'13 AR DT Marquis Dickerson (Notre Dame Preferred Walk On)

[NDPhilly]

The thing is that this kid isn't getting in without football in all likelyhood so his "compensation" is receiving a degree from one of the finest Universities in the world.

 

[stlnd01]

he is choosing to pay his own way and willingly putting his body in more harm than a lot of people ever will unwillingly. to deny him financial aid because he wants to walk on would be ludacris.

Also he's got no guarantees of anything, including, I believe, a second year of financial aid (if he's getting financial aid, which we don't actually know). SEC shenanigans aside, it is still generally frowned upon to yank a football scholarship without serious cause. Most top-tier recruits are going to take the full ride over the "maybe," every day of the week.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Just had to look up Maquis' Uncle Sam, and boom! Another June 14th birthday!

 

[Crazy Balki]

Hope your listening to this kid EV. You have no excuses, when this kid went out of his way to not only get the best education he could, but also challenge himself to the greatest degree on and off the field. I really hope this kid ends up being a great one. He definitely deserves it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Reps!

 

[NOLAIrish]

I refuse to believe athletes are eligible for need-based financial aid. That would be an enormous recruiting loophole

We discussed this a bit several months ago. Per Bylaw 15.5.1.2, he can receive need-based financial aid subject to two conditions:
1) He has to be evaluated and approved for the award on the same basis as every other student at the university; and
2) The second he sets foot on the field in a game, he counts against the scholarship limits (assuming he's still receiving institutional aid).

 

[Irish To The Core]

Uhhh, his home town might be statistically underprivileged, but he does have an uncle who we know is not hurting for dough. Why would we assume he is a hardship case?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I don't pay any of my nieces bill's. Nor can I be indebted by them, by law. And as per usual, we really know nothing, (about the situation), other than this seems to be a great kid!

Edit. Sorry if this came off dickish. But actually we don't know for sure his uncle has any money. All we know is he has a great birthday!

 

[NOLAIrish]

Uhhh, his home town might be statistically underprivileged, but he does have an uncle who we know is not hurting for dough. Why would we assume he is a hardship case?

We shouldn't. I think irishroo intended his questions as general curiosity about scholarship rules.

 

[Irish To The Core]

We shouldn't. I think irishroo intended his questions as general curiosity about scholarship rules.

Then why did irishroo call it "curious" that someone from that town could go to Notre Dame without a scholarship? The inference is clear and the discussion regarding grants re. athletes in his thread also implies that this might well be a case of a player who will need grants to attend ND.

All we know about his financial situation is that he felt no need to jump at the UAPB scholarship offer, instead choosing to come to ND without a football scholarship. This to me indicates that finances are not a problem for him. I pointed out that while he may come from a statistically underprivileged area, he most definitely has family with financial resources. (All those years as an impact NBA player probably mean Sam Perkins has some money)

While I am not saying that his uncle has anything to do with his being able to come to ND, it is clear that he is not financially strapped.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I don't pay any of my nieces bill's. Nor can I be indebted by them, by law. And as per usual, we really know nothing, (about the situation), other than this seems to be a great kid!

Edit. Sorry if this came off dickish. But actually we don't know for sure his uncle has any money. All we know is he has a great birthday!

Actually, we are not sure of anything. But the entire line of discussion implies quite a lot.

I did not mean to imply that Sam Perkins was paying for his nephew's education, but clearly tuition was not the deciding factor here. And while I don't know Perkin's financial status, I suspect that an NBA player of his caliber has a bit put aside. AND IF...that is a big IF, the young man's immediate family cannot afford to send him to ND, it would certainly not be a stretch for his well-to-do uncle to help out. All of this is in response to the implied assumption that he must need grants if he is from that part of the country.

I am saying that the whole discussion is off base.

He seems like a very motivated young man and like many of you I am hoping he does very well at Notre Dame. We can't have enough kids with this attitude in the locker room.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Actually, we are not sure of anything. But the entire line of discussion implies quite a lot.

I did not mean to imply that Sam Perkins was paying for his nephew's education, but clearly tuition was not the deciding factor here. And while I don't know Perkin's financial status, I suspect that an NBA player of his caliber has a bit put aside. AND IF...that is a big IF, the young man's immediate family cannot afford to send him to ND, it would certainly not be a stretch for his well-to-do uncle to help out. All of this is in response to the implied assumption that he must need grants if he is from that part of the country.

I am saying that the whole discussion is off base.

He seems like a very motivated young man and like many of you I am hoping he does very well at Notre Dame. We can't have enough kids with this attitude in the locker room.

Exactly!

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I LOVE Notre Dame 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀</p>— Marquis Dickerson (@TheFt_WorthStar) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFt_WorthStar/status/342287194255417344">June 5, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDFAN22]

Hope this kid pans out and gets some PT. Seems like a very high character kid who gets it and will have the drive to push others an himself into playing.

