'13 FL RB Greg Bryant (R.I.P.)

[Whiskeyjack]

Oregon does too. Has Oregon had top classes or am I wrong there?

That's another great example.

Blame the system, blame NDs location, the cold, the academics, whatever you want and there is probably a little bit of truth to every part, but BK needs to integrate elite players sooner. Giving Greg two carries to date is pointless. Same goes for Folston. Both of these guys are more talented than everyone ahead of them at their position and they have not made a mistake to this date. Yet BK doesn't give them a chance in the games. These two, Folston especially can help us win now at the RB position. Invest in your future especially if it doesn't compromise on the present.

If you have a problem with underclass men coming in and taking a spot from an older player, get used to it. It's the way it is now and Greg came in as the most physically impressive back I've ever seen at ND and now he'll never be, maybe because of the issues above but also because BK is too slow to integrate elite talent I'm certain cases.

This gets back to the razor-thin margin for error created by our absurd scheduling practices. Had Kelly played Bryant instead of Folston, then maybe we'd be freaking out over Tarean transferring now instead. Had he played them both a lot, maybe we're 3-3 or worse instead of 4-2. Maybe one of them misses a blitz against ASU, Rees dislocates a shoulder, and Hendrix is our starter for the rest of the season. Would the long-term prospects for our program look better under those circumstances?

Then you'd be b!tching about the losses instead of the transfers.

 

[NDdomer2]

I was going to argue that the Stanford recruiting model would necessitate a shift to their style of offense (which I don't think Kelly wants to do), but then I remembered Baylor. Briles has consistently fielded one of the best offenses in the country without top-flight talent. I'm sure Kelly can find sufficient speed and elusiveness with "RKGs" if he wants.

I'm glad posted this.

I was just going to say that i didn't mean we can't wait until end of cycle for the 5 but they should be the ones that we have been in contact with the while process and replicates their interest the whole process. not those eliminating us from their top 15 in the summer.

 

[Ironman8]

Blame the system, blame NDs location, the cold, the academics, whatever you want and there is probably a little bit of truth to every part, but BK needs to integrate elite players sooner. Giving Greg two carries to date is pointless. Same goes for Folston. Both of these guys are more talented than everyone ahead of them at their position and they have not made a mistake to this date. Yet BK doesn't give them a chance in the games. These two, Folston especially can help us win now at the RB position. Invest in your future especially if it doesn't compromise on the present.

But you don't know if it doesn't compromise the present. Obviously BK thinks it would, otherwise they would be in there.

Hypothetically, what is worse? Putting RBs in who aren't ready to keep them happy and losing a couple extra games because of blown assignments and other freshman struggles, or winning the tight games with the Cam McDaniels' of the world and potentially losing a highly rated RB who doesn't full know his assignments yet?

I'd say Notre Dame, of all places, is one where if you are BK you have to risk losing the kid to win games right away. This fanbase does not handle bad news well, but losing a recruit does not bring the shitstorm that losing games does. Every loss is a travesty, and there are still people call for his head even in close wins.

I really wish we had gotten GB carries and he stayed, and I'm pissed this happened, but I can understand the dynamics of why it did in this case. This doesn't sting me like some others did.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I agree that it's very hard in the beginning. ND should find better balance, but I totally oppose ND playing the cupcakes the other teams do. How does someone get pumped up for a game against Eastern Michigan or North Dakota St.? I would hate it if ND resorted to playing those teams.

They have to.

It's gotta look something like this, for an example:

1- vs. Miami (OH) (FBS chump)
2- vs. Ball State (FBS chump)
3- vs. Michigan State
4- at Pittsburgh (ACC #3)
5- vs. Duke (ACC #5)
6- at Florida State (ACC#1)
7- BYE
8- vs. Southern Cal
9- vs. Navy
10- at Connecticut (FBS mid-level)
11- at Virginia (ACC #4)
12- vs. Virginia Tech (ACC #2)
13- BYE
14- at Stanford
15- BYE

 

[greyhammer90]

They have to.

It's gotta look something like this, for an example:

1- vs. Miami (OH) (FBS chump)
2- vs. Ball State (FBS chump)
3- vs. Michigan State
4- at Pittsburgh
5- vs. Duke
6- at Florida State
7- BYE
8- vs. Southern Cal
9- vs. Navy
10- at Connecticut (FBS mid-level)
11- at Virginia
12- vs. Virginia Tech
13- BYE
14- at Stanford
15- BYE

Even that looks hard as sh*t.

