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koonja
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The more I hear (which who knows what's true), the less concerning/embarrassing it seems to be. Let's hope for a quick and painless investigation.
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JughedJones
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JughedJones
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I think these kids will learn, as I did at one point in my career, that email, and specifically email with servers owned by someone else, is as good as DNA and fingerprints.
Regardless of that DaVaris is telling his dad, if there is evidence on email, there is evidence on email. It will be impossible for the administration to minimize it or spin it. You'd be putting the whole administration at risk if someone else has a copy of an email.
Bigger question, are Notre Dame football players not taught about this? Do we really not have someone in SID or compliance who explains to these kids that everything they type and receive on university email might as well be public? I know we spend time and energy monitoring and policing social media, but email can be just as damning, if not worse.
Well nobody told Tressel, so I guess it's probably so.
Irish YJ
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So, you would rather this story potentially break over the next two weeks by yahoo and the NCAA maybe start their own investigation.... potentially the week leading up to our first game, or worse, the UM game. Yep, I'd love that type of last minute surprise.
I trust the school's judgment here. IMO, whatever they found was enough to make them act. At least this way they are controlling the situation, and not reacting.
Irish YJ
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Guessing the others used the same editing services.
I hope it's all that innocent, but my gut is telling me otherwise.
Rudy89
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Football related questions here
1. Put the kool-aid down and objectively speaking is Kiper right? Are we only a 6 win team even I didn't think we would fall that far but is he right?
2. Does this hurt recruiting. If someone is recruiting against us and sees this ordeal he can say "You're a great kid but over there if your teammate messes up your contributions can be vacated by the schools own merit. We won't punish you here if you don't deserve it." Maybe I'm overthinking but hey that's what a forum is for right?
1. Put the kool-aid down and objectively speaking is Kiper right? Are we only a 6 win team even I didn't think we would fall that far but is he right?
2. Does this hurt recruiting. If someone is recruiting against us and sees this ordeal he can say "You're a great kid but over there if your teammate messes up your contributions can be vacated by the schools own merit. We won't punish you here if you don't deserve it." Maybe I'm overthinking but hey that's what a forum is for right?
Actually... I do hope ND would put the well being of the students athletes before the impact of a last minute surprise on a football game.
kmoose
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1. It depends on how the offense comes together. The strength of the offense was never going to be the passing game. It was going (and still is, hopefully) to be the running game. Daniels is the leading receiver returning from last year, but that isn't really saying much, I don't think. He is a solid DI-A receiver, but nothing particularly special, in my view. You'd always like to have the experience, but I don't think it will be too hard for others to take over his production. If the offense comes together like we all hope it will, then losing Williams and Russell will not be a disaster. Their backups are probably not as good as them, but an explosive offense can often turn an opposition into a one dimensional team, and that lessens the impact of losing experience on the defense.
2. The problem is not other coaches telling their kids that they might lose something because of other players' problems. The problem is that opposing coaches can get in kids' ears and tell them, "Look, if you go to Notre Dame, you are going to be spending almost all of your time studying. If you come here, we'll see to it that you have plenty of time to focus on football. Because, after all, what is your dream? To be an accountant, or to play in the NFL? So which one gets you closer to that dream?"
Irish YJ
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I think they are putting the school, the students, and the other ~80 players first.
Keep in mind they did find something that caused them to react this way.
If they have little to no proof, I might agree with you. I for one won't criticize their decision making as I'm sure they know more than me/we, and are probably a bit smarter when it comes to the risk/reward.
WaveDomer
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If the story about DD forwarding emails is true, I have to wonder what takes this amount of time to figure out and investigate. If emails lay it out, it seems pretty easy to take action, but maybe there is more involved. I think the best is just to wait and see what happens. This story has been all over the map since yesterday.
stlnd01
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They learned a very important lesson from the Manti Te'o and Lizzy Seeberg incidents. If you've got bad news coming, break it yourself.
stlnd01
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1: We've got a fairly brutal schedule and could possibly go 6-6. But if we do it won't be because of this. Only Russell is potentially a guy who makes the diff between a win and a loss here. And we've got good talent at corner.
2: Maybe with a few kids (watch Tillery). But not with most of the types we've been getting lately, I don't think. Neg recruiting will depend a lot on how we handle this, but so far so good, I'd say.
Irish YJ
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abso-freakin-lutely.
People will still be talking about it come Rice, but the kids will be prepped to handle the story, and the new starters will be prepared to handle Rice, as much as they can be in two weeks anyway. GO ND.
