'13 CA S Max Redfield (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

[Cackalacky]

I don't understand why its so hard to see that BK does not want inexperienced people playing defensive QB. The safeties make the calls on the field. It takes time to coach that up. The young guys that are playing are probably doing what they are told and not making calls like Collinsworth or Farley do

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I don't understand why its so hard to see that BK does not want inexperienced people playing defensive QB. The safeties make the calls on the field. It takes time to coach that up. The young guys that are playing are probably doing what they are told and not making calls like Collinsworth or Farley do

Exactly. Reps.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't understand why its so hard to see that BK does not want inexperienced people playing defensive QB. The safeties make the calls on the field. It takes time to coach that up. The young guys that are playing are probably doing what they are told and not making calls like Collinsworth or Farley do

This is true. But it's hard to see Farley holding off Redfield much beyond this season.

 

[Wild Bill]

I don't understand why its so hard to see that BK does not want inexperienced people playing defensive QB. The safeties make the calls on the field. It takes time to coach that up. The young guys that are playing are probably doing what they are told and not making calls like Collinsworth or Farley do

Making tackles is more important than making calls. We don't need a Rhodes scholar back there. We need an athlete that likes to hit. The sec is full of them and they play young. I can assure you they're not splitting atoms.

 

[rocket66]

Making tackles is more important than making calls. We don't need a Rhodes scholar back there. We need an athlete that likes to hit. The sec is full of them and they play young. I can assure you they're not splitting atoms.

Careful, there's a lot of Farley protection around here . And I agree, these guys have been playing football their entire lives. Let's not make it out to be rocket science to play safety. Give me the athletes that like to hit and have the athleticism to get to the ball all day. I'll take a couple missed calls against Navy and Pitt. Good trade-off, IMO.

 

[IrishLion]

Careful, there's a lot of Farley protection around here . And I agree, these guys have been playing football their entire lives. Let's not make it out to be rocket science to play safety. Give me the athletes that like to hit and have the athleticism to get to the ball all day. I'll take a couple missed calls against Navy and Pitt. Good trade-off, IMO.

I disagree. Missed calls against a triple-option team would be disastrous, as would miscommunication against Pitt's QB, who has been decent, especially considering the state of the defensive front 7.

Max might have more speed, or be a better tackler, or be better in coverage. But if he can't get the secondary lined up and communicate between coverages/zones, the top of the defense could get blow off.

 

[rocket66]

I disagree. Missed calls against a triple-option team would be disastrous, as would miscommunication against Pitt's QB, who has been decent, especially considering the state of the defensive front 7.

Max might have more speed, or be a better tackler, or be better in coverage. But if he can't get the secondary lined up and communicate between coverages/zones, the top of the defense could get blow off.

The "missed calls' theory is hypothetical anyway. However, the missed tackles from the current starting safeties, are not. How many critical 3rd downs were converted in the navy game due to missed tackles? That was disastrous to me - and it actually happened. No hypotheticals.

 

[IrishLion]

The "missed calls' theory is hypothetical anyway. However, the missed tackles from the current starting safeties, are not. How many critical 3rd downs were converted in the navy game due to missed tackles? That was disastrous to me - and it actually happened. No hypotheticals.

It's also a hypothetical that Redfield would be any better.

 

[greyhammer90]

Max might have more speed, or be a better tackler, or be better in coverage. But if he can't get the secondary lined up and communicate between coverages/zones, the top of the defense could get blow off.

Not to mention the fact that we don't really know if he's better at tackling or covering. All we know is how many stars he has and we've all seen a couple of minutes of highlights against high school competition.

 

[IrishLion]

Not to mention the fact that we don't really know if he's better at tackling or covering. All we know is how many stars he has and we've all seen a couple of minutes of highlights against high school competition.

Haha see my above post just before your reply.

 

[rocket66]

'13 CA S Max Redfield (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

Not to mention the fact that we don't really know if he's better at tackling or covering. All we know is how many stars he has and we've all seen a couple of minutes of highlights against high school competition.

Fair point, he looks to be hard nosed and around the ball on special teams, but that's all we have. My question is, could it really get any worse? Surprised you're not tired of watching him dive at shoes and miss multiple tackles a game. I have nothing against MF, but it's glaringly obvious that it would be hard to get much worse. Although with Shumate coming back this week it should help quite a bit in run support.

