'15 OH LB Justin Hilliard (Ohio State Verbal)

[Irish#1]

We are in better shape then most think. Personally I think we took took back the lead from OSU about a week or so ago and this weekend went a long was in solidifying ND as his pick.

 

[magogian]

Who else has given up hope?

 

[jerboski]

We are in better shape then most think. Personally I think we took took back the lead from OSU about a week or so ago and this weekend went a long was in solidifying ND as his pick.

When Steve W. changes his CB that's when I'll have faith

 

[TheTurningPoint]

We really fucked Hubbard recruitment. Oooo wait it's another one of Diacos fuck ups.

What LB would you like Hubbard to replace? I wouldnt take Hubbard over any of the LBs we brought in last year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

What LB would you like Hubbard to replace? I wouldnt take Hubbard over any of the LBs we brought in last year.

This. Sykes, while low-rated, is a freakin' missle. Hill could end up being one of the best pass-rushing LB's in the country with insane athleticism. Martini is a real unknown to me, since there wasn't much noise about him, but that was probably because he committed really early.

 

[JD Irish]

What LB would you like Hubbard to replace? I wouldnt take Hubbard over any of the LBs we brought in last year.

Martini? Sykes? Tranquill? I appreciate some of your insight but sometimes your defense of every decision the program makes lessens your credibility a bit, in my opinion.

 

[NCND]

Martini? Sykes? Tranquill? I appreciate some of your insight but sometimes your defense of every decision the program makes lessens your credibility a bit, in my opinion.

Clap, Clap. Hubbard was a big time prospect.

 

[Goldedommer44]

I don't believe he is criticizing any decision that the program has made. He is simply asking a question who would Hilllard replace from last years pick ups? I personally think it is A legitimate question

 

[Ironman8]

He could replace EV. Let's call it even.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't believe he is criticizing any decision that the program has made. He is simply asking a question who would Hilllard replace from last years pick ups? I personally think it is A legitimate question

And the response - also legitimate - is that Hubbard was a much higher-rated prospect than all but one of the people at his position that we signed last year.
I don't know what the right answer is (or what the point is of hashing this out yet again in another recruit's thread). But it's reasonable to think we missed the boat on that one.
Back to Hilliard...

 

[Luckylucci]

This conversation gets more interesting with scheme change. Hubbard not getting an offering was more mind blowing then than it would be now because he was a perfect OLB prospect for the 3-4. In BVG's scheme I'm not sure he would be a fit at LB. Might end up being a WDE and what is his value at that position is kind of unknown. He is such a good athlete at that size you should recruit and offer no matter what scheme but it's a fun conversation.

 

[IrishLax]

What LB would you like Hubbard to replace? I wouldnt take Hubbard over any of the LBs we brought in last year.

He's 100x better as a versatile prospect than Martini now that we've moved to a 4-3. He plays a different role than Morgan/Sykes. I love me some Tranquill, but I'd probably take Hubbard over him.

Hubbard could play anything from SAM to TE to safety to even rush DE.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Martini? Sykes? Tranquill? I appreciate some of your insight but sometimes your defense of every decision the program makes lessens your credibility a bit, in my opinion.

Im quite the opposite actually. And you want Hubbard over two inside linebackers? That doesnt make any sense. Hubbard is a 6'6 230lb outside LB and not an inside player. Ben Councell coming out of high school is twice the player that Hubbard is and he hasnt found a position, let alone consistent playing time. Notre Dame also had a player committed 2 years ago that was better than Hubbard and no one liked in Danny Mattingly.

Hubbard isnt going to solve the problem at middle linebacker. Sykes, Martini, Morgan are going to be fighting for that along with Deeb/Randolph and Tranquill has the ability to move inside if need be.

Could he fill a OLB void? Maybe? He has no film pass rushing bc he played safety in high school. He was good at supporting the run from a safety spot, but theres literally nothing of him in the box playing the run. I would have hesitations on taking a LB project when there is no film of him in the box when you are transitioning to a 4-3. Tranquill has shown the ability to get off blocks in the box and the ability to scrape while making the right reads consistently.

