ND Oversold on Kelly?

[irishpat183]

I love Kelly, but at what point? Maybe 15 to 20 years of this. Not three.

The reason I like Kelly is because he's recruiting well, has survived the loss of Golson to keep the offense humming, and has had success developing players on the line. Develop lineman, and the skill position guys will work themselves out.

As well as he's recruiting, we're not keeping the recruits. So what does it matter?

 

[irishpat183]

Some good thoughts there. One of the reasons ND plays so many close games is due to the opponent circling the calendar. Regardless of our record, we are and will continue to be the biggest or one of the two biggest games on all of our opponents schedule year in and year out. Those teams typically play their best game of the year against us. Purdue is a good example. I think the other reason more recently, is due to the QB. TR isn't a great fit for the O. IMO if EG was playing this year, I think our offensive output would be higher this year.

I'm not buying that. Not anymore.


Who fears us? seriously. What have we done in the last 20 years that has teams shaking in their boots?

Ahhhh...We beat Hawaii in the Surfer bowl and a horrible Miami team in Texico?


I think it has more to do with a combination of our coaching and players not living up to the IE hype.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I'm not buying that. Not anymore.


Who fears us? seriously. What have we done in the last 20 years that has teams shaking in their boots?

Ahhhh...We beat Hawaii in the Surfer bowl and a horrible Miami team in Texico?


I think it has more to do with a combination of our coaching and players not living up to the IE hype.

I don't think that it is necessarily that people are circling us on the calendar as much as there is a lot of emotion that goes into playing ND. Before, we may not have been able to match that emotion...now we do a better job.

Also, I don't understand what the argument here is...I somehow got lost through the pages of the conversation. Yes, attrition is a problem, and it has been noted at length, but that also comes with the learning curve of what works and does not work at ND.

 

[Buster Bluth]

As well as he's recruiting, we're not keeping the recruits. So what does it matter?

But we're 4-2 against the #9 schedule in the country with Tommy Rees...so what does it matter? This team has a >50% chance of being 9-2 heading into the Stanford week. That's pretty damn impressive in my book, should it happen.

One think that gets me is how Brian Kelly is going to make Tommy Rees the fourth or third leading passer in Notre Dame history, and the most accurate one too. Tommy Rees... and in basically shy of three seasons too.

 

[Kanye West]

But we're 4-2 against the #9 schedule in the country with Tommy Rees...so what does it matter? This team has a >50% chance of being 9-2 heading into the Stanford week. That's pretty damn impressive in my book, should it happen.

One think that gets me is how Brian Kelly is going to make Tommy Rees the fourth or third leading passer in Notre Dame history, and the most accurate one too. Tommy Rees... and in basically shy of three seasons too.

Considering Tommy Rees is a gunslinger without an arm this is very impressive.

 

[gkIrish]

I'm not buying that. Not anymore.


Who fears us? seriously. What have we done in the last 20 years that has teams shaking in their boots?

Ahhhh...We beat Hawaii in the Surfer bowl and a horrible Miami team in Texico?


I think it has more to do with a combination of our coaching and players not living up to the IE hype.

It's not about fear. It's about playing your best on national stage and against a storied program. Countless coaches have talked about how their game with us is the biggest in school history or the biggest game of the year. We set the record for attendance at the Big House twice. Teams play their best against us and then stink against terrible teams. They may not "fear" us but they play their best against us.

 

[koonja]

But we're 4-2 against the #9 schedule in the country with Tommy Rees...so what does it matter? This team has a >50% chance of being 9-2 heading into the Stanford week. That's pretty damn impressive in my book, should it happen.

One think that gets me is how Brian Kelly is going to make Tommy Rees the fourth or third leading passer in Notre Dame history, and the most accurate one too. Tommy Rees... and in basically shy of three seasons too.

Our QB is a poop sandwich, but I don't agree with that math.

Being VERY generous to ND's chances, let's say we're 70% likely to beat USC, 90% Air Force, 85% Navy, 75% Pitt, 70% BYU, that puts us at (.7 X .9 X .85 X .75 X .7) = ~28% to be 9-2 heading into Stanford.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Our QB is a poop sandwich

He's only shown to be a poop sandwich against really athletic defenses. Southern Cal scares me, but the rest don't.

, but I don't agree with that math.

Being VERY generous to ND's chances, let's say we're 70% likely to beat USC, 90% Air Force, 85% Navy, 75% Pitt, 70% BYU, that puts us at (.7 X .9 X .85 X .75 X .7) = ~28% to be 9-2 heading into Stanford.

I amend my statement to "if they get past Southern Cal."

 

[koonja]

He's only shown to be a poop sandwich against really athletic defenses. Southern Cal scares me, but the rest don't.



