Game of Thrones - Season Four

[Irish Houstonian]

So that Baratheon bastard is dead -- the red haired witch killed him?

 

[woolybug25]

i'm sorry, but it's not a fact. it's ok to accept other people's opinions that don't match your own. i'm ok with you two including her as a major character. but you've both told that it's impossible to call her a minor character. and yet, i still think of her that way compared to other characters. i haven't read all of the books, so her main role so far has been to return jaime on the orders of lady catherine.

Now who's getting offensive?

It is a fact, per the authors of the book. She is a POV character, which means she holds a bigger role in the storyline. In the show, she not only been in 16 episodes, she has a starring role in 2. Finally, she obvoiusly is going to have a major role now considering her situation with Jaime Lannister.

You said she had a "minor" role. One could certainly make an argument that she isn't a top character to the series, but to say her role is minor is simply innacurate. She has a starring role in the storyline. Thats a fact.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

There was kind of a lot going on there though, no? Renly, Lady Catelyn, Jame and Brienne fighting and arguing and winning each other's mutual respect, the bear pit ... saying that all she's done is attempt to bring Jamie back to King's Landing is kind of like saying all Danerys has done is wander around in the East. I tend to agree with wooly that calling Brienne a minor character is really not reasonable ... no offense to you personally at all.

i respect the opinion that lots of you consider her a major character. in my simple categorization, i just don't. keep in mind that i'm not trying to prove anyone else wrong. i'm just explaining why i chose the phrasing "minor character" in a quick post.

but i don't like your analogy. danerys is the last member of a noble house, plotted to reclaim her family's throne, became khaleesi, built an army, raised dragons, is conquering major cities of the eastern continent, and is poised to fight a war in westoros. to me, brienne's role so far doesn't add up to anything close to that. i over simplified where i shouldn't have, but brienne's role in the renly/stannis plot, all parts of jaime's return, and now with the tyrell's in king's landing isn't the same. she's closer to bronn who you could make a strong argument for being a major character as well. i'd rank him further up the spetrum (if there was one) than brienne.

it's all relative to me and based entirely on the tv series. i'm not saying she's minor in the traditional sense of film and literature, like hordor. she's too much "less major".

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Now who's getting offensive?

It is a fact, per the authors of the book. She is a POV character, which means she holds a bigger role in the storyline. In the show, she not only been in 16 episodes, she has a starring role in 2. Finally, she obvoiusly is going to have a major role now considering her situation with Jaime Lannister.

You said she had a "minor" role. One could certainly make an argument that she isn't a top character to the series, but to say her role is minor is simply innacurate. She has a starring role in the storyline. Thats a fact.

that's all i'm saying. she isn't a top character in the series. that's the perfect threshold for my extremely basic hierarchy of major/minor characters. i'm sorry that i used the term minor at all. it's just how i look at it. this has already gone waaaaaaay to far.

edit: i can't emphasize enough that the books don't matter to me because i haven't read beyond the first one.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

i really struck a nerve here. sorry guys.

 

[Emcee77]

i respect the opinion that lots of you consider her a major character. in my simple categorization, i just don't. keep in mind that i'm not trying to prove anyone else wrong. i'm just explaining why i chose the phrasing "minor character" in a quick post.

but i don't like your analogy. danerys is the last member of a noble house, plotted to reclaim her family's throne, became khaleesi, built an army, raised dragons, is conquering major cities of the eastern continent, and is poised to fight a war in westoros. to me, brienne's role so far doesn't add up to anything close to that. i over simplified where i shouldn't have, but brienne's role in the renly/stannis plot, all parts of jaime's return, and now with the tyrell's in king's landing isn't the same. she's closer to bronn who you could make a strong argument for being a major character as well. i'd rank him further up the spetrum (if there was one) than brienne.

it's all relative to me and based entirely on the tv series. i'm not saying she's minor in the traditional sense of film and literature, like hordor. she's too much "less major".

Oh I agree with most of that. I think you've missed my point. In fact, regarding Daenerys, you've kind of proved my point. I was not comparing Daenerys to Brienne to argue that they are same-level characters; I was trying to illustrate that the argument that Brienne is a minor character because "all she has done is take Jamie to King's Landing on the orders of Lady Catelyn" is not convincing because you could reduce any character's actions to one sentence in that way, no matter how major the character, just as I did with Daenerys. In fact, Brienne has done a lot more than just take Jamie to King's Landing, just as Daenerys has done a lot more than wander around in the East. That's all I meant by that.

