'14 FL WR Isaiah McKenzie ( Georgia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[Bubbles]

Just wish ND would let him sign on the dotted line and work with him over the summer to get qualified. That is what Tennessee, Florida, Rutgers, etc. will do.

Is that a bit dishonest though (or at least what ND might be thinking)? Or is the thinking that Vanderdoesn't effectively made the dotted line moot last year mean they have plenty of time before camp to make something happen?

 

[IrishLax]

Is that a bit dishonest though (or at least what ND might be thinking)? Or is the thinking that Vanderdoesn't effectively made the dotted line moot last year mean they have plenty of time before camp to make something happen?

No matter what, they will be under 85 heading into fall camp. I 100% promise you that. So I guess I'm not really worried about the "oversigning" with expected attrition.

ND is not going to let a kid sign who hasn't qualified. Other schools will and work with him to pass NCAA minimums/clearing house. Happens all the time, usually once or twice a year USC has someone who is very much in limbo heading into fall camp.

 

[PANDFAN]

No matter what, they will be under 85 heading into fall camp. I 100% promise you that. So I guess I'm not really worried about the "oversigning" with expected attrition.

ND is not going to let a kid sign who hasn't qualified. Other schools will and work with him to pass NCAA minimums/clearing house. Happens all the time, usually once or twice a year USC has someone who is very much in limbo heading into fall camp.

miami does this..look at AL-QUADIN MUHAMMAD

 

[Johannes]

No matter what, they will be under 85 heading into fall camp. I 100% promise you that. So I guess I'm not really worried about the "oversigning" with expected attrition.

ND is not going to let a kid sign who hasn't qualified. Other schools will and work with him to pass NCAA minimums/clearing house. Happens all the time, usually once or twice a year USC has someone who is very much in limbo heading into fall camp.

Can these poor souls practice and work out with the team while in football purgatory? What would be the latest deadline, should McKenzie go that route?

 

[50milesSE ND]

As a Notre Dame fan obviously hope we get him, but more importantly as a human being I just hope he gets an opportunity anywhere. The unfortunate thing is that anywhere may not focus on his needs as a student who needs a good structure to progress as an adult. Reading about him a major heart light came on for him, and I really just hope the kid succeeds in life. I'm still upset that T Shep didn't pan out because of his issues so definitely don't want that to happen. I hope Notre Dame takes into account the good they could do for him as a person if his grades are good enough for college.

 

[IrishLax]

Ole Miss offer.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

LOUD NOISES

 

[IrishJayhawk]

LOUD NOISES

I love lamp.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'll say this, I'm not sure if this was covered while I was away, but there are some people that owe Loy an apology for how they trashed him when he said he didn't think Isaiah had qualified.

 

[tussin]

Some questions I have:

How specifically are ND's academic requirements higher than other schools if McKenzie is a take by simply qualifying for college? Is it an average of our entire class that needs to be higher than other schools? Why wouldn't we go after some bigger fish with some of our "flier" scholarships?

Can someone answer this?

 

[IrishLax]

I'll say this, I'm not sure if this was covered while I was away, but there are some people that owe Loy an apology for how they trashed him when he said he didn't think Isaiah had qualified.

Except that isn't what people jumped on Loy about at all. It was about him not being listed as a commit... everyone (or at least most everyone) on both sides of that debate always acknowledged his academic issues.

Either way, Loy was right.

 

[IrishLax]

Can someone answer this?

Don't understand the question.

 

[tussin]

Don't understand the question.

Let me rephrase:

How specifically are ND's academic requirements higher than other schools if McKenzie is a take by simply qualifying for college? Does ND require higher average test scores across our entire class than other schools? If we will take some recruits for simply qualifying then why don't we pursue more elite recruits with subpar scores? I guess my question is how is McKenzie a take if he simply qualifies but many other elite SEC recruits "don't fit the ND academic profile."

 

[IrishLax]

Let me rephrase:

How specifically are ND's academic requirements higher than other schools if McKenzie is a take by simply qualifying for college? Does ND require higher average test scores across our entire class than other schools? If we will take some recruits for simply qualifying then why don't we pursue more elite recruits with subpar scores? I guess my question is how is McKenzie a take if he simply qualifies but many other elite SEC recruits "don't for the ND academic profile."