 

[koonja]

Does anyone honestly think we lose an extra game this year because Tarean and Greg carry a combined ~10 carries per game? I don't se how that's possible since every back we have has at least one major flaw and Greg and Tarean seem to be the most complete. If anything it helps us so far this year.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If you have a problem with underclass men coming in and taking a spot from an older player, get used to it. It's the way it is now and Greg came in as the most physically impressive back I've ever seen at ND and now he'll never be, maybe because of the issues above but also because BK is too slow to integrate elite talent I'm certain cases.

Considering how many underclassmen have won jobs in Kelly's tenure, I don't buy it. It's not exactly uncommon that stud RBs struggle with the little things initially. They're asked to do one thing in high school--ball out like crazy, so they don't always know the position at an FBS level.

It's also awfully tough to 1) get five backs good carries and 2) play backups when your schedule has four ranked teams in the first six games. Bryant's time would come against the back half of the schedule.

 

[gkIrish]

And if Kelly had played Bryant over Folston, the latter might be transferring right now instead; which would arguably be a bigger loss, since he seems to be a better RB right now, with a similar ceiling. Had Kelly given both of them a lot of reps, maybe we're 3-3 instead of 4-2; and that still might not make Bryant happy enough to stay. It gets back to us playing a front-loaded schedule and needing to win immediately.

I'm not questioning BKs approach to the situation. I just don't think dismissing this loss and saying we will be fine because he hasn't surpassed other running backs is logical or fair.

We lost Shepard, Lynch and Prestwood and still went undefeated last year. We lost Golson, Kiel and Neal this year, and still have a good shot at BCS bowl. That's "fine" in my book.

If the tone of my post didn't make it clear, I'm talking about the future--especially 2 years from now. Will we be "fine" going forward? Not IMO. I feel good about OL, QB, and WR/TE moving forward. But we don't have much quality depth at any other position, especially Defensive line and RB.

Greenberry allegedly had similar academic issues to Shepard. Fault the staff for not catching it earlier, but I seriously doubt he spurned us for Houston on a whim.

Again, not blaming anyone. My point is that we aren't fine considering players like Greenberry spurned us.

I can't, because there's no other school that has to overcome ND's unique challenges

Which is why I'm frustrated.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Does anyone honestly think we lose an extra game this year because Tarean and Greg carry a combined ~10 carries per game? I don't se how that's possible since every back we have has at least one major flaw and Greg and Tarean seem to be the most complete. If anything it helps us so far this year.

What on Earth are you basing that on?

 

[NDdomer2]

Blame the system, blame NDs location, the cold, the academics, whatever you want and there is probably a little bit of truth to every part, but BK needs to integrate elite players sooner. Giving Greg two carries to date is pointless. Same goes for Folston. Both of these guys are more talented than everyone ahead of them at their position and they have not made a mistake to this date. Yet BK doesn't give them a chance in the games. These two, Folston especially can help us win now at the RB position. Invest in your future especially if it doesn't compromise on the present.

If you have a problem with underclass men coming in and taking a spot from an older player, get used to it. It's the way it is now and Greg came in as the most physically impressive back I've ever seen at ND and now he'll never be, maybe because of the issues above but also because BK is too slow to integrate elite talent I'm certain cases.

1. this is from the guy who has openly stated on this board you arent a good evaluator of talent

2.how do you know they havent made any mistakes. if they were so flawless they would have gotten the touches you think they deserve

 

[Ironman8]

Does anyone honestly think we lose an extra game this year because Tarean and Greg carry a combined ~10 carries per game? I don't se how that's possible since every back we have has at least one major flaw and Greg and Tarean seem to be the most complete. If anything it helps us so far this year.

It's not about what they would do if they got more carries, it's about what would happen if Tommy audibles and they don't know their proper assignment and they get him killed. An injury to Tommy, a sack / sack and fumble are very real possibilities is a RB blows his assignment because he isn't familiar enough with the playbook and audibles.

Folston himself admitted he was confused when he got in a couple weeks ago and Tommy audibled a play. Easily could happen and cost us in a tight game.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Even that looks hard as sh*t.

Yep. Might have to resort to three non-AQ teams and ditch a mid-level AQ team (Connecticut in that scenario). Or worse, ditch Michigan State.

