Injury update after Navy

[wizards8507]

Not just this week, but in years past as well. There's a reason they were taken out of the NFL.

Day has a high ankle sprain. Those things take about six weeks to truly heal. If you aggravate it, then it takes longer.

Cut blocking is still perfectly legal in the NFL, not sure what you're talking about.

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[IrishJayhawk]

Cut blocking is still perfectly legal in the NFL, not sure what you're talking about.

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Probably referring to chop blocks, which are similar...but different.

 

[connor_in]

Probably referring to chop blocks, which are similar...but different.

Never been clear on the difference in those two

 

[Emcee77]

Never been clear on the difference in those two

Cut blocking is just blocking below the waist. Chop blocking is blocking someone below the waist while he is engaged with another blocker and is much more dangerous.

 

[Junkhead]

Never been clear on the difference in those two

In gridiron football, a chop block is an attempt by an offensive player to cut block a defensive player who is already being blocked by another offensive player. The second block may need to be below the thigh or knee, depending on the code. In the NFL, NCAA, and in high school football, the penalty for a violation is 15 yards.[1] They were first banned in the NCAA in 1980

In gridiron football, cut blocking is an offensive line technique that consists of an offensive player knocking a defensive player down by hitting his knees. (Yes, this sounds dirty)

Taken from Wikipedia. Still not totally clear.

 

[irish o'phile]

I hurt my hip doing deadlifts today. I blame it on watching chop blocks yesterday. Stupid Navy.

 

[pkt77242]

In gridiron football, a chop block is an attempt by an offensive player to cut block a defensive player who is already being blocked by another offensive player. The second block may need to be below the thigh or knee, depending on the code. In the NFL, NCAA, and in high school football, the penalty for a violation is 15 yards.[1] They were first banned in the NCAA in 1980

In gridiron football, cut blocking is an offensive line technique that consists of an offensive player knocking a defensive player down by hitting his knees. (Yes, this sounds dirty)

Taken from Wikipedia. Still not totally clear.

Yes it is clear. A cut block is a one on one block at the knees. A chop block is when one person engages the defender by blocking them and then another offensive player comes and blocks the engaged defender in the legs. Chop blocks are very dangerous because since the sender is already being blocked they can't defend themselves and are much more likely to cause injury.

 

[IrishLax]

If you eliminated cut blocking for ineligible receivers within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage it'd be a simple rule and save a lot of ligaments.

 

[irishroo]

If you eliminated cut blocking for ineligible receivers within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage it'd be a simple rule and save a lot of ligaments.

There's the idea. You can't totally eliminate cut-blocking because any D coordinator worth his salt would bring the house every play knowing RBs with blitz pickup duties can't cut guys coming in and certainly can't handle a D lineman straight up.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Out for season. Missed considerable time.
Initially hurt while playing Air Force/Navy via cut block.

DE: Tuitt, Schwenke
NT: Nix, Springmann
DE: Day, Rochelle

CAT: Shembo, Ishaq, Okwara
ILB: Grace, Fox
ILB: Calabrese, Moore
DOG: Spond, Smith, Councell

CB: Jackson, Luke
CB: Russell
FS: Farley, Baratti
SS: Shumate, Collinsworth
Just ridiculous.

 

[CanadalovesND]

It's impossible to make a healthy TWO DEEP for our front 7 without doubling someone else at another position.

That is even more ridiculous..

We could be heading into the PITT game with only 5 healthy, scholarship 3-4 lineman.... only 5!!! Assuming Nix and Day don't play.

DE: Tuitt, Utupo
NT: Jones, Stockton
DE: Rochell

CAT: Shembo, Okwara
ILB: Calabrese, Moore
ILB: Fox, Schmidt
DOG: Just Jaylon...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Day was re-injured on a cheap play. He was running away from the guy and the dude grabs his ankles. What a d-bag. I hate playing these knee-killing service academies, especially when they hang around.

 

[phgreek]

Sucks hearing about all of these ligament injuries. How the hell did Nix finish the game against USC? Is Kelly overstating his issues?

Without Nix/Schwenke/Day/Ishaq our DL basically looks like...

Tuitt-Jones?-Rochelle?

With no depth behind them for spelling. Playing against service academies with their cut blocks really might have derailed our season.

...I hate playing these guys...I have a yearly rant on cut blocks...I'll spare everyone.

That said...it didn't seem like we had any injuries against these guys last year...I think there is a correlation between hesitant play and injuries against the academies...seems like if folks are dictating the contact and battering the sh!t out of them on the way to their assignments...we play better and no one gets hurt...

 

[wizards8507]

If you eliminated cut blocking for ineligible receivers within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage it'd be a simple rule and save a lot of ligaments.

I think the current five yard rule is reasonable.

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[IrishLax]

I think the current five yard rule is reasonable.

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? What current rule? There is no restriction right now on people inside the tackle box blocking below the waist.