Could he have been a CAT with his build? He fits into the Okwara/Ishaq build. But then why didnt Diaco want him? He is the exact prototype that Diaco wanted for that position.

I mean clearly he isnt going to play safety in college. Not even mobility or speed to cover the ground he would need to.

If you argued that we should have taken him as a Tight End I might be on board but we have two non projects there. I dont really know where either. I think he can be a good LB with his athleticsm and size, but they have never had the bigger LBs.

I think that bc he was committed to play a sport at Notre Dame people think Notre Dame dropped the ball on him. They were obviously aware of his football talents bc they were going to let him walk-on. I mean he is the prototypical 3 star athlete with no position. Tranquill was rated in the same area as Hubbard but has the ability to play all 3 LB positions and both safety positions. Hubbard has the ability to play OLB and DE which he has never played nor has film on? I mean BK has made a living on switching guys around to different positions on both sides of the ball so its very telling they didnt see a position for Hubbard.

 

[IrishLax]

Im quite the opposite actually. And you want Hubbard over two inside linebackers? That doesnt make any sense. Hubbard is a 6'6 230lb outside LB and not an inside player. Ben Councell coming out of high school is twice the player that Hubbard is and he hasnt found a position, let alone consistent playing time. Notre Dame also had a player committed 2 years ago that was better than Hubbard and no one liked in Danny Mattingly.

Hubbard isnt going to solve the problem at middle linebacker. Sykes, Martini, Morgan are going to be fighting for that along with Deeb/Randolph and Tranquill has the ability to move inside if need be.

Could he fill a OLB void? Maybe? He has no film pass rushing bc he played safety in high school. He was good at supporting the run from a safety spot, but theres literally nothing of him in the box playing the run. I would have hesitations on taking a LB project when there is no film of him in the box when you are transitioning to a 4-3.

Could he have been a CAT with his build? He fits into the Okwara/Ishaq build. But then why didnt Diaco want him?

I mean clearly he isnt going to play safety in college. Not even mobility or speed to cover the ground he would need to.

If you argued that we should have taken him as a Tight End I might be on board but we have two none projects there. I dont really know where either. I think he can be a good LB with his athleticsm and size, but they have never had the bigger LBs.

I think that bc he was committed to play a sport at Notre Dame people think Notre Dame dropped the ball on him. They were obviously aware of his football talents bc they were going to let him walk-on.

Mattingly can't even hold Hubbard's jock strap.

"Going to let him walk on" is bullshit considering literally every school he sent his tape to offered immediately. That's called not being able to recognize talent by Diaco.

Also, Diaco DID offer him... just way too late, because he was almost as lazy as Golfingham and couldn't be bothered to be an attentive recruiter. So how can you act like he couldn't play here when he did get an offer and has the versatility to play a hundred different positions? He's like a leaner Troy Niklas before Troy Niklas was a guy with a home.

And we were going to "let him walk on"....

 

[Crazy Balki]

Mattingly can't even hold Hubbard's jock strap.

"Going to let him walk on" is bullshit considering literally every school he sent his tape to offered immediately. That's called not being able to recognize talent by Diaco.

Also, Diaco DID offer him... just way too late, because he was almost as lazy as Golfingham and couldn't be bothered to be an attentive recruiter. So how can you act like he couldn't play here when he did get an offer and has the versatility to play a hundred different positions? He's like a leaner Troy Niklas before Troy Niklas was a guy with a home.

And we were going to "let him walk on"....

Yeah, but a lot of those schools didn't even figure out Kolin Hill until ND found him, so there's that...

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah, but a lot of those schools didn't even figure out Kolin Hill until ND found him, so there's that...

Oh absolutely. You win some, you lose some.

Kolin Hill was a GEM and a huge win. Thanks Kerry Cooks for that. I LOVE Hill's potential. Same with Jhonny Williams... that was a great snag from Mizzou... he has insane upside.