I amend my statement to "if they get past Southern Cal."

Haha, fair enough.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not buying that. Not anymore.


Who fears us? seriously. What have we done in the last 20 years that has teams shaking in their boots?

Ahhhh...We beat Hawaii in the Surfer bowl and a horrible Miami team in Texico?


I think it has more to do with a combination of our coaching and players not living up to the IE hype.

Jesus Christ Pat... did you even read the post you quoted? It says specifically "Regardless of our record, we are and will continue to be the biggest or one of the two biggest games on all of our opponents schedule year in and year out."

So your response is to talk about the team's record? I don't want to get into whether the OP makes a valid point or not, but try to respond to the premise instead of a straw man.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm not buying that. Not anymore.


Who fears us? seriously. What have we done in the last 20 years that has teams shaking in their boots?

Ahhhh...We beat Hawaii in the Surfer bowl and a horrible Miami team in Texico?

This. And who cares if they 'get up' for our game. We should be 'getting up' for those games to. If not, we need to take a long look in the mirror.

But we're 4-2 against the #9 schedule in the country with Tommy Rees...so what does it matter? This team has a >50% chance of being 9-2 heading into the Stanford week. That's pretty damn impressive in my book, should it happen.

One think that gets me is how Brian Kelly is going to make Tommy Rees the fourth or third leading passer in Notre Dame history, and the most accurate one too. Tommy Rees... and in basically shy of three seasons too.

So is that because Brian Kelly is that good, or Tommy is?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This. And who cares if they 'get up' for our game. We should be 'getting up' for those games to. If not, we need to take a long look in the mirror.

You can't be "up" for every game of the season. That's not how the human psyche works.

So is that because Brian Kelly is that good, or Tommy is?

Definitely giving credit to BK for that one.

 

[DCirishfan]

But we're 4-2 against the #9 schedule in the country with Tommy Rees...so what does it matter? This team has a >50% chance of being 9-2 heading into the Stanford week. That's pretty damn impressive in my book, should it happen.

One think that gets me is how Brian Kelly is going to make Tommy Rees the fourth or third leading passer in Notre Dame history, and the most accurate one too. Tommy Rees... and in basically shy of three seasons too.

I have to say that Tommy Rees is not very good. I find it surprising that he still would have been the back up to EG. We shall see what our record is at the end of they year. I am nervous.

 

[stlnd01]

Being VERY generous to ND's chances, let's say we're 70% likely to beat USC, 90% Air Force, 85% Navy, 75% Pitt, 70% BYU, that puts us at (.7 X .9 X .85 X .75 X .7) = ~28% to be 9-2 heading into Stanford.

We've had some close ones, but when was the last time we actually lost to a team we were clearly more talented than? South Florida in 2011? Two and a half years ago.
Obviously that's no guarantee, but we've really tightened up against the weaker teams. If we get past Southern Cal, we sure ought to be 9-2 against Stanford.

 

[blackirish]

I am not going to get into the argument of whether or not BK is a good coach or not. Here is my question to you though. At the time of his hiring, with the state that UND football was in, who would have been a better hire? I am talking legitimate candidates that A) would have taken the job and B) would be able to live with the insane boundaries that ND puts on a football coach.

And nobody would be happy if we were only as successful as Northwestern .....

Good point.

 

[phork]

We've had some close ones, but when was the last time we actually lost to a team we were clearly more talented than? South Florida in 2011? Two and a half years ago.
Obviously that's no guarantee, but we've really tightened up against the weaker teams. If we get past Southern Cal, we sure ought to be 9-2 against Stanford.

I am not discounting BYU. They had a top5 defense last year.

 

[FLDomer]

I am not discounting BYU. They had a top5 defense last year.

So did we...

 

[garyasher]

Just don't a have a QB? Yeah, and no defense. A group of 5 RB's. Terrible coaching. The overall team is sucking. Absolutely unfair focusing all on Rees.

Our problem is our offense, period. I f we didn't start the Oklahoma game out 14 points in the hole right away, we would have been tied and the game would have been very different. Our QB gives as much as he takes. Our running game just can't get going and I don't understand the logic of the play calling. Why can't we use more play action? And we haven't gotten a lot of "ND lucky bounces" so far. Take it for what it is, just my opinion.

 

[NDohio]

Our problem is our offense, period. I f we didn't start the Oklahoma game out 14 points in the hole right away, we would have been tied and the game would have been very different. Our QB gives as much as he takes. Our running game just can't get going and I don't understand the logic of the play calling. Why can't we use more play action? And we haven't gotten a lot of "ND lucky bounces" so far. Take it for what it is, just my opinion.

