'16 OH OT Tommy Kraemer (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Ironman8 posted the following a few months ago:



That's obviously not showing up on the field yet, but we should start seeing it in a major way starting this season. We've out-recruited 'Bama, Stanford and Wisconsin on OL by pretty significant margins. So while you're technically justified in adopting a "Show Me" attitude, Crusader is also justified in arguing that we've got the most talented OL (at least on paper) in the country. And Hiestand shows no sign of slowing down his dominance on the recruiting trail.

Our pass blocking has been elite, which is what we need for a pass-first spread which I think is the assumption by most is what Kelly wants eventually (this year?). Besides, Heistand's classes are just getting out of their redshirt year, so it's far to early to make a determination on "his guys". We've already had a 1st and 3rd round pick off last year's line, along with (IMO) Stanley working his way to being a high draft pick, and Nick Martin playing very well as first year starter. No, we don't have a 'Bama level O-line (which I'd like to remind everyone fell apart in pass protection vs Oklahoma last year), but it's hard not to be excited for the future.

 

[woolybug25]

Ironman8 posted the following a few months ago:



That's obviously not showing up on the field yet, but we should start seeing it in a major way starting this season. We've out-recruited 'Bama, Stanford and Wisconsin on OL by pretty significant margins. So while you're technically justified in adopting a "Show Me" attitude, Crusader is also justified in arguing that we've got the most talented OL (at least on paper) in the country. And Hiestand shows no sign of slowing down his dominance on the recruiting trail.

While I wholeheartingly agree with the sentiment, per the composites you posted, we haven't out-recruited our peers "by a significant margin". Our composites is .0077 - .0303 higher respectfully to Bama/Stan. With Bama having two additional recruits. I wouldn't call that a significant margin by any means. Some might even take Bama's classes over ours because of the additional depth of two highly rated recruits.

But that is all aside from the point. We have objectively recruited as good, if not better, than all of college football. That will pay dividends.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

While I wholeheartingly agree with the sentiment, per the composites you posted, we haven't out-recruited our peers "by a significant margin". Our composites is .0077 - .0303 higher respectfully to Bama/Stan. With Bama having two additional recruits. I wouldn't call that a significant margin by any means. Some might even take Bama's classes over ours because of the additional depth of two highly rated recruits.

4 star recruits start at 0.8901 on 247's Composite. Since the entire gamut of "elite" players--from the lowest-rated 4 to the consensus #1 player in the country-- is differentiated by a mere ~0.11 in rating, disparities in average rating of 0.0222 (for 'Bama) and 0.0303 (for Stanford) are statistically significant. That amounts to a 20% and 28% difference, respectively.

 

[Irish#1]

Our pass blocking has been elite, which is what we need for a pass-first spread which I think is the assumption by most is what Kelly wants eventually (this year?). Besides, Heistand's classes are just getting out of their redshirt year, so it's far to early to make a determination on "his guys". We've already had a 1st and 3rd round pick off last year's line, along with (IMO) Stanley working his way to being a high draft pick, and Nick Martin playing very well as first year starter. No, we don't have a 'Bama level O-line (which I'd like to remind everyone fell apart in pass protection vs Oklahoma last year), but it's hard not to be excited for the future.

Bama had a good line. I think the biggest problem is everyone tends to think of their 2012 line (which doesn't come along that often) for comparison.

 

[woolybug25]

4 star recruits start at 0.8901 on 247's Composite. Since the entire gamut of "elite" players--from the lowest-rated 4 to the consensus #1 player in the country-- is differentiated by a mere ~0.11 in rating, disparities in average rating of 0.0222 (for 'Bama) and 0.0303 (for Stanford) are statistically significant. That amounts to a 20% and 28% difference, respectively.

Not sure that I am with you here. So you are saying if you only look at 4-5 star players and use the same percentages, our classes are 20-28% better? I'm not sure that makes sense, as the total scale is .0000 - 1.0000. Not including the entire pool of players doesn't seem to make sense, especially if you aren't taking players that aren't 4/5 stars out of the composite ranking for each team.

What am I missing?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not sure that I am with you here. So you are saying if you only look at 4-5 star players and use the same percentages, our classes are 20-28% better? I'm not sure that makes sense, as the total scale is .0000 - 1.0000. Not including the entire pool of players doesn't seem to make sense, especially if you aren't taking players that aren't 4/5 stars out of the composite ranking for each team.