The bolded is what I'm confused by. Where are you getting this from? McKenzie's comments I assume? Simply put, don't listen to a word he is saying. None of us have any idea exactly what thresholds he needs to reach for ND. I'm 99.99999% positive that he needs to do a LOT better than NCAA minimums to actually be a take.

Speaking in general terms, every prospect is different and viewed by admissions uniquely. I don't think there are true "exceptions" but Kelly can get some leeway on probably a prospect or two if there is a case to be made, but they won't let him sign an entire class of below borderline guys. I have no idea what the specifics are or how well both sides work in harmony... but there is definitely some give and take.

The main thing that usually precludes ND from taking prospects that other can take is not GPA or test scores (although we are more strict on those for sure than your LSUs and Oklahomas of the world). It is credits. Foreign language and math credits to be precise. Similarly, we don't do JUCOs because we are committed to graduating kids in 4 years and wouldn't accept most of their transfer credits... where State School X that does 50% of their coursework online or whatever isn't picky. Finally, admissions is also far more strict on character concerns and puts a discerning eye on disciplinary action, arrests, etc. that an SEC school or USC or what have you will not.

 

[tussin]

The bolded is what I'm confused by. Where are you getting this from? McKenzie's comments I assume? Simply put, don't listen to a word he is saying. None of us have any idea exactly what thresholds he needs to reach for ND. I'm 99.99999% positive that he needs to do a LOT better than NCAA minimums to actually be a take.

Speaking in general terms, every prospect is different and viewed by admissions uniquely. I don't think there are true "exceptions" but Kelly can get some leeway on probably a prospect or two if there is a case to be made, but they won't let him sign an entire class of below borderline guys. I have no idea what the specifics are or how well both sides work in harmony... but there is definitely some give and take.

The main thing that usually precludes ND from taking prospects that other can take is not GPA or test scores (although we are more strict on those for sure than your LSUs and Oklahomas of the world). It is credits. Foreign language and math credits to be precise. Similarly, we don't do JUCOs because we are committed to graduating kids in 4 years and wouldn't accept most of their transfer credits... where State School X that does 50% of their coursework online or whatever isn't picky. Finally, admissions is also far more strict on character concerns and puts a discerning eye on disciplinary action, arrests, etc. that an SEC school or USC or what have you will not.

OK thanks. This makes a lot more sense to me now.

I was under the impression (and I think a few other posters here as well) that if McKenzie simply upped his test scores to the NCAA minimum then he would be Irish. Given what you said, it seems like he has a lot of work to do and his chances are more remote than I thought.

 

[IrishLax]

OK thanks. This makes a lot more sense to me now.

I was under the impression (and I think a few other posters here as well) that if McKenzie simply upped his test scores to the NCAA minimum then he would be Irish. Given what you said, it seems like he has a lot of work to do and his chances are more remote than I thought.

It will take a miracle for him to be a take for ND by NSD, and the odds are against him even meeting NCAA minimums by the time fall rolls around to play for anyone... but that's far more possible because he has the time to work at it.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Florida extends offer to UA All-America wide out

 

[woolybug25]

It will take a miracle for him to be a take for ND by NSD, and the odds are against him even meeting NCAA minimums by the time fall rolls around to play for anyone... but that's far more possible because he has the time to work at it.

Question… Did Tee Sheperd qualify? If yes, then why didn't he go to a D1 school after he left ND?

Why can't we give him a conditional acceptance pending certain minimum qualifications? If Florida feels they can sign him, then we should be able to as well. How much different can the minimum qualifications for UF be compared to ND? Are they that far from each other that UF feels that he may be able to meet their (and min NCAA) requirements, but not here at Notre Dame?

Per BGIF's post before (solid post, btw), we used to be able to do this type of thing. BK has clearly got our admissions to stretch in areas where Weis could not. I wish we had more clarity on exactly how this works currently.

If he really was nowhere near NCAA minimums, then he wouldn't have all of the offers he currently has.

Final question… 247, Rivals and ESPN all show him having a Michigan offer… is this correct?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have no idea what I am talking about, as always, but I have a prof friend that says that schools can use ADA for getting some players in beneath minimum qualifications.

Just to state it clearly, TEE AND EDDIE most probably would have fit in that group.

 

[NDinL.A.]

