'12 VA S C.J. Prosise (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

[Domina Nostra]

SO. DUMB.

He could've started there this year if they kept him at safety. Now what? You have a ridiculous log jam there moving him back. Just completely wasted a year of progression for no reason if this happens.

I disagree. The depth at WR was highly questionable in the Spring: You had DD, TJ, Chris Brown, Daniel Smith, and a bunch of incoming freshman for your 3 spots. Carlisle is an injury-prone RB that drops a lot of balls. You just lost your go to guys in tyler Eifert and Theo Riddick, who knows what you are going to get out of Koyack and Welch if Niklas goes down. On top of that, the running game was a big question mark, we are not going to be riding GAIII and Cam McDaniel like we did with Riddick and Wood. All this is not good enough for practice or games.

On the other hand, Farley just got through a championship season and looked like he was really progressing. Baratti was in the driver's seat for the second spot, but Shumate was coming a long nicely as a real threat to start. Collinsworth was on his way back. Hardy was looming in the background. And you had a super-hyped 5-star freshman coming in. Seemed unlikely Prosise was not going to push through all of those guys, and they all neeed maximum reps.

So when Prosise showed some real flashes in practice, so they took a chance.

Maybe it was the wrong choice, but I don't think it was dumb, unless you think moving players is dumb as a rule. But Riddick and Cam McDaniels both transitioned back to their original positions nicely. It actually seemed to help them.

Moving him back gives you:

FS:
Barratti
Redfield
Farley
Hardy

SS:
Shumate
Prosise
Tranquil
Turner

That's good depth.

 

[rocket66]

Haha. LAX has to have the most over the top reactions to anything ND football related news.

 

[PANDFAN]

SO. DUMB.

He could've started there this year if they kept him at safety. Now what? You have a ridiculous log jam there moving him back. Just completely wasted a year of progression for no reason if this happens.

Really ... That would surprise me. Seems like we have plenty of safeties for the spring (I counted 7 scholarship players for two spots) and not that many WRs (I counted 7 scholarship players for 3 spots, including C.J.)

Will Baratti not be recovered from his injury by then? Will Collinsworth not get a 5th year? Either of those things would help me understand this.

Right now I like Prosise at WR to play the Daniel Smith role. But then they might be grooming Onwualu for that.

they think we will go after a wr's coach-denbrock to oc/qb...................question:returning starters who will have to battle for their position....answer: chris brown will he start? when was the last time we heard his name, if he doesn't take a step forward there is corey robinson, will fuller , kelly is really high on tori, james , cj--we will have to see but i really wouldn't be surprised if he isn't moved to safety over spring.

 

[Domina Nostra]

But I do agree with Lax in that they have lost a full season of development. Hindsight is 20/20 but damn...

I think there is something to be said for playing a year at the position you are defending. It's not optimal (am I arguing its optimal? NO), but it does give your brain some real perspective on what you are dealing with. In other words, the year wasn't wasted.

For example, I think BJ and MF both benefitted from knowing first hand what WRs were trying to do.

 

[Cackalacky]

I think there is something to be said for playing a year at the position you are defending. It's not optimal (am I arguing its optimal? NO), but it does give your brain some real perspective on what you are dealing with. In other words, the year wasn't wasted.

For example, I think BJ and MF both benefitted from knowing first hand what WRs were trying to do.

Eh.... I don't want to re-hash MF and BJ not being able to tackle or being out of position...but ....

No, I am not going to do it. If Diaco's system was so complex that BK pretty much required a cerebral, more than physical, person to man the position, then I still think a year of development in the system is a requisite and it was wasted by having CJ as a WR.

 

[PANDFAN]

Eh.... I don't want to re-hash MF and BJ not being able to tackle or being out of position...but ....

No, I am not going to do it. If Diaco's system was so complex that BK pretty much required a cerebral, more than physical, person to man the position, then I still think a year of development in the system is a requisite and it was wasted by having CJ as a WR.

since he is gone hopefully it won't...but again this was ONLY stated by ISD not STAFF

 

[ThePiombino]

If true, this probably has more to do about Hunter than Prosise. Add in the unlikelihood of Collinsworth's return and Baratti's health and it makes some sense.

 

[IrishLax]

I think there is something to be said for playing a year at the position you are defending. It's not optimal (am I arguing its optimal? NO), but it does give your brain some real perspective on what you are dealing with. In other words, the year wasn't wasted.

For example, I think BJ and MF both benefitted from knowing first hand what WRs were trying to do.

