Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

[RyCo1983]

I may agree with your assessment of BJax. Was your MAC analogy sarcasm? I also watched Florida State destroy the amazing NIU and Jordan Lynch last year. The MAC makes Michigan State's offense look good.

Yes! Mostly sarcasm.

Sarcasm font is so last year.
Didn't think it was cool to use anymore.

Lynch did hang 50+ on a Purdue team ND barely squeaked by.
But, yeah, it was mostly sarcastic.

I love watching the better MAC teams face off, they are usually very exciting back and forth games. Wednesday's should be another good one. But beyond NIU, most of them can't hang with AQ conference teams at all.

 

[AvesEvo]

Kelly definitely called plays at UC. Jeff Quinn was a better Offensive Coordinator but Kelly still called plays.

Serious question, what is the point in having an offensive coordinator if you call the plays?

 

[RyCo1983]

Serious question, what is the point in having an offensive coordinator if you call the plays?

Practices, delegating the responsibility to teach the playbook to your players. Preparation stuff.

 

[ryno 24]

I think what Rees has been able to do this year is pretty remarkable. He looks like an Ivy league QB out there honestly, so all credit to Kelly/Martin for putting Rees in a position to put up solid stats. My main complaint is with the schemes and the substitutions. As many have noted on here, it make literally no sense to come out with an empty set on 3rd and 2. With a dual-threat QB its fine, but it gives the defense a MASSIVE advantage on 3rd and 2 to say to them "we are 100% throwing the ball on this play." The lack of identity on offense also is perplexing, as we run at will one week and then abandon the run the next week. Finally, the substitutions allow for no rhythm in the slightest, as it seems like we have 2-3 guys subbing in/out every play. Kelly likes to say that he can't run no-huddle without a dual-threat QB, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down Chip Kelly in Philly.

I have also been disappointed with the identity of the offense. I wanted to go more towards an Oregon or Auburn type offense where we run the ball (We run more of a power spread when we are at our best similar to Auburn) but I also think the fact that teams are challenging Kelly by putting 8 in the box every game forces Rees to try and beat them deep may also be a problem with the run game. Chad Pennington would be a very fair comparison and he struggled when teams made him throw it deep

 

[GBdomer]

It's was like 2 and 3 and let's have tommy roll to the right and throw on the run. Same throw he hasn't made in four years. Then let's go 5 wide on 3rd and 2. I got it.

 

[RyCo1983]

It's was like 2 and 3 and let's have tommy roll to the right and throw on the run. Same throw he hasn't made in four years. Then let's go 5 wide on 3rd and 2. I got it.

GBDomer...
Chuck Martin...
GBDomer IS Chuck Martin!

 

[tko]

GBDomer...
Chuck Martin...
GBDomer IS Chuck Martin!

and TP is Bob Diaco?

 

[NDWorld247]

Agreed, but what to do with CM now if a "real OC" is brought in?

Position coach on defense, full-time special teams coordinator, division 2 head coach...I don't care what he does, or if he's even at ND (he adds very little as a recruiter), as long as he's not in the offense's meeting room every day.

 

[gkIrish]

Empty backfield on 3rd and short FTW. If Manning, Brees, and Brady do it, must be a good idea.

 

[tadman95]

I hate the spread offense. It ain't footbawl....

Ever see a great spread work with a QB that didn't have at least one strong skillset; throwing or running. Notice I didn't say knowledge of the playbook.

We don't need no stinking OC. Let's just put our 11 best Bubba's against their best Bubba's and see who's got the best Bubba's.

Let's just play some footbawl. Spreads have no manhood in them.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Identity starts with who you recruit. With this year's class, what does that say about where Kelly may be headed offensively?

For the record, I fall in the "run the ball first" group mentality. Two things I know... you have to run the ball to win championships and you have to play good defense to win championships.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Identity starts with who you recruit. With this year's class, what does that say about where Kelly may be headed offensively?

For the record, I fall in the "run the ball first" group mentality. Two things I know... you have to run the ball to win championships and you have to play good defense to win championships.

Cmon now. What do you or your team know about winning championships.

 

[kmoose]

Let's face it both Kelly and Martin are clueless when it comes to calling plays.

