Final AP Poll

[philipm31]

Then you were wrong when you said it earlier, as well as today.

Tennessee says

In their run of eight straight BCS title game appearances, I was deadly accurate. I was not wrong because at the time UT won their only BCS title, the BCS was young and nobody had "conference bragging rights" and bought into the idea that the SEC was THE BEST CONFERENCE IN THE NATION until it won its 3rd in a row. In fact, the first three titles went to 3 schools from 3 different conferences, TN, FSU and OU.

I was watching when TN won their sole national title in the BCS era. I remember it very well.

And I was not online at all yesterday during the game because my dad's best friend at ND died right before kickoff, so I did not really feel like doing anything but huddling under the covers and watching the game, hoping that Auburn would win, because he was also the godfather of my sister, who went to Auburn.

So, um, yeah, I was not wrong.

THANKS FOR PLAYING.


And I should point out that Auburn did not get run off the field as you were claiming that they would for a MONTH before the game, my friend.

 

[T Town Tommy]

You mean the team that was ALWAYS the lowest ranked undefeated team every single week of the season? OK bud.

You're not really getting the point. Everyone knows and accepts that Florida had some great teams under Urban, that Bama is a machine, that the Cam Newton Auburn team was good... every year there are a couple truly awesome SEC teams that are (usually) substantially better than the best from other conferences. That is absolutely proven.

What everyone outside the SEC thinks is absurd -- and anarin and Bob Stoops and the like have called out -- are the not very good teams that play easy schedules with no legit OOC competition and only beat other overrated middle tier SEC teams for "quality wins" getting propped up. There are lots of examples of this in 2013, for example Texas A&M went 9-4 with their lone victory over a ranked team being #22 Duke, who SEC people laughed at coming into that game, and Vanderbilt who is ranked 23rd directly because of the propping up which we are talking about. The Aggies ranked 18th, whereas Notre Dame who went 9-4 with victories over #3 13-1 MSU, #19 ASU, and #20 USC is ranked 24th. Why? Because SEC coaches propping up their teams. Vanderbilt finished ranked 23rd, with quality wins over... oh yeah, ZERO RANKED TEAMS. Vanderbilt played a very easy schedule by all measures and did not beat a single ranked team, yet they are slotted above Notre Dame because of the SEC circle jerk... which in turn also makes every win an SEC team has over Vandy artificially "impressive." It's all circular. They're all overrated. And everyone who isn't an SEC moron knows this.

Question lax...

Do you think ND would have beaten A&M this season? We can discuss proping teams up all day or one conference getting preferential treatment over others, but the question remains... do you think you would have beat A&M this season? I don't. And that's my observation as a fan of the game... not an SEC homer.

 

[palinurus]

Question lax...

Do you think ND would have beaten A&M this season? We can discuss proping teams up all day or one conference getting preferential treatment over others, but the question remains... do you think you would have beat A&M this season? I don't. And that's my observation as a fan of the game... not an SEC homer.

Lax can answer for himself, of course, but I'll say this: my standard is how many times out of ten games would team A beat team B. That factors out the "got lucky" or "not used to that style of play" issue. ND this season had a way of playing up or down to the competition and A&M had an awful defense; Manziel would have been tough to stop, but their defense truly sucked. And I think ND would beat Duke and Duke should have beaten A&M. So the answer is "I don't know" but it's not a foregone conclusion to me that A&M would beat ND 6 out of 10 times.

 

[palinurus]

Overall, btw, I think the SEC is deeper and better than other conferences. I really have to admit that. They objectively have more talent (the NFL draft history proves that) and the upper tier teams are better than the upper tier teams of the other conferences, imo, as a group of teams. I mean, the all star team of the top four or five SEC teams would beat the all star team of the top four of five from an other conference. Plus the run of four different teams winning the BCS over seven years speaks to upper half quality. That's not to say there isn't SEC hype or SEC overrating of the conference as a whole, because SEC teams that are from the middle tier down lose bowl games to crap teams like Nebraska all the time.

 

[woolybug25]

Overall, btw, I think the SEC is deeper and better than other conferences. I really have to admit that. They objectively have more talent (the NFL draft history proves that) and the upper tier teams are better than the upper tier teams of the other conferences, imo, as a group of teams. I mean, the all star team of the top four or five SEC teams would beat the all star team of the top four of five from an other conference. Plus the run of four different teams winning the BCS over seven years speaks to upper half quality. That's not to say there isn't SEC hype or SEC overrating of the conference as a whole, because SEC teams that are from the middle tier down lose bowl games to crap teams like Nebraska all the time.