Hubbard was a very disappointing miss.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Mattingly can't even hold Hubbard's jock strap.

"Going to let him walk on" is bullshit considering literally every school he sent his tape to offered immediately. That's called not being able to recognize talent by Diaco.

Also, Diaco DID offer him... just way too late, because he was almost as lazy as Golfingham and couldn't be bothered to be an attentive recruiter. So how can you act like he couldn't play here when he did get an offer and has the versatility to play a hundred different positions? He's like a leaner Troy Niklas before Troy Niklas was a guy with a home.

And we were going to "let him walk on"....

What does he do good? I just watched his film twice. I dont see anything he does well other than play the ball in the air well and he is big and athletic.

I was basing his offer off of the info Rivals and 247 provided and neither have him with a ND offer. And when he committed to play LAX at Notre Dame, he was going to walk-on to the Notre Dame Football team as well...that is what I was referring too.

Im not saying he isnt or wouldnt be a good player. Im saying he has no position, much less any experience playing DE/OLB. Ill take the the guys we got bc they fill need. Hubbard doesnt fill a need.

Justin Hilliard fills a need. Barajas fills a need. Hubbard would have filled an athlete that has no position need. I think he would make a hell of a tight end with his ball skills and his size. But I really wouldnt take him over Weishar bc Weishar is phenomenal at route running, and Luatua is so damn good run blocking. We dont throw fades anymore so Hubbard is worthless in the redzone. Hell Corey Robinson didnt get a fade thrown to him all year.

 

[yankeeND]

I think Hubbard is a good prospect, but to be honest I am more upset that he is not gonna be playing lacrosse here. I'm really starting to get into following the sport and I love the product ND is putting out there. As far as football goes, I do kind that Diaco dropped the ball on this one. He was on team Jacob instead of team Hubbard as apparently he likes werewolves better. Ba dum che

 

[TheTurningPoint]

I think Hubbard is a good prospect, but to be honest I am more upset that he is not gonna be playing lacrosse here. I'm really starting to get into following the sport and I love the product ND is putting out there. As far as football goes, I do kind that Diaco dropped the ball on this one. He was on team Jacob instead of team Hubbard as apparently he likes werewolves better. Ba dum che

I agree. ND LAX needs another star to take them back to the Natty and win. Im sure NDLAX can find a position for him easier on the LAX team than the Football team.

 

[Luckylucci]

What does he do good? I just watched his film twice. I dont see anything he does well other than play the ball in the air well and he is big and athletic.

I was basing his offer off of the info Rivals and 247 provided and neither have him with a ND offer. And when he committed to play LAX at Notre Dame, he was going to walk-on to the Notre Dame Football team as well...that is what I was referring too.

Im not saying he isnt or wouldnt be a good player. Im saying he has no position, much less any experience playing DE/OLB. Ill take the the guys we got bc they fill need. Hubbard doesnt fill a need.

Justin Hilliard fills a need. Barajas fills a need. Hubbard would have filled an athlete that has no position need. I think he would make a hell of a tight end with his ball skills and his size. But I really wouldnt take him over Weishar bc Weishar is phenomenal at route running, and Luatua is so damn good run blocking. We dont throw fades anymore so Hubbard is worthless in the redzone. Hell Corey Robinson didnt get a fade thrown to him all year.

Anytime a kid is 6'5+ and moves that well laterally it's a no brainer offer, IMO. Even if he ends up never developing a specific position. If he can move well enough to play safety he could move well enough to play DOG LB in Diaco's scheme. Over time I feel pretty confident he would've gain the necessary strength and knowledge to play in the box. He is literally the prototype for OLB in 3-4.

 

[IrishLax]

What does he do good? I just watched his film twice. I dont see anything he does well other than play the ball in the air well and he is big and athletic.

