Is it time to scrap the 3-4?

[Buster Bluth]

I'd use Tuitt at SDE on 1st + 2nd & short, and at DT in place of Nix on obvious passing downs with Shembo at DE and the SAM linebacker off the field for a DB.

Where does Day play into that? Hes the best pass rusher on the team right now.

 

[pkt77242]

Where does Day play into that? Hes the best pass rusher on the team right now.

In LAX's lineup Day is the other DT so he would be on the field.

 

[IrishLax]

Where does Day play into that? Hes the best pass rusher on the team right now.

The other DT. Passing down =

Ishaq-Day-Tuitt-Shembo

Jaylon-Grace/Fox-Nickel

 

[Buster Bluth]

The other DT. Passing down =

Ishaq-Day-Tuitt-Shembo

Jaylon-Grace/Fox-Nickel

And are we confident that this isn't happening? I totally agree with this, but I think I did see Nix come off the field. And Ishaq come on.

 

[IrishLax]

And are we confident that this isn't happening? I totally agree with this, but I think I did see Nix come off the field. And Ishaq come on.

Yes, it already happens some. They also have Ishaq at ILB sometimes and already do lots of different things. The point was more about getting consistently away from having 2 ILBs on the field and towards a 4-3... someone just asked what to do with Tuitt and I was responding I'd have him inside on passing downs and outside at SDE in the base 4-3 so you could have Shembo play SAM.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And I'm mostly not convinced that the DL is even the problem, nor the pass rush. The DL was in the backfield all night against Michigan, Gardner evaded them with his athleticism. The DL didn't even get a chance against Purdue because they were rolling the pocket and getting the ball out quickly. Teams know what's coming at them, Diaco is being too predictable/conservative, and coaches are game planning against it. The good news is that its tough to do the gimmicks all game, all three games showed that in my opinion. I think Diaco knows it too and reluctant to change. His bend but don't break is all about percentages, I guess.

To me, I'm wondering why Shumate can't come down and get in the box to cover these RBs and TEs coming into the flats. He was a great nickel last season, why can't he do it again?

 

[IrishLax]

And I'm mostly not convinced that the DL is even the problem, nor the pass rush. The DL was in the backfield all night against Michigan, Gardner evaded them with his athleticism. The DL didn't even get a chance against Purdue because they were rolling the pocket and getting the ball out quickly. Teams know what's coming at them, Diaco is being too predictable/conservative, and coaches are game planning against it. The good news is that its tough to do the gimmicks all game, all three games showed that in my opinion. I think Diaco knows it too and reluctant to change. His bend but don't break is all about percentages, I guess.

To me, I'm wondering why Shumate can't come down and get in the box to cover these RBs and TEs coming into the flats. He was a great nickel last season, why can't he do it again?

No, the whole talk about 4-3 has nothing to do with the DL. It has to do with the ILBs. And minimizing how much they suck and that sucking hurts the team.

 

[Domer4ever]

I 'd just like to question the premise that Tuitt isn't effective as a pass rusher this year. Assuming we're all watching the same games, he's been doing a hell of a job pushing one or two OL backwards without breaking contain. The difference IMO is that while Tuitt has exceptional speed for a DL, especially a 300+ lb-er, all 3 qb's we've played this year have been mobile, and no 300 lb DL is catching a QB whom is both capable and accoustomed to running. I can remember at least 2 plays against Michigan when Tuitt had a free run at Gardner without breaking contain but couldn't catch him and the secondary broke down.

I think Tuitt looks a step slow this year after putting on the weight and is just not explosive enough to get the pressure on QB's like we have become accustomed to seeing from him. There have been times he has gotten some push, but these tackles are doing a good job of handling him at this point. I think if you threw him inside as a three technique in a 4-3 next to Nix he is going to wreck havoc. He has the ability to be a Kevin Williams type player and by kicking him inside it allows guys like Ishaq and Shembo more pass rushing opportunities at DE. With that said, I also would not have a problem using him like LAX suggested in his post.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Switching to a 4-3 might actually help address some of Diaco's "systemic rigidity" as well. One of its best features is simplicity, as it emphasizes single-gap responsibility for the DL. If we had both Ishaq and Prince coming off the edges on most plays with simplified schematic responsibility, our front-7 could turn the corner from "narrowly missing big plays" to "incredibly disruptive".