Lets face it........... you are clueless about football. Kelly was the play caller last year, when the team went undefeated in the regular season. But, yeah........ he's clueless!

 

[FearTheBeard]

Everytime someone says they dont like certain schemes or things the coaches do someone has to come in and say "kelly and staff knows so much more than any of you and you guys just think you know so much about football." Nobody claims that, just because someone would rather see a different style of play or different schemes doesnt mean they claim to know more than the coaches. People can make observations thay our play calling is terrible or some guys cant tackle or run well up the middle. Its a discussion board so people will discuss,just let it be. I agree with this thread, nothing drives me crazy more than seein ridiculous play calling. I remember watching my brothers freshman football team and they would roll their left handed QB to right all the time. I about lost my mind every game

 

[kmoose]

Everytime someone says they dont like certain schemes or things the coaches do someone has to come in and say "kelly and staff knows so much more than any of you and you guys just think you know so much about football." Nobody claims that, just because someone would rather see a different style of play or different schemes doesnt mean they claim to know more than the coaches. People can make observations thay our play calling is terrible or some guys cant tackle or run well up the middle. Its a discussion board so people will discuss,just let it be. I agree with this thread, nothing drives me crazy more than seein ridiculous play calling. I remember watching my brothers freshman football team and they would roll their left handed QB to right all the time. I about lost my mind every game

People disagree with the decisions of the coaches all of the time, and only on rare occassions do they get told to STFU. And it is almost always for the same reason. The OP here did not just disagree with the play calling, they went so far as to say that Kelly and Martin are clueless play callers. That's clearly not the case, so they took a little crap for that. Just like they should........

 

[IrishLax]

There is already a whole thread on this.......

 

[FearTheBeard]

People disagree with the decisions of the coaches all of the time, and only on rare occassions do they get told to STFU. And it is almost always for the same reason. The OP here did not just disagree with the play calling, they went so far as to say that Kelly and Martin are clueless play callers. That's clearly not the case, so they took a little crap for that. Just like they should........

Clueless is definitely exaggerated, so i guess i understand. But id definitely say our play calling has been pretty damn bad

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I just wish we had a identity. Do we run first, pass first, up tempo, snails pace, we're all over the place and that's on the coaches. Wisconsin, run the ball. Alabama, run the ball. Ohio State, read option. Oregon, read option. Texas a&m, manziel show. I can go on and on...ND, who the f*** knows. Everyone says Kelly adapts to his QB. I disagree. Maybe he did at cincy but not at ND. If he did he knows if tommy has the reigns, it's heavy on the run and play action and you DO NOT roll him out. It should be Folston/cam and Niklas all day. Predictable? Absolutely. But why can't it be what we do? We're playing Golson football with Tommy. I blame Tommy for some his poor choices, but I feel like he gets set up to fail with some of the play calling.

 

[Redbar]

I just wish we had a identity. Do we run first, pass first, up tempo, snails pace, we're all over the place and that's on the coaches. Wisconsin, run the ball. Alabama, run the ball. Ohio State, read option. Oregon, read option. Texas a&m, manziel show. I can go on and on...ND, who the f*** knows. Everyone says Kelly adapts to his QB. I disagree. Maybe he did at cincy but not at ND. If he did he knows if tommy has the reigns, it's heavy on the run and play action and you DO NOT roll him out. It should be Folston/cam and Niklas all day. Predictable? Absolutely. But why can't it be what we do? We're playing Golson football with Tommy. I blame Tommy for some his poor choices, but I feel like he gets set up to fail with some of the play calling.

Going to have to agree with this especially the bolded portion.

 

[IrishLax]

I listened to Power Hour today and it just made me more upset about Martin being the OC. I have no doubt he can be an asset on defense... at the same time, I have no doubt that he is a bad OC and has no qualifications to be a QB coach. The only thing that mitigates these issues is that Kelly plays an active role in QB coaching and the offense.

ISD confirmed on Power Hour that Martin is calling the plays. That also means he's the guy who is deciding to shuffle around personnel like he's a 15 year old girl who can't decide what outfit he wants to wear. Every time we go empty on 3rd and short it is him. Every time you want to scream at the television because you know exactly what play is coming or can't understand why we're doing XYZ... it's him.