What am I missing?

I don't think you're missing anything, really. It just depends on how you want to frame the comparison. All 9 of the schools listed above are elite programs that regularly compete for the best national recruits. For 7 of the 9, their 2-year OL recruiting average is 4 quality. If don't think there are significant differences in quality among the top ~250 players in the country, then it's fair to argue that ND's OL haul isn't "significantly" better than 'Bama's or Stanford's.

But if you think: (1) that it's a given that these 9 schools are going to have highly rated classes, and (2) that there are significant differences in quality among the top ~250 players in the country, then a 20-30% disparity within that 4 range is potentially significant. That's my only point.

 

[irishog77]

What 12 OL did ND get in a 2 year stretch anyway? What 14 OL did Alabama and Florida get in that same stretch?

When has ND ever gotten 12 OL in 2 years, since the scholarship reduction to 85?

 

[Rocket 94]

It must be a 3 year haul (13, 14 and 15)

13

Elmer
McGlinchney
Montelus
Biven
McGovern

14

Bars
Nelson
Byrne
Mustipher

15

Tillery
Hoge
Ruhland

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>2016 Ohio OL Tommy Kraemer (<a href="https://twitter.com/Big_TK75">@Big_TK75</a>) content with current top 5 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BC?src=hash">#BC</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash">#Duke</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Northwestern?src=hash">#Northwestern</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OSU?src=hash">#OSU</a> (Premium) <a href="http://t.co/J5AG8xIWnU">http://t.co/J5AG8xIWnU</a></p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/statuses/494106085943296000">July 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

He was #20 in the rivals rankings for 2016

 

[yankeeND]

He was #20 in the rivals rankings for 2016

Seriously though, getting Tommy and Liam would be stupid good. Probably my two biggest wants for next year to (wishfully thinking) block for Patterson and SoSo.

 

[rtrn2glory]

no ann arbor in the top 5? thought they would be a major player here.

looks like if we can beat out urban we're golden here?

 

[STLDomer]

no ann arbor in the top 5? thought they would be a major player here.

looks like if we can beat out urban we're golden here?

Doesn't have a Michigan offer

 

[arrowryan]

no ann arbor in the top 5? thought they would be a major player here.

looks like if we can beat out urban we're golden here?

A recent Scout article said that Michigan will offer him if he visits.

 

[KPENN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>2016 Ohio OL Tommy Kraemer (<a href="https://twitter.com/Big_TK75">@Big_TK75</a>) content with current top 5 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BC?src=hash">#BC</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash">#Duke</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Northwestern?src=hash">#Northwestern</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OSU?src=hash">#OSU</a> (Premium) <a href="http://t.co/J5AG8xIWnU">http://t.co/J5AG8xIWnU</a></p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/statuses/494106085943296000">July 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

One of these things is not like that others.

 

[Rack Em]

One of these things is not like that others.

Notre Dame is a Catholic school!!1!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Notre Dame is a Catholic school!!1!

Were the Jesuits recently excommunicated?

 

[dang227]

'16 OH OT Tommy Kraemer (Offer)

'16 OH OT Tommy Kraemer (Offer)

Wrong thread

 

[STLDomer]

Were the Jesuits recently excommunicated?

Should be. So damn liberal!!

 

[Irish#1]

One of these things is not like that others.

Correct, one excels in football and academics.


The academics stand out on this list. That tells me we are in a really good position with this kid. I think OSU is on that list because he's an Ohio kid, but his list tells me he has other priorities.

 

[gkIrish]

OSU is the 52nd ranked undergraduate university. You're all acting like it's Miss. St.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

OSU is the 52nd ranked undergraduate university. You're all acting like it's Miss. St.

Duke, BC, ND and Northwestern are all in the top 5 for Football GSR.

OSU, as the only football factory on his list, is a clear outlier. Pointing that out isn't elitist, or unfair to the Buckeyes.

As Irish#1 mentioned, he's likely giving OSU a look as the hometown team. But OSU shouldn't like their chances based on Kraemer's Top 5. He's clearly prioritizing degree value here.

