Late season realistic expectations.

[IrishLax]

I'm a troll after our victories, too. ;-)

Fixed.

 

[aubeirish]

I don't see how we have regressed. I can't remember an ND team being as fast and physical as this group on defense, and it is composed mostly of Freshmen and Sophomores. Play calling has taking a step up since last year. We finally have established some kind continuity with our QB depth. Some of you guys don't realize how hard it is to go undefeated at this kind of level of competition. You need so many things to go your way. Who knows, maybe Everett had a really tough week at school or maybe he was just having a bad day like all the other normal humans. These guys are college students, not professional athletes. I wonder why we keep on expecting them to be super humans all the time?

 

[connect the dots]

I'm gobsmacked by the complete change in tone among our fan base following that loss. You'd think we were pre-season favorites to make the playoff, instead of a team that was only in the conversation this late in the season due to some serious overachieving along the way. We're still playing with house money at this point; finishing 10-3 or 11-2 will set us up very nicely for 2015.

Only someone with the gift of gab would use gobsmacked in a sentence. On further note, do you suppose Harry Hiestand can get his underachieving offensive line to do some litteral gobsmacking?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think it's more how ND lost to FSU and ASU that has people up in arms. You're right, this team has overachieved based on everyone's preseason predictions. But the schedule turned out to be not nearly as difficult and ND lost to arguably the two best teams on it...in gut-wrenching fashion. Normally you'd view that as a positive, but I think people are over moral victories.

It's not just about our schedule (which has disappointed in quality). It's also about all the talent we lost to the 2014 draft, to injury, and suspension this year. Our defense is extremely young and in the 1st year of a new scheme. Take all of that into account, and we've got plenty to be happy about.

I'm not trying to take away from what this team has (and will continue to) accomplish. Winning 10+ games a year should please any fan. I think people got pleasantly surprised by how good this team can be and were hoping for another magical season. Now that the playoff chances are all but gone, I think people are just disappointed.

People are disappointed because this team over-achieved to the point where we had legitimate play-off hopes. Now that the playoffs are no longer in reach, we've still got plenty to play for-- like a New Year's Day bowl and a top-10 finish. Just have to remember what our expectations were before the magic kicked in.

Our schedule looked a lot tougher pre-season when those predictions were made, though. USC, Stanford were top 15 teams, and Michigan was not a laughing stock.

And this is ND. We have our QB, our HC has his players, it's time to live up to the hype IMO. 9-3 years do not satisfy me.

If someone had offered you 10-3 (counting the bowl game) before this season started, you would have taken it in a heart-beat. Almost all of us would have.

 

[ACamp1900]

If someone had offered you 10-3 (counting the bowl game) before this season started, you would have taken it in a heart-beat. Almost all of us would have.

...and some of us like company with our misery...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Only someone with the gift of gab would use gobsmacked in a sentence. On further note, do you suppose Harry Hiestand can get his underachieving offensive line to do some litteral gobsmacking?

That's my only real concern going forward, because I cannot explain the OL struggles given the talent that's sitting on our bench.

And your comment made me chuckle, because Zack Martin's Twitter handle is @thegob70. How fitting that in our first year without him, we're having difficulty smacking gobs.

 

[wizards8507]

If someone had offered you 10-3 (counting the bowl game) before this season started, you would have taken it in a heart-beat. Almost all of us would have.

I feel like you're implying that we've overperformed. I'd counter that we've actually underperformed but our opponents have been even worse. We were supposed to be a B+ team playing an A+ schedule. We ended up a C+ team playing a C schedule.

 

[NDohio]

fireBrianKelly.com • View forum - Notre Dame Football Discussion

Ha! The last entry on that discussion board was 4/15/14.

 

[ACamp1900]

Ha! The last entry on that discussion board was 4/15/14.

haha, dudes are slacking...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I feel like you're implying that we've overperformed. I'd counter that we've actually underperformed but our opponents have been even worse. We were supposed to be a B+ team playing an A+ schedule. We ended up a C+ team playing a C schedule.

No C+ team walks into Doak Campbell and takes FSU down to the wire.

We're inconsistent due to youth and inexperience, but we've got enough talent to compete with anyone in the nation when everything comes together.

 

[wizards8507]

No C+ team walks into Doak Campbell and takes FSU down to the wire.