 

[RDU Irish]

Great story.

Some of you should also consider the level of loans that are included in ND meeting "need." Four years he could walk out with a six figure debt, and that is far from equal to a scholarship.

ND SHOULD go after kids like this (regardless of athletic prowess) to provide better socioeconomic diversity. Regardless of his family's particular economic standing, being raised in an area like that is a tremendous ballast to the sub-urban pipeline most students are familiar with.

 

[Emcee77]

Great story.

Some of you should also consider the level of loans that are included in ND meeting "need." Four years he could walk out with a six figure debt, and that is far from equal to a scholarship.

ND SHOULD go after kids like this (regardless of athletic prowess) to provide better socioeconomic diversity. Regardless of his family's particular economic standing, being raised in an area like that is a tremendous ballast to the sub-urban pipeline most students are familiar with.

Great point.

 

[irishroo]

Then why did irishroo call it "curious" that someone from that town could go to Notre Dame without a scholarship? The inference is clear and the discussion regarding grants re. athletes in his thread also implies that this might well be a case of a player who will need grants to attend ND.

All we know about his financial situation is that he felt no need to jump at the UAPB scholarship offer, instead choosing to come to ND without a football scholarship. This to me indicates that finances are not a problem for him. I pointed out that while he may come from a statistically underprivileged area, he most definitely has family with financial resources. (All those years as an impact NBA player probably mean Sam Perkins has some money)

While I am not saying that his uncle has anything to do with his being able to come to ND, it is clear that he is not financially strapped.

I made my original post well before any of us knew about the connection to Sam Perkins. I did point out in the OP that he may come from a well-off family that just happens to live in a very underpriveleged area, but that that situation was unlikely. Apparently, that unlikely situation is the reality here, which is great for Marquis and great for us.

 

[irishroo]

We discussed this a bit several months ago. Per Bylaw 15.5.1.2, he can receive need-based financial aid subject to two conditions:
1) He has to be evaluated and approved for the award on the same basis as every other student at the university; and
2) The second he sets foot on the field in a game, he counts against the scholarship limits (assuming he's still receiving institutional aid).

THANK YOU. This is exactly what I've been looking for - how the NCAA closes this loophole.

 

[ACamp1900]

We discussed this a bit several months ago. Per Bylaw 15.5.1.2, he can receive need-based financial aid subject to two conditions:
1) He has to be evaluated and approved for the award on the same basis as every other student at the university; and
2) The second he sets foot on the field in a game, he counts against the scholarship limits (assuming he's still receiving institutional aid).

Does set foot on the field mean DRESS... or PLAY...?? just to clarify.

 

[NDWorld247]

I wish we had some film of this kid. His coach/school did him dirty.

All of my vbucks for anyone that can find some!

 

[dshans]

All of my vbucks for anyone that can find some!

The problem, as I see it, is that all your vBucks wouldn't pay the freight for a Starbucks vEspresso Macchiato. Not worth the effort ...

 

[NDdomer2]

Does set foot on the field mean DRESS... or PLAY...?? just to clarify.

Is the "step foot on the field" rule only apply to football because basketball has walk ons play on the time in mop up duty.

That would put lots of teams over scholarship limits every year.

 

[NDWorld247]

The problem, as I see it, is that all your vBucks wouldn't pay the freight for a Starbucks vEspresso Macchiato. Not worth the effort ...

Hence the italics. Perhaps you should donate some of your 14.2 BILLION??

 

[Emcee77]

We discussed this a bit several months ago. Per Bylaw 15.5.1.2, he can receive need-based financial aid subject to two conditions:
1) He has to be evaluated and approved for the award on the same basis as every other student at the university; and
2) The second he sets foot on the field in a game, he counts against the scholarship limits (assuming he's still receiving institutional aid).

I found the same rule, and I agree that it appears to govern this situation, but I've always wondered whether this can be the whole story. I mean, do we have to conclude from this that guys like Connor Cavalaris, Tyler Plantz and Joe Schmidt are not on need-based financial aid? All three played special teams for us last year, and the staff wouldn't have done that if it made them automatic counters, would it? But ND is pretty expensive; aren't most people on some form of need-based financial aid? (Note that I'm not mentioning Salvi ... his dad is a bigshot plaintiffs' lawyer in the Chicago area who owns several minor league sports teams; I can definitely buy that he was never on need-based financial aid, even before he earned his schollie.) Puzzles me.

 

[Emcee77]

I found the same rule, and I agree that it appears to govern this situation, but I've always wondered whether this can be the whole story. I mean, do we have to conclude from this that guys like Connor Cavalaris, Tyler Plantz and Joe Schmidt are not on need-based financial aid? All three played special teams for us last year, and the staff wouldn't have done that if it made them automatic counters, would it? But ND is pretty expensive; aren't most people on some form of need-based financial aid? (Note that I'm not mentioning Salvi ... his dad is a bigshot plaintiffs' lawyer in the Chicago area who owns several minor league sports teams; I can definitely buy that he was never on need-based financial aid, even before he earned his schollie.) Puzzles me.