I don't even blame him that much. Simply put, he's in this position because Kelly chose to put him there, and he won't be removed baring the DC spot opening on defense because Kelly has such a longstanding relationship with him.

He also isn't a good recruiter on many levels, including the fact that I get the impression that multiple prospects have been turned off by the fact that he is the QB coach/OC, not to mention conflicts with certain players who opted to transfer. He's not Al Borges level bad, but he's pretty darn not good at his job.

After 4 years of Tommy Rees he calling rollouts? Really? He's making him drop back and sling it all over the field, instead of establishing a running game and letting him throw off play action WHERE HE IS ACTUALLY REALLY EFFECTIVE. Notre Dame is in generally good hands with Kelly and this staff but Martin is definitely part of the problem. He + Kelly blew it this year when it came to establishing an identity in the offseason and how best to attack defenses with what they've got.

 

[AvesEvo]

Lets face it........... you are clueless about football. Kelly was the play caller last year, when the team went undefeated in the regular season. But, yeah........ he's clueless!

Last years team wasn't exactly known for their offense.

 

[Rack Em]

I listened to Power Hour today and it just made me more upset about Martin being the OC. I have no doubt he can be an asset on defense... at the same time, I have no doubt that he is a bad OC and has no qualifications to be a QB coach. The only thing that mitigates these issues is that Kelly plays an active role in QB coaching and the offense.

ISD confirmed on Power Hour that Martin is calling the plays. That also means he's the guy who is deciding to shuffle around personnel like he's a 15 year old girl who can't decide what outfit he wants to wear. Every time we go empty on 3rd and short it is him. Every time you want to scream at the television because you know exactly what play is coming or can't understand why we're doing XYZ... it's him.

I don't even blame him that much. Simply put, he's in this position because Kelly chose to put him there, and he won't be removed baring the DC spot opening on defense because Kelly has such a longstanding relationship with him.

He also isn't a good recruiter on many levels, including the fact that I get the impression that multiple prospects have been turned off by the fact that he is the QB coach/OC, not to mention conflicts with certain players who opted to transfer. He's not Al Borges level bad, but he's pretty darn not good at his job.

After 4 years of Tommy Rees he calling rollouts? Really? He's making him drop back and sling it all over the field, instead of establishing a running game and letting him throw off play action WHERE HE IS ACTUALLY REALLY EFFECTIVE. Notre Dame is in generally good hands with Kelly and this staff but Martin is definitely part of the problem. He + Kelly blew it this year when it came to establishing an identity in the offseason and how best to attack defenses with what they've got.

That's hard to do when you're interviewing in Philadelphia and then bolt the country immediately afterwards. I have a seriously hard time believing Kelly was committed to ND this offseason and it's showing big time.

 

[DCIrish]

Lets face it........... you are clueless about football. Kelly was the play caller last year, when the team went undefeated in the regular season. But, yeah........ he's clueless!

Offense was nothing special last year and the defense was the reason they went 12-0. Even if Martin calls the plays Kelly is responsible for putting him in that position. Plenty of blame to go around for both. One undefeated regular season doesn't mean they're beyond criticism.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

I listened to Power Hour today and it just made me more upset about Martin being the OC. I have no doubt he can be an asset on defense... at the same time, I have no doubt that he is a bad OC and has no qualifications to be a QB coach. The only thing that mitigates these issues is that Kelly plays an active role in QB coaching and the offense.

ISD confirmed on Power Hour that Martin is calling the plays. That also means he's the guy who is deciding to shuffle around personnel like he's a 15 year old girl who can't decide what outfit he wants to wear. Every time we go empty on 3rd and short it is him. Every time you want to scream at the television because you know exactly what play is coming or can't understand why we're doing XYZ... it's him.

I don't even blame him that much. Simply put, he's in this position because Kelly chose to put him there, and he won't be removed baring the DC spot opening on defense because Kelly has such a longstanding relationship with him.

He also isn't a good recruiter on many levels, including the fact that I get the impression that multiple prospects have been turned off by the fact that he is the QB coach/OC, not to mention conflicts with certain players who opted to transfer. He's not Al Borges level bad, but he's pretty darn not good at his job.

