phork
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Counter my point then. If you can't see this then I can't help you.
All Things SkunkBear
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Counter my point then. If you can't see this then I can't help you.
TomHaverford
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Da'Shawn Hand and Malik McDowell are extremely important pieces that this staff must land in order for 2014 to be a recruiting success.
Watching the game again yesterday, Michigan needs pass rushers on the edges very badly.
Frank Clark is a freakish athlete, but he doesn't seem to know how to play under control or use his hands to get off blocks. He has two moves when rushing the passer, that's it, and when he gets into the backfield he'll overrun plays and put himself out of position.
Brennen Beyer is a decent role player who can bring some pass rush at times, but he's not a guy you want out there as a starter. Mario Ojemudia is too small still I think, he's only 244 pounds and he gets handled too easily if he doesn't beat his guy with quickness off the snap. I'm interested to see if they give Taco Charlton more minutes at some point this year, he's 6-6, 268, more of what you'd expect a DE to look like. Da'Shawn Hand is 6-4, 255 in high school, he'll be in the 260's as a true freshman pretty easily and would get on the field right away. He's an absolute must get, and he could contribute to the defense right away.
Heitzman, Wormley, and Godin are strong-side ends, none of them really show athletic pass rush ability like McDowell. Those guys are more "occupy blockers" and maintain their gaps. McDowell is a completely different type of athlete than those strong-side ends, he is a must get as well.
McDowell by the way transferred to Southfield and the competition level he's facing now is much better. He was playing against the worst competition in the state, now his competition is as good as it gets in the state and he's dominating more than ever now that he's not the only guy on the team and teams can't triple team him and run away from him because he's got Lawrence Marshall on the other end of him. It will be a huge blow if Brady Hoke isn't able to sign McDowell.
2014 boils down to those two guys, if they miss on both the 2014 class is a wash IMO.
Watching the game again yesterday, Michigan needs pass rushers on the edges very badly.
Frank Clark is a freakish athlete, but he doesn't seem to know how to play under control or use his hands to get off blocks. He has two moves when rushing the passer, that's it, and when he gets into the backfield he'll overrun plays and put himself out of position.
Brennen Beyer is a decent role player who can bring some pass rush at times, but he's not a guy you want out there as a starter. Mario Ojemudia is too small still I think, he's only 244 pounds and he gets handled too easily if he doesn't beat his guy with quickness off the snap. I'm interested to see if they give Taco Charlton more minutes at some point this year, he's 6-6, 268, more of what you'd expect a DE to look like. Da'Shawn Hand is 6-4, 255 in high school, he'll be in the 260's as a true freshman pretty easily and would get on the field right away. He's an absolute must get, and he could contribute to the defense right away.
Heitzman, Wormley, and Godin are strong-side ends, none of them really show athletic pass rush ability like McDowell. Those guys are more "occupy blockers" and maintain their gaps. McDowell is a completely different type of athlete than those strong-side ends, he is a must get as well.
McDowell by the way transferred to Southfield and the competition level he's facing now is much better. He was playing against the worst competition in the state, now his competition is as good as it gets in the state and he's dominating more than ever now that he's not the only guy on the team and teams can't triple team him and run away from him because he's got Lawrence Marshall on the other end of him. It will be a huge blow if Brady Hoke isn't able to sign McDowell.
2014 boils down to those two guys, if they miss on both the 2014 class is a wash IMO.
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Fine, I'll counter-point for GITF and save him some time.
1. So what if they get "credit" for a cream puff schedule? that's irrelevant. Unless they win it all this year (very unlikely, but possible) they're going to have to go through the 4 team playoff. Do you honestly think they have the talent right now to beat upper echelon SEC teams multiple time much less a Clemson or Oregon?
2. Have they rebuilt faster? They're basically doing what we did last year with Weis players + a couple blue-chip BK guys. What dynamic QB has Hoke signed? Shane Morris? They've built an OK team on defense (our "meh" O still moved it on them pretty darn easily even after falling behind) with serious question marks on O.
3. You're not confident Golson will be back? Counter-point: there is every indication he's coming back.
4. Yeah, there might be some rust. The odds of him being worse than 2012 are basically zero though.
5. Won't be able to compete with them? Despite a horrible 1st half in every facet we were a play away in the 4th quarter to having the ball driving for the go-ahead score. And we were a strange INT in the endzone away from us losing by 3-4 points. That's not competing? Get the f*ck out of here.
Who'saWildManNow
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Who'saWildManNow
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You didn't happen to listen to Bill Burr's Labor Day podcast did you?? He went on about this phrase for bout 20 minutes.. hysterical.
NDohio
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Will they make it to the NCG in Brady's third year? We will see, I doubt it.
Everything points to him coming back. Everything.
So spending 60 - 90 days with an elite QB guru will not make EG a more fundamentally sound player next year?
Next year would be difficult, I will give you that. But after that I cannot agree. Recruiting for this current class is still very early. Our Frosh are really strong and I am confident next years class will fill some holes.