 

[EddytoNow]

IMHO the real problem is the "bend don't break philosophy". It is totally dependent on the other team making a mistake as they march up and down the field. Gardner, with the exception of the desperation toss that was intercepted by Tuitt in the end zone, didn't make any mistakes and Michigan was able to march up and down the field. Henry was consistently hitting passes in front of our defense. He made one mistake that allowed Jackson to get a pick six that was the deciding factor in the game. Without that mistake we may have lost to Purdue.

This concept of letting the other team march up and down the field while we wait for a turnover or a drive killing penalty allows the other team to decide the outcome of the game. Are we really better off preventing one or two big plays while we let the other team march up and down the field eating up the clock and having to self-destruct to keep from scoring? Shouldn't our defense be dictating what the other team does?

We stop the running attack and then allow the opposition to dink and dunk us down the field by being too passive in pass coverage. Are we taking the aggressiveness out of our defensive mindset by playing the pass so non-aggressively?

 

[Domer4ever]

Switching to a 4-3 might actually help address some of Diaco's "systemic rigidity" as well. One of its best features is simplicity, as it emphasizes single-gap responsibility for the DL. If we had both Ishaq and Prince coming off the edges on most plays with simplified schematic responsibility, our front-7 could turn the corner from "narrowly missing big plays" to "incredibly disruptive".

Thank you! This is exactly what I'm saying and why I broached the topic in the first place. Right now ND ranks tied for 56th nationally in overall defense and something needs to change. I think moving to a base 4-3 is the best option at this point and really fit's our personnel well by getting more of guys like Ishaq Williams on the field more and putting them in positions to do what they do best.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

IMHO the real problem is the "bend don't break philosophy". It is totally dependent on the other team making a mistake as they march up and down the field. Gardner, with the exception of the desperation toss that was intercepted by Tuitt in the end zone, didn't make any mistakes and Michigan was able to march up and down the field. Henry was consistently hitting passes in front of our defense. He made one mistake that allowed Jackson to get a pick six that was the deciding factor in the game. Without that mistake we may have lost to Purdue.

We haven't been playing "bend don't break" this year; at least not the same kind as last year. The '12 team played lots of Cover 2 Zone, which gave up cheap yards in the flats, but forced our opponents to execute perfectly in order to maintain long drives. As our stats last year can attest, it worked very well, especially in the redzone.

But we don't have Te'o locking down everything between hash marks anymore, and Darlo Calabrox + Grace can't fill his shoes adequately. So Diaco is blitzing and using more man-coverage to protect his ILBs against the pass, but they're still getting abused by mobile QBs throwing quick routes.

Are we really better off preventing one or two big plays while we let the other team march up and down the field eating up the clock and having to self-destruct to keep from scoring?

Yes. Explosive plays are very strongly correlated to wins. Thus, the focus on preventing them.

Shouldn't our defense be dictating what the other team does?

We're trying, and if Diaco can simplify things a bit and let our superior athleticism take over, our DL should be able to turn the corner from "narrowly missing big plays" to "incredibly disruptive in the backfield".

We stop the running attack and then allow the opposition to dink and dunk us down the field by being too passive in pass coverage. Are we taking the aggressiveness out of our defensive mindset by playing the pass so non-aggressively?

We've been exceptionally aggressive this year (at least compared to '12). We're just not very good at it yet. Hopefully the coaching staff irons out the wrinkles before we lose another game.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think the broader question isn't what it should be for one year, but whether or not the 3-4 is a good fit overall for ND.

Last year was very successful, but think about what we had. We had an NFL draft pick leading our safeties, a 1st round ILB and two future first rounders on the DL.