1- vs. Miami (OH) (FBS chump)
2- vs. Ball State (FBS chump)
3- vs. Michigan State
4- vs. Rice (FBS chump)
5- vs. Duke (ACC #5)
6- at Florida State (ACC#1)
7- BYE
8- vs. Southern Cal
9- at Navy
10- at Pittsburgh (ACC #3)
11- at Virginia (ACC #4)
12- vs. Virginia Tech (ACC #2)
13- BYE
14- at Stanford
15- BYE

I had an idea the other day about combining Michigan State and Purdue into one week and rotating between the two, so the schedule would look like so:

year 1: vs michigan state
year 2: at purdue
year 3: at michigan state
year 4: vs purdue
repeat

But it'd be kinda tough and unheard of. But I can only imagine that Michigan State and Purdue would prefer it to nothing. They want dat cash.

 

[BeauBenken]

Guys don't worry...Andrew Hendrix is finally transferring.

 

[Ironman8]

Guys don't worry...Andrew Hendrix is finally transferring.

Would be funny if everyone got up in arms over Bryant and it was Mahone transferring.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yep. Might have to resort to three non-AQ teams and ditch a mid-level AQ team (Connecticut in that scenario).

1- vs. Miami (OH) (FBS chump)
2- vs. Ball State (FBS chump)
3- vs. Michigan State
4- vs. Rice (FBS chump)
5- vs. Duke (ACC #5)
6- at Florida State (ACC#1)
7- BYE
8- vs. Southern Cal
9- at Navy
10- at Pittsburgh (ACC #3)
11- at Virginia (ACC #4)
12- vs. Virginia Tech (ACC #2)
13- BYE
14- at Stanford
15- BYE

I'm ACAMP1900... and I approve this message.

 

[irishff1014]

I guess a lot of people are ok with being on the back end of the top 25 all the time. That's fine if you do however i want this team to be an top team and that won't happen with the top players that keep transfering out and don't tell me it's all the players either there is more to this then whats being said.

 

[blueNDgold44]

Would be funny if everyone got up in arms over Bryant and it was Mahone transferring.

Been thinking that the whole time but doubt it haha

 

[Grahambo]

GAIII
Amir
Cam
Folston
Mahone

Pretty sure ND is gonna be okay at RB next year PLUS Golson will be back.

It's cool to look at the stars and rankings of players but it means absolute nothing when playing at the next level. Why people still bug out about it is beyond me especially at such a stacked position as RB. If there's any position that can afford a transfer, its RB.

One of the most important aspects of RB and arguably the most important aspect of RB is blitz pick-up. It's also the hardest aspect of the game for a young RB to pick-up. If a RB can't blitz pick-up, then he isn't worth playing no matter how talented a RB he is.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Does anyone honestly think we lose an extra game this year because Tarean and Greg carry a combined ~10 carries per game? I don't se how that's possible since every back we have has at least one major flaw and Greg and Tarean seem to be the most complete. If anything it helps us so far this year.

Who can say? One missed blitz pick-up could ruin our season. For all of Rees' faults, he's the single most indispensable player on our team.

I'm not questioning BKs approach to the situation. I just don't think dismissing this loss and saying we will be fine because he hasn't surpassed other running backs is logical or fair.

People are saying "we'll be fine" because we have talented depth at RB. It's a testament to the job Kelly's done building the program that a 5 skill player can transfer and our long-term prospects don't diminish much. The ceiling for our future offensive backfield has definitely dropped some, but probably not to the point of really hurting our prospects.

If the tone of my post didn't make it clear, I'm talking about the future--especially 2 years from now. Will we be "fine" going forward? Not IMO. I feel good about OL, QB, and WR/TE moving forward. But we don't have much quality depth at any other position, especially Defensive line and RB.

We're thin at DT and ILB. We've got both depth and talent at RB, but no one has established themselves as a reliable #1 yet. Most FBS teams would kill to have our RB depth.

Again, not blaming anyone. My point is that we aren't fine considering players like Greenberry spurned us.

Really? I'm pretty happy with the way our WR corps is developing. Three of our WRs from the 2013 class have looked great as freshman, and 2014 is shaping up to be another great class.