From reading up on their depth chart, I'd guess this is the year they need to "go for it", not next year. They have two elite senior tackles, both likely playing in the NFL next year. Plus while Gardner has another year of eligibility, with the read option now being acceptable in the NFL, it'd be a surprise if he returned (unless he falls off a cliff, in which case M can't win next year anyway).
I just don't see it for them in the near future. Maybe in a few years when the RichRod guys are all gone, and they've just assembled SEC level line talent they can do it with a pretty "meh" guy in Morris, but they need to keep recruiting like nuts, and actually have that line depth play well.
I just don't see it for them in the near future. Maybe in a few years when the RichRod guys are all gone, and they've just assembled SEC level line talent they can do it with a pretty "meh" guy in Morris, but they need to keep recruiting like nuts, and actually have that line depth play well.
I don't read too much into the Lewan thing. That's a freak occurrence, and while it's happened before with QBs (Leinart, Bradford, Barkley), in two of those cases it didn't work out, and in the the third (Bradford), he was a serious risk to drop as well. Guys sometimes stay, but I don't think it's anything program specific.
If Gardner has a big year and plays himself into the first round, then it's a good bet he's gone, especially knowing both his tackles are gone as well.
TomHaverford
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I think two elite tackles is pushing it. Lewan? Absolutely. Schofield? I think he's pretty good, could potentially be a 6th, maybe 7th round pick. Might push for All-Conference 2nd team, but he is definitely not elite though. They aren't replacing a talent like Lewan, just ain't happening. Schofield though? I guess I just don't see that as a monumental loss, considering a RS Soph. Erik Magnunson (who was a 4*, top 100 recruit to all the sites) will be taking that spot. A RS Soph. Ben Braden will have the unenviable task of replacing Lewan at LT. Coaches are very high on Braden though, and he's got the size they are looking for at 6-6, 322. You can also do things like use TE's and backs to chip to help a tackle out, help hide him a little bit. Can't really do the same thing for an interior OL. Gardner has very good escapability as well, he's going to make his offensive tackles look better at pass protection than they really are.
Morris is a pretty "meh" guy according to whom? You? Morris was a 5* to Scout and in the top 100 on Rivals and 247, and in the top 120 on ESPN. Pretty much same rankings that Gardner was as a high school recruit. It's way too early to write him off one way or the other. He wasn't able to enroll early so we haven't seen him go through a spring yet, all he's done is throw 6 passes total in the 3rd and 4th quarters against a MAC team that was already getting beat down by 40+ points. Morris went 4 of 6 for 59 yards and 1 INT. His first pass was way off target, but his other 5 were right on the money. His INT wasn't his fault, threw a pass that hit Dennis Norfleet right in the hands, went through Norfleet's hands into the air and then into a CMU defenders hands. Norfleet should've caught that, but that is the danger of throwing to a 5'7 slot receiver that's a converted RB.
I would not be so sure on Gardner leaving. Let's say Michigan plays 14 games this year. Well his entire catalouge of games as a starting QB would be 19 games as a starting QB. That's definitely not a lot to go off of, and he's still raw as hell. He's got to improve drastically on reading his progressions and on cutting out the boneheaded "wtf" moments. Gardner has had a boneheaded "wtf" moment in all 7 games he's played at QB. He's got a ton of talent, but he's nowhere near ready. He NEEDS another year to get ready for the NFL. He leaves after this year he might , might be a late 1st. He comes back and improves, he's got the talent to go #1.
And Michigan has had a long history of guys coming back prior to Lewan. Jake Long came back when he would've been a top 10 pick. Braylon Edwards stayed his senior year and he would've been a top 10 pick. Marlin Jackson came back when everybody said he would've been a top 10 pick. Leon Hall came back for his senior year as well. Chad Henne came back when he would've been a mid or late 1st rounder, got hurt, played like crap as a senior and his draft stock fell to the 2nd round. Brandon Graham came back for his senior year, so did LaMarr Woodley. Tyrone Wheatley stayed, got injured had a subpar senior year and fell. Players just stay at Michigan. Woodson left early but he had no reason to stay, he was playing at an All-American level as a true freshman, he literally had nothing left to prove at the college level. Ty Law left early but that was because his family was in bad shape financially. I don't know what it is, guys at Michigan just tend to stick around.
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Rack Em
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They must enjoy watching incestuous behavior.
The reason I don't believe in Morris is because of his performance his senior year. There's a reason Rivals dropped him in the rankings by a lot. And yes, I know he had mono. And no, that doesn't make it "okay". That's still development time lost.
He might well be fine. I'm not saying he should be written off. Just saying there's no reason to project him to be a stud at this point. Most recruits don't work out, and Morris didn't even end up as a super elite guy on the site with the best track record.
As far as Gardner goes, Michigan's also lost guys who weren't ready for the draft early. Donovan Warren comes to mind lately. It happens to everyone. If Gardner plays like he played last night, it's a good bet he's gone. There's a reason Morris played vs. CMU - they want to "blood him" early.
He might well be fine. I'm not saying he should be written off. Just saying there's no reason to project him to be a stud at this point. Most recruits don't work out, and Morris didn't even end up as a super elite guy on the site with the best track record.