I was basing his offer off of the info Rivals and 247 provided and neither have him with a ND offer. And when he committed to play LAX at Notre Dame, he was going to walk-on to the Notre Dame Football team as well...that is what I was referring too.

Really weird considering:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> offered <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23OhioState&src=hash">#OhioState</a> LB commit Sam Hubbard late last week. His reaction, via <a href="https://twitter.com/share24">@share24</a> ($): <a href="http://t.co/upd8jkYDeb">http://t.co/upd8jkYDeb</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@NDatRivals) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDatRivals/statuses/400816144614846464">November 14, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Im not saying he isnt or wouldnt be a good player. Im saying he has no position, much less any experience playing DE/OLB. Ill take the the guys we got bc they fill need. Hubbard doesnt fill a need.

Justin Hilliard fills a need. Barajas fills a need. Hubbard would have filled an athlete that has no position need. I think he would make a hell of a tight end with his ball skills and his size. But I really wouldnt take him over Weishar bc Weishar is phenomenal at route running, and Luatua is so damn good run blocking. We dont throw fades anymore so Hubbard is worthless in the redzone. Hell Corey Robinson didnt get a fade thrown to him all year.

Hubbard vs. Martini... who you got? Tranquill is a guy with no LB experience either but we feel fine to gamble on him being able to fill a role as an ATH.

Hubbard = leaner, quicker Troy Niklas. He's the kind of guy you take and mold into wherever he fits best. Troy Niklas had no home and filled no need when we recruited him... most projected him as an OT or DE. We started him at OLB and moved him to TE. Hubbard you can play at OLB or TE or even maybe DE. The reason he doesn't show anything on film is because he was:
1. Lacrosse focused all of high school.
2. Playing out of position at safety.

You take him because he has elite athletic ability and versatility. That's why Ohio State (and literally every single school he asked his coach to send film to) offered him a scholarship.

 

[yankeeND]

You guys really shouldn't have let me get away with such a horrible joke...

 

[IrishLax]

I think Hubbard is a good prospect, but to be honest I am more upset that he is not gonna be playing lacrosse here. I'm really starting to get into following the sport and I love the product ND is putting out there. As far as football goes, I do kind that Diaco dropped the ball on this one. He was on team Jacob instead of team Hubbard as apparently he likes werewolves better. Ba dum che

This is also honestly a huge part of what is infuriating to me (duh). He was a top recruit... Jaylon Smith level guy. Running on 1s with Marlatt + Perkovic next year would've been nasty.

On top of that, you had an elite football athlete already set to go to your school and Diaco couldn't get his head out of his ass for 10 seconds to give him the time of day. I think people saying he wouldn't have been a big time recruit are rationalizing and not appreciating that he had a meteoric rise of the rankings for a reason (5 on Scout) AND is only scratching the surface of what he can do because he never focused on football.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Really weird considering:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> offered <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23OhioState&src=hash">#OhioState</a> LB commit Sam Hubbard late last week. His reaction, via <a href="https://twitter.com/share24">@share24</a> ($): <a href="http://t.co/upd8jkYDeb">http://t.co/upd8jkYDeb</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@NDatRivals) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDatRivals/statuses/400816144614846464">November 14, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Hubbard vs. Martini... who you got? Tranquill is a guy with no LB experience either but we feel fine to gamble on him being able to fill a role as an ATH.

Hubbard = leaner, quicker Troy Niklas. He's the kind of guy you take and mold into wherever he fits best. Troy Niklas had no home and filled no need when we recruited him... most projected him as an OT or DE. We started him at OLB and moved him to TE. Hubbard you can play at OLB or TE or even maybe DE. The reason he doesn't show anything on film is because he was:
1. Lacrosse focused all of high school.
2. Playing out of position at safety.

You take him because he has elite athletic ability and versatility. That's why Ohio State (and literally every single school he asked his coach to send film to) offered him a scholarship.

Drue Tranquill Sr Highlights: Click

Looks like he is playing a lot of LB to me. But maybe you see that as a walk down safety.