The answer to the bold is the underlined.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Our problem is our offense, period. I f we didn't start the Oklahoma game out 14 points in the hole right away, we would have been tied and the game would have been very different. Our QB gives as much as he takes. Our running game just can't get going and I don't understand the logic of the play calling. Why can't we use more play action? And we haven't gotten a lot of "ND lucky bounces" so far. Take it for what it is, just my opinion.

No. Our points per game are similar to last year, our points given up are much higher. So if we score the same but give up more, I doubt that would equate to just offensive problems.

 

[DCirishfan]

with our admission restrictions we are never getting anyone better than BK.

 

[Emcee77]

No. Our points per game are similar to last year, our points given up are much higher. So if we score the same but give up more, I doubt that would equate to just offensive problems.

Our problem was our offense last year, too. It was better than this, but it wasn't great.

 

[ickythump1225]

with our admission restrictions we are never getting anyone better than BK.

When some of us on here defend BK it's sometimes taken to mean we think BK is the best coach in the game. I don't think so, I think Nick Saban and Urban Meyer (though I don't think he's a much of a program builder) are clearly better coaches and Chip Kelly might be better as well.

However given all of the unique circumstances around ND I don't think we can land a better coach than BK at this point in time. Coaches like Meyer and Saban aren't going to want to be restrained by a program like ND. They don't want the admission restrictions, the answering to the administration, the inability to oversign or grey shirt, etc. At Alabama, OSU, Florida, etc. the football program is bigger than the university by and large. The football coach is answerable to no one so long as they win. That does not happen at ND.

 

[Patulski]

Well BK isn't calling plays this year. I know that a lot of people feel that BK still inputs a lot and informs Martin want to call or whatever but honestly BK doesn't strike me as an overt micromanager. I think that Kelly has delegated that authority to Martin and lets him pretty much run it the way he wants.

I don't think that Kelly is a micro manager, but I do believe he made the strategic decision not to change his spread offense philosophy even though Tommy Rees cannot run it optimally. I think this is going to yield big dividends next year when we have a deep, experienced and talented receiving corps. And as it is Kelly's philosophy to use the pass to open up the running game, I think it will yield dividends in the running game as well.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think that Kelly is a micro manager, but I do believe he made the strategic decision not to change his spread offense philosophy even though Tommy Rees cannot run it optimally. I think this is going to yield big dividends next year when we have a deep, experienced and talented receiving corps. And as it is Kelly's philosophy to use the pass to open up the running game, I think it will yield dividends in the running game as well.

I'm getting all tingly just thinking about it!

 

[ickythump1225]

I don't think that Kelly is a micro manager, but I do believe he made the strategic decision not to change his spread offense philosophy even though Tommy Rees cannot run it optimally. I think this is going to yield big dividends next year when we have a deep, experienced and talented receiving corps. And as it is Kelly's philosophy to use the pass to open up the running game, I think it will yield dividends in the running game as well.

Yeah I agree with this. I'm pretty sure BK looked at the situation and realized NC contention was not in the cards this year so he's getting all of the receivers and young running backs used to his system. Next year they'll be ready and we won't have TR throwing the ball it will be EG or MZ who are both fits for the offense.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't think that Kelly is a micro manager, but I do believe he made the strategic decision not to change his spread offense philosophy even though Tommy Rees cannot run it optimally. I think this is going to yield big dividends next year when we have a deep, experienced and talented receiving corps. And as it is Kelly's philosophy to use the pass to open up the running game, I think it will yield dividends in the running game as well.

A few weeks ago, Kelly argued that we can't run a tempo offense because of our immobile quarterback. This puzzled me, as I believe tempo is one of the ways you could actually OVERCOME having a limited pocket passer. We have athletes on the perimeter and I think it would be a fantastic wrinkle to get them the ball on tempo dinks and dunks. In that way he HAS changed his offensive philosophy and I believe it's hurting the offense.

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[wizards8507]

Yeah I agree with this. I'm pretty sure BK looked at the situation and realized NC contention was not in the cards this year so he's getting all of the receivers and young running backs used to his system. Next year they'll be ready and we won't have TR throwing the ball it will be EG or MZ who are both fits for the offense.

I feel like this has come up in every thread, but that doesn't jive with GB's lack of touches.

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[stlnd01]

I feel like this has come up in every thread, but that doesn't jive with GB's lack of touches.

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Because ultimately every thread boils down to Greg Bryant's lack of touches, or the inevitable implications thereof.

 

[JughedJones]

I feel like this has come up in every thread, but that doesn't jive with GB's lack of touches.

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It's jibe and you can bet your *** BK had a good reason why he got exactly as many touches as he did.

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12-0, National Championship Game.