Looking forward, we don't have that type of talent in the roster or in the pipeline. We continue to struggle to recruit top level NG's and seemingly whiff on top end ILB's.

My hunch is that Kelly and staff believed they would be strong enough up front this year to get by while they still had Nix. They hoped we would get enough pressure to alleviate coverage weaknesses. Problem is, it doesn't appear to be working quite as well as they hoped. Now, it is too late to convert fully over to a 4-3 in the middle of the year.

After weighing all of that, I can see why they would continue with the 3-4 this year, but I agree with everyone else that the 4-3 is probably better suited for 2013 and is certainly better suited for 2014.

 

[dre1919]

It's always a good time to scrap the 3-4. Never been a fan.

 

[Luckylucci]

We haven't been playing "bend don't break" this year; at least not the same kind as last year. The '12 team played lots of Cover 2 Zone, which gave up cheap yards in the flats, but forced our opponents to execute perfectly in order to maintain long drives. As our stats last year can attest, it worked very well, especially in the redzone.

But we don't have Te'o locking down everything between hash marks anymore, and Darlo Calabrox + Grace can't fill his shoes adequately. So Diaco is blitzing and using more man-coverage to protect his ILBs against the pass, but they're still getting abused by mobile QBs throwing quick routes.



Yes. Explosive plays are very strongly correlated to wins. Thus, the focus on preventing them.



We're trying, and if Diaco can simplify things a bit and let our superior athleticism take over, our DL should be able to turn the corner from "narrowly missing big plays" to "incredibly disruptive in the backfield".



We've been exceptionally aggressive this year (at least compared to '12). We're just not very good at it yet. Hopefully the coaching staff figures it out before we lose another game.

Agreed, and I have been one of the biggest advocates in favor of this. However, if you bring them and they don't get to the QB something has to give.

 

[Domer4ever]

I think the broader question isn't what it should be for one year, but whether or not the 3-4 is a good fit overall for ND.

Last year was very successful, but think about what we had. We had an NFL draft pick leading our safeties, a 1st round ILB and two future first rounders on the DL.

Looking forward, we don't have that type of talent in the roster or in the pipeline. We continue to struggle to recruit top level NG's and seemingly whiff on top end ILB's.

My hunch is that Kelly and staff believed they would be strong enough up front this year to get by while they still had Nix. They hoped we would get enough pressure to alleviate coverage weaknesses. Problem is, it doesn't appear to be working quite as well as they hoped. Now, it is too late to convert fully over to a 4-3 in the middle of the year.

After weighing all of that, I can see why they would continue with the 3-4 this year, but I agree with everyone else that the 4-3 is probably better suited for 2013 and is certainly better suited for 2014.

I don't think it's too late to change, especially since what we are doing now isn't working anyway and we have run some 4-3 before. Like Whiskey stated, I think it simplifies things and allows us to do more things from a personnel standpoint that really favors the players we have on the roster.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I don't think it's too late to change, especially since what we are doing now isn't working anyway and we have run some 4-3 before. Like Whiskey stated, I think it simplifies things and allows us to do more things from a personnel standpoint that really favors where we are as a roster.

I think you are over simplifying the transition.

While the scheme isn't as complicated, you are basically telling all the starters forget about the 3-4 principles they have had drilled in their heads since arriving at ND and to move forward with a new scheme. Personally, I don't buy it and think it would be a narrow decision to move forward with a full conversion now.

Flip side, if you want to install more packages on the 4-3 incrementally throughout the year, I see no issues with that.

 

[Domer4ever]

I think you are over simplifying the transition.

While the scheme isn't as complicated, you are basically telling all the starters forget about the 3-4 principles they have had drilled in their heads since arriving at ND and to move forward with a new scheme. Personally, I don't buy it and think it would be a narrow decision to move forward with a full conversion now.

Flip side, if you want to install more packages on the 4-3 incrementally throughout the year, I see no issues with that.

