**Notre Dame Combine Invitees: Results & Analysis**

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Where are the people that always say 'just wait until he goes through Longo's program'?

I've always questioned why everyone sings Longo's praises. I don't buy his conditioning it far superior to every other program's, I mean, did you see the Alabama game? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's good at what he does and I don't think he's 'bad' at his job, but I see nothing special.

I don't understand what you are basing this on? Motta and Te'o always looked slow on the field. I'm not shocked by their times. Longo simply can't make 4.9 guys run into the 4.6's. It doesn't work that way.

Alabama was one game. We were 12-0 prior and held own own against teams that used to punch us in the mouth (Stanford, MSU et al). We are still building.
 

WakeUpEchoes

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I understand what Kuehnja was saying, and I'm as upset with anyone that our boys haven't performed up to as expected in the combine. I wish I had an explanation besides pointing to their talent ceiling, but I don't.
 
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koonja

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I don't understand what you are basing this on? Motta and Te'o always looked slow on the field. I'm not shocked by their times. Longo simply can't make 4.9 guys run into the 4.6's. It doesn't work that way.

Alabama was one game. We were 12-0 prior and held own own against teams that used to punch us in the mouth (Stanford, MSU et al). We are still building.

What is your take on Longo?
 

irishpat183

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If this coaching staff can take a bunch of "slow" position players and go undefeated, I can't wait to see the success we will have with the players we are bringing in now!

Yeah, but for years we've been saying "just wait until ______ gets ahold of this class".


So it always seems that we're waiting until they get ahold of better players.


And Longo is overrated. He's done some good things, but you still have to recruit the kids with the natural ablity to begin with.

And that's for all strength and conditioning coaches. We put too much stock into what they can actually do with a kid. (I guess it's kinda our fault)

If that makes any sense
 

irishpat183

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I don't understand what you are basing this on? Motta and Te'o always looked slow on the field. I'm not shocked by their times. Longo simply can't make 4.9 guys run into the 4.6's. It doesn't work that way.

Alabama was one game. We were 12-0 prior and held own own against teams that used to punch us in the mouth (Stanford, MSU et al). We are still building.

True...but I'd argue those teams are just as slow.

If we want to be champions, we have to be able to run with the teams like Bama. We know we can play with the Stanfords and MSU's. already.
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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EXCELLENT
TE Tyler Eifert (6-5, 250 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.68 seconds (5 of 16)
Bench Press: 22 reps (3 of 16)
Vertical Jump: 35.5 (3 of 15)

GOOD
RB Cierre Wood (5-11, 213 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.56 seconds (14 of 33)
Bench Press: 16 (27 of 31)
Vertical Jump: 37.5 inches (4 of 32)

AVERAGE
OL Braxston Cave (6-3, 303 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 5.33 seconds (T-33 of 50)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 25.5 (T-26 of 44)


NEEDED TO DO BETTER
LB Manti Te’o (6-1, 241 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.82 (20 of 26)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 33.0 (T-8 of 20)

RB Theo Riddick (5-10, 201 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.68 seconds (T-20 of 33)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 32.0 inches (T-21 of 32)


YIKES
S Zeke Motta (6-2, 213 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.83 seconds (53 of 53)
Bench Press: 11 reps (T-40 out of 49) (Lowest Safety)
Vertical Jump: 35.5 inches (T-23 of 51)
 
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irishpat183

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EXCELLENT
TE Tyler Eifert (6-5, 250 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.68 seconds (5 of 16)
Bench Press: 22 reps (3 of 16)
Vertical Jump: 35.5 (3 of 15)

GOOD
RB Cierre Wood (5-11, 213 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.56 seconds (14 of 33)
Bench Press: 16 (27 of 31)
Vertical Jump: 37.5 inches (4 of 32)

AVERAGE
OL Braxston Cave (6-3, 303 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 5.33 seconds (T-33 of 50)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 25.5 (T-26 of 44)


NEEDED TO DO BETTER
LB Manti Te’o (6-1, 241 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.82 (20 of 26)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 33.0 (T-8 of 20)

RB Theo Riddick (5-10, 201 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.68 seconds (T-20 of 33)
Bench Press: DNP
Vertical Jump: 32.0 inches (T-21 of 32)


YIKES

S Zeke Motta (6-2, 213 pounds)
Forty-Yard Dash: 4.83 seconds (53 of 53)
Bench Press: 11 reps (T-40 out of 49)
Vertical Jump: 35.5 inches (T-23 of 51)

Put on 30lbs Zeke and play linebacker.