I would take this bet all day long. The SEC doesn't have the best QB, WR, RB or offensive lineman in the league. That's just on offense.

Sounds like somebody drank up all of the SEC koolaid!

 

[T Town Tommy]

Overall, btw, I think the SEC is deeper and better than other conferences. I really have to admit that. They objectively have more talent (the NFL draft history proves that) and the upper tier teams are better than the upper tier teams of the other conferences, imo, as a group of teams. I mean, the all star team of the top four or five SEC teams would beat the all star team of the top four of five from an other conference. Plus the run of four different teams winning the BCS over seven years speaks to upper half quality. That's not to say there isn't SEC hype or SEC overrating of the conference as a whole, because SEC teams that are from the middle tier down lose bowl games to crap teams like Nebraska all the time.

Going into this year's bowl season, since 2006 the SEC had the highest winning percentage of all the major conferences in bowl victories minus the Big East and Mountain West - who has played in significantly less bowls. The Pac-12 is right below the SEC in winning percentage with a 16-12 (.571) record. The Big 12 is 25-22 (.532), the ACC is 19-31 (.380) and the Big Ten is 17-30 (.362).

The SEC has gone 28-13 against the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 in bowl games.

The SEC is 16-7 (.696) all-time in BCS bowl games.

So yeah... an occasional loss to Nebraska should be expected but for the better part of the last decade, even the middling SEC teams have done extremely well.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I would take this bet all day long. The SEC doesn't have the best QB, WR, RB or offensive lineman in the league. That's just on offense.

Sounds like somebody drank up all of the SEC koolaid!

So what conference all-star team would you put against them?

 

[woolybug25]

So what conference all-star team would you put against them?

The ACC.

Offense
QB – Jameis Winston, Florida State
RB – Andre Williams, Boston College
RB – Devonta Freeman, Florida State
WR – Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR - Jamison Crowder, Duke
WR – Rashad Greene, Florida State
TE - Troy Niklas - Notre Dame
TE - Eric Ebron - North Carolina
Tckl- Zack Martin - Notre Dame
Tkl- James Hurst, North Carolina
G- Tre’ Jackson, Florida State
G-Shaq Mason, Georgia Tech
C- Bryan Stork, Florida State

Defense
DE - Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
DE - Kareem Martin, North Carolina
DT - Louis Nix, Notre Dame
DT – Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
LB - Kelby Brown, Duke
LB – Denzel Perryman, Miami
LB – Kevin Pierre-Louis, Boston College
CB – Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
CB – Kavarae Russell, Notre Dame
S – Anthony Harris, Virginia
S – Jeremy Cash, Duke

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm still confused how a four team playoff is going to encourage SOS by being more selective than a two team playoff.

 

[Cackalacky]

The ACC.

Offense
QB – Jameis Winston, Florida State
RB – Andre Williams, Boston College
RB – Devonta Freeman, Florida State
WR – Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR - Jamison Crowder, Duke
WR – Rashad Greene, Florida State
TE - Troy Niklas - Notre Dame
TE - Eric Ebron - North Carolina
Tckl- Zack Martin - Notre Dame
Tkl- James Hurst, North Carolina
G- Tre’ Jackson, Florida State
G-Shaq Mason, Georgia Tech
C- Bryan Stork, Florida State

Defense
DE - Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
DE - Kareem Martin, North Carolina
DT - Louis Nix, Notre Dame
DT – Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
LB - Kelby Brown, Duke
LB – Denzel Perryman, Miami
LB – Kevin Pierre-Louis, Boston College
CB – Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
CB – Kavarae Russell, Notre Dame
S – Anthony Harris, Virginia
S – Jeremy Cash, Duke

Hahaha. Thats a fucking team! Although technically, I don't think you could put ND on that Team... but that team... I really got lost at Ebron and Niklas.....

OTOH, Alabama could probably match up with this team personnel wise. I dont know other teams that could though.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I really would like to see some conference all-star games, maybe in place of the tired Senior Bowl and East/West Shrine games.

 

[IrishLax]

Question lax...