Well they have had to be flexible because we have run 4-3 in the past and still do in certain situations now. It's not like the players would be doing something completely foreign to them, but I do get the concern.

 

[NDWorld247]

I don't think scheme (3-4 vs. 4-3) is the problem. Personally, as a coach, I find the 3-4 creates more confusion for the offense and is harder to block up front. My team switched to a 3-4 this year and I love it, although I will admit that I think our blitz's between the tackles were more effective in a 4-3, but that's really the only positive I'd give to the 4-3 vs. 3-4 based on my experience.

So, what's the problem with ND's defense? Let's start by illustrating what's NOT the problem: Run defense vs. RBs.

RB production vs. ND defense
Temple: 16 rush for 55 yards (3.44 ypc)
Michigan: 25 rush for 85 yards (3.4 ypc)
Purdue: 17 rush for 36 yards (2.18 ypc)

The DL is absolutely eating RBs up in the run game. These stats are comparable to last year's defense through 3 games.

So, what's left?

1. Run defense vs. Mobile QB
2. Pass coverage
3. Tackling

1. Run defense vs. Mobile QB

Temple: 12 rush for 65 yards (5.42 ypc)
Michigan: 13 rush for 82 yards (6.31 ypc)
Purdue: 4 rush for 2 yards (0.5 ypc)

There's a difference between a designed run and a QB scrambling to gain yards with his legs. I don't have stats to back this up, but my guess would be most of these QB yards are a result of a pass play breaking down and the opposing QB (Temple and Michigan) using their legs to make something out of nothing while the designed run production mirrors the YPC we give up to RBs.

I don't think the 3-4 or 4-3 is better suited than the other to handle a QB scrambling for yards. In either defense, you're most likely rushing 4 or 5 defenders and containing the QB is a matter of technique vs. scheme. The responsibility of the rushers is basically the same in either defense. I think your ability to defend the QB run has more to do with the pass coverage (man vs. zone) than base defense.

2. Pass coverage

Again, the pass coverage doesn't really change from a 4-3 to 3-4. Most 3-4 defenses are bringing four defenders on every play. The advantage of the 3-4 is that the offense isn't supposed to know where that 4th defender is coming from. I think ND telegraphs this more than most 3-4 defenses do, but I can't say that with certainty due to limited knowledge of other college 3-4 defenses.

What's the difference between this year and last year as it relates to pass coverage? I'd say it's the amount of man coverage we're running. Again, that's not a 4-3 vs. 3-4 issue.

I think the increase in man coverage has exposed our ILBs more than anything and has contributed to allowing rushing yards to QBs when pass plays break down (too many guys with their backs to the LOS). The DBs are doing well in man. Have they really been burned in three games? Off the top of my head, no.

Could we improve our man pass coverage by playing more nickel and one less ILB? Sure, but again, that's not a 3-4 vs. 4-3 issue.

3. Tackling

Again, not a 3-4 vs. 4-3 issue. I can think of two plays (Gallon's first TD and Purdue's 2nd TD) where tackling was the problem, not scheme or coverage. I thought last year's "bend but don't break" defense worked so well because we tackled well as a team. This was likely the result of playing so much zone coverage and keeping everything in front of the defense. We simply have to do a better job of tackling, which is a claim 80+% of football teams across the country (all levels) are probably preaching three weeks into the season.

 

[Emcee77]

NDWorld, reps for this. This reminds me of a couple springs ago when everyone in the ND media was freaking out trying to understand whether RBs and Z WRs are really the same thing and Chuck Martin was saying that the coaches don't even really think about categorizing the players ... they just try to get the playmakers out there in a place where they can make plays. This might be similar in a don't-think-too-hard-about-it kind of way ... you can call a guy a DE or a LB or whatever, but his job doesn't necessarily change a whole hell of a lot.