Wait, he'd still be slow for a backer. LOL
 

Whiskeyjack

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From NBC's Keith Arnold-- Combine shows the Irish still have plenty of work to do:

Think a 28-point defeat in the National Championship game put a little fuel in the tanks of the Fighting Irish as they prepare for 2013?

Well the NFL Combine did as well. If the annual meat market showed anything this week it’s that the Irish’s very best players still have a ways to go before they stack up apples-to-apples athletically with the elite of college football.

That doesn’t mean the 2012 Irish have anything to be ashamed of. Nor does it mean the professional careers of guys like Manti Te’o, Zeke Motta or Theo Riddick are sunk before they even begin. (Contrary to many public opinions that believe three days in shorts outweighs a collegiate career on the field.) But if you’re looking for something that’ll help push Notre Dame in these tough offseason months, it’s the realization that the Irish’s best players unequivocally need to get bigger, stronger and faster.

That’s not news to Brian Kelly.

“There’s no tricks. There’s no gimmicks,” Kelly said in the run-up to the national championship game. “It’s going to be basic fundamental football when you get to this level. I think it was just a maturation and a development of our football team to get bigger, stronger, faster, and then have a will. That’s been the process for us at Notre Dame.”

It was clear on January 7 that the Irish weren’t there yet. It’s also clear that after this week in Indianapolis, that the process continues.

In many ways, it makes Kelly and the Irish coaching staff’s accomplishments all the more impressive in 2012. Say what you want about a schedule that didn’t live up to its hefty billing, but the Irish squeezed every bit of efficiency out of last year’s football team, doing so while rebooting the offense with a redshirt freshman quarterback, a patchwork secondary, and an offensive line that had to break in two new starters with zero depth behind it.

The Combine also told us things we’ve known all along. For all the shake Theo Riddick has, he was never a burner. Braxston Cave, while physically stout, is limited athletically. Zeke Motta, someone Irish fans always thought had the size to be a linebacker, also turns out to run like one. And Manti Te’o's excellence is much easier stated on the football field, not running around in shorts or answering off-the-field questions. While 12-0 can erase a lot of weaknesses, confirmation bias can only take you so far.

The silver lining in all of this? It appears many of the reasons Notre Dame hired Brian Kelly were also on display last season. While Kelly hasn’t turned out to be the up-tempo, spread offense innovator that many thought the Irish were getting, he was much more last season — program building his way to unprecedented heights with a team that probably wasn’t ready for primetime.

The strategy used to get there, the reliance on Tyler Eifert as a one-on-one match-up weapon, the showcasing of Theo Riddick as a dependable cog in the run game, and the usage of Manti Te’o as a one-man army in the middle of the defense proved, all likely trumped the personnel that the Irish are still committed to building.

And that personnel is improving. Turning Jamoris Slaughter, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Cierre Wood, Theo Riddick and Zeke Motta into players that get invited to the Combine is a sign that things in South Bend are progressing. In years past, guys of that ilk — especially on an underperforming Notre Dame team — got one look from NFL scouts, and that’s at the Irish pro day.

With building blocks like Louis Nix and Stephon Tuitt on defense, high end athletes like George Atkinson and DaVaris Daniels as playmakers, and an intriguing two-way threat at quarterback in Everett Golson, with some elite young talent pushing him along, there’s reason to believe that last year was more of a sign of things to come as opposed to a smoke and mirrors act.

