Northwestern football players win right to unionize

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

If a kid who is on an academic scholarship, is engaged by the school to participate in a school sponsored event that is directly related to the scholarship, and the event brings in revenue for the school, then yes they should be entitled to compensation.

As a general rule I am against unions, but I can't see how anyone who is a supporter of free market economics can be against this. Additionally, if I remember correctly, I don't believe that the Northwestern players are looking to be paid. I thought I read that they were looking for guaranteed four year scholarships and medical care for injuries. Anyway, this ruling will likely be overturned on appeal.

Yes but if they do unionize they cede their ability to dictate the union's objectives to the membership. The union as a whole will ultimately decide on its aims, not the small group of players now fighting to form it.

 

[ryno 24]

If a kid who is on an academic scholarship, is engaged by the school to participate in a school sponsored event that is directly related to the scholarship, and the event brings in revenue for the school, then yes they should be entitled to compensation.

As a general rule I am against unions, but I can't see how anyone who is a supporter of free market economics can be against this. Additionally, if I remember correctly, I don't believe that the Northwestern players are looking to be paid. I thought I read that they were looking for guaranteed four year scholarships and medical care for injuries. Anyway, this ruling will likely be overturned on appeal.

Are you against unpaid internships? I have had three in politics and I helped them complete their assignment. I did not enjoy not getting paid, but it moved my career forward. Notre Dame and probably Northwestern students get paid around 200,000 in scholarship money. All other college athletes will eventually be hurt because of this ruling. They are not employees and therefore should not be able to unionize

 

[IrishLax]

If a kid who is on an academic scholarship, is engaged by the school to participate in a school sponsored event that is directly related to the scholarship, and the event brings in revenue for the school, then yes they should be entitled to compensation.

As a general rule I am against unions, but I can't see how anyone who is a supporter of free market economics can be against this. Additionally, if I remember correctly, I don't believe that the Northwestern players are looking to be paid. I thought I read that they were looking for guaranteed four year scholarships and medical care for injuries. Anyway, this ruling will likely be overturned on appeal.

To take that a step further, there are tons of really talented kids who earn LOTS of money with their skills in college (music, genius math brain, etc.).

On the surface, it's really ridiculous that athletes don't have the option to take what amounts to charity or "free money" from boosters or whoever. At the same time, it's obvious exactly why it's a bad idea for the health of the whole system for that not to happen.

 

[MJ12666]

So, if they unionize, do they become employees? If that is the case, do they start paying taxes on the scholarship aid? What about the benefits of using the weight room, S&C coaches, specialized dining, etc?

I would really think long on hard on this if I was a random ST player that has no shot of ever making the NFL.

The ruling I believe was that they are employees. I is hard to say if if they will need to pay taxes on scholarship aid. Since employees are not taxed for company paid health insurance I would not be surprised if Congress would not exempt scholarships from being taxable compensation, but you never know. We are a long way from this happening though.

 

[MJ12666]

Are you against unpaid internships? I have had three in politics and I helped them complete their assignment. I did not enjoy not getting paid, but it moved my career forward. Notre Dame and probably Northwestern students get paid around 200,000 in scholarship money. All other college athletes will eventually be hurt because of this ruling. They are not employees and therefore should not be able to unionize

No I am not against unpaid internships. I was just simply pointing out that comparing someone who is on an athletic scholarship and does nothing but study (which is fine and what I think they should do) is not the same as an individual who is on an athletic scholarship in a sport that directly generates revenue for the institution. You cannot compare these two situations.

The National Labor Relations Board disagrees with you as they found that the players are employees. Northwestern said they would appeal and I would not be surprised if the ruling gets reversed.

 

[BGIF]

ND may want to put that stadium upgrade on hold.

ND may want to put that stadium upgrade on hold.

Northwestern University football players can unionize, federal agency says | Fox News

For now, the push is to unionize athletes at private schools, such as Northwestern, because the federal labor agency does not have jurisdiction over public universities.

The Northwestern's, Notre Dame's, Stanford's, and Vanderbilt's already are at a disadvantage with higher admissions requirements, higher graduation rates, increased classroom competition, etc, now they will have additional expenses, and union negotiated procedures that their competitors on the field don't.

Will the ND scholarship players walk off the field in a union action if Kelly kicks the extra point to tie the score at the end of regulation forcing OT against Michigan instead of going for the win with a 2 point try? "Management CHOSE to go for "one" necessitating the extra work product outside the scope of our agreement. Management had other options but ignored them so Management is obligated to provide additional compensation for Union members."

Will ND get a delay of game penalty while the Scholarship Players Rep negotiates a bump in their scholarship package for the overtime work?

Will the players hit the bricks and forfeit if Swarbrick points out he can't agree without University Counsel's prior approval?


Once upon a time I was a card carrying Teamster ... smh.

Hello, Ivy League.

 

[ryno 24]

Yea just because a liberal judge in Chicago said that they were employees does not mean that it will last.