Who has FSU beaten, honestly? It's an impressive loss to the #1/2 team in the country, but I'll wait until after bowl season to see if they're really the #1/2 team.

We're inconsistent due to youth and inexperience, but we've got enough talent to compete with anyone in the nation when everything comes together.

Our most inconsistent player has started 20 games. That's not youth and inexperience. I'd buy your argument if we were losing because of Will Fuller and Andrew Trumbetti, not Everett Golson.

 

[NDTH91]

Why are people acting like 9-3 is our ceiling now? There's no reason we can't go 10-2 fairly easily.

 

[Wingman Ray]

My prediction:

We let Northwestern stay in the game but win by 10 by games end.

We split Louisville and USC. Sadly, I think we lose to Louisville and beat the USC team with a lot more talent.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Who has FSU beaten, honestly? It's an impressive loss to the #1/2 team in the country, but I'll wait until after bowl season to see if they're really the #1/2 team.

You know ND is a C+ team, but FSU? The jury's still out.

Our most inconsistent player has started 20 games. That's not youth and inexperience. I'd buy your argument if we were losing because of Will Fuller and Andrew Trumbetti, not Everett Golson.

That's Golson. He looked like a Heisman candidate against OU, FSU, and many other marquee opponents. Last Saturday's debacle is the first time he's wilted on a big stage since early 2012. Kelly thinks he still gives us the best chance to win, and I'm inclined to agree with him. We don't know exactly what the problem was. Maybe Golson isn't ready to face an aggressive blitz without a 6th blocker protecting him.

 

[wizards8507]

That's Golson. He looked like a Heisman candidate against OU, FSU, and many other marquee opponents. Last Saturday's debacle is the first time he's wilted on a big stage since early 2012.

That's not what you said. If your position is that "we're inconsistent because Everett Golson is inconsistent," then I completely agree with you. I disagreed with your position that our inconsistency was due to inexperience because our biggest source of inconsistency is not inexperienced.

Kelly thinks he still gives us the best chance to win, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

Unfortunately, failure to blow out inferior opponents means we have virtually zero Zaire film to go on so we have no idea.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Who has FSU beaten, honestly? It's an impressive loss to the #1/2 team in the country, but I'll wait until after bowl season to see if they're really the #1/2 team.


Our most inconsistent player has started 20 games. That's not youth and inexperience. I'd buy your argument if we were losing because of Will Fuller and Andrew Trumbetti, not Everett Golson.

Couple of points here:

1 - BK has said many times that in 2012 they dummied things down for Golson. So stating he has started 20 games and implying that the number alone makes him experienced is just misleading. 2012 wasn't playing quarterback in nearly the same fashion that is being asked of him now. More over, if you believe the assertion that ND hasn't played anyone this year, which you seem to imply in other posts, then Golson has only been in the position he was Saturday (good team, on the road, being asked to win a game for the team versus manage a win) a handful of times.

Personally, I think it is somewhere in the middle. Golson clearly has had his oh shit moments (Cuse being a similar style with similar head scratching moments) and I put the fault on Kelly not having a fall back running game to help stem the tide in a 17-3 game.

2 - If you believe he has experience, it can only get him so far as those he must play thru don't have that same experience. So, Will Fuller's inexperience, Folston's inexperience & everyone else's becomes a huge road block for Golson's success. He can't make the WR's read the defense the right way, he can't make the WR's get off jams better & he certainly can't make the OL block better. So their inexperience becomes Golson's inexperience.

As with everything, Golson got too much credit when things went well and is getting way too much blame today. There is no doubt in my mind that he played a bad game. It happens. Is it as bad as throwing two fluky pick sixes? Not to me.

Instead, let's look the to the coaching staff on this one. They didn't have a contingency plan if they got blown out of the gate (similar to UNC) and it showed. It wasn't until after halftime that adjustments had been made. To me, that was the most concerning takeaway from Saturday.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

No C+ team walks into Doak Campbell and takes FSU down to the wire.

We're inconsistent due to youth and inexperience, but we've got enough talent to compete with anyone in the nation when everything comes together.

I'm with you. My only true bitch is this. Folston and Bryant apparently can't pass block but Cam can. Ok great, why is it totally out of the question to put Cam and Folston in the back field together? Cam, block. Folston, Flare out to flats as a outlet. you're telling me that 4/5 yard dinks to a back out of the back field wouldn't of worked against those jailhouse blitzes?