 

[Wild Bill]

How can anyone assume after what they saw on Saturday that our safeties were in position?

Farley can't tackle. Period. You cannot play safety if you cannot tackle.

 

[Booslum31]

Fair point, he looks to be hard nosed and around the ball on special teams, but that's all we have. My question is, could it really get any worse? Surprised you're not tired of watching him dive at shoes and miss multiple tackles a game. I have nothing against MF, but it's glaringly obvious that it would be hard to get much worse. Although with Shumate coming back this week it should help quite a bit in run support.

I was surprised that we didn't see Redfield playing against Air Force and Navy because they were such run-oriented schemes. The major reason a coach wouldn't "trust" a freshman safety is pass coverage and insuring nothing gets behind you. There was little concern with that against the Academies. I like what I see with Max on Special Teams (and there's not too much to like about our ST's). I want to see if he can take the appropriate angle and wrap up...something the other two safeties have failed to do consistently.

 

[irishff1014]

I disagree. Missed calls against a triple-option team would be disastrous, as would miscommunication against Pitt's QB, who has been decent, especially considering the state of the defensive front 7.

Max might have more speed, or be a better tackler, or be better in coverage. But if he can't get the secondary lined up and communicate between coverages/zones, the top of the defense could get blow off.

I do believe all the defensive calls were coming from the sideline for the navy game.

 

[IrishLion]

I do believe all the defensive calls were coming from the sideline for the navy game.

Well if you want to be a smartass about it, they were actually coming from the press box.

 

[anarin]

Well if you want to be a smartass about it, they were actually coming from the press box.

Easy ladies... wouldn't wanna bunch some panties.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's also a hypothetical that Redfield would be any better.

Seriously, /thread.

 

[phgreek]

1st bolded: He does get a chance. Every practice. Trust me the coaches know more about what they need, know more about Max's abilities, and know more about Farley's abilities than we do. He's not ready.

2nd bolded: Folston isn't "suddenly" our best back. He's obviously turned the corner in terms of understanding the offense and earning the staffs trust. He's gone through a process. You guys always call for someone that you've never seen play, then when the coaching staff determines he's ready and he comes in and does well, you fault the staff for not putting him in earlier. I see it differently, the fact that Folston is coming in and doing well shows that the coaching staff is doing a good job at assessing when a player is ready for "big reps". There is nothing to suggest that if Folston had been getting the same number of reps in week 1 as he is now he would've been more successful than our veteran backs.

Pin it...make it permanent...frame it...whatever...this is on the money.

How many times has Tommy taken a clean hit...Annnnnd, how many times did he leave the game...How was our production when Tommy went down? What is the likelihood a rookie RB can be made to hesitate and gets himself or someone else carted off?

Hesitation or confusion on D just means we get gashed...but same principles...it takes time and trust.

 

[Domina Nostra]

And as awesome as Jaylon is, he made some big mistakes early on that cost us points in big games. He would have definitely been transitioned in differently had Spond been around. In fact, we'd probably think he was even better because he's have only been put in on situations where he was very comfortable.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This thread has all of a sudden become an interesting confluence of ideas! Thanks Domina, PH, and Buster! Some of you guys before, too!

Brian Kelly handling freshmen this year:

1) Jaylon Smith - several of the coaches the post most knowledgably on other threads all say the same thing, they dumbed the defense down so Jaylon Smith could run. Seriously, I have a friend who has a membership to two different sites and this pretty damned close to a quote. I am taking this to another thread : complex defense retards intelligent first year starter after Bill Belichick warned Kelly to have Diaco simplify.

2) Tarean Folston seems to explode on the scene with 140 yards in game 9. It turns out that Folston's hold back wasn't learning the offense. It turns out he started camp still healing from some injuries and got bruised up right off of the bat. Getting healthy over that postponed his coming out.

3) Max Redfield is developing further before he gets playing time. It looks like the preferred quality in a Free Safety is the ability to be able to set up and communicate coverages to the other db's.

