Mark Cuban: "I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways"

[irishfan]

Mark Cuban: 'I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways'

"I know I'm prejudiced, and I know I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways," Cuban said in an interview shown at the annual GrowCo convention hosted by Inc. magazine, according to The Tennessean.

"If I see a black kid in a hoodie on my side of the street, I'll move to the other side of the street. If I see a white guy with a shaved head and tattoos (on the side he now is on), I'll move back to the other side of the street. None of us have pure thoughts; we all live in glass houses."

Didn't want this to get lost in the old Sterling thread. SportsCenter is having a field day with these comments. What are everyone's thoughts?

 

[gkIrish]

Mark Cuban: 'I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways'



Didn't want this to get lost in the old Sterling thread. SportsCenter is having a field day with these comments. What are everyone's thoughts?

I don't see how these comments are any less "racist" than Sterling's.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

I don't have a problem with his statement. I don't feel the same way, but he didn't say anything that I didn't already know. A lot of people feel the same way, they just won't admit it.

 

[koonja]

I don't have a problem with his statement. I don't feel the same way, but he didn't say anything that I didn't already know. A lot of people feel the same way, they just won't admit it.

I don't have a problem with what he said (although for him it's best to just say what someone wants to hear).

I do the same thing. Although mine's not necessarily black/white, but I still profile almost every day.

If it's night time and I see someone dressed in JNCO jeans and a hoodie, I'm moving to the other side of the street as well. Same for someone with an insane amount of piercings and tattoos. I'm not comfortable with those people.

I judge people pretty hard on how they dress. Not so much casual vs. business casual vs. professional, but how people dress on the street? I 100% judge them. If I see a white guy and black guy on the street dressed the same, I'm still more cautious around the black person because it's unusual for me, but my first train of thought is how they dress.

On black/white, I've never had a black friend before. Living in northern Wisconsin, it was rare for me to interact with them, much less ever know any of them.

Having said that, since my move to Ohio, by far my favorite team member at work is black and we do social things together outside of work.

 

[ACamp1900]

My initial reaction is I think he's just being too honest and could have worded it better... he's right though, every single one of us have prejudices toward something when we really drill down and be honest, not that it always plays to race or tattoos… but yeah. He was absolutely right with his last statement in that quote.

 

[FLDomer]

My initial reaction is I think he's just being too honest and could have worded it better... he's right though, every single one of us have prejudices toward something when we really drill down and be honest, not that it always plays to race or tattoos… but yeah. He was absolutely right with his last statement in that quote.

I see someone in Michigan Gear I wanna flip em off and punch them in the groove....would that be a hate crime??

BTW FACK MICHIGAN!

 

[ACamp1900]

I see someone in Michigan Gear I wanna flip em off and punch them in the groove....would that be a hate crime??

BTW FACK MICHIGAN!

haha... honestly... the second I see someone rocking Trojans, Raiders or Red Sox gear I judge the ever loving shit out of them in varying ways before they even open their mouths to say, "Hi"... obviously it's a dumbed down version of the bigger point but yeah...

f'n hubcap stealin Raider fans....

 

[Emcee77]

My initial reaction is I think he's just being too honest and could have worded it better... he's right though, every single one of us have prejudices toward something when we really drill down and be honest, not that it always plays to race or tattoos… but yeah. He was absolutely right with his last statement in that quote.

Right, I totally agree, I think it's good to be honest about the fact that it's really, really common, practically universal, to make snap judgments about people we encounter on the street. It's a very troubling insight, as it compels the realization that we've all probably misjudged dozens of perfectly law-abiding citizens, but it's a useful one to be forthright about.

But (and this part's not related at all to ACamp's post) this seems to me to be something very different from what Sterling was saying, no? Sterling did not want his girlfriend to associate with black people because he considers them generally inferior, even if, like Magic Johnson, they are rich and successful. Then he spuriously tries to back himself up by asking what Magic Johnson has ever done for anyone. Umm, what ...