 

[gkIrish]

Duke, BC, ND and Northwestern are all in the top 5 for Football GSR.

OSU, as the only football factory on his list, is a clear outlier. Pointing that out isn't elitist, or unfair to the Buckeyes.

I hear ya, but as far as we know this isn't the type of information recruits are well-informed about. So to infer that the recruit won't pick OSU because it's not an elite academic institution is kind of a stretch. That was the vibe I got from a few posts.

If the kid wants to live and work in Ohio (especially Columbus) after football, OSU offers him a great opportunity. Former football players get treated very well by local companies and many prefer OSU grads to anything else.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I hear ya, but as far as we know this isn't the type of information recruits are well-informed about. So to infer that the recruit won't pick OSU because it's not an elite academic institution is kind of a stretch. That was the vibe I got from a few posts.

If the kid wants to live and work in Ohio (especially Columbus) after football, OSU offers him a great opportunity. Former football players get treated very well by local companies and many prefer an OSU grads to anything else.

To add to this, what if his dream is to be an Ohio HS teacher and coach football? You don't need an elite degree to do that well.

 

[STLDomer]

Considering he has a Vanderbilt offer and judging by the rest of his Top 5 it would make more sense if they replaced OSU.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I hear ya, but as far as we know this isn't the type of information recruits are well-informed about. So to infer that the recruit won't pick OSU because it's not an elite academic institution is kind of a stretch. That was the vibe I got from a few posts.

If the kid wants to live and work in Ohio (especially Columbus) after football, OSU offers him a great opportunity. Former football players get treated very well by local companies and many prefer OSU grads to anything else.

I'm making some pretty simple inferences from that list of schools. Kraemer's got Duke, ND, BC and Northwestern in his Top 5. What do those schools have in common? Not much besides elite degree value/ GSR.

As an Ohio native, including OSU (a clear outlier here) makes sense for other reasons. And maybe, as you and Buster have pointed out, OSU is his dream school, so the other 4 schools are filler. But that's not a very logical inference to make from that list. The much more likely explanation is that he's prioritizing degree value (as many OL seem to do), and OSU is the toss-in as the home town program.

If I were a Buckeye fan, I wouldn't feel good about that Top 5.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm making some pretty simple inferences from that list of schools. Kraemer's got Duke, ND, BC and Northwestern in his Top 5. What do those schools have in common? Not much besides elite degree value/ GSR.

As an Ohio native, including OSU (a clear outlier here) makes sense for other reasons. And maybe, as you and Buster have pointed out, OSU is his dream school, so the other 4 schools are filler. But that's not a very logical inference to make from that list. The much more likely explanation is that he's prioritizing degree value (as many OL seem to do), and OSU is the toss-in as the home town program.

If I were a Buckeye fan, I wouldn't feel good about that Top 5.

Well yeah, he's from a Catholic, academically solid, Ohio HS. All of those schools fall somewhere in there.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Did anyone actually read the article though? What does it say? haha

 

[yankeeND]

I'm making some pretty simple inferences from that list of schools. Kraemer's got Duke, ND, BC and Northwestern in his Top 5. What do those schools have in common? Not much besides elite degree value/ GSR.

As an Ohio native, including OSU (a clear outlier here) makes sense for other reasons. And maybe, as you and Buster have pointed out, OSU is his dream school, so the other 4 schools are filler. But that's not a very logical inference to make from that list. The much more likely explanation is that he's prioritizing degree value (as many OL seem to do), and OSU is the toss-in as the home town program.

If I were a Buckeye fan, I wouldn't feel good about that Top 5.

Yeah, whatever his dreams are, having those four in his top 5 to go along with the in-state power speaks volumes to me. Could maybe be a similar kid to Tillery? An ND kid stuck in the wrong part of the country. I feel good about both these kids being Irish when all is said and done.

 

[Irish_irish]

Please login |

Thought the above would have been posted by now.

Going to ND vs Michigan and ND vs Stanford. Only other game scheduled right now in OSU vs Michigan. Aside from him going to two ND games, the biggest take away from the article was that he went to a couple of games"as a fan" when he was younger.

ND could really pull in an elite class on the OL next year. Does anyone know if Eichenberg is a possibility for the Michigan game? Getting Kraemer, Eichenberg and Bredeson on campus together for that game could be huge.