Do you think ND would have beaten A&M this season? We can discuss proping teams up all day or one conference getting preferential treatment over others, but the question remains... do you think you would have beat A&M this season? I don't. And that's my observation as a fan of the game... not an SEC homer.

Absolutely, when relatively healthy. Not every time, but probably 6/10 times on a neutral field. A&M has one of the worst defenses I have ever laid eyes on. And the proof is in the pudding with them never beating a good team all year, and almost losing to a Duke team that everyone laughed at.

What about Vandy at 9-4 with no quality wins being propped up at #23 ahead of ND by your coaches? You going to make a case for them too?

 

[irishog77]

And what the basis of that SEC propaganda machine?

Oh, yeah, ESPN/ABC.

As I said earlier this year, you have 4 teams in the BCS era that won titles. The rest did not. So how can you blindly say that the SEC is the best conference when it is not the best overall, in terms of actual depth?

Because the media just assumes that it is a d spread that mantra around.

If only another group of teams, including the Irish could learn to spread those titles around and keep it out of the SEC's hands nearly every year, things might change a bit. I am guessing that the ACC should be a good bet to step up, what with the way FSU looks poised to make a comeback, MIA has finally gotten some stability, CLE seems to be winning big games consistently and even Duke has started to make a dent nationally....but who knows?

In their run of eight straight BCS title game appearances, I was deadly accurate. I was not wrong because at the time UT won their only BCS title, the BCS was young and nobody had "conference bragging rights" and bought into the idea that the SEC was THE BEST CONFERENCE IN THE NATION until it won its 3rd in a row. In fact, the first three titles went to 3 schools from 3 different conferences, TN, FSU and OU.

I was watching when TN won their sole national title in the BCS era. I remember it very well.

And I was not online at all yesterday during the game because my dad's best friend at ND died right before kickoff, so I did not really feel like doing anything but huddling under the covers and watching the game, hoping that Auburn would win, because he was also the godfather of my sister, who went to Auburn.

So, um, yeah, I was not wrong.

THANKS FOR PLAYING.


And I should point out that Auburn did not get run off the field as you were claiming that they would for a MONTH before the game, my friend.

You were wrong. Maybe you meant only 4 teams won a title in their streak of 7 consecutive...but you wrote, "As I said earlier this year, you have 4 teams in the BCS era that won titles." 5 sec teams won titles...in the BCS era.


I didn't claim, for a MONTH, that auburn would get run off the field. I claimed, about a MONTH before the game, that I could see fsu beating auburn. Big difference, cause you know, THE ACTUAL WORDS A PERSON USE MATTER. I also claimed "Sure, Auburn may beat FSU," and that I didn't know what would happen and I hoped it would be a good game.

In whatever thread that was in, I had to point out your factual errors too. Like that if alabama beat auburn in 2010, alabama would have played for the Natty (not ever a possibility), auburn was alabama's SECOND loss (they were their THIRD...and I had to point this out to you TWICE), that Malzahn has more big game experience than Fisher (Fisher had and has more big game experience than Gus...and it's not really debatable). You even said, as a matter of fact, that alabama has a better defense than fsu. I disagreed then, and I disagree now-- I think fsu's defense was better than alabama's in 2013 (but that is mainly an opinion, by me). Of course your biggest nugget in all that diarrhea was that your claim that you had not watched a seminole game...in years.

Use correct words, don't get mad when others point out your factual errors, or go away-- any of those three things will work.

 

[pkt77242]

The ACC.

Offense
QB – Jameis Winston, Florida State
RB – Andre Williams, Boston College
RB – Devonta Freeman, Florida State
WR – Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR - Jamison Crowder, Duke
WR – Rashad Greene, Florida State
TE - Troy Niklas - Notre Dame
TE - Eric Ebron - North Carolina
Tckl- Zack Martin - Notre Dame
Tkl- James Hurst, North Carolina
G- Tre’ Jackson, Florida State
G-Shaq Mason, Georgia Tech
C- Bryan Stork, Florida State

Defense
DE - Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
DE - Kareem Martin, North Carolina
DT - Louis Nix, Notre Dame
DT – Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
LB - Kelby Brown, Duke
LB – Denzel Perryman, Miami
LB – Kevin Pierre-Louis, Boston College
CB – Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
CB – Kavarae Russell, Notre Dame
S – Anthony Harris, Virginia
S – Jeremy Cash, Duke

This is a great team. I also think you could make a Hell of a team from the Pac-12 as well.