 

[DCIrish]

Need to follow what Stanford does in recruiting and only bring in kids who are the perfect fit for ND. The class rankings might not be as high, but you wouldn't have this many transfers every year. Also makes it easier to maintain success year after year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The fear of the unknown in this case doesn't outweigh losing an absolute freak athlete who's going to help you win big for the next 3 years. Greg was a game changer and would help us down the road and this year.

If your players need 1-2 years in the system in order to play, you are a poor teacher

Or you have 'poor' students. So in schools with low graduation rates thats on the teacher. I thought great students (or players in this case) would rise above poor teaching. It takes both a good teacher and student to make the student great. A student won't learn if not being taught properly, just as well as a if they don't have the desire to learn

Does anyone honestly think we lose an extra game this year because Tarean and Greg carry a combined ~10 carries per game? I don't se how that's possible since every back we have has at least one major flaw and Greg and Tarean seem to be the most complete. If anything it helps us so far this year.

Its possible. If they miss a blocking assignment or adjustment, we may not have a QB. If they don't get the correct audible being made they may lose yards or worse get blown up and lose the ball.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yep. Might have to resort to three non-AQ teams and ditch a mid-level AQ team (Connecticut in that scenario). Or worse, ditch Michigan State.

1- vs. Miami (OH) (FBS chump)
2- vs. Ball State (FBS chump)
3- vs. Michigan State
4- vs. Rice (FBS chump)
5- vs. Duke (ACC #5)
6- at Florida State (ACC#1)
7- BYE
8- vs. Southern Cal
9- at Navy
10- at Pittsburgh (ACC #3)
11- at Virginia (ACC #4)
12- vs. Virginia Tech (ACC #2)
13- BYE
14- at Stanford
15- BYE

why not go Baylor style?

Wofford, Buffalo, Louisiana-Monroe

playing a pussy schedule doesn't help anything either with the playoffs looming.

 

[irishff1014]

GAIII
Amir
Cam
Folston
Mahone

Pretty sure ND is gonna be okay at RB next year PLUS Golson will be back.

It's cool to look at the stars and rankings of players but it means absolute nothing when playing at the next level. Why people still bug out about it is beyond me especially at such a stacked position as RB. If there's any position that can afford a transfer, its RB.

One of the most important aspects of RB and arguably the most important aspect of RB is blitz pick-up. It's also the hardest aspect of the game for a young RB to pick-up. If a RB can't blitz pick-up, then he isn't worth playing no matter how talented a RB he is.

And that's why we are the number 77th rushing attack in college football.

 

[ACamp1900]

playing a pussy schedule doesn't help anything either with the playoffs looming.

I'm pretty sure you don't get into the playoff with four loses...


and let's be perfectly clear here... the schedule BB posted is NOT a 'pussy' schedule... it's a sane one, that is still challenging... The current year in year out schedule is completely nuts imo

 

[Ironman8]

And that's why we are the number 77th rushing attack in college football.

That or the fact that we have played the 9th hardest schedule in the country and our QB is about as mobile as a phone booth.

 

[Cackalacky]

Fvck it, we'll do it live.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm pretty sure you don't get into the playoff with four loses...

Nor does Balyor get in without going undefeated.

Like it or not, not being in a conference will make ND's chances that much harder. If we have a tough schedule and go 11-1, we have a shot. But, if we only play one or two "tough" games a year, 11-1 will never cut it.

 

[DCIrish]

And that's why we are the number 77th rushing attack in college football.

Playcalling and Kelly's style of offense is more of a problem.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

It seems to me if he were ready to play, he would be playing. Do I think it would be easier to shuffle these guys in if Golson was under center and we weren't so predictable? Definitely. But with a statue back there at QB and a line that has been problematic before Saturdays game, I don't agree with putting a kid out there based on his high school performance. Kelly and company see these guys every day. I don't believe he's not playing them more for any other reason than they haven't been quick enough to pick up the scheme. My completely uneducated opinion of course.

 

[fitz_bu47]

If this is true, and it looks to be, it sucks. I think can be a damn good rb in a year or two. That said, it happens EVERYWHERE. I played at a tiny NAIA school in Kansas and we had guys very routinely bail when they weren't playing. Like GoldenITF said above, this one looked obvious before the season to me. Not saying I knew it would be Greg, but 5 rb's none of whom are moving on next year, equals a transfer.

All that said, I hope it's not true, or he changes his mind. It just doesn't surprise me I guess.