 

[chubler]

IMHO the real problem is the "bend don't break philosophy". It is totally dependent on the other team making a mistake as they march up and down the field. Gardner, with the exception of the desperation toss that was intercepted by Tuitt in the end zone, didn't make any mistakes and Michigan was able to march up and down the field. Henry was consistently hitting passes in front of our defense. He made one mistake that allowed Jackson to get a pick six that was the deciding factor in the game. Without that mistake we may have lost to Purdue.

This concept of letting the other team march up and down the field while we wait for a turnover or a drive killing penalty allows the other team to decide the outcome of the game. Are we really better off preventing one or two big plays while we let the other team march up and down the field eating up the clock and having to self-destruct to keep from scoring? Shouldn't our defense be dictating what the other team does?

We stop the running attack and then allow the opposition to dink and dunk us down the field by being too passive in pass coverage. Are we taking the aggressiveness out of our defensive mindset by playing the pass so non-aggressively?

If we're stopping the run and taking away the vertical passing game, aren't we dictating what the other team does? It's a lot harder to dink and dunk down the field, IMO, than pretty much any other way you could choose to move the ball consistently. Especially because your defensive playmakers can (theoretically) stick guys behind the line on screens, jump predictable screen passes for an easy pick-6, or simply force a punt by not allowing large dinks.

If the man coverage was better, we'd see a lot of these things resolved IMO.

 

[rikkitikki08]

It's always a good time to scrap the 3-4. Never been a fan.

Scrap the defense who was one of the best in the country the year before? I get ND defense isn't playing exceptionally well right now but that's a ridiculous statement, they will figure things out. We have to remember these kids are still amateur athletes, let the coaches coach them up

 

[TheTurningPoint]

I got to disagree with the 4-3. Can they run it sure, but i think itd be less successful than what they are doing now. The things that ND isnt doing now that has led to missed plays is basics.

1. Tackling
2. Being in the right spot
3. Presnap reads

Temple Jarrett Grace dropped 7 yards into coverage on a read play. QB kept it and ran into Graces gap for 10-15 yards. Grace hasnt done since. Jeremy Gallon running for 70 yards breaking 5 tackles. Purdue killing ND on screen plays.

These things are correctable. Tackling. They just got to get into the mindset that they are going to take someone out. Who the hell cares if you get ejected. Cant play scared. SEC defense are out for blood. Sure Bama gave up 42 but it wasnt for a lack of tackling or being physical. I am concerned with Farley. He hasnt taken a step forward yet. I cant remember if I posted this on here or not, but he was the weak link in the defense last year and Bamas game planned evolved around Farley. Can he do it? Hell yeah. But its all a mentality, you cant get trucked by a 190lb RB on the second play of the game.

Grace/Shumate/Collinsworth/Jaylon/Day/Luke/Councell are all in roles they werent in last year. Collinsworth and Shumate have technically never lined up at Safety in a live game before this year. (nickelback) You cannot count Farley as a sophmore to be a Vet back there. Grace never really got a shot last year to get good mins. He is learning and improving by large margins each week. Jaylon/Luke were obviously in high school last year, and clearly have a lot of learn presnap, but they are doing a lot of good out there. Councell with the emergence of Spond in 2012 never got the mins most expected him to get. Day was in the rotation last year, but never got minutes like this. Its a huge mental jump and physical jump going from 10-15 plays to 40-50 plays.

They MUST get focused bc in the 2nd half you saw that the light was turning on. ND should have beat Purdue by about 4 TDs on paper and the 1st half was a HUGE concern, dont think Im not realizing that. But they took a BIG step forward in the 2nd half.

Presnap just comes with experience. Lining up is partially coaching, but at the sametime there isnt a way to prepare for all personnel/formations you are going to see all game.

Changing the scheme would be kill the steps they have taken this year. And they dont have the personnel to run a 4-3. Sure on paper you can make it work with diff lineups, but what happens when someone goes down with an injury in the front 7...you're back to square 1. They got the depth and getting the experience to run a 3-4. The biggest thing is Diaco and Co need to keep coaching them up, keep running good looks in practice in their man and blitz schemes.

