George Zimmerman Trial

[jmurphy75]

So it turns out that this guy is a liar and a schmuck, and the reason he was fired and these photos weren't turned over is because he erased them! Good! Oh my, I have got to stop laughing so hard!

How is he a liar and a schmuck? Please explain in all of your wisdom

 

[ShawneeIrish]

But now you have to differentiate between was he profiling or were there just alot of "black people" walking thru his neighborhood that shouldn't be there? "Racial profiling" is a bad term it is just profiling race is only one aspect. The whole profiling thing is used in every law enforcement agency around the world to them it is pretty much the law of probability. Heck profiling is used in every sales and business market there is. What needs to be proven for your argument to be proven is that there were the same amount of non black people walking around his neighborhood that he did not call the police for.

Exactly why should these black people not be there? What about a black kid (or an adult) walking down the street indicates that they should not be there?

 

[Golden_Domer]

Some times I had enough.

In testimony, GZ's camp and the prosecutor have succeded in portraying GZ as having done this before, in fact it was his sop. I asked someone in FLA jurisprudence. They could jump on this if they wanted. (As you kind if indicated you understood.) That would be like if some guy followed all brunettes around at the beach that wore polka-dot bikinis. Also, in certain cases one evening events could be divided into segments you follow me at the ball game, later at the bar, and then on the cab ride home (because by this time I am three sheets into the wind.) I was told that with the way GZ laid out the event, and the 9-1-1 record, that he lost contact, that could be considered "repeatedly" under the law. Followed him in the car. Lost him. Followed him on foot.

And Golden, please let me know if I have treated you like you describe me doing. I am not denying that I did that, and have done that. I just want to make sure that you don't think that I have ever done that to you.

Even if he had done this before (ex., pursued other black individuals), it would not count towards "repeated" action because the action has to be "directed at a specific person."

Just because I was curious, I did a quick search of Florida case law and the the courts state that repeated actions must have separate and distinct factual events. For example, in one Florida case a person sent multiple harassing letters to someone and stuffed them all in one envelope. The courts found that under Florida law, even though he took the time to pen multiple letters on separate occasions, the mailing constituted only one act.

A good test for repeated acts is: could each isolated action taken by the alleged stalker be considered a separate and distinct factual event to support multiple prosecutions and convictions? In the Zimmerman case, it would not, since his actions revolved around similar factual circumstances on the night of the incident.

Either way, aside from the question of "repeated" action. They must also prove malicious intent and that the alleged stalker had no legitimate purpose for his action. Proving both would be tough.

 

[magogian]

Anyways, to "repeatedly" follow means there must be separate and distinct acts of stalking. Also, the statute doesn't define "repeatedly", so I don't know where you read that repeatedly means "continuity of actions." Under Florida law, GZ's actions that night would have only constituted one act, therefore under the facts of this case, GZ would not be able to be prosecuted for stalking under Fla. law.

Golden,

Read my explanation of the statute. It helps explain where that language comes from and what it means.

 

[jmurphy75]

Exactly why should these black people not be there? What about a black kid (or an adult) walking down the street indicates that they should not be there?

Gated community, no trespassing signs and they do not live there.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How is he a liar and a schmuck? Please explain in all of your wisdom

He was fired for inappropriately handling the evidence, then breaking procedural rules, then covering up after himself. I think I have that right.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Even if he had done this before (ex., pursued other black individuals), it would not count towards "repeated" action because the action has to be "directed at a specific person."

Just because I was curious, I did a quick search of Florida case law and the the courts state that repeated actions must have separate and distinct factual events. For example, in one Florida case a person sent multiple harassing letters to someone and stuffed them all in one envelope. The courts found that under Florida law, even though he took the time to pen multiple letters on separate occasions, the mailing constituted only one act.

A good test for repeated acts is: could each isolated action taken by the alleged stalker be considered a separate and distinct factual event to support multiple prosecutions and convictions? In the Zimmerman case, it would not, since his actions revolved around similar factual circumstances on the night of the incident.