 

[irishog77]

I'm still confused how a four team playoff is going to encourage SOS by being more selective than a two team playoff.

This.

ACamp brought it up yesterday (or the day before), that until SOS is actually used...it's all just big talk.

I can see a scenario where teams, instead of playing a tough schedule, will play an easy one in the hopes of going 11-1. Or 10-2, claim "ess eee cee" and hope to be one of the 4 teams that make the playoff.

I've always been and remain skeptical of the looming 4 team playoff.

 

[PANDFAN]

The ACC.

Offense
QB – Jameis Winston, Florida State
RB – Andre Williams, Boston College
RB – Devonta Freeman, Florida State
WR – Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR - Jamison Crowder, Duke
WR – Rashad Greene, Florida State
TE - Troy Niklas - Notre Dame
TE - Eric Ebron - North Carolina
Tckl- Zack Martin - Notre Dame
Tkl- James Hurst, North Carolina
G- Tre’ Jackson, Florida State
G-Shaq Mason, Georgia Tech
C- Bryan Stork, Florida State

Defense
DE - Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
DE - Kareem Martin, North Carolina
DT - Louis Nix, Notre Dame
DT – Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
LB - Kelby Brown, Duke
LB – Denzel Perryman, Miami
LB – Kevin Pierre-Louis, Boston College
CB – Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
CB – Kavarae Russell, Notre Dame
S – Anthony Harris, Virginia
S – Jeremy Cash, Duke

great list my only changes would be to add darby instead of russell as much as it would pain me, and i don't believe tuitt or nix BASED on this year---add vic beasley

 

[koonja]

I like how auburn and Alabama finish 1-3 combined, and yet are #2 and #3 in the polls. Only in the SEC.

 

[Cackalacky]

This.

ACamp brought it up yesterday (or the day before), that until SOS is actually used...it's all just big talk.

I can see a scenario where teams, instead of playing a tough schedule, will play an easy one in the hopes of going 11-1. Or 10-2, claim "ess eee cee" and hope to be one of the 4 teams that make the playoff.

I've always been and remain skeptical of the looming 4 team playoff.

Its my understanding the selection committee will use SOS, head to head, as well as weather and other factors. Polls and and the BCS system will not be used. They are scheduled to meet at least 5 times per season but not more than 10 and periodically release a ranking throughout each season.

Now, how that is actually determined and implemented will probably forever be a secret now. But with Condi, Barry, and hopefully Willingham on board, we should be ok as long as we play our normal schedule and win.

 

[gkIrish]

I like how auburn and Alabama finish 1-3 combined, and yet are #2 and #3 in the polls. Only in the SEC.

Alabama finished 7th/8th

 

[T Town Tommy]

Absolutely, when relatively healthy. Not every time, but probably 6/10 times on a neutral field. A&M has one of the worst defenses I have ever laid eyes on. And the proof is in the pudding with them never beating a good team all year, and almost losing to a Duke team that everyone laughed at.

What about Vandy at 9-4 with no quality wins being propped up at #23 ahead of ND by your coaches? You going to make a case for them too?

Gotta disagree on A&M. JF would destroy the Irish defense. And for the Irish to win they would have to outscore the Aggies. That isn't happening more games than not. Nothing wrong with cheering your team on, but no way the Irish win 6/10 on any field. They lose 6-7 times out of 10 to the Aggies... poor defense and all.

Now, I will say this. I think the Aggies are one of the most hyped teams in recent memory, largely due to their coach and JF. They haven't finished no better than third in the SEC West. Until they win something that really matters, they don't deserve the praise they get.

Vandy? Don't think they are better than the Irish. Not that they are that far behind but the Irish get them 6-7 times out of 10 on any field. No need to worry with them however. They did beat the very team in Houston that many of the IE posters out here stated they did not want to play in a bowl game due to their offense. They do get a little credit for that.

 

[koonja]

Alabama finished 7th/8th

Well then I have a tweet to delete. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The ACC.