 

[BobD]

We're being more aggressive, but can't contain a damned thing.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I got to disagree with the 4-3. Can they run it sure, but i think itd be less successful than what they are doing now. The things that ND isnt doing now that has led to missed plays is basics.

1. Tackling
2. Being in the right spot
3. Presnap reads

Temple Jarrett Grace dropped 7 yards into coverage on a read play. QB kept it and ran into Graces gap for 10-15 yards. Grace hasnt done since. Jeremy Gallon running for 70 yards breaking 5 tackles. Purdue killing ND on screen plays.

These things are correctable. Tackling. They just got to get into the mindset that they are going to take someone out. Who the hell cares if you get ejected. Cant play scared. SEC defense are out for blood. Sure Bama gave up 42 but it wasnt for a lack of tackling or being physical. I am concerned with Farley. He hasnt taken a step forward yet. I cant remember if I posted this on here or not, but he was the weak link in the defense last year and Bamas game planned evolved around Farley. Can he do it? Hell yeah. But its all a mentality, you cant get trucked by a 190lb RB on the second play of the game.

Grace/Shumate/Collinsworth/Jaylon/Day/Luke/Councell are all in roles they werent in last year. Collinsworth and Shumate have technically never lined up at Safety in a live game before this year. (nickelback) You cannot count Farley as a sophmore to be a Vet back there. Grace never really got a shot last year to get good mins. He is learning and improving by large margins each week. Jaylon/Luke were obviously in high school last year, and clearly have a lot of learn presnap, but they are doing a lot of good out there. Councell with the emergence of Spond in 2012 never got the mins most expected him to get. Day was in the rotation last year, but never got minutes like this. Its a huge mental jump and physical jump going from 10-15 plays to 40-50 plays.

They MUST get focused bc in the 2nd half you saw that the light was turning on. ND should have beat Purdue by about 4 TDs on paper and the 1st half was a HUGE concern, dont think Im not realizing that. But they took a BIG step forward in the 2nd half.

Presnap just comes with experience. Lining up is partially coaching, but at the sametime there isnt a way to prepare for all personnel/formations you are going to see all game.

Changing the scheme would be kill the steps they have taken this year. And they dont have the personnel to run a 4-3. Sure on paper you can make it work with diff lineups, but what happens when someone goes down with an injury in the front 7...you're back to square 1. They got the depth and getting the experience to run a 3-4. The biggest thing is Diaco and Co need to keep coaching them up, keep running good looks in practice in their man and blitz schemes.

The only acceptable response after three mediocre games is to call for a complete overhaul of the defense and to fire the strength and conditioning coach!

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

I got to disagree with the 4-3. Can they run it sure, but i think itd be less successful than what they are doing now. The things that ND isnt doing now that has led to missed plays is basics.

1. Tackling
2. Being in the right spot
3. Presnap reads

Temple Jarrett Grace dropped 7 yards into coverage on a read play. QB kept it and ran into Graces gap for 10-15 yards. Grace hasnt done since. Jeremy Gallon running for 70 yards breaking 5 tackles. Purdue killing ND on screen plays.

These things are correctable. Tackling. They just got to get into the mindset that they are going to take someone out. Who the hell cares if you get ejected. Cant play scared. SEC defense are out for blood. Sure Bama gave up 42 but it wasnt for a lack of tackling or being physical. I am concerned with Farley. He hasnt taken a step forward yet. I cant remember if I posted this on here or not, but he was the weak link in the defense last year and Bamas game planned evolved around Farley. Can he do it? Hell yeah. But its all a mentality, you cant get trucked by a 190lb RB on the second play of the game.

Grace/Shumate/Collinsworth/Jaylon/Day/Luke/Councell are all in roles they werent in last year. Collinsworth and Shumate have technically never lined up at Safety in a live game before this year. (nickelback) You cannot count Farley as a sophmore to be a Vet back there. Grace never really got a shot last year to get good mins. He is learning and improving by large margins each week. Jaylon/Luke were obviously in high school last year, and clearly have a lot of learn presnap, but they are doing a lot of good out there. Councell with the emergence of Spond in 2012 never got the mins most expected him to get. Day was in the rotation last year, but never got minutes like this. Its a huge mental jump and physical jump going from 10-15 plays to 40-50 plays.