But until then, there’s work to be done.
 
K

koonja

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Whiskey thanks for the article. So true that BK and the staff is really coaching their butts off, if we can get to the NC game with the athletes we currently have.
 

irishpat183

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"The Combine also told us things we’ve known all along. For all the shake Theo Riddick has, he was never a burner. Braxston Cave, while physically stout, is limited athletically. Zeke Motta, someone Irish fans always thought had the size to be a linebacker, also turns out to run like one. And Manti Te’o's excellence is much easier stated on the football field, not running around in shorts or answering off-the-field questions. While 12-0 can erase a lot of weaknesses, confirmation bias can only take you so far."

Great paragraph.
 

BeauBenken

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Where are the people that always say 'just wait until he goes through Longo's program'?

I've always questioned why everyone sings Longo's praises. I don't buy his conditioning it far superior to every other program's, I mean, did you see the Alabama game? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's good at what he does and I don't think he's 'bad' at his job, but I see nothing special.

Time and time again, we have had to talk about how Longo's training doesn't prep somebody for the combine.

He would rather some one go 10 sets of 3 than 3 sets of 10 because football plays don't last that long. It builds a different kind of muscle endurance than is typically thought of. Instead of being able to lift for long times, you recuperate quickly. Your body is trained to maximize for short amounts of time, and then recuperate quickly.

As for speed training, that's an entirely different beast all together. Many things affect how fast someone can run the 40. Most of it is technique and god given ability.
 
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What is your take on Longo?

My take is that he is doing a superb job. Coming in, he was best known for his players having late game toughness and shining in the 4th quarter. We have achieved that, haven't we? We have come a really long way physically as a team since he came aboard. Don't forget the fact that we had guys losing 30 pounds during the season and getting blown off the ball by Navy when he came in. Building physical strength is a process (unless certain chemicals are involved) and what I have seen is a steady growth of football program into big, physical, nasty team that CW originally promised 8 years ago. BK and Longo are delivering it. Then, we ran into Bama and were showed there is still work to be done.

This work of making an elite level team that wins the NC was not be accomplished by the likes of Golic Jr., Motta, Spond, Fox, Calabrese who , with all due respect, have physical limits. I think we can safely say he got a lot out of these guys. However, his real work will tested in the next couple of years be in developing the Tuitt, Nix, BJax, Redfield, Vanderdoes, Smith and the incoming OL class.

The question is whether he is able to get this new influx of high athletic talent into the Bama stratosphere. I'll bet he can based on the growth I have seen thus far.
 
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koonja

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My take is that he is doing a superb job. Coming in, he was best known for his players having late game toughness and shining in the 4th quarter. We have achieved that, haven't we? We have come a really long way physically as a team since he came aboard. Don't forget the fact that we had guys losing 30 pounds during the season and getting blown off the ball by Navy when he came in. Building physical strength is a process (unless certain chemicals are involved) and what I have seen is a steady growth of football program into big, physical, nasty team that CW originally promised 8 years ago. BK and Longo are delivering it. Then, we ran into Bama and were showed there is still work to be done.

This work of making an elite level team that wins the NC was not be accomplished by the likes of Golic Jr., Motta, Spond, Fox, Calabrese who , with all due respect, have physical limits. I think we can safely say he got a lot out of these guys. However, his real work will tested in the next couple of years be in developing the Tuitt, Nix, BJax, Redfield, Vanderdoes, Smith and the incoming OL class.

The question is whether he is able to get this new influx of high athletic talent into the Bama stratosphere. I'll bet he can based on the growth I have seen thus far.

I agree with that. What I don't see any improvement from the team, as a whole, in becoming faster. Just my opinion. I think he's a good S&C coach, but I don't think he's a world beater; there are better ones out there, IMO.
 

phgreek

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No argument here...work to do for the guys still at ND.

