Notre Dame Switching to UnderArmour

[BobbyMac]

You don't thinkkids like ND because they grew up watching them and rooting for them, and would do so whether or not they were a private Catholic University?

Or you don't think a player could come here because the depth chart looks good, the location is great, or he loves the coach, family atmosphere, etc?

I seriously bet someone's come through ND, been a non-believer and still loved ND.

Bingo koonja...

and that same player would still come if they slap a cross logo on the helmet.

checkmate.

 

[gkIrish]

I'll say this....IMO there's a much greater chance a kid would choose not to come to a school because there's a cross on the uniform than the other way around.

 

[Cackalacky]

You can't intelligently love ND and be an atheist. It's like being a fan of the electric chair but against the death penalty. Putting a cross on a uniform isn't going to scare away a kid who is considering the most famous Catholic university in the world. It makes no sense.

 

[IrishLion]

Putting a cross on a uniform isn't going to scare away a kid who is considering the most famous Catholic university in the world. It makes no sense.

It's not going to scare away kids that are already considering ND... but it might eliminate the school from contention for other prospects that might "misunderstand" the religious aspect of the university, by reinforcing a belief that "you must be devout" to attend ND.

I don't have a problem with a cross decal on the helmet or something like that, for the record. But I could see how it would turn some prospects off. It's one thing to know that an institution is religious. It's another to see that religion displayed on a football uniform, which might make them apprehensive of any "religious pressure" they might experience, if you will.

 

[koonja]

Bingo koonja...

and that same player would still come if they slap a cross logo on the helmet.

checkmate.[/QUOTE]

I'll say this....IMO there's a much greater chance a kid would choose not to come to a school because there's a cross on the uniform than the other way around.

Agree to disagree.

^ This is my take.

 

[gkIrish]

You can't intelligently love ND and be an atheist. It's like being a fan of the electric chair but against the death penalty. Putting a cross on a uniform isn't going to scare away a kid who is considering the most famous Catholic university in the world. It makes no sense.

Are you an Alumni?

 

[ResLife Hero]

You can't intelligently love ND and be an atheist. It's like being a fan of the electric chair but against the death penalty. Putting a cross on a uniform isn't going to scare away a kid who is considering the most famous Catholic university in the world. It makes no sense.

Not trying to be a snobbish alum, but did you go to Notre Dame? This statement is completely counter to how the University approaches the topic of atheism and other faith practices.

The Spirit of Inclusion at Notre Dame // du Lac: A Guide to Student Life // University of Notre Dame

 

[wizards8507]

Doing the religious stuff behind closed doors is one thing, but directly representing a religion (and being the 1st to do so) on national TV would be very different for me if I was a non-believer.

That's a remarkably un-Christian stance to take on Christianity. We're not called to live our faith "behind closed doors," but to spread the Good News. If a non-believer were to receive the message and turn away, so be it. That's no reason not to deliver the message.

You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

I'll say this....IMO there's a much greater chance a kid would choose not to come to a school because there's a cross on the uniform than the other way around.

Um... so what? I can sit here all day and listen to people argue in favor of compromised tradition and academic standards, but now you're saying we should compromise our Christianity in the name of recruiting?

 

[BobbyMac]

I'll say this....IMO there's a much greater chance a kid would choose not to come to a school because there's a cross on the uniform than the other way around.

Much greater? meh...

Logically, you'd have to say every level of christian symbolism that you add to the University's athletic program would increase the odds that some recruit might not chose ND but to say it is MUCH GREATER is a huge stretch.

I can tell you that Oral Roberts basketball teams or the 80's were the most villainous group of thugs ever assembled... and that university is the definition of outwardly Christian. They pas a collection plate after every made 3.

 

[ResLife Hero]

.

 

[BobbyMac]

To the two that asked, no I am not an ND grad. I went to Valpo, the Lutheran version. Both schools do a great job of being inclusive and tolerant while still providing a spiritual atmosphere to promote personal growth.

I am by no means saying that ND is not inclusive to atheists, nor do I say they should try to build walls to keep them away but to deny any aspect to why your institution was built is nothing short of silly.

I am not calling for a cross on the helmet or to turn ND into Jerry Falwell's Liberty U. but I wouldn't lose sleep and ND wouldn't lose a single recruit if they did go with a cross motif on a special Shamrock Series uniform.

 

[Cackalacky]

To the two that asked, no I am not an ND grad. I went to Valpo, the Lutheran version. Both schools do a great job of being inclusive and tolerant while still providing a spiritual atmosphere to promote personal growth.

I am by no means saying that ND is not inclusive to atheists, nor do I say they should try to build walls to keep them away but to deny any aspect to why your institution was built is nothing short of silly.

I am not calling for a cross on the helmet or to turn ND into Jerry Falwell's Liberty U. but I wouldn't lose sleep and ND wouldn't lose a single recruit if they did go with a cross motif on a special Shamrock Series uniform.

They most certainly would limit their access to elite talent, particularly from the south. Not even debatable. Byron Cowart's statements show this. Additionally, LDS kids have also shown hesitation in attending a Catholic institution.

 

[ResLife Hero]

I am by no means saying that ND is not inclusive to atheists, nor do I say they should try to build walls to keep them away but to deny any aspect to why your institution was built is nothing short of silly.

I mainly took issue with your comment that an atheist couldn't intelligently love Notre Dame. There are innumerable reasons to love that institution, and for some it's the Catholic identity, but for others it's the exceptional business school that stresses ethics to a higher level than its peers or the team their Grandfather would never miss a game for.

Believe me, Notre Dame is not compromising its Catholic identity. What role putting a cross on a uniform plays in that, I don't know nor do I really care. I just wanted to emphasize that while Catholicism is at the core of the University's identity, it is by no means all she has to offer and love.