You cannot make a logical argument that a year spent playing out of position with limited reps > a year spent developing at your position.

I think you're right that he was moved to WR because of depth concerns plus the fact that he had the best ball skills of any of the safeties. They probably thought it was a necessary move, much like how they tried Cam and then KeiVarae at CB after Lo Wood went down last year. In hindsight, it was the wrong move. WR was fine and will be borderline great going forward because of the talent in the '13 class... whereas injuries to safeties made that position a nightmare.

The only good news is that he redshirted in '12 so he's got 3 to play 3 still. Otherwise another positional swap seems a bit looney. He's so far behind the 8-ball now though if he does in fact swap back to S that you have to worry if they ruined the chances of him ever becoming a serious contributor... meanwhile, slower/smaller/weaker/less athletic/worse ball skills Farley was allowed to spend the season making crucial mistake after crucial mistake while playing through an injury.

 

[PANDFAN]

You cannot make a logical argument that a year spent playing out of position with limited reps > a year spent developing at your position.

I think you're right that he was moved to WR because of depth concerns plus the fact that he had the best ball skills of any of the safeties. They probably thought it was a necessary move, much like how they tried Cam and then KeiVarae at CB after Lo Wood went down last year. In hindsight, it was the wrong move. WR was fine and will be borderline great going forward because of the talent in the '13 class... whereas injuries to safeties made that position a nightmare.

The only good news is that he redshirted in '12 so he's got 3 to play 3 still. Otherwise another positional swap seems a bit looney. He's so far behind the 8-ball now though if he does in fact swap back to S that you have to worry if they ruined the chances of him ever becoming a serious contributor... meanwhile, slower/smaller/weaker/less athletic/worse ball skills Farley was allowed to spend the season making crucial mistake after crucial mistake while playing through an injury.

again in the question asked about starters fighting for their position---farley was brought up immediately due to Redfield

 

[Emcee77]

I think this point of debate is moot, or will be soon. I doubt Prosise will move back to safety. It sounds like the ISD guys were just spitballing, not reporting.

 

[Ironman8]

Let's not go crazy on this just yet. Mike Frank mentioned it in passing as a thing that would not surprise him if it were to happen, not even that he expected it to happen. That's it. Just speculation based on WR depth.

 

[NDPhilly]

Hope he does. No one could have predicted that the Freshman WRs would come in and contribute like they did. Personally I was getting a little concerned with our future safety depth considering we probably won't get Juju Smith. He'll be a RS Soph next year with a chance to be a huge contributor over the next 3 years at Safety. IMO 3rd most potential of our current safeties behind Redfield and Shumate.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think this point of debate is moot, or will be soon. I doubt Prosise will move back to safety. It sounds like the ISD guys were just spitballing, not reporting.

It's not the first time the move has been brought up by them. Of all the things they could spitball about, why this?

 

[EuropeanDomer]

Free Safety or Strong Safety? I guess FS, right? Poor Max

 

[PANDFAN]

Free Safety or Strong Safety? I guess FS, right? Poor Max

not to worry....he will be playing

 

[IrishLax]

Let's not go crazy on this just yet. Mike Frank mentioned it in passing as a thing that would not surprise him if it were to happen, not even that he expected it to happen. That's it. Just speculation based on WR depth.

Well then this was a huge waste of angst lol

 

[Domina Nostra]

You cannot make a logical argument that a year spent playing out of position with limited reps > a year spent developing at your position.

I didn't, I said there is some benefit to it, so it's not an entirely wasted year. To me, a back or shoulder injury in which you can't work out is an entirely wasted year.

I think you're right that he was moved to WR because of depth concerns plus the fact that he had the best ball skills of any of the safeties. They probably thought it was a necessary move, much like how they tried Cam and then KeiVarae at CB after Lo Wood went down last year.

Exactly.

In hindsight, it was the wrong move. WR was fine and will be borderline great going forward because of the talent in the '13 class... whereas injuries to safeties made that position a nightmare.

Agreed.

The only good news is that he redshirted in '12 so he's got 3 to play 3 still.

Forgot about that, that is excellent news.

Otherwise another positional swap seems a bit looney. He's so far behind the 8-ball now though if he does in fact swap back to S that you have to worry if they ruined the chances of him ever becoming a serious contributor...