 

[kmoose]

? What current rule? There is no restriction right now on people inside the tackle box blocking below the waist.

In the NCAA, cut blocking is allowed as long as the block is no more than five yards away from the line of scrimmage and it is inside the tackle box.

 

[wizards8507]

? What current rule? There is no restriction right now on people inside the tackle box blocking below the waist.

Rule 2, Section 3, Article 7 defines the low-blocking zone:

a. The low-blocking zone is the rectangle that extends seven yards laterally in each direction from the snapper, five yards beyond the neutral zone and back to Team A’s end line. (See Appendix D.)

b. The low-blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone.

Basically anywhere in the tackle box, in the backfield, or within the tackle box five yards downfield.

 

[irishroo]

I said earlier I agreed with Lax about eliminating cuts by in eligible receiver within a yard of the line of scrimmage, but the more I think about it the more I disagree. Doing that would, while certainly preventing some injuries, effectively eliminate the 3 step drop from the collective offensive playbook. The purpose if the 3 step is to get the ball out if the QBs hands before any DL can get to him. Linemen in these plays are usually instructed to cut opposing players rather than engage in standard pass blocking in order to get the hands of the DL down and out of throwing lanes, thus opening up quick slants and drags. I don't think we want to see those types of plays eliminated from the game.

 

[NDWorld247]

On the topic of cut blocks...any high school or college coaches out there with drills to teach how to cut block or how to defend the cut block? I basically have our OL do it against the sled and our DL works on it but in the drill I do they know it's coming so it's not a great simulator for live action.

I coach the OL/DL at my HS and the HC is always getting after me about having our OL cut block in practice. His reasoning is they need to learn it and our defenders need to learn how to defend it. I absolutely refuse to allow them to do it against our own team. We've gotten into some heated discussions about it and I refuse to allow it. He hasn't given me an ultimatum, but if he did I'd walk out of practice. That's how strongly I feel against doing it.

The biggest reason I don't allow it is the injury concern, but there's also the fact I was great at cut blocking and it was never something I was taught, so I'm not convinced it's something that needs to be done live in practice to be efficient at. Any thoughts?

 

[dublinirish]

On the topic of cut blocks...any high school or college coaches out there with drills to teach how to cut block or how to defend the cut block? I basically have our OL do it against the sled and our DL works on it but in the drill I do they know it's coming so it's not a great simulator for live action.

I coach the OL/DL at my HS and the HC is always getting after me about having our OL cut block in practice. His reasoning is they need to learn it and our defenders need to learn how to defend it. I absolutely refuse to allow them to do it against our own team. We've gotten into some heated discussions about it and I refuse to allow it. He hasn't given me an ultimatum, but if he did I'd walk out of practice. That's how strongly I feel against doing it.

The biggest reason I don't allow it is the injury concern, but there's also the fact I was great at cut blocking and it was never something I was taught, so I'm not convinced it's something that needs to be done live in practice to be efficient at. Any thoughts?

i swear when i watch Dan Fox and Carlo play its like everytime they get cut they have no idea what to do with their hands or how to engage a low block and keep their knees out of reach.

 

[IrishLax]

Rule 2, Section 3, Article 7 defines the low-blocking zone:

a. The low-blocking zone is the rectangle that extends seven yards laterally in each direction from the snapper, five yards beyond the neutral zone and back to Team A’s end line. (See Appendix D.)

b. The low-blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone.

Basically anywhere in the tackle box, in the backfield, or within the tackle box five yards downfield.

Is where it is allowed right...? So, I'm saying that I would change that. I wouldn't allow firing off the line at people's knees. I'm OK with someone having to go low in the backfield to chip a rusher or what have you, but having guys immediately firing off the line and diving at the knees of linemen/linebackers I think needs to get removed. It doesn't add anything to the game and is unsafe.

You're saying you're cool with it as is?

 

[IrishLax]

I said earlier I agreed with Lax about eliminating cuts by in eligible receiver within a yard of the line of scrimmage, but the more I think about it the more I disagree. Doing that would, while certainly preventing some injuries, effectively eliminate the 3 step drop from the collective offensive playbook. The purpose if the 3 step is to get the ball out if the QBs hands before any DL can get to him. Linemen in these plays are usually instructed to cut opposing players rather than engage in standard pass blocking in order to get the hands of the DL down and out of throwing lanes, thus opening up quick slants and drags. I don't think we want to see those types of plays eliminated from the game.

Interesting perspective. I'll have to think about this more. Maybe you could allow it only on passing plays?

 

[irishroo]

Interesting perspective. I'll have to think about this more. Maybe you could allow it only on passing plays?

In theory maybe, but what happens when the receiver is covered and the QB tucks it and runs?

 

[IrishLax]

In theory maybe, but what happens when the receiver is covered and the QB tucks it and runs?

Yeah.... hmmm...