 

[koonja]

If anyone should put a cross on their helmet, it should be BC. After all, they have better Christians.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p0Y7yjxJVlc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[koonja]

BusterBluth is athiest, intelligent, and he loves Notre Dame, so we don't even have to travel off of this board to prove your claim false.

 

[gkIrish]

Um... so what? I can sit here all day and listen to people argue in favor of compromised tradition and academic standards, but now you're saying we should compromise our Christianity in the name of recruiting?

Lol dude. So now NOT doing something is compromising Notre Dame's religious identity? wut

 

[wizards8507]

Lol dude. So now NOT doing something is compromising Notre Dame's religious identity? wut

No, that's not what I said. I don't care if they put a cross on their uniforms, but I don't think "losing recruits" should even come into the conversation of reasons not to do it if they were to otherwise consider it.

 

[gkIrish]

No, that's not what I said. I don't care if they put a cross on their uniforms, but I don't think "losing recruits" should even come into the conversation of reasons not to do it if they were to otherwise consider it.

I have a long response typed out but I'm getting an Internal Server error message.

 

[gkIrish]

@Wizards

Considering we are talking about the football team and not the selection of President of the University I don't see why it shouldn't be considered.

Have you ever considered why we have a football team? I'm not talking about why/how the football team was started. I'm talking about why we still have one.

The football team is a tool to attract qualified students to the University and to increase exposure. Notre Dame can't spread their Catholic mission if no one is listening. We have those segments on NBC at halftime about our students going on service projects or some new research discovery that a professor made. We don't get to show the world all that without having a nationally televised football game.

 

[gkIrish]

Our alumni are passionate in large part due to football. Passionate alumni = big donations and jobs for our students. Exposure leads to more applications from qualified prospective students.

What I'm getting at is that the goal of the football team is to be SUCCESSFUL so that the other goals of the University can be achieved more easily through donations, exposure, etc.

 

[wizards8507]

Our alumni are passionate in large part due to football. Passionate alumni = big donations and jobs for our students. Exposure leads to more applications from qualified prospective students.

What I'm getting at is that the goal of the football team is to be SUCCESSFUL so that the other goals of the University can be achieved more easily through donations, exposure, etc.

That's kind of "ends justify the means" thinking though, isn't it? We should do X because it will help us do Y, and Y is a really good thing.

 

[gkIrish]

That's kind of "ends justify the means" thinking though, isn't it? We should do X because it will help us do Y, and Y is a really good thing.

Yeah except it's not black and white. You can't do something that contradicts your mission (i.e. sell drugs) if that will help achieve Y. But choosing not to slap a cross on our uniforms because that's a potential detriment to recruiting going forward is certainly not contrary to the University's mission and does help achieve Y.

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah except it's not black and white. You can't do something that contradicts your mission (i.e. sell drugs) if that will help achieve Y. But choosing not to slap a cross on our uniforms because that's a potential detriment to recruiting going forward is certainly not contrary to the University's mission and does help achieve Y.

I get it as it relates to a cross on the uniform. I went down this rabbit hole in response to koon and others who suggested that ND should express Catholicism only "behind closed doors." I understand that the absence of a cross on our football jerseys really has nothing to do with the University's mission, but a lot of the reasons why folks would object to it relates to a broader attitude about open expressions of faith in general.

 

[BobbyMac]

I get it as it relates to a cross on the uniform. I went down this rabbit hole in response to koon and others who suggested that ND should express Catholicism only "behind closed doors." I understand that the absence of a cross on our football jerseys really has nothing to do with the University's mission, but a lot of the reasons why folks would object to it relates to a broader attitude about open expressions of faith in general.

This x1000

 

[NDohio]

I didn't read his post until now, but I disagree with him.

Doing the religious stuff behind closed doors is one thing, but directly representing a religion (and being the 1st to do so) on national TV would be very different for me if I was a non-believer.

So, having a huge mural of Jesus on the outside of a building, that is directly behind the stadium, that is shown on TV every single time ND is on TV, isn't a direct representation of religion?

 

[BobbyMac]

So, having a huge mural of Jesus on the outside of a building, that is directly behind the stadium, that is shown on TV every single time ND is on TV, isn't a direct representation of religion?

I just wrote that in a long reply that timed out and lost.

That and Providence College obviously lost the '73 and '87 basketball championships because the Friar mascot scared away the recruits that would have won it all for them instead of just getting to the Final Four.

.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So, having a huge mural of Jesus on the outside of a building, that is directly behind the stadium, that is shown on TV every single time ND is on TV, isn't a direct representation of religion?

So to bring this all the way back around to Under Armour, we should put the UA logo on the clothes of Jesus.

 

[NDBoiler]

So to bring this all the way back around to Under Armour, we should put the UA logo on the clothes of Jesus.

A UA tunic, I like it.

Better yet, how awesome would a UA ND snuggie be?

 

[koonja]

I get it as it relates to a cross on the uniform. I went down this rabbit hole in response to koon and others who suggested that ND should express Catholicism only "behind closed doors." I understand that the absence of a cross on our football jerseys really has nothing to do with the University's mission, but a lot of the reasons why folks would object to it relates to a broader attitude about open expressions of faith in general.

So, having a huge mural of Jesus on the outside of a building, that is directly behind the stadium, that is shown on TV every single time ND is on TV, isn't a direct representation of religion?

It sounds bad when you put it like that, lol. I simply think our students/athletes shouldn't be forced to wear a logo of one religion or another, and I think if we did that, it would do more harm than good to the football team.

Having buildings symbolic of religion and forcing our players to individually sport a religious logo are very different, IMO.

 

[gkIrish]

So to bring this all the way back around to Under Armour, we should put the UA logo on the clothes of Jesus.