George Zimmerman Trial

[irishpat183]

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[Rhode Irish]

OK so we have gone from not investigating (which no one believes thus the sarcasm font) to not rigorously investigating and making references to inferences of the police who now investigated but not rigorously?

Would you mind trying this again, but in English?

 

[connor_in]

And now its ok for Rush Limbaugh to call anyone "n***a".......

Based on girlfriend's first interview...yes

Based on girlfriend's second interview...no

However, it does appear he said it after the first and before the second.

Please note...we are discussing the ends in "a" version as noted in your OP

 

[phgreek]

Last year during Halloween a bunch of teens through TP in my tree and ran away. They did the same to several of our neighbors. If I followed every teen that walked though my neighborhood that I didn't know because of the vandalims that took place in october, I'd be considered the neighborhood lunatic and insanely creepy. Are you saying that Zimmerman is the neighborhood lunatic or just creepy? If I did it enough, I'd expect to be in a confrontation. Maybe I should go buy a gun like Zimmerman's. It was a real pain in the *** getting that toilet paper out of that tree. Oh, and he didn't appear to be following Martin -- he was following him.

...I'm not sure this is the most appropriate comparison. Zimmerman cited thievery and a neighbor who was roughed up pretty good during the course of a robbery as motivation for his involvement in the neighborhood watch program...the perpetrator was alleged to be black there too. I think we aren't talking about matters of teenaged torture of the neighborhood...but more lifey/deathy kind stuff here...

 

[irishpat183]

I believe that it is more appropriate to try to figure out what happened (through scenarios and discussion) than it is to simply believe an unbelievable story from a guy with everything to gain if we all buy it. Your implication that I am supporting Martin because I really, really want to is absurd. I listened to Zimmerman's story, thought it threw and determined that it made no sense to me. Who's to say Martin wasn't? What? Martin is dead. What was he making up?

So you don't buy it because........

 

[kmoose]

Last year during Halloween a bunch of teens through TP in my tree and ran away. They did the same to several of our neighbors. If I followed every teen that walked though my neighborhood that I didn't know because of the vandalims that took place in october, I'd be considered the neighborhood lunatic and insanely creepy. Are you saying that Zimmerman is the neighborhood lunatic or just creepy? If I did it enough, I'd expect to be in a confrontation. Maybe I should go buy a gun like Zimmerman's. It was a real pain in the *** getting that toilet paper out of that tree. Oh, and he didn't appear to be following Martin -- he was following him.

Please don't. There are too many armed retards out there, already.

 

[connor_in]

Would you mind trying this again, but in English?

you said:

Originally Posted by Rhode Irish
The outrage here was that the police knew the identity of the shooter and appeared content to take him at his word and not investigate the incident.

then you said:

Originally Posted by Rhode Irish
I don't get the sarcasm font here. This is pretty much what I'm saying. I'm not even making inferences about why the case was handled the way it was (although those are there to be made and many people have made them). I'm just sticking to the facts that a kid was shot and they knew who the shooter was, and without conducting a rigorous investigation - which they couldn't have possibly done the night of the shooting - they decided and not to arrest Zimmerman, or even take him into custody and question him for the allowed period of time prior to filing formal charges. There is no escaping the appearance of impropriety there. To then look at a weak State's case as proof that the police acted properly is doubly insulting and infuriating, because if they had handled the case better from the jump the prosecution would have had an easier case to make.

So, we have gone from saying they didn't investigate...which no one believes (thus the sarcasm font)....to now saying they didn't rigorously investigate. Also, you made reference to other peoples inferences about the police and their motives for conducting themselves in the the manner they did in their non-rigorous investigation without listing or taking ownership of those inferences. Thus insulting the policemen again without detail, but simply by the connotations of those inferences.

 

[Cackalacky]

Based on girlfriend's first interview...yes

Based on girlfriend's second interview...no

However, it does appear he said it after the first and before the second.

Please note...we are discussing the ends in "a" version as noted in your OP

yes. I was being facetious like pat. I hate any variation of that word.

 

[irishpat183]

yes. I was being facetious like pat. I hate any variation of that word.

I agree. I don't think it helps anyone at all for any group to use it. We shouldn't be able to pick and choose who gets to use offensive terms. It's ridiculous.

 

[Rhode Irish]

So, we have gone from saying they didn't investigate...which no one believes (thus the sarcasm font)....to now saying they didn't rigorously investigate. Also, you made reference to other peoples inferences about the police and their motives for conducting themselves in the the manner they did in their non-rigorous investigation without listing or taking ownership of those inferences. Thus insulting the policemen again without detail, but simply by the connotations of those inferences.

OK, much clearer. We really haven't gone from one place to another. I didn't think when I said originally that they "didn't investigate" that someone would take that to mean I thought they didn't show up in response to the 911 call. When I originally said they didn't investigate, I meant the exact same thing as when I later said they didn't investigate rigorously. The point is that they did not pursue the case the in the manner that was warranted based on the fact that you had a dead kid on the ground. My mistake for assuming that this audience was smart enough to understand that.