Im not even going to compare Martini to Hubbard bc Hubbard will never play inside linebacker in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme. If you want to compare him to Tranquill thats fine. You want to compare him to Doug Randolph thats fine bc Randolph can play multiple positions at LB. John Turner you win.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

This is also honestly a huge part of what is infuriating to me (duh). He was a top recruit... Jaylon Smith level guy. Running on 1s with Marlatt + Perkovic next year would've been nasty.

On top of that, you had an elite football athlete already set to go to your school and Diaco couldn't get his head out of his ass for 10 seconds to give him the time of day. I think people saying he wouldn't have been a big time recruit are rationalizing and not appreciating that he had a meteoric rise of the rankings for a reason (5 on Scout) AND is only scratching the surface of what he can do because he never focused on football.

Ohio is not Diaco's territory though. There were plenty of kids that the staff was split on that got offered/offered earlier. Elston would have been involved there, esp if he could have played Rush End. Id take Jhonny Williams/Kolin Hill at Rush End over Hubbard too. ND had Trumbetti in the fold at Rush End and Blankenship able to play there too. Hubbard as a 4th guy doesnt really make sense in a Diaco/BVG scheme either.

 

[yankeeND]

This is also honestly a huge part of what is infuriating to me (duh). He was a top recruit... Jaylon Smith level guy. Running on 1s with Marlatt + Perkovic next year would've been nasty.

On top of that, you had an elite football athlete already set to go to your school and Diaco couldn't get his head out of his ass for 10 seconds to give him the time of day. I think people saying he wouldn't have been a big time recruit are rationalizing and not appreciating that he had a meteoric rise of the rankings for a reason (5 on Scout) AND is only scratching the surface of what he can do because he never focused on football.

I do agree with you a lot about Diaco. Don't get me wrong that 12' defense was so good, but aside from The Ishaq lore he really left a lot to be desired. It is frustrating when you have a kid committed to the school and wants an offer from the football team, to be left at the alter like that. Time will tell with all of these guys though, so we shall see if it was all for not. But that's the thing about recruiting, it's a potentials game. Kid had the potentials, and we didn't take a shot. Kind of confusing really.

 

[bigedefense]

Probably what any other college kid would do during the summer

Study up for fall classes??

 

[IrishLax]

Ohio is not Diaco's territory though. There were plenty of kids that the staff was split on that got offered/offered earlier. Elston would have been involved there, esp if he could have played Rush End. Id take Jhonny Williams/Kolin Hill at Rush End over Hubbard too. ND had Trumbetti in the fold at Rush End and Blankenship able to play there too. Hubbard as a 4th guy doesnt really make sense in a Diaco/BVG scheme either.

Is he as good of a rush end as those guys right now? No.
Is he as good of a TE as Luatua/Weishar? No.
Is he as good of an OLB prospect as Tranquill for BVG's scheme? No.

Are any of the guys we're talking 6'6" 230 with his blend of hands, speed, and agility? NO! (Blankenship ain't far off though).

When Niklas was coming out of high school in '11, did anyone think he held a candle to Ben Koyack as a TE prospect? NO! Because at that time, he didn't. But Niklas had the versatility and athletic ability to be molded into a guy that in only two years of playing the position was a 2nd round NFL draft pick. That's why you take Hubbard... because 6'6" guys with his god given abilities and versatility are quite rare.

Niklas was listed as a SDE by 247, an OT by Scout/Rivals, and a 3-star TE by ESPN. No one knew what to make of him. He wasn't close to a finished product at any position... and that's how you have to view Hubbard. My main thesis is that we DID offer him so we DID see that value... we just saw it months after Urban Meyer. Whose fault is that?

 

[johnnycando]

Beau,

Can we get another clean-up, aisle 9?

Hilliard - hey I like him.

Haha.

 

[INLaw]

Clean up maybe needed but that was actually a pretty insightful back and forth. We all prolly should use live chat or pms more for those i suppose