They MUST get focused bc in the 2nd half you saw that the light was turning on. ND should have beat Purdue by about 4 TDs on paper and the 1st half was a HUGE concern, dont think Im not realizing that. But they took a BIG step forward in the 2nd half.

Presnap just comes with experience. Lining up is partially coaching, but at the sametime there isnt a way to prepare for all personnel/formations you are going to see all game.

Changing the scheme would be kill the steps they have taken this year. And they dont have the personnel to run a 4-3. Sure on paper you can make it work with diff lineups, but what happens when someone goes down with an injury in the front 7...you're back to square 1. They got the depth and getting the experience to run a 3-4. The biggest thing is Diaco and Co need to keep coaching them up, keep running good looks in practice in their man and blitz schemes.

Reps. TP, Do you think play-calling on offense could be more aggressive and less predictable?

 

[Domer4ever]

I got to disagree with the 4-3. Can they run it sure, but i think itd be less successful than what they are doing now. The things that ND isnt doing now that has led to missed plays is basics.

1. Tackling
2. Being in the right spot
3. Presnap reads

Temple Jarrett Grace dropped 7 yards into coverage on a read play. QB kept it and ran into Graces gap for 10-15 yards. Grace hasnt done since. Jeremy Gallon running for 70 yards breaking 5 tackles. Purdue killing ND on screen plays.

These things are correctable. Tackling. They just got to get into the mindset that they are going to take someone out. Who the hell cares if you get ejected. Cant play scared. SEC defense are out for blood. Sure Bama gave up 42 but it wasnt for a lack of tackling or being physical. I am concerned with Farley. He hasnt taken a step forward yet. I cant remember if I posted this on here or not, but he was the weak link in the defense last year and Bamas game planned evolved around Farley. Can he do it? Hell yeah. But its all a mentality, you cant get trucked by a 190lb RB on the second play of the game.

Grace/Shumate/Collinsworth/Jaylon/Day/Luke/Councell are all in roles they werent in last year. Collinsworth and Shumate have technically never lined up at Safety in a live game before this year. (nickelback) You cannot count Farley as a sophmore to be a Vet back there. Grace never really got a shot last year to get good mins. He is learning and improving by large margins each week. Jaylon/Luke were obviously in high school last year, and clearly have a lot of learn presnap, but they are doing a lot of good out there. Councell with the emergence of Spond in 2012 never got the mins most expected him to get. Day was in the rotation last year, but never got minutes like this. Its a huge mental jump and physical jump going from 10-15 plays to 40-50 plays.

They MUST get focused bc in the 2nd half you saw that the light was turning on. ND should have beat Purdue by about 4 TDs on paper and the 1st half was a HUGE concern, dont think Im not realizing that. But they took a BIG step forward in the 2nd half.

Presnap just comes with experience. Lining up is partially coaching, but at the sametime there isnt a way to prepare for all personnel/formations you are going to see all game.

Changing the scheme would be kill the steps they have taken this year. And they dont have the personnel to run a 4-3. Sure on paper you can make it work with diff lineups, but what happens when someone goes down with an injury in the front 7...you're back to square 1. They got the depth and getting the experience to run a 3-4. The biggest thing is Diaco and Co need to keep coaching them up, keep running good looks in practice in their man and blitz schemes.