After 4 years of Tommy Rees he calling rollouts? Really? He's making him drop back and sling it all over the field, instead of establishing a running game and letting him throw off play action WHERE HE IS ACTUALLY REALLY EFFECTIVE. Notre Dame is in generally good hands with Kelly and this staff but Martin is definitely part of the problem. He + Kelly blew it this year when it came to establishing an identity in the offseason and how best to attack defenses with what they've got.

Speaking of Al Borges. Do you expect Hoke to fire him after this year?

 

[Rack Em]

Speaking of Al Borges. Do you expect Hoke to fire him after this year?

I don't think Hoke understands that Borges is bad at his job.

 

[anarin]

Offense was nothing special last year and the defense was the reason they went 12-0. Even if Martin calls the plays Kelly is responsible for putting him in that position. Plenty of blame to go around for both. One undefeated regular season doesn't mean they're beyond criticism.

Heres the thing, people like you criticize if they go 11-1 and they had that 1 loss. "The world is ending!!" you say, fire them all!!!!

I don't remember last year at any point all this bad mouthing about the crappy offense. It's W's and L's that determine this right? But that's not even good enough because now we have jokers saying that last year was pure luck and Kelly is basically Weis.

I'm at a loss for words with alot of this fanbase.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

That's hard to do when you're interviewing in Philadelphia and then bolt the country immediately afterwards. I have a seriously hard time believing Kelly was committed to ND this offseason and it's showing big time.

Agreed. I'm not a Urban Meyer nut swinger but i live in Ohio and all my friends are in the OSU cult. With that being said, Meyer doesn't like what's going on? HE makes changes, defense sucks? He tells Fickel and Co. About it and tells them to make adjustments or it's there ***. I know Coaches have different philosophy's but c'mon. I'd feel a lot better about a loss if I felt that Kelly and Co. Cared as much as I/we do. I just feel like they shrug there shoulders and like "eh, it's tough to win especially when you have 3 TO" no kidding! So stop throwing the damn ball around the yard like we're down 30 with a inept QB. Young eager running back ( Folston ) wanting carries and showed a spark the week prior, play him? Hell no that makes to much sense. Run a out route or s simply hook to Niklas? Hell no makes to much sense. Let's roll tommy out and increase the odds of a pick or incomplete pass to 97%? Bingo! Dial it up. Pay me six figures, I can call that crap.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Rack em, I 100% agree with you. He put a dark cloud on the season before it started. He has the right to look for a job, but perception is reality. And we lost out on this one. Looking at the Eagles Job and then going on vacation, it just didn't look good.

Oh well, it is what it is. All of us fans will side one way or the other and debate it.

Go Irish

 

[DCIrish]

Heres the thing, people like you criticize if they go 11-1 and they had that 1 loss. "The world is ending!!" you say, fire them all!!!!

I don't remember last year at any point all this bad mouthing about the crappy offense. It's W's and L's that determine this right? But that's not even good enough because now we have jokers saying that last year was pure luck and Kelly is basically Weis.

I'm at a loss for words with alot of this fanbase.

Issues become more glaring when you lose, but the bigger problem is that the same things are still happening in year four. Wasted timeouts every week, no offensive identity, and bad playcalling are still issues for this staff.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I've never been critical of this staff, and if anything I have probably gone too far the other way and been a bit confrontational when defending them against criticism. And I'm still not in the "fire everyone - heads must roll!" camp. But you'd have to be a complete sycophant not to acknowledge that there are play calling issues with this offense. First of all, we are ten games into a twelve game season and I can't tell you what we do exceptionally well. Ideally, we would do that thing when we had to have a play, but we don't.

At a high level, the biggest problem I have with the play calling is that we are either too vertical or too horizontal in the passing game, and don't make enough of an effort to attack the middle of the field. We are constantly trying to beat coverage over the top or running WR screens. Those are things you do when defenses cheat to keep them honest; that isn't the basis of an offense. We have good weapons to attack the middle of the field. Two good TEs and some receivers who seem like they could make one move and get open and then try to get the ball into their hands when they're moving and let them create YAC.

I'm not a football coach. I played some football, and I watch a lot of football, but this isn't my job. So maybe someone can correct me, but that is my general sense after watching this offense sputter for 3 months and also seeing how offenses that consistently move the ball operate.