 

[irishroo]

On the topic of cut blocks...any high school or college coaches out there with drills to teach how to cut block or how to defend the cut block? I basically have our OL do it against the sled and our DL works on it but in the drill I do they know it's coming so it's not a great simulator for live action.

I coach the OL/DL at my HS and the HC is always getting after me about having our OL cut block in practice. His reasoning is they need to learn it and our defenders need to learn how to defend it. I absolutely refuse to allow them to do it against our own team. We've gotten into some heated discussions about it and I refuse to allow it. He hasn't given me an ultimatum, but if he did I'd walk out of practice. That's how strongly I feel against doing it.

The biggest reason I don't allow it is the injury concern, but there's also the fact I was great at cut blocking and it was never something I was taught, so I'm not convinced it's something that needs to be done live in practice to be efficient at. Any thoughts?

When I played there was no chance we were cutting live in practice either but of course still had to learn, as you said. The drill we did most often is kind of hard to explain but I'll try. We would line up in a 3-point in front of a single tackling dummy rather than a blocking sled. Coaches would tie a rope to the handles near the top and pull from both sides (think tug o war with dummy in the middle). They'd also tape a line on the dummy to simulate where a players knee/thigh would be. We had to explode out of our stance and hit the dummy on the tape line with the shoulder pads. Goal was to get the bottom of the dummy to swing up as high as possible (think of it like a pendulum). Not super high tech, but effective.

 

[wizards8507]

Is where it is allowed right...? So, I'm saying that I would change that. I wouldn't allow firing off the line at people's knees. I'm OK with someone having to go low in the backfield to chip a rusher or what have you, but having guys immediately firing off the line and diving at the knees of linemen/linebackers I think needs to get removed. It doesn't add anything to the game and is unsafe.

You're saying you're cool with it as is?

Yes, it's football. Knees, heads, shoulders, ankles, etc. get hurt in football. Overreacting to injuries is how we get stupid a*s rules like targeting. Defending cut blocks isn't rocket science. Hands on the shoulders, side step, face in the dirt. Like tackling-related injuries, the problems with cut blocking are often due to poor technique, whether it's a coaching issue or just poor execution.

 

[Wild Bill]

Yes, it's football. Knees, heads, shoulders, ankles, etc. get hurt in football. Overreacting to injuries is how we get stupid a*s rules like targeting. Defending cut blocks isn't rocket science. Hands on the shoulders, side step, face in the dirt. Like tackling-related injuries, the problems with cut blocking are often due to poor technique, whether it's a coaching issue or just poor execution.

Yeah, if you're playing a base defense. You read and react to the blocker if front of you.

What happens if it's a blitz and the defensive end is asked to cross the tackle's face, penetrate the inside gap and the tackle goes low and cuts his outside knee? He's defenseless. What does he do?

 

[Wild Bill]

On the topic of cut blocks...any high school or college coaches out there with drills to teach how to cut block or how to defend the cut block? I basically have our OL do it against the sled and our DL works on it but in the drill I do they know it's coming so it's not a great simulator for live action.

I coach the OL/DL at my HS and the HC is always getting after me about having our OL cut block in practice. His reasoning is they need to learn it and our defenders need to learn how to defend it. I absolutely refuse to allow them to do it against our own team. We've gotten into some heated discussions about it and I refuse to allow it. He hasn't given me an ultimatum, but if he did I'd walk out of practice. That's how strongly I feel against doing it.

The biggest reason I don't allow it is the injury concern, but there's also the fact I was great at cut blocking and it was never something I was taught, so I'm not convinced it's something that needs to be done live in practice to be efficient at. Any thoughts?

You need a large medicine ball and a good arm.

On defense, get them to come out of a stance and launch the ball, like a bowling ball. Have a ball carrier coming behind the ball (simulate a running play) and have the defender use his hands to shed the block (the ball) while keeping his eyes up at the back to make the tackle. It's not bad but you need a good throw/thrower to simulate the action.

The pursuit drill is good b/c you can use up/down to simulate shedding the cut block against air. Just scream cut block, have them hit the deck (hands on the defender) and get back up quick (make the tackle). Good for conditioning and defending cut blocks.

On offense, you can use the medicine ball too. Just launch it like a bowling ball and have the hogs get after it, get low and get shoulder into the meat of the ball. It helps with timing and getting low.

When you cut block you should maintain the block. So during individual time, you can have the o-lineman work their steps to cut block, engage in the cut block and finish the cut block. I like finishing with the hip grinding down the defender and basically bear crawling over them. It's half speed and relatively safe. I've never seen anyone get injured.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>MT <a href="https://twitter.com/Matt_Fortuna">@Matt_Fortuna</a>: Good news for ND. Both Chris Watt and Sheldon Day are available for interviews Wed., a strong sign they'll play at <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Pitt&src=hash">#Pitt</a>.</p>— Rachel Terlep (@eTruth_Irish) <a href="https://twitter.com/eTruth_Irish/statuses/397762879908102144">November 5, 2013</a></blockquote>
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