Either way, aside from the question of "repeated" action. They must also prove malicious intent and that the alleged stalker had no legitimate purpose for his action. Proving both would be tough.

The way it was explained to me is it says "a specific person" not "one specific person." That way if a guy does it to three specific girls in a row he is guilty. But we don't have to wait until that one person is murdered to act.

 

[jmurphy75]

He was fired for inappropriately handling the evidence, then breaking procedural rules, then covering up after himself. I think I have that right.

That's not even close to what they're reporting here, link to where you're seeing that? CNN and Fox just got done saying this was blatant repercussions for bringing the evidence to the defenses attention. They even went into detail about how his last performance review was a couple of months ago and full of accolades. Not calling you a liar as things can rapidly change and would like to read the same thing as you.

 

[Golden_Domer]

The way it was explained to me is it says "a specific person" not "one specific person." That way if a guy does it to three specific girls in a row he is guilty. But we don't have to wait until that one person is murdered to act.

That's an incorrect explanation. The statute itself dictates the actions must be "directed at a specific person."

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Exactly why should these black people not be there? What about a black kid (or an adult) walking down the street indicates that they should not be there?

Gated community, no trespassing signs and they do not live there.

Did not answer the question of what indicates they should not be there. That it is a gated neighborhood and no trespassing signs is irrelevant to how you would know that they should not be there. How did he know they did not live there? Who knows every person in there neighborhood that lives there? Basically you are saying this is a gated neighborhood, black people do not belong there. There is nothing about someone walking down the street that indicates they should not be there other than racist or class based attitudes that this person does not belong in this kind of neighborhood.

 

[jmurphy75]

Did not answer the question of what indicates they should not be there. That it is a gated neighborhood and no trespassing signs is irrelevant to how you would know that they should not be there. How did he know they did not live there? Who knows every person in there neighborhood that lives there? Basically you are saying this is a gated neighborhood, black people do not belong there. There is nothing about someone walking down the street that indicates they should not be there other than racist or class based attitudes that this person does not belong in this kind of neighborhood.

Don't get this twisted, I'm not saying who should or shouldn't be there. This post was in response specific to GoIrish's post not a generalization go back and read them.

 

[gkIrish]

Did not answer the question of what indicates they should not be there. That it is a gated neighborhood and no trespassing signs is irrelevant to how you would know that they should not be there. How did he know they did not live there? Who knows every person in there neighborhood that lives there? Basically you are saying this is a gated neighborhood, black people do not belong there. There is nothing about someone walking down the street that indicates they should not be there other than racist or class based attitudes that this person does not belong in this kind of neighborhood.

GZ was the neighborhood watch coordinator. It was his obligation to know who did or did not live in the gated community. While he may not have personally known every single person who lived there, it's understandable that he assumed that someone he had never seen before didn't belong there.

Edit: I'm not familiar with the demographics of the community but I've heard there were few, if any, black families that lived there. GZ isn't racist just because he followed someone because their race, in the context of the fact that few people of that particular race lived in that community.

 

[GoIrish41]

Not commenting on the aspect of TM being black but GZ was the neighborhood watch coordinator. It was his obligation to know who did or did not live in the gated community. While he may not have personally known every single person who lived there, it's understandable that he assumed that someone he had never seen before didn't belong there.

that isn't reasonable at all -- particularly since he guessed wrong in this instance and a teenager ended up dead. guilty or innocent, one thing is clear is that zimmerman didn't act reasonably.

 

[GoIrish41]

Looks like the jurors are coming back into the courtroom shortly -- not sure if they have a verdict or what, but it's happening any minute according to CNN.

edit: looks like they have a question for the court. nothing to see here.

 

[gkIrish]

that isn't reasonable at all -- particularly since he guessed wrong in this instance and a teenager ended up dead. guilty or innocent, one thing is clear is that zimmerman didn't act reasonably.

How does the fact that he was wrong bear on whether or not he is guilty? You can be reasonable and still be wrong. And never mind that the reasonableness of his behavior leading up to the altercation has no relevance as to whether he acted in self-defense so long as he was not the initial aggressor.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Jurors have a question concerning manslaughter.