Brienne's not a contender for the throne or anything like that, but she is more than a minor character, imo. The show has spent a lot of air time developing her. Podrick payne, Tyrion's squire ... that's a minor character. Brienne (and probably also Bronn, for that matter) are not.

But don't apologize ... I just think this is an interesting discussion. It gives an opportunity to reflect thoughtfully on the series and I'm glad you raised the issue.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Oh I agree with most of that. I think you've missed my point. In fact, regarding Daenerys, you've kind of proved my point. I was not comparing Daenerys to Brienne to argue that they are same-level characters; I was trying to illustrate that the argument that Brienne is a minor character because "all she has done is take Jamie to King's Landing on the orders of Lady Catelyn" is not convincing because you could reduce any character's actions to one sentence in that way, no matter how major the character, just as I did with Daenerys. In fact, Brienne has done a lot more than just take Jamie to King's Landing, just as Daenerys has done a lot more than wander around in the East. That's all I meant by that.

Brienne's not a contender for the throne or anything like that, but she is more than a minor character, imo. The show has spent a lot of air time developing her. Podrick payne, Tyrion's squire ... that's a minor character. Brienne (and probably also Bronn, for that matter) are not.

But don't apologize ... I just think this is an interesting discussion. It gives an opportunity to reflect thoughtfully on the series and I'm glad you raised the issue.

ok.

 

[wizards8507]

So that Baratheon bastard is dead -- the red haired witch killed him?

I assume you mean Gendry. Robert actually had many bastards, which is how Ned became convinced that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen weren't his. All the bastards had dark hair. The last we saw him, Davos broke him out of Dragonstone (Stannis' castle) and he was rowing back to King's Landing. The only way a bastard would come into play in a succession dispute would be if he is legitimized by his father or if he raises an army and tries to take it by force. Gendry doesn't even know who his father is, and he (Robert) is dead anyways so there will be no legitimization.

A bit of trivia: You'll notice that Gendry only has one name. Only highborn bastards are given bastard names like Snow, Sand, Waters, Rivers, etc. Common folk only have first names, and as far as anyone knows, Gendry is just a lowborn orphan from Flea Bottom.

 

[IrishLax]

Got to remember that this is the SHOW thread and a lot of people posting here who have read the books are coming at things from different angles than they would if they hadn't. For instance, with Brienne being a POV character people who've read the books look at her as quite important to the story... whereas people who've only watched the show probably regard Walder Frey as a really important guy because of what he's done to this point, but he's not a POV character.

Just something to think about.

 

[GoIrish41]

After Robert's sons comes Robert's brother, but considering he's in open rebellion at the moment, it's unlikely that Tywin would just hand him the kingdom. After brothers, the succession laws get a bit sticky. It could be a Baratheon cousin somewhere down the line. My best guess is that the Lannisters would put Myrcella on the throne. Remember, Tyrion sent Myrcella off to Dorne in an attempt to win their allegiance in the War of the Five Kings, so she's currently Prince Doran's "guest."

Don't forget that the reason Ned Stark was beheaded is because he sent out letters to the lords of the Seven Kingdoms that Tommen, Myrcella, and Joffrey are Jamie Lannister's bastards, so we've already thrown legitimate succession out the window a bit.

So, it appears that we are back to my original thought. If it is power as the Centeral motivator, lots of people had motive to off Joffrey and make their claim to the throne. That opens the door for lots of allegiences and plots going on outside of the camera's lens. You've gotta hand it to the writers (and the original author, of course). This is a cleverly written show that has all of us discussing possibilities. It's been decades since us older guys were discussing who shot "JR" on Dallas, but this has the same feel.

 

[wizards8507]

If it is power as the Centeral motivator, lots of people had motive to off Joffrey and make their claim to the throne.

I agree with your point about power as the central motivator, but keep in mind that some characters need a throne much more than others in order to exert that power. Cersei, for example, depends on her role as the Queen Regent. She's only powerful if and when one of her children sits the throne. Tywin, on the other hand, is much more of a puppet-master who can coordinate the execution of his enemies by merely writing a letter. Littlefinger and Varys exert power through whispers and deceit.

