Will EEs result in more transfers?

[vmgsf]

Many outstanding high school football players want to enroll early. I think Notre Dame made the right decision in allowing early enrollment. But, the downside is that when some players on the team lower on the depth chart see outstanding new players at their position at spring practice, they conclude they will buried on the depth chart and decide they have to transfer to get some playing time. I am not happy to see Kiel, Neal and Ferguson transfer. But, my initial reaction without doing a lot of research, is that there are outstanding players who are early enrollees at their positions who are here and who are competing for playing time in the fall.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

ND has averaged five a year on average. Lynch left from two years ago, and he wasn't the first early to clock out, before Keil, I mean.) That hasn't upset the balance before now.

This year a lot of smart people think there were some really under-rated players in the class. Onwaulu, and Robinson come to mind. When people see their performances as the spring marches on, I believe it will remove all doubt. These guys are for real with a mind boggling level of maturity. Add Malik Zaire, and add Steve Elmer. Also add Mike Heurman. I don't ever remember a year with this kind of ready to go athleticism in early. Not only are all five EE's ready to climb the depth chart this year, that have the physicality and tools to really do so. That makes all of the difference in the world!

 

[CanadalovesND]

If upperclassmen and sophomores are worried about an incoming 17-18 year old freshman coming in and taking their spot on the depth chart, well, they'll just have to work even harder.

 

[rikkitikki08]

In my opinion i think the transfers have more to do with the depth chart before the EEs arrived on campus and less to do with the EEs themselves. Take a look at ND's spring depth chart, everyone on this board would have killed for that kind of depth under the willingham and weis years

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Transfers happen everywhere. Kids have their own agendas, and some arent ready to be a college athlete. Its the name of college football.

 

[rtrn2glory]

i think it's a legitimate question, but it goes back to the competition side of things and if you sign with a program like ND and don't expect to have to compete, then you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[BobD]

I've got a lot of faith in this coaching staff and feel that if these guys transferring were all that.....they wouldn't be transferring. Good luck to them, they're fine young men.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I agree with every post in the thread. Thinking about what linked them together, I still maintain that this group of EE's is remarkable.

I think the transfer saga is indeed started by the perfect storm, a lot of conditions from some kids readiness to play, to their goals, to the depth chart, to the whole class of '13, including the EE's.

But you know what? I believe BK has fine tuned who to get in on EE. He has it down to a science; this group is the right bunch down to the man. Now I say this knowing that AA was originally scheduled to be in the group.

But that brings up one point. As good of job as this coaching staff does recruiting, they can't ever know what is in the heart of hearts of a recruit, if the recruit doesn't want them. So, when it comes down to it, there is a time where the rubber meets the road; whose agenda is it going to be, players, coaches, or teams?

 

[kmoose]

To the original question............

No, I don't think it has anything to do with EE. These transfers all had one year on the team under their belt. If they were shocked by the level of competition, then they would have transferred in their FIRST spring, not their second. And, if it is just a case of being buried on the depth chart, in their second year, then EEing would have no bearing on that.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I feel like we are jumping to the conclusion that transfers are necessarily a bad thing too quickly, like it is a problem that needs to be eradicated and therefore we must find the cause. I don't mind seeing the transfers in general, although some clearly hurt more than others. It's like football natural selection. If a guy isn't going to play, or isn't going to be happy, then clearing his scholarship off the rolls and opening the spot up for someone else isn't the worst thing. We aren't ever going to purge the roster, but we shouldn't stand in the way if the roster wants to purge itself.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Sorry, I took the question to mean did this year's EE's force existing players to transfer. Keil was an EE, who else?

 

[kmoose]

Sorry, I took the question to mean did this year's EE's force existing players to transfer...

Ah, maybe that was the case.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Ah, maybe that was the case.

Who the eff knows? Hey V, if you meant this years EE's could you put "this years" in the title/question? Help us out; throw us a bone!


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[BGIF]

Many outstanding high school football players want to enroll early. I think Notre Dame made the right decision in allowing early enrollment. But, the downside is that when some players on the team lower on the depth chart see outstanding new players at their position at spring practice, they conclude they will buried on the depth chart and decide they have to transfer to get some playing time. I am not happy to see Kiel, Neal and Ferguson transfer. But, my initial reaction without doing a lot of research, is that there are outstanding players who are early enrollees at their positions who are here and who are competing for playing time in the fall.

Whether the incoming player arrrive in January or July doesn't make a difference to someone already down on the depth chart. An EE might accelerate an inevitable decision but the EE timing isn't an issue.

If Clausen had arrived in July, Jones and Frazer still would have transferred. Frazer transferred before the summer but Jones didn't. He got to start a game and then snuck out the back door during a semester and in-season when it was clearly apparent he was even the answer to a short term solution.

Kiel left because it became apparent he wasn't going to beat out Golson. He was not interested in anything but being #1. He wasn't interested in spending 3 years as a backup or waiting for an injury.

For the umpteenth time, Neal has a baby and his father clearly stated the "family" issue was the issue. His father noted the mother and baby considered moving to South Bend but that wasn't viable for them. There would still be no family support system in South Bend unless one of the new parent's moms relocated as well.

As for Ferguson, TheTurningPoint posted yesterday that neither Neal nor Ferguson left because of the depth chart. Why would he post that IF it was a depth chart issue?

Ferguson actually had seen the field unlike most freshman. Maybe the incoming class added to his concerns about the first South Bend winter he just experienced, or his classroom experience, maybe he grew tired of parietals, or realized like Neal he misses an old flame from back home.