 

[GoIrish41]

Jurors have a question concerning manslaughter.

where did you hear what the question is about?

never mind, CNN just reported it too. If the question is about manslaughter, murder 2 may be off the table but it also may mean that the self-defense argument was rejected as well.

 

[ACamp1900]

One thing that I have thought about concerning this whole mess… this is going to keep happening. What I mean is adults with a vested interest in communities are going to keep getting into deadly situations with punk kids who don’t know better yet. Know before I start let me make this clear, I do not side with Zimmerman or Martin… to me Zimmerman was far too overzealous and clearly created the situation, and Martin, yeah, he seems like a complete punk wannabe thug teenager/young adult… so don’t think I am siding with Zimmerman here, though I am going to potentially sympathize with a few things.

My parents have worked their butts off for a few decades and just before the market feel off they finally bought a house in what was supposed to be one of the nicer areas of our part of Cali… The Brentwood section of the High Desert… well since then the neighborhood they live in is now 85 percent section 8 according to law enforcement and other stats we could find locally… the average home value is still high for this area of Cali. Anyway, the area they live in is now almost single handedly responsible for Victorville, California being listed as one of the ten most dangerous cities in the state… right up there with Oakland, and parts of Los Angeles… My parents live right in the thick of it… many burglaries shootings and last week a body was found two streets up… stabbed and left there to root…


So,… Yesterday my mother was driving home and saw one of the houses on her street had a bunch of punk kids that she didn’t recognize coming in and out of it with clothes and stuff… she pulled up to them and simply asked if they live there… one girl said “yeah”… my mother then asked, “okay, what’s the address if you live there”… the kids just laughed and walked off with their loot…

My mother quickly went home and called 911… she was told that it wasn’t an emergency and there was nothing the police could or would do about it… a burglary, in process… don’t you think the cops should at least throw a token gesture at that one…??? Hell, they should mob the damn house and freakin do something… and the kids?? They didn’t run or hide, they KNEW the cops wouldn’t stop them…

Just some more background.... on the night of that fight about a year or so ago where the Hispanic fighter was beaten by the African American fighter in a controversial boxing match (forgive me I don’t follow boxing anymore and forget both of their names) a race riot broke out RIGHT IN FRONT of my parents drive way… they have been burglarized twice, once without any response from authorities, and there has been a number of shootings and stabbings in their neighborhood over the past five years or so…

So I start thinking about it and it hits me… situations like this cannot be confined to my parents… there are probably good, hardworking lower and middle class Americans all over the country who have busted their hump to get their slice of ‘the good life’ only to see their neighborhoods torn apart while law enforcement does nothing… then it hit me… that’s most likely George Zimmerman… what the hell do you think is going to happen if the police continue to fail people?? At some point, otherwise decent Americans are going to start taking things into their own hands… now I’m not saying **** storm media circus’ like this will be a recurring thing… but adults taking things into their own hands most likely will be…

 

[Bluto]

One thing that I have thought about concerning this whole mess… this is going to keep happening. What I mean is adults with a vested interest in communities are going to keep getting into deadly situations with punk kids who don’t know better yet. Know before I start let me make this clear, I do not side with Zimmerman or Martin… to me Zimmerman was far too overzealous and clearly created the situation, and Martin, yeah, he seems like a complete punk wannabe thug teenager/young adult… so don’t think I am siding with Zimmerman here, though I am going to potentially sympathize with a few things.