I don't know. Guys get injured, miss a season and come back fine. Hardy fell off the face of the Earth, but he's getting back in the mix. He seems like he is quite an athlete, and I really do think a year as a WR is not a year completely wasted for a safety.

meanwhile, slower/smaller/weaker/less athletic/worse ball skills Farley was allowed to spend the season making crucial mistake after crucial mistake while playing through an injury.

I get this, but it seems to me that the coaches had a natural favoritism for the kid, since he got us through that 12-0 season. He got a little exposed this year (he was a futbol player growing up, after all), but I can see why the coaches thought he's be better than he was. I still contend Max must have been screwing up pretty badly in practice not to see thei field very much.

 

[Emcee77]

Hope he does. No one could have predicted that the Freshman WRs would come in and contribute like they did. Personally I was getting a little concerned with our future safety depth considering we probably won't get Juju Smith. He'll be a RS Soph next year with a chance to be a huge contributor over the next 3 years at Safety. IMO 3rd most potential of our current safeties behind Redfield and Shumate.

I guess I agree with that, with the possible exception of Hardy. I suppose if the staff thinks he would make the two deep next year then I'd like to move him back. And I think that's entirely possible

But I really like his potential on offense as the physical WR we don't really have right now without Daniel Smith (other than Onwualu), so unless the staff sees him moving into the two-deep next year I'm not sure I'd move him back.

It really just depends on how highly they regard him as compared with other players and prospects at safety.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I guess I agree with that, with the possible exception of Hardy. I suppose if the staff thinks he would make the two deep next year then I'd like to move him back. And I think that's entirely possible

But I really like his potential on offense as the physical WR we don't really have right now without Daniel Smith (other than Onwualu), so unless the staff sees him moving into the two-deep next year I'm not sure I'd move him back.

It really just depends on how highly they regard him as compared with other players and prospects at safety.

I have a feeling Robinson becomes the physical receiver next year.

 

[Cackalacky]

since he is gone hopefully it won't...but again this was ONLY stated by ISD not STAFF

 

[Brooklyn]

He flashed in practice at scout WR in 2012, so they tried him at WR in 2013. He got beat out by some other freshmen and we are only bringing in more studs at WR. We had troubles in 2013 at safety so he might move to safety.

I don't see the big deal. If they move him back to safety, its because they think thats where he will play best and have the best shot to play. Just like the move in 2013 to receiver.

 

[IrishLion]

If true, this probably has more to do about Hunter than Prosise. Add in the unlikelihood of Collinsworth's return and Baratti's health and it makes some sense.

This was my initial thought as well. With Daniels established, and Robinson/Fuller/Onwualu already getting heavy reps, the position is looking okay moving forward. Factor in Hunter, who BK has been talking up recently, and it suddenly looks like there aren't enough reps to go around (if everyone stays healthy).

 

[irishfan]

Is he still 220? Could he bulk up and play the Star position if we bring it back?

I think I remember him being in a couple special teams tackles but he didn't jump out to me like B-Jax and Collinsworth did their frosh years.

 

[Emcee77]

Is he still 220? Could he bulk up and play the Star position if we bring it back?

I think I remember him being in a couple special teams tackles but he didn't jump out to me like B-Jax and Collinsworth did their frosh years.

Yeah, good thought, but I'm not sure how much we need a Star in the Jaylon Smith era.

 

[Domina Nostra]

This was my initial thought as well. With Daniels established, and Robinson/Fuller/Onwualu already getting heavy reps, the position is looking okay moving forward. Factor in Hunter, who BK has been talking up recently, and it suddenly looks like there aren't enough reps to go around (if everyone stays healthy).

I agree that moving him back would be a clear sign that Kelly is no longer worried about WR. The need is at safety, and its probably Proisise's natual position. Easy call to make.

If you are recruited to ND as an "skill," "big skill," or "power" athlete, know that Coach Kelly will move you around if he thinks the team needs improved depth somewhere.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think its also worth noting that Will Mahone seemed to emerge in a similar role, as a brusing slot receiver, until he got injured.

 

[rtrn2glory]

i don't think this is anything to worry about in regards to max

if he gets passed by prosise at safety with a year under his belt by a guy who didn't even play the position this year than we gotta bigger problem than we thought

 

[Irish Insanity]

So is he the magic #3 that was spotted in the bowl practice playing D that nobody could figure out?

 

[STLDomer]

Wow. Lots of discussion for something Mike Frank was spitballing

 

[pkt77242]

So is he the magic #3 that was spotted in the bowl practice playing D that nobody could figure out?

Maybe that was Amir. Those who can't catch play DB.