'15 LA OLB Bo Wallace (Arizona State Verbal)

jimmymac

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kmoose said:
Joe Schmidt for certain. Beyond that....... not sure.
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No... None of the football players would have gotten in without football, including Joe, a good friend of mine.

Edit: Corey Robinson I think actually would have gotten in.
 
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PerthDomer

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I remember Elmer getting a 33 on his ACT. Just because a kid's not a regular admit at ND doesn't mean he's not ND smart. It just means the average football player isn't going to be as sharp as say a regular admissions kid. We already knew that. It's just cool to hear that a kid isn't just ungodly good at football, he can play school with the top 1% of America too.
 
BobbyMac

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NDinL.A. said:
You're saying you're clueless about it, and then you're bagging on members for also being clueless about it? Maybe that's the reason no one answered your question.

There is a member of this site who is a friend to many on here, who has many contacts very close to the program. He knows there are exceptions on this team...many exceptions. I've never asked what the exact parameters are, nor do I care to know. But they are on the team, of that I have no doubt.
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This response is to the board in general. I know you are smart enough to read what I said, not sure why you chose the contrarian route?

I did not say I was clueless. I said I have no idea without metrics what the moving definition of an exception is on this board and the majority of posters are clueless (non-pejorative). That means they do not understand the complete concept of what an exception is at ND vs. Vandy vs. Indiana vs. Kentucky vs Indiana State and how they compare to the NCAA's minimum requirements for eligibility or how they compare to their school's student body in general for that matter. It only takes one to make these conversations spin out of control.

I'm also going to say it's my observation that there are people here who feel ND should take "an exception" who is basically a minimum qualifier by NCAA standards. Though it's a warm and fuzzy story, that student has virtually a 0% chance of getting through ND.


NCDomer said:
This thread turned into a place for a$$holes to trash the intelligence of student athletes. It's embarrassing to see this. I hope none of you are alums like I am.
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I don't want to be a part of that group. As step #1, I was trying to use this to help some understand that the overwhelming number of football players are already exceptions at ND. I know there are A LOT of people that think ND only recruits guys who are great students but that doesn't mean they are....ND level students like you were. I always use this example, I was cleared by admissions at All of the Ivy League schools, Rice, and the Academies and there's zero chance I would have gotten into Notre Dame as a student. People argue with me all the time, call me a liar, but it's true. That shows the difference in the parameters regarding what makes you eligible for each group, it also shows the general ignorance (non-pejorative) that even above average fans have about those requirements. ND has no business taking an exception that is barely eligible to attend Mississippi State. It's not fair to anybody, most of all that kid.

Until the everyday poster here on IE has a general framework of what exceptions are and has some idea of what the parameters are that separates ND from SC from OSU from Louisville and from Mississippi State these types of things will continue to pop up. They tend to start off as informative but someone eventually gets snarky with admissions and or the player and it devolves into a dumpster fire.

I was hoping there was a thread addressing this and that's why I asked. I've only been around less than a year and haven't ever seen one. If it doesn't exist maybe Whiskey or Lax would want to start it. From what I've seen they are the best at handling such topics and they're both alums... and it would keep posters from blowing off steam in the player's profiles.

My apologies to any that think I was stirring. That was 100% the opposite of what I was going for. The players and recruits deserve more than that.

.
 
kmoose

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Irishnuke said:
Pretty sure he knows more than any of the rest of us.
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Well, that certainly qualifies him to speak an expert on ALL of their academic records. And how those records compare to every single other student admitted in their class.
 
OCIrish

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jimmymac said:
No... None of the football players would have gotten in without football, including Joe, a good friend of mine.

Edit: Corey Robinson I think actually would have gotten in.
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Jimmy, I love ya man, and you'd probably know more than most of us on this topic, however, until there's a naked lap......you're banned from speaking on such matters that you have knowledge of.......No lap, no peace!!
 
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Bogtrotter07

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A friend of mine that has quite a bit of information on the academic, and admissions information just told me a few things I didn't know.

He said :

  • The problem everyone in this thread is having is distinguishing between admission and degree completion.
  • The next thing nobody on this thread understands is how small the admitted group is every year. 2000 and change? Maybe? To contrast with 5 to 12,000 at larger football factory schools.
  • Few know that 78% of those qualified do not gain admission, (are turned away.)
  • And people also don't understand that at ND any athlete does the same course work as any non-athlete.
  • At ND there are no 'gimme' courses, or majors for that matter.
  • So when someone like any of the football players gets a degree from the Mendoza School of business (Whether Sean Cynar or Evertt Golson) it has the same merit as the degree of the most prize academic candidate.
  • Yes ND has a lot of help for athletes, but they are supposed to do the work, so students that want to badly enough can make it through any program on campus.
His great niece had a 4.0 GPA and was being offered a partial athletic scholarship. She went to an elite prep school, and had great placement testing, and she was still put on the waiting list. My friend is clear that if he used his family connection, she would have been initially admitted. And that happens all the time with legacies, etc. His words not mine!
 
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LoveThee

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Nobody on this board can state with certainty if any of the football players would be admitted without football unless they are in admissions at ND themselves.

That said, Notre Dame is extremely hard to get into and just as if not more hard to succeed once in. I just finished my first year of college after having been denied admission to Notre Dame. Three of my friends from my high school got admitted, including the valedictorian, and are struggling mightily. Top of the line students, all who got into Ivy league schools, all 4.0's, two with perfect SAT/ACT scores. In our talks, they're struggling to keep in the 3.0-3.5 range. Imagine adding to this the time commitment that is football.