As far as the inferences, I did not take ownership of them because I am not endorsing them. I think I was pretty explicit about that. The inference of which I was speaking was, of course, that the police did not take the case seriously because it was "just" a black boy that was killed and the shooter had an excuse they thought they could get by with. I may not endorse this inference because I don't know these officers personally and I'm not familiar with the workings of the department. But clearly their conduct fell somewhere between unprofessionally lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. History being what it is in this country, I do not think it was totally unreasonable for people to assume the worst in the immediate aftermath of what happened. As I said, that is not what I'm arguing here, and I tried to reference it only in passing, so do not ascribe that viewpoint to me.

 

[Rack Em]

This isn't the streets of Chicago.

Whatchu know about my hood?

 

[Cackalacky]

Whatchu know about my hood?

I was under the impression it is gangland there. Of course that is what all my gun nut friends tell me who hate Obama.

 

[irishpat183]

Whatchu know about my hood?

I was under the impression it is gangland there. Of course that is what all my gun nut friends tell me who hate Obama.

My best friends brother is now a head detective in Des Plaines , but started in Chi town as an undercover....it is gangland. And he's a pro-union Obama guy....

talk about some crazy *** stories, sit down with this guy for an hour

 

[Cackalacky]

My best friends brother is now a head detective in Des Plaines , but started in Chi town as an undercover....it is gangland. And he's a pro-union Obama guy....

talk about some crazy *** stories, sit down with this guy for an hour

Holy crap dude. 2 posts in a row where we agree. WTF is going on? LOL.

 

[SaltyND24]

Note that it not only says in the article that a racial bias can't be "confirmed" due to different circumstances from case to case, but I feel that this was an interesting read and may add to everything already said...

Is There Racial Bias in “Stand Your Ground” Laws? | Criminal Justice | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[GoIrish41]

So GZ had his gun out in front of him while stalking TM throughout the neighborhood...I must have missed where that was stated as fact somewhere

For guys who think it is stupid to discuss hypotheticals there sure are a bunch of you here discussing them.

 

[GoIrish41]

So now we're assuming that GZ was waiving the gun at TM? Again...you have nothing. You're just throwing **** against the wall. It's dumb.

TM reached for the gun during the fight. I guarantee that had GZ pulled the gun on him prior, there would've NEVER been a fight. Unless TM was a moron, and if that's the case, he got shoot for being an idiot and going after someone with a gun pointed at him.

TM could've run. I'm willign to bet that if TM ran, GZ wasn't going to shoot him. This isn't the streets of Chicago.

Is that because of the sound judgment he demonstrated that night or just a hunch?

 

[GoIrish41]

So you don't buy it because........

I have posted in this thread on that topic like 30 times. LOL. I fear if I do it again, one of you are coming to MY neighborhood with a gun. You'll have to go back and look at my previous posts.

 

[EddytoNow]

It's beginning to look like the media (in its inevitable fashion) is beginning to move on to the next story that they can exploit for ratings. Rolling Stone Magazine has given the media a new storyline to catch the public's attention. The House of Representatives has assured that an immigration bill will continue to be headline news. The media will return to the disfunctional relationship of the two major political parties. The justice or injustice of the Zimmerman verdict is being talked about less and less by the talking heads. Unfortunately, our disfunctional congress will continue to flounder and fail to address the underlying problems behind all these stories. Nothing was done following the Newtown shootings. Nothing will be done following the Zimmerman verdict. Politicians only react. They don't lead. Their only concern is with the next election. Rather than make the tough decisions necessary to lead the country, they choose to follow the current news cycle in an ongoing effort to pander for votes.

The Zimmerman-Martin story is starting to fade and the politicians will use that as justification for doing nothing. However, it will re-emerge when and if Zimmerman is charged with violating TM's civil rights or when Trayvon's parents decide to file a civil claim and seek monetary damages. If either of those events happen, the politicians and talking heads in the media will return in force.

 

[GoIrish41]

...I'm not sure this is the most appropriate comparison. Zimmerman cited thievery and a neighbor who was roughed up pretty good during the course of a robbery as motivation for his involvement in the neighborhood watch program...the perpetrator was alleged to be black there too. I think we aren't talking about matters of teenaged torture of the neighborhood...but more lifey/deathy kind stuff here...

Meant tongue in cheek, actually, not as a real-life comparisson. Anyone who knows me would understand the buying a gun comment is absolutely never going to happen, so I thought it would be obvious. While it isn't a strong comparrison because of the nature of the previous crimes, the behaviors I suggested were not too far off from Zimmerman's. Other black kids in the neighborhood said that they felt he picked on them, so he had something of a reputation. IMO, a guy like that is just one incident away from getting into a fight. All these references to the previous robberies and the explanation that "the perpetrator was black" are astonishingly ignorant. It wasn't Trayvon Martin who committed that robbery. Adolph Hitler was white, it doesn't mean every white person hates Jews. When people say things like that it makes me wonder how people can so emphatically say this case had nothing to do with race. All black people do not rob houses. Assumptions like that are what started this horrible chain of events off in the first place.