Offense
QB – Jameis Winston, Florida State
RB – Andre Williams, Boston College
RB – Devonta Freeman, Florida State
WR – Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR - Jamison Crowder, Duke
WR – Rashad Greene, Florida State
TE - Troy Niklas - Notre Dame
TE - Eric Ebron - North Carolina
Tckl- Zack Martin - Notre Dame
Tkl- James Hurst, North Carolina
G- Tre’ Jackson, Florida State
G-Shaq Mason, Georgia Tech
C- Bryan Stork, Florida State

Defense
DE - Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
DE - Kareem Martin, North Carolina
DT - Louis Nix, Notre Dame
DT – Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
LB - Kelby Brown, Duke
LB – Denzel Perryman, Miami
LB – Kevin Pierre-Louis, Boston College
CB – Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
CB – Kavarae Russell, Notre Dame
S – Anthony Harris, Virginia
S – Jeremy Cash, Duke

Solid players. All of them. But against the SEC all stars? Uh... I can't see that.

 

[woolybug25]

Solid players. All of them. But against the SEC all stars? Uh... I can't see that.

Post it up, we can put them up head to head.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Post it up, we can put them up head to head.

Official Football Roster - ROLLTIDE.COM - University of Alabama Official Athletic Site

Here you go.

In all seriousness, I think there isn't much difference in the top tier talent of most of the major conferences. I would argue the Big 10 probably couldn't stack up overall, but the ACC, Pac 12, Big 12 probably would. It would make for a great game, even though it would never happen.

 

[Voltaire]

Post it up, we can put them up head to head.

2013 AP First Team All-SEC

Offense
QB Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M, 6-1, 210, So.
RB u-Tre Mason, Auburn, 5-10, 205, Jr.
RB Jeremy Hill, LSU, 6-2, 235, So.
WR Jordan Matthews, Vanderbilt, 6-3, 205, Sr.
WR Mike Evans, Texas A&M, 6-5, 225, So.
L Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State, 6-4, 340, Sr.
L Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama, 6-6, 310, Jr.
L Jake Matthews, Texas A&M, 6-5, 305, Sr.
L t-Justin Britt, Missouri, 6-6, 315, Sr.
L t-Greg Robinson, Auburn, 6-5, 320, So.
L t-Anthony Steen, Alabama, 6-3, 309, Sr.
C Travis Swanson, Arkansas, 6-5, 315, Sr.
K Marshall Morgan, Georgia, 6-3, 200, So.
All-Purpose Odell Beckham Jr., LSU, 6-0, 193, Jr.

Defense
E u-Michael Sam, Missouri, 6-2, 255, Sr.
E Dee Ford, Auburn, 6-2, 240, Sr.
T Kelcy Quarles, South Carolin, 6-4, 298, Jr.
E t-Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina, 6-6, 274, Jr.
E t-Kony Ealy, Missouri, 6-5, 275, Jr.
LB u-C.J. Mosley, Alabama, 6-2, 232, Sr.
LB Ramik Wilson, Georgia, 6-2, 232, Jr.
LB A.J. Johnson, Tennessee, 6-2, 243, Jr.
CB E.J. Gaines, Missouri, 5-11, 195, Sr.
CB Vernon Hargreaves III, Florida, 5-11, 192, Fr.
S Cody Prewitt, Mississippi, 6-2, 220, Jr.
S Kenny Ladler, Vanderbilt, 6-1, 205, Sr.
P Cody Mandell, Alabama, 6-3, 213, Sr.

 

[gkIrish]

Gotta disagree on A&M. JF would destroy the Irish defense. And for the Irish to win they would have to outscore the Aggies. That isn't happening more games than not. Nothing wrong with cheering your team on, but no way the Irish win 6/10 on any field. They lose 6-7 times out of 10 to the Aggies... poor defense and all.

Now, I will say this. I think the Aggies are one of the most hyped teams in recent memory, largely due to their coach and JF. They haven't finished no better than third in the SEC West. Until they win something that really matters, they don't deserve the praise they get.

Vandy? Don't think they are better than the Irish. Not that they are that far behind but the Irish get them 6-7 times out of 10 on any field. No need to worry with them however. They did beat the very team in Houston that many of the IE posters out here stated they did not want to play in a bowl game due to their offense. They do get a little credit for that.

IE posters didn't want to play Houston because we were starting 3rd stringers at various positions on defense. We are talking about whether Vandy is better than ND when healthy.

That being said, I actually agree with you that A&M would beat ND 7 times out of 10. But again, it doesn't really matter that X team would beat Y team. It's about each team's overall resume.

 

[T Town Tommy]

IE posters didn't want to play Houston because we were starting 3rd stringers at various positions on defense. We are talking about whether Vandy is better than ND when healthy.