What Donald Sterling Doesn't Know About Magic Johnson and AIDS : The New Yorker

Making snap judgments about people based on their appearance may be troubling, but many people who do that are willing to admit that the people they've judged may actually be fine upstanding citizens. Sterling seems incapable of doing that. He's willfully blind to the fact that Magic Johnson, for one, is a great man ... and black. Irrational, inarticulable hate for someone is often a sign of virulent, deep-seated prejudice. That's what the Sterling episode apparently involves, and I don't know if Cuban's snap judgments are quite in that category. So I appreciate what Cuban's trying to do, but if those comments came up in regard to Sterling I think his insight is of limited usefulness in that conversation.

 

[ACamp1900]

Another thought... I often wonder, and sometimes decide for myself based on nothing at all, what random people think of the diversity of my marriage and or friendships when we all get together in public... especially 'upper class looking' whites (Have fun with that one)... I sometimes convince myself other people don't approve...

strange but true... it all comes back to us and our thoughts on society as a whole I guess... we all have things...

 

[Irish#1]

Society is starting to blend more and more. When I was younger, it was rare to see a black and white couple. Today it's pretty common.

I like Magic Johnson, but I always wondered why he was looked at as a hero when he was diagnosed with the AIDS gene. He admitted that he had slept with a lot of women even though he knew he had it. Today, that person goes to jail, yet people still look at Magic like a hero when it comes to that.

 

[RDU Irish]

Nothing wrong with it. He is talking about how these people choose to present themselves to the world and his own choices based on a desire to avoid confrontation. Tattooed skinheads trump punk looking kids in the hierarchy of people I don't want to scuffle with. Before you say, why assume there will be a problem, ask yourself why take the chance? Remove any reference to skin color and does his comment become more "acceptable"? It is still a legitimate point if both hypothetical people are white.

So stand up straight, cut your hair, show your face, pull up your pants and wear respectable clothing if you want people to ASSUME you should be treated with respect. It's got nothing to do with race.

 

[GoIrish41]

Mark Cuban: 'I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways'



Didn't want this to get lost in the old Sterling thread. SportsCenter is having a field day with these comments. What are everyone's thoughts?

Sounds like Cuban doesn't like another NBA owner getting more attention than him. Whether he thinks these things or not, it probably isn't good judgment to verbalize them -- especially publically.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

It's not a fair comparison when he has a black person wearing a common article of clothing and a white guy who fits a skinhead image.

 

[IrishinTN]

I understand what he says about moving to the other side of the road, although I am not worried about moving to the other side for the kid in the hoodie as much as the guy with the shaved head and tats, but its not a racial bias for me. It's an appearance bias. And I also know that it's wrong to judge people base on appearances, but how you want the world to see you will go a long way to how you're treated.

And yes, everyone has certain biases and bigotries. But they can easily be overcome if you work on it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Cuban's example is classism, not racism. And classism is still generally acceptable in America.

Sterling's comments were clearly racist. So this isn't an apt comparison. I have no idea why Cuban would choose to make a public statement like this.

 

[GoIrish41]

Cuban's example is classism, not racism. And classism is still generally acceptable in America.

Sterling's comments were clearly racist. So this isn't an apt comparison. I have no idea why Cuban would choose to make a public statement like this.

Attention whore?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Attention whore?

Cuban definitely enjoys the limelight, but he also strikes me as a pretty intelligent guy. Why defend Sterling like this? There are principles at stake here that are worth standing up for, but Sterling's bigotry is not one of them.

 

[GoIrish41]

Cuban definitely enjoys the limelight, but he also strikes me as a pretty intelligent guy. Why defend Sterling like this? There are principles at stake here that are worth standing up for, but Sterling's bigotry is not one of them.

I agree. I can't understand why he would inject himself into this situation other than he can't stand not being the owner everyone is talking about. It's a head scratcher.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Cuban's example is classism, not racism. And classism is still generally acceptable in America.

Sterling's comments were clearly racist. So this isn't an apt comparison. I have no idea why Cuban would choose to make a public statement like this.

Agree. I think we all - whether we believe it or not - have some form of bias against a certain class of people. We (being the public in general) tend to look at the uber-rich with distain and look at those less fortunate as lazy, uneducated, etc.

Why is a crazy rich man "eccentric" but a crazy poor man simply "crazy?"

Why is a cheating husband an "adulterer" but a cheating wife "estranged?"