Wait a second, the more I think about this, the more I think that maybe it's not that crazy that Cavalaris, Plantz and Schmidt aren't on need-based financial aid. They are from Lake Forest, IL; Frankfort, IL; and Orange, CA, respectively. Those are all relatively well-to-do suburbs, as far as I know. Last year's PWO Eamon McCosker came from an L.A. private school and was headed to Penn before we stole him; he may be a rich kid, for all I know.

We know Dickerson has a rich uncle. Makes me wonder if we only offered him the PWO spot because we KNOW he DOESN'T need any financial aid. Just speculating, but ...

 

[NOLAIrish]

I found the same rule, and I agree that it appears to govern this situation, but I've always wondered whether this can be the whole story. I mean, do we have to conclude from this that guys like Connor Cavalaris, Tyler Plantz and Joe Schmidt are not on need-based financial aid? All three played special teams for us last year, and the staff wouldn't have done that if it made them automatic counters, would it? But ND is pretty expensive; aren't most people on some form of need-based financial aid? (Note that I'm not mentioning Salvi ... his dad is a bigshot plaintiffs' lawyer in the Chicago area who owns several minor league sports teams; I can definitely buy that he was never on need-based financial aid, even before he earned his schollie.) Puzzles me.

Sorry, I overlooked this thread the other day. I think there are a few possibilities going on here, as with most walk-ons. The big one is one what seems like a throw-away term from the bylaws: "recruited student-athlete." (As an aside: I'm assuming guys like Dickerson fall on the "recruited" side of the line, but that's a pure assumption).

Bylaw 13.02.11.2 describes 4 actions that convert a non-recruited student-athlete into a recruited one:
a) Providing an OV
b) Setting up and having an off-campus visit with the student or his family
c) Initiating more than one recruiting call with the student
d) Providing an NLI or written offer of athletics-based aid.

If none of those conditions are met, he'll have a separate set of rules applied to his status as a counter. 15.5.1.2 begins: "In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited by the awarding institution..." A non-recruited student-athlete will only ever count if he begins to receive athletics-related aid (or the university fails to properly certify that his other institutional aid was determined on a non-athletics basis). 15.5.6.3.4 covers that transition.

Other possibilities include: they're receiving non-institutional aid (many, but not all government aid programs fall into this category; obviously all parental contributions do as well); they're receiving exempted institutional aid (some forms of academics-based awards, as set forth in 15.02.6); they are only receiving an academic scholarship that complies with 15.5.1.2.2.

Here's a really nice figure in the bylaws that makes the counter rules really clear (the referenced bylaw includes all non-exempted institutional aid):

 

[Emcee77]

Ahh, great stuff NOLA. Now I feel like we are getting somewhere. I've always assumed that a PWO is a "recruited" player, but now that I really look at the definition of "recruited" it may be that they aren't, at least not all of them. I mean we could have brought in Dickerson with one recruiting call. Who knows.

And Plantz, I should say, was not a PWO and was certainly not recruited ... he only started playing football for us in the spring of 2011 when Roberson went down and the only healthy running backs left were Cierre and Jonas Gray, which made it necessary to look for walk-ons who could take reps at RB.

 

[Ironman8]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm not remotely interested in just being "good" <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23IrishMob">#IrishMob</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23NDFootball">#NDFootball</a> &#55356;&#57152;&#55356;&#57152;</p>— Marquis Dickerson (@TheFt_WorthStar) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFt_WorthStar/status/344551841599746049">June 11, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kak7304]

I found the same rule, and I agree that it appears to govern this situation, but I've always wondered whether this can be the whole story. I mean, do we have to conclude from this that guys like Connor Cavalaris, Tyler Plantz and Joe Schmidt are not on need-based financial aid? All three played special teams for us last year, and the staff wouldn't have done that if it made them automatic counters, would it? But ND is pretty expensive; aren't most people on some form of need-based financial aid? (Note that I'm not mentioning Salvi ... his dad is a bigshot plaintiffs' lawyer in the Chicago area who owns several minor league sports teams; I can definitely buy that he was never on need-based financial aid, even before he earned his schollie.) Puzzles me.

ND offers incredible need-based aid. I come from a blue collar family and my freshman year, ND offered $32,000 out of $36,000 or so in need-based aid before I ended up getting an academic scholarship. We're one of few schools whose profits from merchandising and athletics supports the students and we have a pretty solid scholarship fund.

 

[Redbar]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm not remotely interested in just being "good" <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23IrishMob">#IrishMob</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23NDFootball">#NDFootball</a> ����</p>— Marquis Dickerson (@TheFt_WorthStar) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFt_WorthStar/status/344551841599746049">June 11, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Never use the twitter machine, but might have to give this young man a follow. Love everything he has to say.