 

[BGIF]

Yea just because a liberal judge in Chicago said that they were employees does not mean that it will last.

If scholarship football players are employees, aren't scholarship baseball, lax, etc also?

Band scholarships?

How about those math wizards which were given free rides so they could work for that hot shot math prof who was hired specifically to bring in new federal grant money? Sounds more like an employee to me that an athlete.

I hope Northwestern starts cutting W-2s and 1099s for all those employees. Let them get a taste of the real world.

If the IRS actually taxed all these employees that have been getting a free ride at rich, white, old boy private schools it sure would help the deficit.

 

[gkIrish]

What happens if Northwestern unionizes and some kid they are recruiting doesn't want to be a part of the union. Can he be a part of the team without being a part of the union?

Apologize if that's a dumb question--I don't know a lot about unions.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Northwestern University football players can unionize, federal agency says | Fox News




The Northwestern's, Notre Dame's, Stanford's, and Vanderbilt's already are at a disadvantage with higher admissions requirements, higher graduation rates, increased classroom competition, etc, now they will have additional expenses, and union negotiated procedures that their competitors on the field don't.

Will the ND scholarship players walk off the field in a union action if Kelly kicks the extra point to tie the score at the end of regulation forcing OT against Michigan instead of going for the win with a 2 point try? "Management CHOSE to go for "one" necessitating the extra work product outside the scope of our agreement. Management had other options but ignored them so Management is obligated to provide additional compensation for Union members."

Will ND get a delay of game penalty while the Scholarship Players Rep negotiates a bump in their scholarship package for the overtime work?

Will the players hit the bricks and forfeit if Swarbrick points out he can't agree without University Counsel's prior approval?


Once upon a time I was a card carrying Teamster ... smh.

Hello, Ivy League.

It's a higher cost, but think about the recruiting advantages. A player at Notre Dame or Northwestern could be getting paid, while a player at Alabama may not be getting paid. This isn't something that is going to only provide negative consequences to private universities.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

What happens if Northwestern unionizes and some kid they are recruiting doesn't want to be a part of the union. Can he be a part of the team without being a part of the union?

Apologize if that's a dumb question--I don't know a lot about unions.

I think that you would not have to be a part of the union, but you would not get any of the advantages of being on the union that other members would get. Furthermore, if it's not a right to work state, you still would have to pay union dues.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

It's a higher cost, but think about the recruiting advantages. A player at Notre Dame or Northwestern could be getting paid, while a player at Alabama may not be getting paid. This isn't something that is going to only provide negative consequences to private universities.

It'll be a cold day in Hell before the SEC allows itself to be at a financial disadvantage in the recruiting game.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

It'll be a cold day in Hell before the SEC allows itself to be at a financial disadvantage in the recruiting game.

True, but if public university players want to seek to unionize, they need to rely on state law. 'Bama is a right to work state. Meaning that state employees - including those at public universities - rarely ever can unionize. This could hurt some of the right leaning states the most, assuming that the D.C. NLRB upholds the recommendation.

 

[BGIF]

I began saying this very thing years ago in jest... then after a few years I honestly started to think ... why not??? Hell, the Ivies would prob. join back into it... you could even add a few more schools... make a two divison thing with the two division leaders playing for the CFB championship.

No NBC contract/TV revenue
No post season play
Alumni (and fans) aren't traveling from CA to experience ND/Yale
Harvard/ND at Jerry's World is not happening

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

True, but if public university players want to seek to unionize, they need to rely on state law. 'Bama is a right to work state. Meaning that state employees - including those at public universities - rarely ever can unionize. This could hurt some of the right leaning states the most, assuming that the D.C. NLRB upholds the recommendation.

I don't think they would need to unionize. If the private schools need to make concessions to the athletes beyond what the NCAA rules currently allow then the NCAA will either stand firm and virtually disqualify private schools from participation in FBS football (unlikely) or amend the rules to allow for the new forms of compensation. Once the rules are amended, other FBS schools can be allowed to provide these same benefits, provided there are no other legal barriers in their respective states.

 

[JT_IRISH]

This is the beginning of the end of College Football as we currently know it...

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm totally against paying students atheletes and amateur atheletes in general. That said I look at D1 football these days and I no longer see student atheletes for the most part. I see a professional sports minor league filled with atheletes ready to be called up. I also no longer see educational institutions. I see businesses. Times have changed and the market is driving this situation. We are the market.

As long as the schools and NCAA themselves prioritize TV contracts and national championships over education, the kids will have a case for getting paid.

 

[aubeirish]

Interesting thought I am having here. Let's say guys are getting paid. How does it work? Everyone gets the same amount with 4 year contracts? Is it based on performance? You suck, you're gone.

 

[ACamp1900]

No NBC contract/TV revenue
No post season play
Alumni (and fans) aren't traveling from CA to experience ND/Yale
Harvard/ND at Jerry's World is not happening

IDK that you would lose all of those honestly... you clearly wouldn't lose the second... it's just a fairy tale anyway

 

[BGIF]

It's a higher cost, but think about the recruiting advantages. A player at Notre Dame or Northwestern could be getting paid, while a player at Alabama may not be getting paid. This isn't something that is going to only provide negative consequences to private universities.