I don't know if Cuban is defending Sterling or not, but the advice I would give him is to refrain from making any comments at all. Vote to remove him from ownership and go on.

 

[Woneone]

Here's a full transcript of what he said (edit: Not the full interview, just the complete thought on Bigotry). Sounds like we're cherry-picking the "sexy" statement from what I perceive to be a pretty accurate narrative of how things currently are, and how he handles those issues.

In this day and age, this country has really come a long way, putting any type of bigotry behind us, regardless of who it’s towards — whether it’s the LGBT community, whether it’s xenophobia, fear of people from different countries — we’ve come a long way. And with that progress comes a price, where we’re a lot more vigilant in what what we, and a lot less tolerant, of different views. And it’s not easy for everyone to adopt (those views) or adapt, or evolve.

We’re all prejudice in one way or another. If I see a black kid in a hoodie, and it’s late at night, I’m walking to the other side of the street. If on that side of the street there’s a guy that has tattoos all over his face — white guy, bald head, tattoos everywhere — I’m walking back to the other side of the street.

And the list goes on, of stereotypes that we all live up to and are fearful of. And, so, in my businesses, (I) try not to be hypocritical. I know that I’m not perfect. I know that I live in a glass house and it’s not appropriate for me to throw stones.

And so when I run into bigotry — in organizations I control — I try to find solutions. I’ll work with people. I’ll send them to training, I’ll send them to sensitivity training. I’ll try to give them a chance to improve themselves because I think helping people improve their lives, helping people engage with people they may fear or may not understand, and helping people realize that while we all have our prejudices and bigotries ... We have to learn that it’s an issue that we have to control. It’s part of my responsibility as an entrepreneur to try to solve it, not just to kick the problem down the road.

It does my company no good, does my customers no good, does society no good if my response to somebody in their racism or their bigotry is to say ‘It’s not right for you to be here. Go take your attitude somewhere else.’

 

[Domina Nostra]

. . . It's a very troubling insight, as it compels the realization that we've all probably misjudged dozens of perfectly law-abiding citizens, but it's a useful one to be forthright about.

What's troubling about it? For a lot of people, the goal is just to get through the day without running into any trouble. The goal isn't to get an A+ in open-mindedness at the end of your life. If you react to a group of rowdy male teens on the street at night the same ways as you'd react to two old-ladies, you are not living in reality.

If you live in a big city with tons of strangers, it requires making snap-judgments about total strangers. There is nothing immoral about trying to stay safe. You know they are most likely decent kids, but you also know that you made it home in one piece.

Everyone knows that the way you dress projects an image so lots of people intentionally dress to look hard or tough--specifically in order to avoid trouble themselves. Other people intentionally dress to intimidate and/or shock. Still other people (usually from totally different backgrounds than our own) unintentionally dress or act in ways that we interpret as disconcerting, even if they are completely harmless. On the other hand, smart criminals try to dress as innocuous as possible, to try and confuse people into putting their guards down.

Reacting to strangers in certain situations isn't revealing anything troubling or interesting about your inner-psyche. It's just being cautious and using the brain to get through the day. There is certainly a level where caution can cross into paranoia (grown men can't react to every kid in a hoodie), but that doesn't mean the two are the same thing.

The moral part comes in when you confuse your caution with reality. Just because you are not comfortable around someone when they are a stranger on the street does not mean that they are actually a bad, or dangerous, or inferior person.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Agree. I think we all - whether we believe it or not - have some form of bias against a certain class of people. We (being the public in general) tend to look at the uber-rich with distain and look at those less fortunate as lazy, uneducated, etc.

America has always been a Protestant nation; the concept that God blesses upright individuals with worldly wealth was already widespread at its Founding. Thus, the poor are morally suspect, and the wealthy always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Domina Nostra]

American has always been a Protestant nation; the concept that God blesses upright individuals with worldly wealth was already widespread at its Founding. Thus, the poor are morally suspect, and the wealthy always get the benefit of the doubt.

Well, a rich person has a lot to steal, and very little to gain from robbing some average Joe.

Whereas a poor person needs money.

Seems pretty reasonable to be less worried about getting robbed by Lil Wayne than some random hick.