As far as Gardner goes, Michigan's also lost guys who weren't ready for the draft early. Donovan Warren comes to mind lately. It happens to everyone. If Gardner plays like he played last night, it's a good bet he's gone. There's a reason Morris played vs. CMU - they want to "blood him" early.
phork
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This is one of those wacky years. We don't know how strong anyone in particular is. If Michigan played anyone the way they played us in the first half I bet they can make most games respectable.
Yes I believe they have. And frankly I don't care too much about recruiting rankings. Anyone at or near the top10 or 15 will have the talent you need to get to elite status. Its what you do with it afterwards that counts. Their D is a still a year or 2 away, but their offense can hide that. And Mattison's schemes are pretty darn good at masking their deficiencies.
He might come back but he is going to be a year behind. A year layoff, especially away from the program, is not going to work that great.
You are right. 58% completion, 12TDs and 6INTs.
Did I say this year? And this is classic koolaid glasses. We were a play away from LOSING by ONLY 3-4 points.
No idea who that is.
No one expected them to go to the Sugar bowl and win it either. So if they don't happen to sneak into the NCG like we did last year they will go to the Rose and at worst be an atlarge. By the time that comes around they will be a better team.
I'd rather him spend time in school getting his crap worked out and spending 365 days in the program. But thats just me.
Michigan has "it" right now. Whatever it is they are selling kids are sucking it up by the truck load. Gardner will be back I'd almost put my house on it.
TomHaverford
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Morris got dropped because he basically missed his entire senior year. When he participated in the All-Star practices and games he had lost 15 pounds from mono and hadn't played organized football in months. He was pretty rusty. Only makes sense he didn't look as crisp as he had in the past, so he dropped.
There's no reason to write him off and no reason to project him as a bust. It's still a wait and see mode. He's got every physical talent you'd want in a QB. He can move a little bit and his arm strength is basically as good as it gets.
Donovan Warren left early because he hated Rich Rodriguez. This isn't a big secret or anything. Warren thought he was going to be a mid round pick, so he bolted. Lots of Lloyd Carr's "guys" did not like Rodriguez btw. And there is a reason that Morris played vs. CMU. He's the back-up QB. It has nothing to do with wanting to "blood him" early because they think Gardner is as good as gone. It has everything to do with Morris being the only healthy scholarship QB on the roster. Russell Bellomy tore his ACL, he's done for the year. Morris is literally the only scholarship QB on the roster.
With how terrible Bellomy looked last year, wouldn't surprise me if they would want to make Morris the back-up even if Bellomy had been healthy. Bellomy wasn't just bad last year in the few games he got in, he was Nick Sheridan bad. One of the least physically talented QB's that I've ever seen at Michigan. His passes took forever and a day to get to his intended target, physically he just looked like a guy that did not belong in a BCS conference, let alone at a place like Michigan or ND or any other "helmet school".
rtrn2glory
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Mind of Mike: Hand changes plans
talks about Hand switching his plans, but i don't have access....anyone??
talks about Hand switching his plans, but i don't have access....anyone??
phork
Raining On Your Parade
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Can't make the Florida game he was planning on. Has to reschedule.
GreenSox04
LET THE BIG DOG EAT!
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I'm at a crossroads of whether I want Michigan to keep pulling Ws to make that loss look better or do I want them to drop a few to slow this recruiting train down..
K
koonja
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ND is on right now dude.
GreenSox04
LET THE BIG DOG EAT!
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Calabrese's People
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ND For the education. Michigan for the girls.
GreenSox04
LET THE BIG DOG EAT!
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ND For the education. Michigan for the girls.
I think that's how I looked after Hendrix happened
GoldenIsThyFame
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K
koonja
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Haha, burn baby!
Jackalope1977
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GITF, thank you for providing me with a chuckle this morning.
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I wish this was an outlet more reputable than Chat Sports.... but yeah, obviously when you buy what a coach who doesn't actually coach anything is selling and their promises of grandeur your bound to be disappointed. Michigan hasn't even competed for the crown of the worst AQ conference in the country in a decade now. And there is no indication that they will ever be able to compete with Ohio State.
GoldenIsThyFame
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Yea all the Michigan sites keep deleting threads referencing this article. They all think that writer is a hack so it obviously must be taken with a grain of salt.
NDdomer2
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Gotta be hard as a coach when a group of kids have came to you saying they would like to maybe leave but they really love you as a coach. However, when they say "we were promised some things that aren't happening."
How do you have anything to say in response other than trying to convince them they will next year.
How do you have anything to say in response other than trying to convince them they will next year.
phork
Raining On Your Parade
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Several Michigan Players Considering Transfer
Several Michigan Players Considering Transfer
Take it for what its worth. The MGoBloggers consider Ace a hack, but here it is:
Exclusive: Multiple Michigan underclassmen exploring transfer options
Several Michigan Players Considering Transfer
Take it for what its worth. The MGoBloggers consider Ace a hack, but here it is:
Exclusive: Multiple Michigan underclassmen exploring transfer options