'15 OH CB Shaun Crawford (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[IrishFaninTX]

Let me start by saying I don't disagree. I think this is a very rational viewpoint.

But let me play the other side of this coin with this......how does the staff sell kids on the benefit of taking a redshirt if they are going to be run out after 4 years? I know the term run out is a bit harsh, but it's the truth. I know they can take a 5th year elsewhere, but I am not sure if the success rate is that high. Just seems like it would by hypocritical.

Most schools do not necessarily even honor a 4 year scholarship. A lot of them, especially the SEC, are only good for 1 year and the school can choose to not to re-issue those scholarships if the player isn't putting in the work or gets injured. ND is one of the few that actually honors a 4 year scholarship unless there are rules or academics that come into question. They even give a medical hardship so players can get their degree. ND doesn't owe anyone a 5th year if they red shirted at some point.

 

[Ndaccountant]

There's no difference in my mind. What if he would have played a few snaps in some blowouts and gave occasional breathers to guys? He still didn't have meaningful minutes.

You aren't guaranteed a 5th year regardless of redshirt, injury, etc... period. Most schools don't even honor the time it takes for a young man to get a degree, Notre Dame does 100% of the time. I wouldn't change that and appreciate that we are different in that sense... but i'm not about to start saying that we should start assuming 5th years for guys simply because they redshirted.

To be clear, I am not advocating that either. There are guys that clearly would not add more value to the team in year 5 compared to a recruit in year one. You and I are on the same page here. What I am talking about is a guy like Hegarty where you cannot convince me for one moment that he would not add more value to the team in 2015 than at least 75% of the freshman.

It's bad luck for him that the OL has been stacked from a recruiting standpoint and I get that. I just think it's bad form to take a guy that could play meaningful minutes in 2015 and force him to the NFL or to another school just because you have someone behind him that you think can play and so taking a freshman is better in the long run.

I know these cases are rare, but they still bother me.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Agree, so if you are a freshman that could play in year one but the coaching staff wants you to redshirt, why would you as a player do so not knowing what the future holds? If I was Hegarty. I would think "why did I redshirt then? Yes, I got stronger, but in reality I saw no other tangible benefit from redshirting".

I am not talking about the guys that were "projects" and never materialized. I am talking about guys like Hegarty that played meaningful minutes.

You say that like the player is the one choosing to red shirt. The player literally has no say in whether he plays his freshman year or not. Sure he can work very hard and do everything possible to see the field but if the player is not needed, the coaches make the decision whether to play a kid or not. I have seen in previous years where a player might have been able to provide some meaningful minutes but the position was stacked so he wasn't needed. The coaches made that decision, not the player. If a coach tells a player he isn't going to play due to need or just isn't ready, there isn't anything the player can do about it other than transfer which is stupid. Waiting your turn at a place like ND is a lot better than transferring to Miami Ohio just so you can play as a freshman.

 

[Luckylucci]

What major program almost guarantees 5th years? We honor our offers until our commitment to the recruit is fulfilled... a degree from the University of Notre Dame.

Your play and need of the team dictates a 5th year. That's the same in every program in the country.

Well said Wolly.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I know these cases are rare, but they still bother me.

Has a case like this ever actually resulted in the senior not receiving a 5Y? I doubt it. The OL "two-deep" generally consists of 7-8 guys who are seeing the field regularly. If Hegarty is in the two-deep, he's going to get a 5Y. Period. Our staff would never be so stupid as to let such a guy walk.

If Hegarty isn't one of those 7-8 guys, then it's more of a judgment call. In this case, the kid was a highly rated recruit whose career (and earthly existence) were nearly derailed by an undiagnosed heart defect. If he's not in the two-deep as a RS Junior, and he leaves ND with a degree in hand, would he have a legitimate grievance? I don't think so.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Has a case like this ever actually resulted in the senior not receiving a 5Y? I doubt it. The OL "two-deep" generally consists of 7-8 guys who are seeing the field regularly. If Hegarty is in the two-deep, he's going to get a 5Y. Period. Our staff would never be so stupid as to let such a guy walk.

If Hegarty isn't one of those 7-8 guys, then it's more of a judgment call. In this case, the kid was a highly rated recruit whose career (and earthly existence) were nearly derailed by an undiagnosed heart defect. If he's not in the two-deep as a RS Junior, and he leaves ND with a degree in hand, would he have a legitimate grievance? I don't think so.

I was going off the list LL posted above. The speculation there was that Hegarty would be a tough choice given the scholarship limits and 5th year players.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I was going off the list LL posted above. The speculation there was that Hegarty would be a tough choice given the scholarship limits and 5th year players.

He was a good example, for your purposes. But we end up having a similar debate to this one almost every year, and I can't recall us ever failing to bring back an impactful 5Y. If the kid's somewhere on the two-deep as a RS Junior, he's pretty much a lock to return. If he's not, the odds of him seeing significant minutes as a 5Y are probably very low. I just don't see the moral implications of failing to give such a kid such an extra year in the program and free grad school.