As I said at first... if they end up innocent!
Irish YJ
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If they are all innocent my friend, I will happy transfer a million vbucks to you. I hope I make that transfer!!
kmoose
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You act like the school is jacking them around. All the school has done is hold them out of football activities, until they are either cleared, or found to have cheated. It's not like they have somehow been wronged by the whole process.
Huntr
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Yeah no joke. There's a ton of difference between what is actually going on right now vs the media story of OMFG NORTE DAM HAS DISMISSED FOOTBALL CATHOLICS CHEATERS JUST LIEK THE REST FAPFAPFAP
BobD
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My wife who doesn't follow football at all sent me these texts messages earlier:
Her: I'm sorry
Me: ??
Her: I just saw on TV about Notre Dame
Me: Yeah it seems like it's always something
Her: Did they build that school on a Indian burial ground?
Her: I'm sorry
Me: ??
Her: I just saw on TV about Notre Dame
Me: Yeah it seems like it's always something
Her: Did they build that school on a Indian burial ground?
Booslum31
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That's good! My wife said that she thought we Irish were luckier that this.
ulukinatme
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What the hell are you talking about, Koon? Did you play football, even in high school? Did you play a sport? I never played in college, but I played football in high school. Getting reps does make you better. You learn from mistakes, you improve technique, you learn aggressiveness, you learn a lot of things that the weight room can't teach you. I was a pretty crappy player when I first started, and honestly I still was a crappy player until I started getting more reps with 1st team players and getting in the groove of things.
I agree that it's important for linemen, especially freshmen and sophomores, to have time to grow and get stronger those first few years. Most players don't come in at the weight you'd like, but there are exceptions. Sometimes you're forced to start guys before they're ready, it happens. You don't want freshmen and sophomores out there, but if they're ahead of your juniors and seniors, it has to happen.
I agree with NDdomer2 on the weight training as well. I always saw more gains in the off season, there's just no way around it. I may have seen some marginal improvements in my lifting during the season, but I also was losing weight because you sweat more during the season. It really is more about maintaining. You have to understand that your time is much more limited during the season as you have classes, and practice, and games, and then you're trying to squeeze in lifting too on top of homework and a social life. Sometimes you can get it all done, but my lifting sessions were typically a 1/2 hour to an hour during the season if I wasn't working too. In the off season I'd lift for at least twice that length of time.
ulukinatme
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Yeah, I told my wife about the news yesterday. She knows I want our boys to play football. She said, jokingly, "I don't know if I want them playing football anymore."
Check this out: http://www.domerdomain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47014
Huntr
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Teensy, tiny grain of salt taken w/that one. Might be true, but tomorrow will be a looooonnnngggg day.
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koonja
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Idk if my point is being missed or what. I'm saying DL IMO can usually benefit from sitting out a year because they can focus on weight training and conditioning.
You seem to agree that most gains in that department come from off season. That's because in season, you don't lift as much. If these freshman know they are not playing, they can lift more/harder, because they don't have to save themselves for gameday. Besides, RS still get practice reps.
I'm not saying there's no benefit to real reps as a true frosh DL, just that IMO the year of weight training is more important for the guys that don't come in as 5 stars.
Never played college anything, twice first time all conference RB, once 2nd team all state in high school (admittedly. I was a little overrated). Also ran track and played basketball.
You seem to agree that most gains in that department come from off season. That's because in season, you don't lift as much. If these freshman know they are not playing, they can lift more/harder, because they don't have to save themselves for gameday. Besides, RS still get practice reps.
I'm not saying there's no benefit to real reps as a true frosh DL, just that IMO the year of weight training is more important for the guys that don't come in as 5 stars.
Never played college anything, twice first time all conference RB, once 2nd team all state in high school (admittedly. I was a little overrated). Also ran track and played basketball.
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Bogtrotter07
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I was just talking to a friend, ND grad, and professor at another university, (as well, his wife) and they told me stories that would make you cry, while laughing.
One kid stole the team referred doctor's pad and wrote him an excuse from class because he had "kidney cancer" and was awaiting a transplant. When my friend's wife responded to the ire expressed at turning him in, she replied, "if he would have attended class, he would have learned cancer (of the kidney) patients are not candidates for transplants!
My friend has had players who copied whole articles including the original articles references, and reference to more information. Internet adds have appeared suspiciously in the middle of text, also.