I love what these kids at the combine did with the gifts God gave them...Yes I was shocked at some 40 times, quite honestly. However, that tells me Kelly and Diaco did a pretty good job...and these guys sold out to the "plan", and gave everything they had. It tells me they have pretty good football IQs and instincts too...and I think each will get an opportunity to grind it out at the next level...

No matter what Sundays bring, these were the ones who had the combination of character, brains, and ability to reverse the culture...finally.
 

irishpat183

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No argument here...work to do for the guys still at ND.

I love what these kids at the combine did with the gifts God gave them...Yes I was shocked at some 40 times, quite honestly. However, that tells me Kelly and Diaco did a pretty good job...and these guys sold out to the "plan", and gave everything they had. It tells me they have pretty good football IQs and instincts too...and I think each will get an opportunity to grind it out at the next level...

No matter what Sundays bring, these were the ones who had the combination of character, brains, and ability to reverse the culture...finally.

I agree with most of what you said. And I'll add on that it shows, when facing the elite teams, you can't win with just a great scheme anymore (Diacos' bend but don't break is worthless against top teams with elite talent). You must have the athletes.

Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen from time to time...but there is a reason that the SEC has won the last 7.


We're headed in the rigth direction. The NCG was a wake up call. We're not there just yet. But with guys like Redfield, Bryant, Vanderdoes, Smith......We're on our way, in a hurry.
 
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I agree with that. What I don't see any improvement from the team, as a whole, in becoming faster. Just my opinion. I think he's a good S&C coach, but I don't think he's a world beater; there are better ones out there, IMO.

Well, our team speed is better IMO. But, thats more mentality and coaching. I think speed is a tough thing to teach. As I previosuly mentioned, its impossible to turn a 4.90 forty time person into a 4.65 guy. It's not happening. But, taking him down into the 4.76-4.79 would be an incredible accomplishment if you were also able to make him add weight and get physically stronger.

I think Jayon Smith who runs a 4.55 (I believe this was his true time??) and weighs about 210 will be an interesting Longo experiment.

What are your thoughts on Harrison Smiths develpoment under Longo?
 
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Rocket89

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10-1 in November since 2010.

105 defensive rushing yards per game in 2012.

4 players with All-American status.

Longo's proven he's one of the best in the business. He's a S&C coach, not a track coach by the way.
 

phgreek

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I agree with most of what you said. And I'll add on that it shows, when facing the elite teams, you can't win with just a great scheme anymore (Diacos' bend but don't break is worthless against top teams with elite talent). You must have the athletes.

Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen from time to time...but there is a reason that the SEC has won the last 7.


We're headed in the rigth direction. The NCG was a wake up call. We're not there just yet. But with guys like Redfield, Bryant, Vanderdoes, Smith......We're on our way, in a hurry.

Agreed...but I do think the combination of character, and brains allows for a little less speed/talent. I don't think we'll ever get in a "star war" with Bama. For obvious reasons ND won't do some things SEC teams do...not an excuse...reality. Nevertheless...If ND continues to put together 3-4 ranked clases...I am confident we'll beat SEC teams. As you said...heading in the right direction
 

Sherm Sticky

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What do you guys think BJax will run next year at the combine? I'm thinking in the 4.5 range.
 

Walter White

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I agree with most of what you said. And I'll add on that it shows, when facing the elite teams, you can't win with just a great scheme anymore (Diacos' bend but don't break is worthless against top teams with elite talent). You must have the athletes.

Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen from time to time...but there is a reason that the SEC has won the last 7.


We're headed in the rigth direction. The NCG was a wake up call. We're not there just yet. But with guys like Redfield, Bryant, Vanderdoes, Smith......We're on our way, in a hurry.

I agree with everything except the bend but don't break. I still think it is a formidable defense when it has great talent.

Alabama beat us because we were young and inexperienced in the secondary. We were all year and that's part of the reason we were so simple in our scheme. Once we get more seniority in our safety and cornerback positions and more athletic in the linebacking core we will be able to afford more flexibility and looks while still being conservative. Stay conservative but have more formations. Stand firm and pounce at the most opportune time. Diaco has a lot to work on defensively. Luckily we have the talent coming in to support this transition.