The kid that is only interested in sports and can't get passed ND Admissions is not coming to ND regardless.

The one that is making his decision on pizza money, you don't want. Next year when Stanford offers $500 more, he'll declare a hardship because he can't afford to go to his uncle's funeral (it wasn't my example) on what ND pays.

It's becomes an arms race, literally. There will be Davis-Bacon Wage hourly wage rate sheets, by position, for each college town so that the cost of living differential can be properly quantified by locale and skill level. Coach Push The Envelope will declare his aspiring Javadon Clowney freshman a quarterback so he gets a better scale.

People complain in this thread about the NCAA rule regulating the size of a smear of cream cheese on a bagel, wait for the Federal rules in the Congressional Record.

 

[BGIF]

IDK that you would lose all of those honestly... you clearly wouldn't lose the second... it's just a fairy tale anyway

Stubhub's website would probably crash from the ticket demand for Vandy v Columbia in the College Bowl.

What bowl venue do you see chasing the College Bowl?

What TV network is covering it?

Keep in mind they'd have to schedule the game to avoid conflict with Cosmos and CSpan.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Interesting thought I am having here. Let's say guys are getting paid. How does it work? Everyone gets the same amount with 4 year contracts? Is it based on performance? You suck, you're gone.

That's a major issue with this entire project. If an academic scholarship isn't just compensation for a DI player's time and effort because of the amount of money CFB generates, then it's presumably also unfair to pay all players equally. The starting QB is worth far more than the Kicker, the 5 WDE generates much more value than the 3rd string S, etc. Players at ND are worth a lot more than their counterparts at IU. How do we set the wage scale?

This is a great example of how paying players creates many more problems than it solves.

 

[ACamp1900]

In our little fantasy world, I'd be much more interested in NDvBaylor for their league chapmionship being played in say Miami than I would Bama and SC playing for theirs in nawlins... I can't imagine I'd be alone there... but like I said, it's all fun anyway, cause it's not like it's gonna happen.

 

[BGIF]

That's a major issue with this entire project. If an academic scholarship isn't just compensation for a DI player's time and effort because of the amount of money CFB generates, then it's presumably also unfair to pay all players equally. The starting QB is worth far more than the Kicker, the 5 WDE generates much more value than the 3rd string S, etc. Players at ND are worth a lot more than their counterparts at IU. How do we set the wage scale?

This is a great example of how paying players creates many more problems than it solves.

I cannot fathom how they could do so with Title IX.

Even without Title IX, it's blatant sex discrimination.

 

[aubeirish]

That's a major issue with this entire project. If an academic scholarship isn't just compensation for a DI player's time and effort because of the amount of money CFB generates, then it's presumably also unfair to pay all players equally. The starting QB is worth far more than the Kicker, the 5 WDE generates much more value than the 3rd string S, etc. Players at ND are worth a lot more than their counterparts at IU. How do we set the wage scale?

This is a great example of how paying players creates many more problems than it solves.

Amen.

 

[NDWorld247]

old article from last fall but still pertinent in lots of ways to this latest development:

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany discusses possible football, basketball changes - ESPN

ps when will colleges GAURANTEE a 4 year scholly? right now "scholarships" are technically and legally "one year renewables".
we know good schools like ND always renew but lots of others do not-so should be careful with the "200k is not enough for these kids?" arguments. all thats guaranteed with an LOI out of HS is freshman year at college.

Was reading through the thread and came across this post from earlier. I posted on NSD that I saw the LOI and scholarship agreements (two separate documents IIRC) of a ND player and a few from other schools and ND clearly offers 4-year scholarships in their "package", whereas the other schools I saw (USF was one, maybe NC State was another but I can't remember) clearly only offered a one-year scholarship.

I posted about it somewhere, but I thought it was really cool to see ND offering 4-year deals in writing, not just "it's an unwritten rule that ND will renew scholarships each year" that we always read about when this topic comes up. No, it's actually written and signed by both parties that it's 4-years. Any school can do this. There are no rules prohibiting them from offering 4-years guaranteed (along with all the fine print that allows the school to get out of it should the student-athlete not hold up their end of the deal, whatever that may be).

 

[Buster Bluth]

Ugh, when did a free education start to mean nothing to these kids?

When the income schools earned from their talents exploded in the 1990s. It's not unlike people bitching about the 1%'s income compared to their own.

I think the most valid point is that some players get redshirted and get the free grad school and others don't have the option. Seems pretty bullshit to me that "lesser" players get an additional year of free school.

 

[Riddickulous]

I thought the vast majority of athletic departments were operating in the red. Anyone know how this would factor in?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I thought the vast majority of athletic departments were operating in the red. Anyone know how this would factor in?

If anything I think Title IX destroys this.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Why doesn't the NCAA go to the Olympic Model?