Who knows besides what the two dads and TTP have offered?

Kiel dropped out of the program before Spring Ball began. Neal and Ferguson dropped out one week into practice.

The EE program isn't the problem.

 

[GBdomer]

transfers happen everywhere notice the recruitment's out of all the guys who have transferred besides Ferguson going back to Lynch. I think it will tell you something.

 

[P.Richards68]

To the OP: You worry too much. We're gonna get players no matter what. I live in Arkansas, and at the start of the Petrino era transfers skyrocketed during his tenure. Everyone(including the "reporters" )were freaked out until Petrino and the Hogs started racking up wins left and right. All that being said, I am a firm believer that this is just another step in the right direction up in South Bend. High transfers mean you have a surplus of talent at multiple position. It's a sign that we've arrived.

 

[IrishLion]

Whether the incoming player arrrive in January or July doesn't make a difference to someone already down on the depth chart. An EE might accelerate an inevitable decision but the EE timing isn't an issue.

If Clausen had arrived in July, Jones and Frazer still would have transferred. Frazer transferred before the summer but Jones didn't. He got to start a game and then snuck out the back door during a semester and in-season when it was clearly apparent he was even the answer to a short term solution.

Kiel left because it became apparent he wasn't going to beat out Golson. He was not interested in anything but being #1. He wasn't interested in spending 3 years as a backup or waiting for an injury.

For the umpteenth time, Neal has a baby and his father clearly stated the "family" issue was the issue. His father noted the mother and baby considered moving to South Bend but that wasn't viable for them. There would still be no family support system in South Bend unless one of the new parent's moms relocated as well.

As for Ferguson, TheTurningPoint posted yesterday that neither Neal nor Ferguson left because of the depth chart. Why would he post that IF it was a depth chart issue?

Ferguson actually had seen the field unlike most freshman. Maybe the incoming class added to his concerns about the first South Bend winter he just experienced, or his classroom experience, maybe he grew tired of parietals, or realized like Neal he misses an old flame from back home.

Who knows besides what the two dads and TTP have offered?

Kiel dropped out of the program before Spring Ball began. Neal and Ferguson dropped out one week into practice.

The EE program isn't the problem.

To be fair, and I'm not bashing TP's info at all, but TP also said that Neal wouldn't be transferring because of the kid, because "pregnancy is a nine month type of thing" that he knew about.

But then he did transfer.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To the opening question: No. That's all been explained above.

To Rhode's brilliant insight: Bravo! Reps if I could. The phenomenon of transfers FROM A HEALTHY ORGANIZATION is a very large net positive. It is our best chance to honorably optimize future recruiting cycle numbers and thereby ease pressure on the staff to not have to be so perfect.

To the EE thing generally: Kelly REALLY likes it, if the kid is ready for school too. He likes it for such obvious reasons football-wise that I won't bother to elaborate.

EE is a GOOD thing; and transfer is generally a good thing.

Hysteria, on the other hand, is a bad thing.

 

[stlnd01]

Hard to see how depth chart - and therefore EEs - would have been an issue for Neal. Guy was a likely starter. Same with Lynch last year.
Maybe Ferguson was so blown away by the arrival of Onwualu that he went running back to Florida, but you like to think these kids have a little more heart than that.
Kiel's a different story, of course. But again, if Malik Zaire scares you off, maybe you're better off elsewhere.
EE's ain't the reason why we have transfers nearly so much as academics, culture, geography, etc. And as several pointed out, transfers can be a good thing (though they're not always a good thing).

I do wonder, though, if our national recruiting makes us more susceptible to departures. I mean, both Lynch and Neal left ostensibly b/c of relationships with girls/family back home, relationships that might have been easier if they weren't so far away. And the kids who seem most likely to transfer are the ones from distant, warm-weather locales.
Nothing we can do about that, I suppose, but something to keep in mind. And good reason to keep a close eye on Eddie V, Redfield, Bryant, Folston, Cole Luke... (not to generalize of course, for every Lynch and Neal, there's a Te'o and Nix)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It will be interesting to watch the careers of all from Lynch to Prestwood; from Ferguson to Neal!

 

[Cackalacky]

Here are a few things I have heard or gleamed from interviews from BK:

1. He wants an SEC-type team
2. He has to work within the confines of ND Admissions
3. He is landing the players he wants
4. He wants as many EEs as he can get because it is an advantage
5. He wants as many 5th years as he can get because it is an advantage
6. He has put the "next man in" attitude in place
7. He has in place a winning mentality
8. He is not worried about losing transfers
9. He is developing said players (much more so than Weis did)
10. He is getting versatile and dynamic players with high upside
11. and most importantly, BK, Diaco, Alford, and others on the coaching staff are learning how to coach at an elite level just like the kids.

That being said, the reason I trust BK, is through all of this he had never wavered in what he has said he thinks has to happen in order to compete nationally. I am less worried about transfers than I used to be with Kelly, mainly for the above. If we are getting kids in early, and they are ready to beat out someone older, so be it. Competition is great. Eventually you get to a culture of competition where the kids are constantly trying to improve in order to hold on to their spot and the next man in can't wait to get in to show Coach what he can do..... I see that translating from "Maybe I had better do an extra set of reps?" or "Maybe I better run an extra mile today?" to " I am gonna run an extra mile today" or I am going to do and extra set of reps."