 

[md_bennett]

He was a good example, for your purposes. But we end up having a similar debate to this one almost every year, and I can't recall us ever failing to bring back an impactful 5Y. If the kid's somewhere on the two-deep as a RS Junior, he's pretty much a lock to return. If he's not, the odds of him seeing significant minutes as a 5Y are probably very low. I just don't see the moral implications of failing to give such a kid such an extra year in the program and free grad school.

This is where I think people get hung up too much. There is NO MORAL IMPLICATION. Every recruit goes into college knowing that 5th years - if desired by the player - are an earned privilege. We offer a 4 year, no cutting of player for performance, scholarships to one of the finest educational institutions in the world. We never OWE them a 5th, but if they earn it by their performance and need at a position then they are asked to stay. Some may even turn it down, so we cannot even count on that as a given. Rosters are tough to manage and we cannot give everybody everything they want. Thanks for your time and good luck in your next stop in your career. Stay in touch with your old Alma Mater!

 

[Cackalacky]

This is where I think people get hung up too much. There is NO MORAL IMPLICATION. Every recruit goes into college knowing that 5th years - if desired by the player - are an earned privilege. We offer a 4 year, no cutting of player for performance, scholarships to one of the finest educational institutions in the world. We never OWE them a 5th, but if they earn it by their performance and need at a position then they are asked to stay. Some may even turn it down, so we cannot even count on that as a given. Rosters are tough to manage and we cannot give everybody everything they want. Thanks for your time and good luck in your next stop in your career. Stay in touch with your old Alma Mater!

I think you are missing that outside of ND, the vast majority of schools offer a recruit 5 years to play 4 and earn an undergrad degree, not go to Masters classes. That is much different than ND making a 5th year enroll in graduate programs.

 

[Irish8248]

Sooooo .... Crawford .... Yea

 

[RyCo1983]

Sooooo .... Crawford .... Yea

He's a baller.
Hope he pops soon.

 

[Irish#1]

Sooooo .... Crawford .... Yea

Aren't we discussing his fifth year of eligibility?

 

[md_bennett]

I think you are missing that outside of ND, the vast majority of schools offer a recruit 5 years to play 4 and earn an undergrad degree, not go to Masters classes. That is much different than ND making a 5th year enroll in graduate programs.

You are correct and it's something I failed to mention. It's not as if when somebody doesn't get the 5th year they are left in the cold. They still get that degree.


Now back to Crawford...let's go get him!

 

[Buster Bluth]

What ever came about from the suspension/theft/fight incident?

 

[GATTACA!]

What ever came about from the suspension/theft/fight incident?

 

[anarin]

I would not catagorize Golson as "likely NFL bound"

Did you categorize Troy Niklas NFL bound before last season?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Did you categorize Troy Niklas NFL bound before last season?

Niklas is a 6-7, 270 lb TE while Golson is a 6' (generously) QB who's played one OK season of D-1 ball. Two entirely different animals.

If you're an undersized QB, you need to be truly exceptional to be drafted. Russell Wilson had a higher QBR than Andrew Luck and RG3 but didn't get drafted until the 3rd round. Golson will have to have a heisman caliber season to be a draftable prospect this year.

 

[ThePiombino]

Did you categorize Troy Niklas NFL bound before last season?

Niklas is a 6-7, 270 lb TE while Golson is a 6' (generously) QB who's played one OK season of D-1 ball. Two entirely different animals.

If you're an undersized QB, you need to be truly exceptional to be drafted. Russell Wilson had a higher QBR than Andrew Luck and RG3 but didn't get drafted until the 3rd round. Golson will have to have a heisman caliber season to be a draftable prospect this year.

 

[Irish#1]

What ever came about from the suspension/theft/fight incident?

Maybe I'm wrong (distinct possibility), but I thought that was someone else?

 

[dublinirish]

naw it was Crawford, he was suspended a few days and banned from running in the individual races in the state meet i think

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Maybe I'm wrong (distinct possibility), but I thought that was someone else?

naw it was Crawford, he was suspended a few days and banned from running in the individual races in the state meet i think

No, I am going with Irish's hypothesis. It was another guy, planted by Hoke to make Crawford undesirable for Meyer and Kelly.

College football intrigue at a completely different level!

 

[IrishLion]

I don't know why there was debate on bringing back certain 5th year guys. Notre Dame is never at the limit anyway

 

[Irish#1]

naw it was Crawford, he was suspended a few days and banned from running in the individual races in the state meet i think

Thanks. I remembered the circumstances, but for some reason I was thinking it was someone else. Hell at my age I'm lucky to remember my own name!

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't know why there was debate on bringing back certain 5th year guys. Notre Dame is never at the limit anyway

Hahaha so true. Sooooo true.

 

[IrishLax]

Per Mike Frank, we should hear soon... maybe by Monday.

 

[yankeeND]

Per Mike Frank, we should hear soon... maybe by Monday.

Nice!

 

[CanadalovesND]

It's expected, but still..

 

[Huntr]

Rollin'.

Loving the momentum heading into II.

 

[Irish YJ]

right on!

 

[koonja]

right on!

^ Bod Squad.