If our offense is that complex I think some reevaluating needs to be done. No reason whatsoever that Smyth or any other tight end can't stand in the backfield and block a blitzer.

 

[ickythump1225]

I guess I'm in the minority and that's okay. I just can't process "we committed a big pile of terrible turnovers" as a good thing, because, well "at least they didn't beat us physically."


Why should we assume that to be true? I'd argue we have more self-inflicted wounds this year than we did in 2012. We have the athletes now to overcome many of those mistakes, but we're shooting ourselves in the foot with greater frequency as we "mature." Arizona State feels like the first time we've seen it but they're just the first team with the talent to take advantage of our mistakes. We were also a mess against Syracuse, Purdue, Stanford, North Carolina, and Navy. We were fortunate that those teams happen to suck so we still managed to win fairly comfortably.


I'm a Debbie Downer after our victories, too. ;-)

We are YOUNGER than the 2012 team! That 2012 was laden with senior/veteran leadership. Name all of the senior leaders on this team? This team is extremely young and made a lot of mental errors that a young team would make. The fact that we have enough of talent gap to still beat the majority of teams after making errors is a good thing, you can mature out of mental errors but you can't coach athleticism. Just because we have the same coach and QB as 2012 doesn't mean this team is the same as the 2012 team. This is college football, not pro, and the roster has turned completely over since then. I would agree with you (just saying that made me ill) if the 2012 team was very young full of fresh/sophs and now those kids are juniors/seniors now and making mistakes. This is a completely different roster than 2012. Hell it's almost completely different than last year.

 

[ickythump1225]

I'm gobsmacked by the complete change in tone among our fan base following that loss. You'd think we were pre-season favorites to make the playoff, instead of a team that was only in the conversation this late in the season due to some serious overachieving along the way. We're still playing with house money at this point; finishing 10-3 or 11-2 will set us up very nicely for 2015.

Whoa whoa whoa...what is this level headedness? Don't you know the very sky is falling on us? We should all be panicking. Stick a fork in ND...two losses to teams in top 10 means our program is over. We're going to finish 7-5 and get housed in the Poinsettia Bowl by Wyoming.

 

[ickythump1225]

Couple of points here:

1 - BK has said many times that in 2012 they dummied things down for Golson. So stating he has started 20 games and implying that the number alone makes him experienced is just misleading. 2012 wasn't playing quarterback in nearly the same fashion that is being asked of him now. More over, if you believe the assertion that ND hasn't played anyone this year, which you seem to imply in other posts, then Golson has only been in the position he was Saturday (good team, on the road, being asked to win a game for the team versus manage a win) a handful of times.

Personally, I think it is somewhere in the middle. Golson clearly has had his oh shit moments (Cuse being a similar style with similar head scratching moments) and I put the fault on Kelly not having a fall back running game to help stem the tide in a 17-3 game.

2 - If you believe he has experience, it can only get him so far as those he must play thru don't have that same experience. So, Will Fuller's inexperience, Folston's inexperience & everyone else's becomes a huge road block for Golson's success. He can't make the WR's read the defense the right way, he can't make the WR's get off jams better & he certainly can't make the OL block better. So their inexperience becomes Golson's inexperience.

As with everything, Golson got too much credit when things went well and is getting way too much blame today. There is no doubt in my mind that he played a bad game. It happens. Is it as bad as throwing two fluky pick sixes? Not to me.

Instead, let's look the to the coaching staff on this one. They didn't have a contingency plan if they got blown out of the gate (similar to UNC) and it showed. It wasn't until after halftime that adjustments had been made. To me, that was the most concerning takeaway from Saturday.

 

[irishandy]

1. Blowout Northwestern, I want to see this team go balls to the wall.
2. 10-2 is realistic and I don't want to talk 9-3.
3. Can Everett Golson have a turnover free game??

 

[tko]

1. Blowout Northwestern, I want to see this team go balls to the wall.
2. 10-2 is realistic and I don't want to talk 9-3.
3. Can Everett Golson have a turnover free game??

No

 

[ickythump1225]

1. Blowout Northwestern, I want to see this team go balls to the wall.
2. 10-2 is realistic and I don't want to talk 9-3.
3. Can Everett Golson have a turnover free game??

