more humerous side while deflecting a constant stream of attacks from the Republican primary candidates.

The lack of enthusiasm from the left is a reflection of her support for George W's war and her willingness to compromise when she was New York's senator. In their eyes, she wasn't liberal enough. When the general election comes along, the left will fall in line behind her unless a third party candidate siphons off some of the more liberal voters. However, I think the Democrats learned their lesson when Ralph Nader cost them the election. The eventual Republican nominee faces the same threat from Rand Paul or one of the wild card tea-party candidates. If Huckabee, Cruz, or Rand Paul decide to run as a third party candidate, they could help the Democratic nominee win the election.

One-on-one Hillary is going to be very difficult to beat. The Republicans know that. That's the main reason they keep throwing trash her way.

 

[phgreek]

You may not like Hillary, but saying she sucks as a politician is completely false. She is a Clinton and came within an ant's dick of becoming the first female President. You don't get to where she is by sucking at campaigning. I assure you that her silence is not coming from a fear of failure. It comes from the real reality that she has nothing to gain. Up until the primaries, conservatives are going to be forced to attack each other and bring their faults to the forefront. Would a good politician stand in the way of that?

It's common for people to underestimate people they personally do not like. If you think she is stupid and doesn't know how to campaign, then prepare to be scratching your head.

Regarding the article, it's stupid as hell, but not desperate. It certainly isn't desperation from Clinton, as it doesn't have her personal footprint on it. Don't mistake being an asshole with desperation.

Big difference between biding your time as a strategy, and avoiding tough questions in hopes the press and people are too ADD to keep focus. One is a respectable strategy, the other a contemptible view of, and approach to the "governed".

Also, not the same Hillary as '08. She has a record for people to look at, and has done some things to erode the trust of the middle( and not helping with her shenanigans). She can't pull off "depends on the definition of is" type shit. My takeaway from her being beaten by Obama is she is an entitled politician who waits too long to deal with momentum. As a human being, she is neither genuine, nor particularly cognizant of what the common person deals with day-to-day, and she is NOT particularly agile...not likeable for all the same supposed reasons as Romney, except she has a D next to her name...at least he had a strong leadership record.

I don't think she is dumb. I don't think her army of operatives are dumb. I fully expect her to be in a position to win, but not because she is GOOD. If she looses its because entitled people always wait too long to react...

I think she sucks at debates, and any impromptu challenge, and if it wasn't for the D, and the Clinton machine, she'd get CRUSHED.

 

[connor_in]

 

[Black Irish]

She doesn't falter though. She got surprised by a once in a generation campaigner in 2008, but that doesn't mean her execution sucks.

That's debatable. Yes, she got it handed to her by Obama in '08, who had a great confluence of events to help boost him into the White House. And let's not forget that Obama had the benefit of being charismatic, likeable, and can give a great speech. Those are all things that Hillary can't even pretend to do well, which is why I say her personal execution sucks.

Also, it's not as though Hillary had a long, stellar record of winning tough elections prior to that. She had the NY Senate seat gift-wrapped for her in 2000. She had the endorsement of Daniel Patrick Moynihan to take over for him. Also, the fight of the century showdown with Rudy Giuliani never materialized when he got side-lined with cancer. So Hillary coasted against nobody lightweight Rick Lazio. Then when she ran again in 2006, she had the benefit of being an incumbent candidate with national name recognition. And the best the NY state GOP could put up was the former mayor of Yonkers.

So she has 2 cakewalk Senate campaigns under her belt and a soul-crushing presidential primary loss. If she wins the general election, it will be because of a weak field of opponents and her having a great machine behind her, not because she is a great candidate on her own merits.

 

[wizards8507]

Wrong thread.

 

[connor_in]

 

[connor_in]

 

[RDU Irish]

Love this one.

 

[WestCoast]

Presidential horse races? Are the presidents riding the horses or betting on the horse races? Or are the horses the presidents? Someone help me out.

 

[ACamp1900]

Presidential horse races? Are the presidents riding the horses or betting on the horse races? Or are the horses the presidents? Someone help me out.