Notre Dame can not afford to "make exceptions" on a high number of kids for the team. Sure, a few may be worth it, but the coaches and recruits generally have a better handle of if they can make it work. When it doesn't work, its a shame for the kid and the school. At the end of the day, there is only so much Notre Dame and admissions can do to accommodate a player in my opinion. If they can't demonstrate to an acceptable level that they can handle the rigor, its better for all parties to cut ties before everyones time is wasted
 
johnnycando

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//endofstupidshitdiscussionconcerningadmissionexceptionsandtryingtofigurewhothatmightfuckingbe

I love you all.

You know that.

But I think it's counterproductive to what we should stand for.

Amiwrong?
 
connor_in

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johnnycando said:
//endofstupidshitdiscussionconcerningadmissionexceptionsandtryingtofigurewhothatmightfuckingbe

I love you all.

You know that.

But I think it's counterproductive to what we should stand for.

Amiwrong?
Click to expand...

Next week we begin work on spacing
 
Junkhead

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LoveThee said:
Top of the line students, all who got into Ivy league schools, all 4.0's, two with perfect SAT/ACT scores. In our talks, they're struggling to keep in the 3.0-3.5 range.
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I get what you are saying, but it made me laugh to think of a 3.5 at ND as "struggling"! For someone with a perfect SAT score, that B+ is probably devastating. :whoknows:
 
MNIrishman

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Athletes are dumb. Regular students are dumb. We're all retarded. No one deserves ND. Except Jesus. But he's not smart enough either.
 
BobbyMac

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T Town Tommy said:
So what if a player gets a waiver. Isn't it more important what they do while they are at Notre Dame as a student?
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Devil's advocate.

So what if the grossly under qualified guy from the mail room got the once in a lifetime promotion that you deserved? He's a better bowler than you and that's all that matters to your boss, winning the Saturday afternoon men's league at South Bend lanes..

.
 
stlnd01

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NDCrusader said:
Devil's advocate.

So what if the grossly under qualified guy from the mail room got the once in a lifetime promotion that you deserved? He's a better bowler than you and that's all that matters to your boss, winning the Saturday afternoon men's league at South Bend lanes..

.
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I realize you're playing devil's advocate, but isn't that exactly what we're talking about? Being an elite football recruit is the college equivalent of your boss promoting the best bowler.

Notre Dame admitted 3,785 kids last year (out of nearly 18,000 applicants). #3,786 was almost certainly better qualified, academically, than the overwhelming majority of our football players. Probably a wonderful kid we'd all be proud to call our son or daughter. The football players have a special talent that makes them more attractive to the university. It is the university's right to admit who they want, for their own reasons.

#3,786 can get bent out of shape about this, complain that life's unfair and that they're smarter than some four-star defensive end from Ohio who didn't do so hot on the ACT. Or they can attend some other great university and go on with their life. And the four-star defensive end can act entitled, dick around and flunk out, or they can use the great educational opportunity they've just been handed to set themselves up for life when their football career inevitably ends.

Like Tommy said, the point is what you do with the opportunities you get. For Notre Dame, the hard part - I think - is figuring out which kids are going to make the most of their opportunities. Character is a lot harder to measure than test scores (or 40 times).
 
PANDFAN

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On ISD we supposedly did some damage to the john curtis relationship
 
IrishLion

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PANDFAN said:
On ISD we supposedly did some damage to the john curtis relationship
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I'm still unclear as to how that could be the case, unless it was ND that flagged his newer test score and killed things.
 
dshans

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stlnd01 said:
... Notre Dame admitted 3,785 kids last year (out of nearly 18,000 applicants). #3,786 was almost certainly better qualified, academically, than the overwhelming majority of our football players. Probably a wonderful kid we'd all be proud to call our son or daughter. The football players have a special talent that makes them more attractive to the university. It is the university's right to admit who they want, for their own reasons.

... For Notre Dame, the hard part - I think - is figuring out which kids are going to make the most of their opportunities. Character is a lot harder to measure than test scores (or 40 times).
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Admissions is not an exact science. Academic history and test scores are most certainly and appropriately a major factor in the equation. But so are the "intangibles" that are given weight.

One, among many goals, is to create and foster a diverse and well-rounded academic, social and cultural atmosphere and experience within and for the student body and faculty. Success in athletics, like it or not, is part and parcel with the goals of the university.

Just as academic excellence, social awareness and action are considered important contributions to the community, so is talent and effort to excel in sports that are a value added asset to the general atmosphere and allure of Notre Dame that fosters interest in attending. Interest (application by "elite" candidates) leads to competition for the limited number of places at the table.

It's a balancing act. I'd be disappointed and pissed if ND admitted students based solely on their athletic prowess without considering the "whole ball o' wax." I know damn well that I was not admitted based solely on my class standing and SAT scores. My myriad of extracurricular activities were important factors. Football or basketball were not among them (I was a swimmer and a golfer), but skill in major sports are, and should, be factors to consider as part and parcel to any decision on possible contribution to the "family."
 
BleedBlueGold

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PANDFAN said:
On ISD we supposedly did some damage to the john curtis relationship
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IrishLion said:
I'm still unclear as to how that could be the case, unless it was ND that flagged his newer test score and killed things.
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My guess is that it has more to do with the perception that comes along with ND allowing a kid to sign a LOI only to not allow him to officially enroll, thus "screwing him over" when it comes to attending another school w/o having to sit out. They probably feel like ND did him wrong. Schools can be pretty protective of their students. Even though ND is not wrong here, the perception is what usually matters most. Just my opinion.
 
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