Max Redfield, Jaylon Smith, Eddie Vanderdoes, Isaac Rochell, and Cole Luke will be critical. The progression of Spond, Okwara, Councell, Grace, Ishaq, and the whole secondary in terms of football intelligence is of the utmost importance this off-season.

Go Irish. Onward to victory!
 

Sherm Sticky

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David Amerson with a 4.38 and 4.47. I really wish he had come to ND.
I'm thinking he will be a late riser. Height, weight, speed guy. I think teams will look at his 2011 film again and compare it to the 2012 film and see he was jumping routes for picks in 2012. Which is why he got beat so bad this past year. Saying all that, I still think he might have to move inside to safety in the NFL.

I wouldn't mind a certain team sitting at #31 who needs a corner and a safety to take him.
 

ND NYC

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getting caught up here...

is Cave hurt?---why no beanch press?---he's a beast in the weight room...what happened there?

rememeber seeing manti had a shoulder injury thats why he didnt do the bench right?
u guys think that had any impact on his 40?

is zeke injured too? how does he only do that many reps? kids jacked wth happened there?

did riddick pull a hammy on his first 40?

most important--do we know if these guys were injured before during or after the NCG?
 

Sherm Sticky

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getting caught up here...

is Cave hurt?---why no beanch press?---he's a beast in the weight room...what happened there?

rememeber seeing manti had a shoulder injury thats why he didnt do the bench right?
u guys think that had any impact on his 40?

is zeke injured too? how does he only do that many reps? kids jacked wth happened there?

did riddick pull a hammy on his first 40?

most important--do we know if these guys were injured before during or after the NCG?
I can tell you that Riddick pulled a hamstring during his first 40 run.
 

IrishLion

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I agree with that. What I don't see any improvement from the team, as a whole, in becoming faster. Just my opinion. I think he's a good S&C coach, but I don't think he's a world beater; there are better ones out there, IMO.

I disagree, I believe the speed that BK has recruited simply hasn't seen the field much yet.

GAIII - self explanatory
Chris Brown - see above
Davonte Neal - hasn't had a chance in the open field yet (muffed a punt against Pitt that would've been returned for a TD though)
Tuitt - that's S-E-C speed on a 300 pounder
KeiVarae Russell - chased down Woods?Lee? against USC in the open field, ultimately saving a TD.

The speed is getting better as a whole, but it's difficult to see it as a "whole" because they young guys are still developing.

Charlie Weis had Tate. And that was about it. Oh, and Zbikowski could run pretty well too.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Motta's official time is 4.83. Slower than Manti's.
Interesting I just watched both of Motta runs and I thought he looked faster running than Manti did in his two runs.

I'm pulling for Zeke to have a kick a** 40 at pro day.
 

Junkhead

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Interesting I just watched both of Motta runs and I thought he looked faster running than Manti did in his two runs.

I'm pulling for Zeke to have a kick a** 40 at pro day.

Football smarts> 40 time, but......Manti ran a 4.82 and Motta a 4.83? Manti was almost 30lbs more. What seems to be ignored is that Manti ran a damn good 10yd split, which shows explosiveness to the ball. We all watched every game, and are no more or less expert than many of the so-called experts. I never thought Manti was slow, maybe just had average speed. Motta has always had his speed questioned, maybe for good reason. Football instincts are far more important than absolute foot speed. High School football 40 times are part of the problem. For example, Harrison Smith "supposedly" ran a 4.38 in HS, and after 4 years of conditioning in a major BCS program, ran a 4.57 at the combine. He was still a first round pick due to other factors.
 

Whiskeyjack

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What do you guys think BJax will run next year at the combine? I'm thinking in the 4.5 range.

He's allegedly one of the fastest guys on the team. Ran track with the Atkinson brothers and one other player who's name currently escapes me.

I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least in the 4.4 range. Might end up lower.
 
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