You must have missed where Barry dropped down from the helicopter, landed on some horse named 'American Pharoah,' and, all by himself, won some race this past weekend that was kind of a big deal.

 

[WestCoast]

You must have missed where Barry dropped down from the helicopter, landed on some horse named 'American Pharoah,' and, all by himself, won some race this past weekend that was kind of a big deal.

We had to sell our TV to pay for our free healthcare so ya.. musta missed it.

 

[GATTACA!]

Hillary Clinton Poll Numbers Drop to Lowest Point in 14 Years

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We had to sell our TV to pay for our free healthcare so ya.. musta missed it.

Good thing. If you'd broken your leg you would have had to sell your car.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey check it out: I put Rubio’s boat in Hillary’s swimming pool to scale. <a href="http://t.co/VFpxsvYtnV">pic.twitter.com/VFpxsvYtnV</a></p>— John Ekdahl (@JohnEkdahl) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnEkdahl/status/608433477999054850">June 10, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[phgreek]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey check it out: I put Rubio’s boat in Hillary’s swimming pool to scale. <a href="http://t.co/VFpxsvYtnV">pic.twitter.com/VFpxsvYtnV</a></p>— John Ekdahl (@JohnEkdahl) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnEkdahl/status/608433477999054850">June 10, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

...seems good representative imagery for the "dirt" in their lives. I can't wait for her to...have to be herself, and have to say something unscripted.

riddle me this...Bill believes he should stop taking "speaking fees" if Hrod is elected president...but the Sec. of State job was different??? This entire issue boils down to this. The optics are very bad. The people who pay you exorbitant speaking fees are doing so because they want favors. So you either intend to take their money, and do not intend to help them, or you take their money and help them...neither is acceptable behavior

 

[IrishJayhawk]

...seems good representative imagery for the "dirt" in their lives. I can't wait for her to...have to be herself, and have to say something unscripted.

riddle me this...Bill believes he should stop taking "speaking fees" if Hrod is elected president...but the Sec. of State job was different??? This entire issue boils down to this. The optics are very bad. The people who pay you exorbitant speaking fees are doing so because they want favors. So you either intend to take their money, and do not intend to help them, or you take their money and help them...neither is acceptable behavior

And none of it is unusual. This isn't specific to Clinton. It's systemic.

Recall that Romney had made over $370,000 in speaking fees the year before he ran for president. He described it as "not very much." Jeb Bush makes less than the Clintons for each engagement, but he pulls in around $50,000 per event.

 

[connor_in]

And none of it is unusual. This isn't specific to Clinton. It's systemic.

Recall that Romney had made over $370,000 in speaking fees the year before he ran for president. He described it as "not very much." Jeb Bush makes less than the Clintons for each engagement, but he pulls in around $50,000 per event.

The difference being that Mitt's & Jeb's spouses were not top level govt reps with the ability to influence policy to a massive degree

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The difference being that Mitt's & Jeb's spouses were not top level govt reps with the ability to influence policy to a massive degree

But they're running for office and have the same conflict of interest. Especially if Bill stopped taking fees should HRC be elected. It's the same ballgame.

How about Clarence Thomas' wife making lots of money working against the Affordable Care Act? Should Thomas recuse himself from voting on challenges to the legislation?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Marco Rubio And Five Members Of Congress Voted For Florida's 'Scarlet Letter' Adoption Bill

 

[Black Irish]

And none of it is unusual. This isn't specific to Clinton. It's systemic.

Recall that Romney had made over $370,000 in speaking fees the year before he ran for president. He described it as "not very much." Jeb Bush makes less than the Clintons for each engagement, but he pulls in around $50,000 per event.

It's not specific to the Clinton's but the difference is the scale on which the Clinton Foundation operates. They are pulling in huge piles of cash, and it's not just giving speeches to trade groups and think tanks. In fact, it's not just from giving speeches. The Foundation is pulling in tons of donation money from people who coincidentally are seeking high level government access from 2 people (former President Bill and former Senator & recent Sec State Hillary) who very definitely have it. Even if all of this is completely legitimate, which I doubt, it still looks very shady. But as long as a plurality of voters are too jaded to care, it won't matter.