He can. He did the first 3 weeks of the season. Every week is a new opportunity for him to right the ship in that regard. I fret less about the interceptions than the fumbles. A lot of his interceptions have been flukey/not clearly his fault and the ones that are his fault are good learning opportunities. The fumbles though...there is only 1 lesson there: secure the ball! He holds the ball away from his body and that is a fundamental ball control no-no.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I think realistic expectations are 9-3 and the bowl game is a wild card b/c the team will have a lot of time to prepare & get healthy plus we don't know who the opponent will be.

I wouldn't be shocked, however; if we finished the regular season 10-2 or 8-4. ASU was a slight favorite in this past game (home field advantage). Lots of prognosticators & even (rational) ND fans thought ND would win this game. I, for one; didn't expect a debacle. If anything, I thought ND may be the team issuing a blowout to ASU (and I'm far from Pollyanna). That's what gives me pause and makes me factor in one more loss this season.

I look at the remainder of the season as a box of chocolates. We won't know what we get until we open it and taste what's inside. On paper, SCum should be the toughest opponent. Their offense is potent, their QB is efficient, depth is their enemy. We should boatrace Northwestern. We should handle Louisville but there's no way I'm taking that game for granted.

Brady Quinn & Jimmy Clausen made huge strides from year two to year three under the tutelage of Weis. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison (the one thing Kelly's QBs have in common is their backbreaking turnovers...from Crist to Rees to Everett) but I think Golson is talented enough to make a similar improvement. Gotta love college football.

 

[irishtrain]

First Golson-great kid ,most talented player on the field, tries to do too much like he did in high school, Kelly will get thru to him- that's a guarantee. He may even sit him to make a point but this is a great kid and a great QB. I cant fault a guy for trying to make plays but there is a time to just dump the play and move on. He will learn. Second- this team has overachieved with 5 guys on defense who are starters out. I picked them to be 8-4, now 10-2 is a real opportunity. I like all of us want a truly big bowl game after 10-2 launching into next year. I'm always cautious about the game ( Lou Holtz school of predictions) but this program has spoken for itself. Kelly must be made to feel he's appreciated because he's a top 2/3 coach in the country and I for one have this guys back--we all should. What they have down this year after all the %$#@ that has happened is remarkable. I put my ^%$#@%$ ND hat on today and stared 'em down. GO IRISH!

 

[IrishSteelhead]

It's not an apples-to-apples comparison (the one thing Kelly's QBs have in common is their backbreaking turnovers...from Crist to Rees to Everett) but I think Golson is talented enough to make a similar improvement. Gotta love college football.

In 2009, Pike and Collaros combined for 39 TDs, and 8 INTs under Kelly. They both were phenomenal in his offense protecting the football while spraying it all over the field.

 

[Ndaccountant]

In 2009, Pike and Collaros combined for 39 TDs, and 8 INTs under Kelly. They both were phenomenal in his offense protecting the football while spraying it all over the field.

Question is whether or not that was a result of good coaching, scheme and qb play or more a factor of a portion of the previous reasons with crappy competition?

 

[aubeirish]

First Golson-great kid ,most talented player on the field, tries to do too much like he did in high school, Kelly will get thru to him- that's a guarantee. He may even sit him to make a point but this is a great kid and a great QB. I cant fault a guy for trying to make plays but there is a time to just dump the play and move on. He will learn. Second- this team has overachieved with 5 guys on defense who are starters out. I picked them to be 8-4, now 10-2 is a real opportunity. I like all of us want a truly big bowl game after 10-2 launching into next year. I'm always cautious about the game ( Lou Holtz school of predictions) but this program has spoken for itself. Kelly must be made to feel he's appreciated because he's a top 2/3 coach in the country and I for one have this guys back--we all should. What they have down this year after all the %$#@ that has happened is remarkable. I put my ^%$#@%$ ND hat on today and stared 'em down. GO IRISH!

This. We are not going to get a better coach than Kelly. Let's show some fucking support.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

In 2009, Pike and Collaros combined for 39 TDs, and 8 INTs under Kelly. They both were phenomenal in his offense protecting the football while spraying it all over the field.

I just wanna know if he fucking ran rb screens at cinci?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Question is whether or not that was a result of good coaching, scheme and qb play or more a factor of a portion of the previous reasons with crappy competition?

Combination of all like you said.


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