Each of these requires a different level of understanding, the running back seems to require the least, then Jaylon's position, which is hard to tell because of the fact that they may have adapted his out of need and due to his obviously superior talent. And finally it seems that the Irish will play intelligence and experience over athleticism and youth by a wide margin at safety.

 

[Cackalacky]

This is true. But it's hard to see Farley holding off Redfield much beyond this season.

I don't disagree, unless Max is having a hard time making calls.

 

[Cackalacky]

Careful, there's a lot of Farley protection around here . And I agree, these guys have been playing football their entire lives. Let's not make it out to be rocket science to play safety. Give me the athletes that like to hit and have the athleticism to get to the ball all day. I'll take a couple missed calls against Navy and Pitt. Good trade-off, IMO.

I won't. Not in Diaco's scheme. Safeties are the last line of defense and the on field QB in his scheme. BK has even said that Shumate/Collinsworth are on the field depending on what they want for a particular play.

You aren't arguing with me...you are arguing with BK and Diaco.

 

[Cackalacky]

My question is, could it really get any worse?

Yes it could be much worse. Especially seeing how much Diaco depends on safeties knowing what they are doing.

Surprised you're not tired of watching him dive at shoes and miss multiple tackles a game. I have nothing against MF, but it's glaringly obvious that it would be hard to get much worse. Although with Shumate coming back this week it should help quite a bit in run support.

It does not matter what he or I or you think. BK has said several times that Shumate is very physical but he does not make the intelligent choices on the field. So for all your arguing, BK is choosing his poison. Game management.

 

[Cackalacky]

I do believe all the defensive calls were coming from the sideline for the navy game.

:eye roll:

 

[Emcee77]

Careful, there's a lot of Farley protection around here . And I agree, these guys have been playing football their entire lives. Let's not make it out to be rocket science to play safety. Give me the athletes that like to hit and have the athleticism to get to the ball all day. I'll take a couple missed calls against Navy and Pitt. Good trade-off, IMO.

I had to chuckle at this because Farley is one of the few guys who HASN'T been playing football very long. Wasn't he a soccer player until his junior year of high school?

But I get that when you say "these guys" you mean young studs like Redfield, not Farley. And you may be right. The thing is, without being there at practice it's just impossible to know. I mean, everyone was mad about Folston and Bryant not playing, and then we find out that it was because they were hurt. Bryant had that knee issue and Kelly just revealed that Folston was playing limited reps because he had a couple other nagging health issues prior to the hamstring injury he suffered in the OU game, and he is only just getting back to full strength. We were criticizing Kelly for not playing them, and it turns out there was a perfectly good reason for it. So you just never know.

I think Farley had some nice hits but there were other plays that he's just got to make and didn't. Most galling to me was the missed tackle on Swain on that fourth down play on their second-to-last TD drive. The RB just can't squirt away like that ... if you make contact you gotta get ahold of him and bring him down. I'd love to see more of Redfield to see what he can do out there, but I trust CBK to get him out there when he's ready.

 

[GoIrish41]

I disagree. Missed calls against a triple-option team would be disastrous, as would miscommunication against Pitt's QB, who has been decent, especially considering the state of the defensive front 7.

Max might have more speed, or be a better tackler, or be better in coverage. But if he can't get the secondary lined up and communicate between coverages/zones, the top of the defense could get blow off.

If we had the right calls against Navy and their option attack, it did not show. This argument actually supports putting the better athlete on the field, IMO. We didn't have an answer for the option, no matter who was making the defensive calls. The least that they could have done is to have a better tackler on the field to make the play.

 

[irishff1014]

Well if you want to be a smartass about it, they were actually coming from the press box.

Let me clarify that. The adjustments were being called from the sidelines. They would look there an the get in position. I actually wasn't trying to be a smartass or call you out.

 

[Kanye West]

Hardy, Shumate, Barrati, and Redfield will be a solid group of safeties next year

 

[Son of Kenmare]

Fixed it for you

Hardy, Shumate, Barrati, Smith and Redfield will be a solid group of safeties next year

 

[rocket66]

I don't understand why its so hard to see that BK does not want inexperienced people playing defensive QB. The safeties make the calls on the field. It takes time to coach that up. The young guys that are playing are probably doing what they are told and not making calls like Collinsworth or Farley do

.