That being said, I actually agree with you that A&M would beat ND 7 times out of 10. But again, it doesn't really matter that X team would beat Y team. It's about each team's overall resume.

I would say the final poll is more about how a team finished up the season moreso than the overall body of work. May not be the right thing but I think that's how it goes.

To me, polls are polls and half the people voting in them have no idea which team is better. Ask half the voters in the Southeast US about a Pac 12 team that rarely plays on tv and they can't tell you anything about them. Why? They probably don't see them play except for maybe a bowl game. How good was Oregon State? To be honest, I don't really know. Didn't see them but one time all year and I make my judgement based on that? Or what someone else says about them?

 

[wizards8507]

To me, polls are polls and half the people voting in them have no idea which team is better. Ask half the voters in the Southeast US about a Pac 12 team that rarely plays on tv and they can't tell you anything about them. Why? They probably don't see them play except for maybe a bowl game. How good was Oregon State? To be honest, I don't really know. Didn't see them but one time all year and I make my judgement based on that? Or what someone else says about them?

I agree with your assessment of the problem but what's the solution? Computers? People hate computer rankings even more than they hate the polls.

 

[gkIrish]

I encourage everyone to take a look at the "Rankings by Top Wins" thread I just started. Different perspective on the resumes of each team.

 

[irishog77]

Don't disagree with some of your argument but then the results of all those overrated SEC teams in bowl games just doesn''t support the overall argument.



That's what SEC fans will say to you about being overrated. Pretty simple. Beat them on the field consistently, in games that matter the most, and then show them where they haven't been dominant. Otherwise, you are saying one thing but the facts show something completely different.

For years, the B1G was given preferential treatment in the polls and was proped up as the best conference. When Florida got the chance under Urban, they completely embarassed Ohio State. Even in a year when the rest of the country thought the B1g had the top 2-3 teams. Then the rest of the country took note as Florida and LSu did the exact same thing the following two years. All of a sudden, the SEC showed they could play and beat rather easily the "best" teams out there. That's how you go about changing mindsets. Beat that tail down when given the chance and do it over and over again. This year was a start of sorts. But to change the SEC dominance mindset one has to do it more and more. Until then, the fact remains the SEC is THE conference in football.

Except I've always felt it's erroneous to say bowl games matter the most. I think the regular season games matter the most-- the ones that dictate what exhibition game they will play in weeks after the season ends. By and large, bowl games matter most to sec fans (and I'm sure, to a lesser extent, fans of actual schools, that may or not be in a different conference). Unless, you're playing for the Natty, it's really hard to know what type of mindset teams have going into a bowl game-- are they "up" for the game, are they pissed to be there, do they care, do they wish they were in a better city, would they rather be at home for the holidays than playing in whatever bowl game they're in, etc?

I'm the first to say that Oklahoma whipped Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, no doubt...but Alabama was a team, perhaps virtually 1 second away from being able to play for its 3rd straight title (and 4th in 5 years), that got shut out of the title game. I think Alabama cared and was "up" for the Sugar Bowl, but I have a hard time believing they cared and were as "up" for the Sugar as they would have been for the title game.

I think it's interesting that you brought up the year Florida jumped ahead of Michigan to make the title game, thus kickstarting the "ESS EEE CEE" chants in the title game and the perceived notion that sec=best. In the sec championship game that year (for a chance at the Natty), Florida fought tooth and nail the entire game against a tough Arkansas team. Arkansas had a great year that year and deserved to be in the sec championship game. Arkansas also lost 50-14 to usc...at home...in that same season. A year after they lost something like 70-17 to them in L.A. Sc brought the pain to auburn as well during their reign in the early 00's.

I brought that last part up because regular season games matter. A lot. You have to win them to be a part of the championship discussion. What was the bigger loss for ohio state this year-- the loss in their conference championship game that prevented them from playing in the Natty...or a meaningless game against Clemson in the Orange Bowl? Or what if osu lost to michigan in the season finale? It too would have been devastating. Claiming bowl superiority is not a good way to measure conference superiority. Does it help? Maybe a little, with emphasis placed on little. The best way to determine conference superiority would be for teams from across the country to play against one another, on campus, in September, October, and November. Sadly, the sec is, by and large, uninterested in doing this. They'd rather play a game in locations that mostly favor their schools, after 3,4,5 weeks off, with meaningless results, to claim their superiority.