 

[Wild Bill]

Cuban's example is classism, not racism. And classism is still generally acceptable in America.

Sterling's comments were clearly racist. So this isn't an apt comparison. I have no idea why Cuban would choose to make a public statement like this.

I don't see this as classism. He's doing nothing to that person or any other person. Where he decides to walk has zero consequence to anyone except himself. He's simply making a decision to avoid what he perceives to be danger.

I assure you Whiskey, I don't tell my girlfriend to avoid the bum right outside of my condo because we are in different social classes. I do it to make sure she's safe.

I would agree with Title's post above that the description of the white guy strikes me as someone much more menacing than a black guy wearing a hooded sweatshirt. That said, we all have differing opinions on what we perceive as threatening. Cuban probably lives a much different life than me, I'm sorry to say, so we probably would have differing opinions.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I don't see this as classism. He's doing nothing to that person or any other person. Where he decides to walk has zero consequence to anyone except himself. He's simply making a decision to avoid what he perceives to be danger.

I assure you Whiskey, I don't tell my girlfriend to avoid the bum right outside of my condo because we are in different social classes. I do it to make sure she's safe.

I would agree with Title's post above that the description of the white guy strikes me as someone much more menacing than a black guy wearing a hooded sweatshirt. That said, we all have differing opinions on what we perceive as threatening. Cuban probably lives a much different life than me, I'm sorry to say, so we probably would have differing opinions.

This.

 

[Emcee77]

What's troubling about it?

Well, obviously, that we've misjudged many people who are actually good, that they noticed, and that they were hurt by it, and by doing so we contributed to the resentment by a minority of the majority. I don't think I judged the person who makes that mis-judgment (on the contrary, I drew a clear moral distinction between the person making snap judgments on the street and someone like Sterling who appears to have entrenched racist ideas), and I think it is 100% fair to say that these circumstances are troubling. I feel like your post was mostly a non sequitur to the extent you were talking about whether the person who makes a snap judgment is morally correct to do so. I never addressed that.

 

[ACamp1900]

Why can't we just hate everyone equally?? I'm good enough at it I must say...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't see this as classism. He's doing nothing to that person or any other person. Where he decides to walk has zero consequence to anyone except himself. He's simply making a decision to avoid what he perceives to be danger.

To be clear, I'm the last person who's going to advocate that anyone be publicly persecuted for thought crime (like harboring animus towards a government-approved victim class). But to the extent that Cuban's example can be described as a pernicious "-ism", classism is a lot more accurate than racism.

I assure you Whiskey, I don't tell my girlfriend to avoid the bum right outside of my condo because we are in different social classes. I do it to make sure she's safe.

And I would do the same. Regardless of race-- black, white or hispanic-- if someone is consciously projecting a tough gangster image, you can bet that protecting my family is going to take precedence over appearing non-judgmental.

But a more common formulation of Cuban's example is this: "I cross the street when I see a white bum, but wouldn't think twice about sharing a sidewalk with a black guy in a suit." It's perfectly natural to feel safer around people who are like yourself; and in this example, it's the similarities of class (and the attendant values that come along with it) that make one comfortable around the black guy; and the converse is true for the white bum.

Maybe that's not what Cuban was trying to convey, but that's how I interpreted it.

Well, a rich person has a lot to steal, and very little to gain from robbing some average Joe.

Whereas a poor person needs money.

Seems pretty reasonable to be less worried about getting robbed by Lil Wayne than some random hick.

I don't disagree at all. Everyone profiles strangers. It would be stupid not to, especially when personal safety is at issue.

 

[Emcee77]

And I would do the same. Regardless of race-- black, white or hispanic-- if someone is consciously projecting a tough gangster image, you can bet that protecting my family is going to take precedence over appearing non-judgmental.


I don't disagree at all. Everyone profiles strangers. It would be stupid not to, especially when personal safety is at issue.

Agreed and agreed, especially as to the bolded. Domina's post made me worry that my prior post in this thread came across as holier-than-thou. Not my intent at all. And to the extent that this is all Cuban was saying, it's pretty uncontroversial.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

IrishPat reinstatement in 3...2...