 

[Irishcop]

Interesting. So Irishcop may be right-on after all. I still don't get the point of Olenna poisoning Joffrey. What would her family have to gain by that, assuming they lose the queenship. Tyrells seem more interested in power than revenge or morality, but I suppose either is possible.

I agree. I have no clue what her motivation would be to kill Joffery. But if she did do it, good for her. I've been waiting for Joffery to get his.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Don't forget that the reason Ned Stark was beheaded is because he sent out letters to the lords of the Seven Kingdoms that Tommen, Myrcella, and Joffrey are Jamie Lannister's bastards, so we've already thrown legitimate succession out the window a bit.

Stannis sent the letters, not Ned.

I assume you mean Gendry. Robert actually had many bastards, which is how Ned became convinced that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen weren't his.

That's putting it mildly. According to Maggy's prophecy, Robert had 16 bastards.

Here's a pretty good argument (with relevant screen shots from the show) illustrating how Olenna might have pulled it off.

 

[gkIrish]

Stannis sent the letters, not Ned.



That's putting it mildly. According to Maggy's prophecy, Robert had 16 bastards.


Anyway, here's a pretty good argument (with relevant screen shots from the show/QUOTE]

I think when viewers have to rely on screenshots to "know" something happened it's better to avoid spoiling anything.

 

[fitz_bu47]

If Olenna did it, I think Joff being a monster and fear for her granddaughter's safety is plenty motivation for doing so.

 

[Grahambo]

Stannis sent the letters, not Ned.



That's putting it mildly. According to Maggy's prophecy, Robert had 16 bastards.

Help me out here. There are several book-readers active in this thread, and lots of "Whodunnit" theories regarding Joff's poisoning, despite the fact that we know for sure who's responsible... there's nothing left to spoil, is there?

Anyway, here's a pretty good argument (with relevant screen shots from the show) illustrating how Olenna pulled it off.

Perhaps a different way to shape the 'whodunit' is why does she team up with Littlefinger to pull it off?

 

[woolybug25]

So is one of these threads supposed to be "Season 4 - No Spoilers" thread and the main thread a "Discuss it all" thread?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Perhaps a different way to shape the 'whodunit' is why does she team up with Littlefinger to pull it off?

(1) He was sent by the Lannisters to negotiate the alliance with the Tyrells in the first place; and (2) Baelish would sell his own mother if he thought it would help him move up in the world:

So is one of these threads supposed to be "Season 4 - No Spoilers" thread and the main thread a "Discuss it all" thread?

Did my post above share too much? I edited it.

 

[Corry]

Stannis sent the letters, not Ned.

New sent it to Stannis, and then he sent it to everyone.

 

[Henges24]

So is one of these threads supposed to be "Season 4 - No Spoilers" thread and the main thread a "Discuss it all" thread?

Read the OP

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Read the OP

Since this is your thread, did I cross the line with either of my last two posts?

 

[johnnycando]

Read the OP

Read the original thread.

You hijacking bastard.

 

[johnnycando]

The original thread, designed by myself( ), is here: http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/70880-game-thrones-10.html

 

[Henges24]

Read the original thread.

You hijacking bastard.

I swear I looked all over the place for a GoT thread and could only find the spoiler thread.

 

[Henges24]

Since this is your thread, did I cross the line with either of my last two posts?

You're good.

I don't really care too much about seeing spoilers (I'd rather not) but I'm sure other people would like to stay away from them.

 

[woolybug25]

Read the OP

Read the original thread.

You hijacking bastard.

haha

 

[GUknights75]

I just realized South Park spoiled Jofferies death

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XjzC2DRgEo4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GUknights75]

And if you want some really funny meme's you should "like" Daenerys Targaryen on Facebook. Those posts crack me up!

https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen

 

[woolybug25]

And if you want some really funny meme's you should "like" Daenerys Targaryen on Facebook. Those posts crack me up!

https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen

haha… awesome… some of my faves

 

[GATTACA!]

GRRM really needs to put down social media, stop writing prequel novellas, stop going to cons, and just finish the fucking books. My greatest fear is that he either dies before finishing them, or the show catches and passes the books.