I appreciate the insight TP, but this team is 56th in the nation in total defense so what they are doing is not working and that includes a whole laundry list of things. The biggest advantage to switching to a 4-3 in my opinion is this:

The weak link is the linebackers/secondary and right now this team is not getting any pressure from the 34 alignment which is leaving our back end getting exposed in coverage. The exotic blitz packages that the 34 is supposed to present are just not working. Guy's are doing too much thinking about coverage responsibilities with the way teams are attacking us with mismatches and not getting after the QB. Right now it looks like a shell shocked, undisciplined group out there. Whiskey and LAX hit on it earlier, the 43 simplifies gap responsibility and eliminates one of the problem ILB positions for an additional down lineman. To me that is a big win-win especially when it put's Ishaq Williams on the field with his hand in the dirt. The extra down lineman in the four man front also covers the LB unit to flow more freely to the football instead of having to shed blockers getting to that second level. I think Diaco needs to simplify things because there is just too much bad going on out there right now and teams have figured out how to attack this defense. It's time to adjust or I think we will continue to see the struggles we have seen thus far.

 

[kmoose]

The weak link is the linebackers/secondary and right now this team is not getting any pressure from the 34 alignment which is leaving our back end getting exposed in coverage. The exotic blitz packages that the 34 is supposed to present are just not working. Guy's are doing too much thinking about coverage responsibilities with the way teams are attacking us with mismatches and not getting after the QB. Right now it looks like a shell shocked, undisciplined group out there. Whiskey and LAX hit on it earlier, the 43 simplifies gap responsibility and eliminates one of the problem ILB positions for an additional down lineman. To me that is a big win-win especially when it put's Ishaq Williams on the field with his hand in the dirt. The extra down lineman in the four man front also covers the LB unit to flow more freely to the football instead of having to shed blockers getting to that second level. I think Diaco needs to simplify things because there is just too much bad going on out there right now and teams have figured out how to attack this defense. It's time to adjust or I think we will continue to see the struggles we have seen thus far.

If we were running a 4-3 right now, teams would likely be running right at Jaylon Smith, and putting HUGE pressure on him to make plays as a true freshman. He wouldn't be getting much, if any, help from the inside because we don't have a stud MLB. And the corners aren't exactly laying the wood to runners that make it into the second and third level. Instead of giving up big pass plays, we'd probably be giving up 50-60 yard runs with regularity.

 

[IrishLion]

I appreciate the insight TP, but this team is 56th in the nation in total defense so what they are doing is not working and that includes a whole laundry list of things. The biggest advantage to switching to a 4-3 in my opinion is this:

The weak link is the linebackers/secondary and right now this team is not getting any pressure from the 34 alignment which is leaving our back end getting exposed in coverage. The exotic blitz packages that the 34 is supposed to present are just not working. Guy's are doing too much thinking about coverage responsibilities with the way teams are attacking us with mismatches and not getting after the QB. Right now it looks like a shell shocked, undisciplined group out there. Whiskey and LAX hit on it earlier, the 43 simplifies gap responsibility and eliminates one of the problem ILB positions for an additional down lineman. To me that is a big win-win especially when it put's Ishaq Williams on the field with his hand in the dirt. The extra down lineman in the four man front also covers the LB unit to flow more freely to the football instead of having to shed blockers getting to that second level. I think Diaco needs to simplify things because there is just too much bad going on out there right now and teams have figured out how to attack this defense. It's time to adjust or I think we will continue to see the struggles we have seen thus far.

I don't think this fits your case for a 4-3 though... Generally, the pass rush is basically a 4-3 anyway (as Buster has mentioned). Usually, it's Prince or Ishaq putting their hand on the ground and basically becoming a DE. The 3-4/4-3 debate does not apply on passing downs/pressuring the passer.

 

[Domer4ever]

If we were running a 4-3 right now, teams would likely be running right at Jaylon Smith, and putting HUGE pressure on him to make plays as a true freshman. He wouldn't be getting much, if any, help from the inside because we don't have a stud MLB. And the corners aren't exactly laying the wood to runners that make it into the second and third level. Instead of giving up big pass plays, we'd probably be giving up 50-60 yard runs with regularity.

Why would they be running right at him? I don't think moving to a true WILL puts any more pressure on Jaylon than what he is currently under playing Dog. I think Grace is likely better playing behind a more loaded defensive front, so maybe he blossoms behind it?