 

[connor_in]

But they're running for office and have the same conflict of interest. Especially if Bill stopped taking fees should HRC be elected. It's the same ballgame. --- We are discussing taking speaking fees while one or one's spouse is employed in a top level govt job that sets policy, not having the potential to possibly be the president in the future...Mitt and Jeb took speaking fees with a potential future and Bill took fees for their family foundation (with a horrible back to the community percentage btw) while HRC was Sec State

How about Clarence Thomas' wife making lots of money working against the Affordable Care Act? Should Thomas recuse himself from voting on challenges to the legislation? -- It depends on what she did exactly.....EDIT: Does that mean Justice Sonia Sotomayor needs to recuse herself as she, herself worked for the ACA prior to joining the court?

see above

 

[wizards8507]

And none of it is unusual. This isn't specific to Clinton. It's systemic.

Recall that Romney had made over $370,000 in speaking fees the year before he ran for president. He described it as "not very much." Jeb Bush makes less than the Clintons for each engagement, but he pulls in around $50,000 per event.

Speaking fees per se are not an issue. Funneling speaking fees through your "charity" is an issue. Accepting contributions from foreign government is an issue.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

see above

I see what you're saying now.

My point is that everyone is scratching backs. Everyone has a political fee to repay. How many politicians go directly from office into think tanks, lobbying groups, or high paid corporate gigs? It's because they were doing favors for those people already.

I can see that the optics are worse here. But, to your point about Sotomayor...I'm not talking about some potential future gig like being a Supreme Court Justice. I'm talking about someone currently being in the position of Supreme Court Justice while his spouse is actively campaigning against and being paid by anti-ACA groups. (see how I did that?)

Again, this is not specific to the Clintons. It's systemic.

 

[wizards8507]

I see what you're saying now.

My point is that everyone is scratching backs. Everyone has a political fee to repay. How many politicians go directly from office into think tanks, lobbying groups, or high paid corporate gigs? It's because they were doing favors for those people already.

I can see that the optics are worse here. But, to your point about Sotomayor...I'm not talking about some potential future gig like being a Supreme Court Justice. I'm talking about someone currently being in the position of Supreme Court Justice while his spouse is actively campaigning against and being paid by anti-ACA groups. (see how I did that?)

Again, this is not specific to the Clintons. It's systemic.

You're smarter than that. You can't honestly believe that an individual allegedly beholden to "big money" donors is on the same playing field as an individual allegedly beholden to foreign governments or running a fraudulent charity.

 

[phgreek]

And none of it is unusual. This isn't specific to Clinton. It's systemic.

Recall that Romney had made over $370,000 in speaking fees the year before he ran for president. He described it as "not very much." Jeb Bush makes less than the Clintons for each engagement, but he pulls in around $50,000 per event.

The difference between those you cited and Hrod/Bill is, Hrod already held office. I assure you no one was trying to get to Jeb or Mitt's wife by paying Jeb or Mitt. Were people trying to curry favor with Mitt and Jeb...yea. Were they in a position to make decisions for tax payers...No. And FWIW, I mean, no politician should ever garner 5 bucks. About the only people who should get paid to open their pie hole are Jack Welch and Bill Gates.

So I'll ask again...whats the difference between Secretary of state and president that has Bill thinking the speaking fees look bad? I don't think it his moral/ethical compass...so what is it? More time to grope interns if he hangs around the white house?

 

[Buster Bluth]

How about we all just agree to vote for someone who doesn't that bullshit play the game at all?

 

[connor_in]

How about we all just agree to vote for someone who doesn't that bullshit play the game at all?

None of the above?

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

Looks like New Hampshire isn't too happy with the Fox News people trying to influence the elections.

Union Leader to host Presidential candidates' forum Aug. 6 | New Hampshire