 

[GoIrish41]

It's beginning to look like the media (in its inevitable fashion) is beginning to move on to the next story that they can exploit for ratings. Rolling Stone Magazine has given the media a new storyline to catch the public's attention. The House of Representatives has assured that an immigration bill will continue to be headline news. The media will return to the disfunctional relationship of the two major political parties. The justice or injustice of the Zimmerman verdict is being talked about less and less by the talking heads. Unfortunately, our disfunctional congress will continue to flounder and fail to address the underlying problems behind all these stories. Nothing was done following the Newtown shootings. Nothing will be done following the Zimmerman verdict. Politicians only react. They don't lead. Their only concern is with the next election. Rather than make the tough decisions necessary to lead the country, they choose to follow the current news cycle in an ongoing effort to pander for votes.

The Zimmerman-Martin story is starting to fade and the politicians will use that as justification for doing nothing. However, it will re-emerge when and if Zimmerman is charged with violating TM's civil rights or when Trayvon's parents decide to file a civil claim and seek monetary damages. If either of those events happen, the politicians and talking heads in the media will return in force.

wow, you are all sunshine and lolipops aren't you. I'm not sure I even want to live after that post.

 

[ACamp1900]

As depressing as it is... he is dead on.

 

[Cackalacky]

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Pat, please refrain from, introducing nazis into this discussion. The Martins are allowed to pursue civil actions. That is part of our exalted justice system, not some nazi kangaroo court.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat, please refrain from, introducing nazis into this discussion. The Martins are allowed to pursue civil actions. That is part of our exalted justice system, not some nazi kangaroo court.

You miss the point.....The DOJ has no authority in this case. Nor should they be involved. I guess everytime someone FEELS (key word) like their civil rights are violated, they should pick up the phone and dial Holder and government???

Ridiculous.

It was tried, and settled. Just because the race baiters didn't get their guy, doesn't mean the system didn't work. It actually did work, very well, in this case.

 

[Cackalacky]

As depressing as it is... he is dead on.

Well McCain did lead a group of republicans over McConnells head to salvage the appointees and filibuster nuclear option and he joined Elizabeth Warren in a bill to break up the big banks. Must be midterms coming up.

 

[GoIrish41]

You miss the point.....The DOJ has no authority in this case. Nor should they be involved. I guess everytime someone FEELS (key word) like their civil rights are violated, they should pick up the phone and dial Holder and government???

Ridiculous.

It was tried, and settled. Just because the race baiters didn't get their guy, doesn't mean the system didn't work. It actually did work, very well, in this case.

The system is still at work. Agree there shouldn't be a federal case, but there will certainly be a civil case. Zimmerman will need lawyers to review his book deal that he's going to surely get. The system isn't one thing ...

 

[Cackalacky]

You miss the point.....The DOJ has no authority in this case. Nor should they be involved. I guess everytime someone FEELS (key word) like their civil rights are violated, they should pick up the phone and dial Holder and government???

Ridiculous.

It was tried, and settled. Just because the race baiters didn't get their guy, doesn't mean the system didn't work. It actually did work, very well, in this case.

I believe they don't need the feds and can have a state civil trial, which is perfectly legal. Your point is moot. The DOJ are not nazis. Now the Martins may choose to go outside of Sanford to pursue and I have seen the NAACP wants the feds to pursue hate crime charges but I don't think Holder will.

A violation of civil rights is not a feeling or an emotion.

 

[irishpat183]

Note that it not only says in the article that a racial bias can't be "confirmed" due to different circumstances from case to case, but I feel that this was an interesting read and may add to everything already said...

Is There Racial Bias in “Stand Your Ground” Laws? | Criminal Justice | FRONTLINE | PBS

A. GZ did not invoke the Stand your ground law....Instant loss of crediblity for the author and anyone else talking about SYG in this case. Talk about not doing your homework.

B. "Roman found that the killings of black people by whites were more likely to be considered justified than the killings of white people by blacks. " As you stated, this means nothing other than what it says. Maybe it's becuase in those cases....they were actually justified? Just because statistics favor one group over another, doesn't mean there is anything else too it. The goal is not to be "fair", but to get it right. He mentions as much. And I'm not arguing the numbers at all, but it's hard to be sympathic if we don't know the circumstances. Articles like this boardline the irresponsible.

C. This proves the agenda that is being pushed by the MSM and race baiters...even though SYG has nothing to do with this particular case, SYG is being referenced constantly by these blowhards looking to kill the law.

 

[GoIrish41]

Well McCain did lead a group of republicans over McConnells head to salvage the appointees and filibuster nuclear option and he joined Elizabeth Warren in a bill to break up the big banks. Must be midterms coming up.

There, a glimmer of hope ... a ray of shunshine ... Zu Zu's peddels ... I feel better now ... Life IS good ....

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Pat, please refrain from, introducing nazis into this discussion. The Martins are allowed to pursue civil actions. That is part of our exalted justice system, not some nazi kangaroo court.

Godwin's Law in action. If this was the first Nazi analogy, I'm honestly surprised we made it this far.