1. Just because a kid has an offer, doesn't mean he is a take. Lots of players, every year, get offers from schools all over the country and end up either going the Juco route or end up greyshirting bc of their academics. So just because he has offers from these schools, doesn't mean he is a take. Hell, he is a 'commit' to us and he isn't even a take yet.

2. When we used to take the "Prop 48" guys, they used to redshirt to get used to the academic side of things. MacKenzie is not the type of kid who will do well sitting out of football for an entire year, away from home, in a school that is REALLY challenging academically. His tweets this week about not starting are an indication of this, but not the first signs of it. The staff is aware of this. He's a stud, and he's going to want to play right away. Like Davonte Neal, they'll have to keep him engaged.

3. I get the whole "Just take him, he really wants to be Irish!" side of things. Absolutely. However, I'm not sure everyone realizes just what an incredible jump high school to Notre Dame is for these athletes. It's not just scores with him, it's grades as well. Reportedly, he has messed up a lot with his grades, which is why he is in the situation he is in. If he's having a difficult time getting a passing score for his ACT/SAT, and he can't even get passing grades in high school, what's going to happen when he gets to Notre Dame, and he is trying to juggle REAL courses which require real studying with professors that won't give him a break while putting in all the time it takes to be a football star. That will be incredibly difficult.

Guys like Golson (who has a much better academic record) and Grant felt it was so difficult that they had to cheat, multiple times, putting their careers in jeopardy. The academic side of things is no joke.

I'm not saying they shouldn't take him. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry and some people think. He's got a major battle just to get accepted to ND (he's got a bit of a battle just to get qualified to play anywhere), and he's got to do it before Nelson or Quick decide (if one were to choose ND that would be it for Mac; Quick is becoming a longshot, but Nelson might not have that many great options at this point). I like the kid and I hope he can get it together, but gun to my head, I'd say that the chances of him being Irish in August are about 5-10%.

EDIT: as for Tee, according to someone who would know on ISD, Tee never took classes at ND. He arrived, they realized he wasn't qualified, so he wasn't allowed to take classes and was in limbo for a few weeks while they figured out what the hell went wrong. That was a giant clusterf***.

 

[aubeirish]

3. I get the whole "Just take him, he really wants to be Irish!" side of things. Absolutely. However, I'm not sure everyone realizes just what an incredible jump high school to Notre Dame is for these athletes. It's not just scores with him, it's grades as well. Reportedly, he has messed up a lot with his grades, which is why he is in the situation he is in. If he's having a difficult time getting a passing score for his ACT/SAT, and he can't even get passing grades in high school, what's going to happen when he gets to Notre Dame, and he is trying to juggle REAL courses which require real studying with professors that won't give him a break while putting in all the time it takes to be a football star. That will be incredibly difficult.

This ^^.
If he qualifies, then great. That said, I have a hard time believing a kid who is struggling to have passing grades in high school and these tests will ever succeed at ND. It is not impossible, but it just seems far fetched.
We all like a good story, but let's be realistic here. I'm usually very optimistic, but I just don't see this one happening.

 

[koonja]

1. Just because a kid has an offer, doesn't mean he is a take. Lots of players, every year, get offers from schools all over the country and end up either going the Juco route or end up greyshirting bc of their academics. So just because he has offers from these schools, doesn't mean he is a take. Hell, he is a 'commit' to us and he isn't even a take yet.

2. When we used to take the "Prop 48" guys, they used to redshirt to get used to the academic side of things. MacKenzie is not the type of kid who will do well sitting out of football for an entire year, away from home, in a school that is REALLY challenging academically. His tweets this week about not starting are an indication of this, but not the first signs of it. The staff is aware of this. He's a stud, and he's going to want to play right away. Like Davonte Neal, they'll have to keep him engaged.

3. I get the whole "Just take him, he really wants to be Irish!" side of things. Absolutely. However, I'm not sure everyone realizes just what an incredible jump high school to Notre Dame is for these athletes. It's not just scores with him, it's grades as well. Reportedly, he has messed up a lot with his grades, which is why he is in the situation he is in. If he's having a difficult time getting a passing score for his ACT/SAT, and he can't even get passing grades in high school, what's going to happen when he gets to Notre Dame, and he is trying to juggle REAL courses which require real studying with professors that won't give him a break while putting in all the time it takes to be a football star. That will be incredibly difficult.