My parents have worked their butts off for a few decades and just before the market feel off they finally bought a house in what was supposed to be one of the nicer areas of our part of Cali… The Brentwood section of the High Desert… well since then the neighborhood they live in is now 85 percent section 8 according to law enforcement and other stats we could find locally… the average home value is still high for this area of Cali. Anyway, the area they live in is now almost single handedly responsible for Victorville, California being listed as one of the ten most dangerous cities in the state… right up there with Oakland, and parts of Los Angeles… My parents live right in the thick of it… many burglaries shootings and last week a body was found two streets up… stabbed and left there to root…


So,… Yesterday my mother was driving home and saw one of the houses on her street had a bunch of punk kids that she didn’t recognize coming in and out of it with clothes and stuff… she pulled up to them and simply asked if they live there… one girl said “yeah”… my mother then asked, “okay, what’s the address if you live there”… the kids just laughed and walked off with their loot…

My mother quickly went home and called 911… she was told that it wasn’t an emergency and there was nothing the police could or would do about it… a burglary, in process… don’t you think the cops should at least throw a token gesture at that one…??? Hell, they should mob the damn house and freakin do something… and the kids?? They didn’t run or hide, they KNEW the cops wouldn’t stop them…

Just some more background.... on the night of that fight about a year or so ago where the Hispanic fighter was beaten by the African American fighter in a controversial boxing match (forgive me I don’t follow boxing anymore and forget both of their names) a race riot broke out RIGHT IN FRONT of my parents drive way… they have been burglarized twice, once without any response from authorities, and there has been a number of shootings and stabbings in their neighborhood over the past five years or so…

So I start thinking about it and it hits me… situations like this cannot be confined to my parents… there are probably good, hardworking lower and middle class Americans all over the country who have busted their hump to get their slice of ‘the good life’ only to see their neighborhoods torn apart while law enforcement does nothing… then it hit me… that’s most likely George Zimmerman… what the hell do you think is going to happen if the police continue to fail people?? At some point, otherwise decent Americans are going to start taking things into their own hands… now I’m not saying **** storm media circus’ like this will be a recurring thing… but adults taking things into their own hands most likely will be…

I think the best course of action for your parents is to organize other seniors (huge voting block) and demand that their local, State and Federal reps start paying attention to this problem. I'm pretty confident that if 100 or so pissed off seniors showed up at the next city council meeting demanding change things would start happening.

Anyhow, that sucks for your parents.

 

[Rack Em]

what the hell do you think is going to happen if the police continue to fail people?? At some point, otherwise decent Americans are going to start taking things into their own hands… now I’m not saying **** storm media circus’ like this will be a recurring thing… but adults taking things into their own hands most likely will be…

 

[Rack Em]

I think the best course of action for your parents is to organize other seniors (huge voting block) and demand that their local, State and Federal reps start paying attention to this problem. I'm pretty confident that if 100 or so pissed off seniors showed up at the next city council meeting demanding change things would start happening.

Anyhow, that sucks for your parents.

 

[ACamp1900]

I think the best course of action for your parents is to organize other seniors (huge voting block) and demand that their local, State and Federal reps start paying attention to this problem. I'm pretty confident that if 100 or so pissed off seniors showed up at the next city council meeting demanding change things would start happening.

Anyhow, that sucks for your parents.

Unfortunately they passed that stage a while ago... Short on options is kind of my point...

 

[Rack Em]

Unfortunately they passed that stage a while ago... Short on options is kind of my point...

 

[Bluto]

Good one.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Since you posted this three times it would have been a lot funnier if you posted Death Wish, then Death Wish 2, then Death Wish 3. Just sayin'

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Since you posted this three times it would have been a lot funnied if you poted Deathwish, then Deathwish 2, then Deathwish 3. Just sayin'

Paging Mr. Dshans.... Mr. Dshans, your table is ready.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Paging Mr. Dshans.... Mr. Dshans, your table is ready.

Yeah lots of typos, but I could care less about grammar on a msg board.

 

[connor_in]

Maher: Korean Grocers in Compton Might Want to Get Fire Extinguishers Ready | NewsBusters

So does that make Mayer racist?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Verdict has been reached.

And I would hope that people realize that there are no winners either way. A young man is dead and another may very well spend the next 15-20 years in prison. At the end of the day, two lives will have been affected in ways I hope I never have to deal with. May God comfort both families involved here.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Maher: Korean Grocers in Compton Might Want to Get Fire Extinguishers Ready | NewsBusters

So does that make Mayer racist?

The shocking moment on that show for me was when Cornel West said that a young black person is shot by the police every 28 hours in America.