So that makes this all so ironic. I am sure that if this happened as many are connecting the dots, DD may have made the points, but this girl did the presentation.
Then when she was contacted she may have freaked, and given up anything and everything she could think of. She may have implicated others by inference, having no direct proof. It seems clear that some of the transgressions were two years ago.
Which, one would think would include KVR and IW in their freshman year. It may have been one assignment, or the proof may not be their to make a clear case. So that is why Father Jenkins went out of his way to state the range of punishments.
In fact, the idea of someone at the NCAA leaking this to the national reporters also makes good sense. That is why the thing got so blown out of proportion.
People without integrity, (read NCAA and reporters) couldn't understand people with integrity taking these steps unless it was a really bad situation. But they don't understand the perspective ND works from.
And most of the reports could have concerned players from the past (maybe even recruited before Kelly, hmmm!), or players from non football backgrounds. We won't know for a while.
And as someone very early said this could be the result of a romantic relationship, bending to do work, as opposed to the other way around.
The other thing my friend told me is that he was a student-tutor (part time as the norm was then) in the 50's and was paid about $10 per hour then, a phenomenal amount for the day. He said their were many part time tutors, some working as little as an hour or so a week. They would take a rough draft of a paper and edit it. Or even help type it. (I was allowed to, and used one of the Dean's secretaries to type my college papers. She was a family friend and found a whole bunch of mistakes, that I would take back and rewrite before she would finish the paper. It was the closest I ever came to cheating.
My friend also told me, complete with names, about a cheating scandal at West Point and at Navy. It seems old Joe Kennedy offered these kids that were expelled, (about 30 of them) a full ride at ND. And he got them admitted, too. My friend told me that most lived in his dorm, and then he told me, "When I said our inter-hall squad was better than a lot of college teams, I meant it. All that took the ND offer had to agree not to play intercollegiate sports. Cool story, huh, bro?
One kid stole the team referred doctor's pad and wrote him an excuse from class because he had "kidney cancer" and was awaiting a transplant. When my friend's wife responded to the ire expressed at turning him in, she replied, "if he would have attended class, he would have learned cancer (of the kidney) patients are not candidates for transplants!
My friend has had players who copied whole articles including the original articles references, and reference to more information. Internet adds have appeared suspiciously in the middle of text, also.
So that makes this all so ironic. I am sure that if this happened as many are connecting the dots, DD may have made the points, but this girl did the presentation.
Then when she was contacted she may have freaked, and given up anything and everything she could think of. She may have implicated others by inference, having no direct proof. It seems clear that some of the transgressions were two years ago.
Which, one would think would include KVR and IW in their freshman year. It may have been one assignment, or the proof may not be their to make a clear case. So that is why Father Jenkins went out of his way to state the range of punishments.
In fact, the idea of someone at the NCAA leaking this to the national reporters also makes good sense. That is why the thing got so blown out of proportion.
People without integrity, (read NCAA and reporters) couldn't understand people with integrity taking these steps unless it was a really bad situation. But they don't understand the perspective ND works from.
And most of the reports could have concerned players from the past (maybe even recruited before Kelly, hmmm!), or players from non football backgrounds. We won't know for a while.
And as someone very early said this could be the result of a romantic relationship, bending to do work, as opposed to the other way around.
The other thing my friend told me is that he was a student-tutor (part time as the norm was then) in the 50's and was paid about $10 per hour then, a phenomenal amount for the day. He said their were many part time tutors, some working as little as an hour or so a week. They would take a rough draft of a paper and edit it. Or even help type it. (I was allowed to, and used one of the Dean's secretaries to type my college papers. She was a family friend and found a whole bunch of mistakes, that I would take back and rewrite before she would finish the paper. It was the closest I ever came to cheating.
My friend also told me, complete with names, about a cheating scandal at West Point and at Navy. It seems old Joe Kennedy offered these kids that were expelled, (about 30 of them) a full ride at ND. And he got them admitted, too. My friend told me that most lived in his dorm, and then he told me, "When I said our inter-hall squad was better than a lot of college teams, I meant it. All that took the ND offer had to agree not to play intercollegiate sports. Cool story, huh, bro?
Veritate Duce Progredi
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I might offer to do something outrageous for the board if that thread is correct. I'm trying to think of what i could do, we have naked laps and booger eating. Decisions, decisions.
I'd be elated if those two make it back to the team: I want Daniels to prove he hasn't been a complete train wreck and I want KR to dominate!
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