Guys like Golson (who has a much better academic record) and Grant felt it was so difficult that they had to cheat, multiple times, putting their careers in jeopardy. The academic side of things is no joke.

I'm not saying they shouldn't take him. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry and some people think. He's got a major battle just to get accepted to ND (he's got a bit of a battle just to get qualified to play anywhere), and he's got to do it before Nelson or Quick decide (if one were to choose ND that would be it for Mac; Quick is becoming a longshot, but Nelson might not have that many great options at this point). I like the kid and I hope he can get it together, but gun to my head, I'd say that the chances of him being Irish in August are about 5-10%.

EDIT: as for Tee, according to someone who would know on ISD, Tee never took classes at ND. He arrived, they realized he wasn't qualified, so he wasn't allowed to take classes and was in limbo for a few weeks while they figured out what the hell went wrong. That was a giant clusterf***.

You can say the F-word now. That is all.

 

[jmurphy75]

This ^^.
If he qualifies, then great. That said, I have a hard time believing a kid who is struggling to have passing grades in high school and these tests will ever succeed at ND. It is not impossible, but it just seems far fetched.
We all like a good story, but let's be realistic here. I'm usually very optimistic, but I just don't see this one happening.

No one really knows what is going on with his grades, he could ve done horrible his fresh, and soph years and has been the model student since then. I speak from experience, I had no thoughts about going to college my first 2years in HS and took school as a joke. It's hard to dig yourself out once you ve gotten that far behind. All I'm saying is just because he is having grade issues doesn't mean he will have problems at ND

 

[DillonHall]

No one really knows what is going on with his grades, he could ve done horrible his fresh, and soph years and has been the model student since then. I speak from experience, I had no thoughts about going to college my first 2years in HS and took school as a joke. It's hard to dig yourself out once you ve gotten that far behind. All I'm saying is just because he is having grade issues doesn't mean he will have problems at ND

His difficulty on standardized tests suggests that he'll struggle at ND. I mean, who takes the SAT in January of his senior year? That must really suck

 

[woolybug25]

You guys are acting like we don't have guys currently on this team that were conditionally approved to be on it. We have several guys that needed significant help to get into the school. Kids with 2.4 gpa's that had to take SAT's/ACT's several times.

I'm not convinced that IM's profile is significantly different than kids currently players succeeding at ND.

If people don't like his recent tweets, I would argue that he didn't start for his high school team and had been currently trying to do what he can to get into ND. Doesn't sound like a kid who doesn't have the desire.

 

[rtrn2glory]

i hated taking tests....not b/c they were hard just b/c i always found myself thinking i'd rather be doing something else. low test scores don't indicate he'll struggle at ND...like everyone's been saying i'm more worried about the low gpa than test scores

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

In one of my master's courses in Education we looked at high school GPA and SAT's in correlation to college academic success. SAT/ACT was only a 20% correlation. High school GPA was always in the 70's.

Bottom line: if the student comes from a solid high school and has a 2.75 GPA with a lower ACT/ SAT, take the gamble. If not...could spell trouble down the road.

 

[woolybug25]

In one of my master's courses in Education we looked at high school GPA and SAT's in correlation to college academic success. SAT/ACT was only a 20% correlation. High school GPA was always in the 70's.

Bottom line: if the student comes from a solid high school and has a 2.75 GPA with a lower ACT/ SAT, take the gamble. If not...could spell trouble down the road.

There are at least 4-5 guys that will start on this team next season that didn't graduate with a 2.75 gpa.

 

[rtrn2glory]

low gpa + high ACT/SAT score = lazy kid

high gpa + low ACT/SAT score = hard worker in classroom and overachiever

low gpa + low ACT/SAT score = struggles academically and needs help....also could be lazy, but hard to tell

feel free to disagree, but this is one way to look at it from a teacher's perspecitive

 

[IrishJayhawk]

In one of my master's courses in Education we looked at high school GPA and SAT's in correlation to college academic success. SAT/ACT was only a 20% correlation. High school GPA was always in the 70's.

Bottom line: if the student comes from a solid high school and has a 2.75 GPA with a lower ACT/ SAT, take the gamble. If not...could spell trouble down the road.

This is right. HS Grades are the best predictor and SAT/ACT scores are statistically significant, but not nearly as robust a predictor.

High-School Grades Are Best Predictors of College Success, Study Finds - News - The Chronicle of Higher Education