Who is Likely Next (2013)

[rtrn2glory]

And they are still recruiting other kids. I don't get it.

no frickin kidding how is this possible/legal!!!???

 

[ndfb3]

I think Lucci may have been on the right track. Texas A&M has 34 commits right now, don't they? OU needs a few of those.

How do these schools get away with this? 34? Thought the max was 25 per class. SEC rules I guess.

 

[jimmymac]

Has anyone else noticed that OL seem to commit earlier in the process than any other position group?

I think that's true because of the inherent qualities of an offensive lineman. They don't need the flash and attention that the skill players need in recruiting, just like how they don't need attention during games.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

How do these schools get away with this? 34? Thought the max was 25 per class. SEC rules I guess.

They'll just plain cut the scrubs, "insist" on medical scholly's, all of a sudden take a cut throat stance on team rule violations (especially if you are an under-performer & there is a highly rated recruit looking to take your spot), gray shirt the ones that don't have a strong familial presence to steer them away from snakes etc etc..

There are too many loopholes that basically allow the SEC coaches to construct their roster as a NFL GM would.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think Lucci may have been on the right track. Texas A&M has 34 commits right now, don't they? OU needs a few of those.

Is there a limit on EE's? For example, is it possible that TAM may have 9 EEs count for last year's class and then they'd be full at 25 for this year? I've never been clear on the rules for this.

 

[Emcee77]

Is there a limit on EE's? For example, is it possible that TAM may have 9 EEs count for last year's class and then they'd be full at 25 for this year? I've never been clear on the rules for this.

Yeah, that's my understanding. To be able to take 34 guys, 9 would have to EE, and TAMU could have taken no more than 16 non-EEs last year. They only took 18 guys total last year, so, without knowing how many EEed but assuming a couple might have, 34 is feasible for 2013 if at least 9 of those can EE (seems unlikely ...) . Plus they can always greyshirt guys if they have to. After all, this is the SEC.

 

[ndfb3]

Yeah, that's my understanding. To be able to take 34 guys, 9 would have to EE, and TAMU could have taken no more than 16 non-EEs last year. They only took 18 guys total last year, so, without knowing how many EEed but assuming a couple might have, 34 is feasible for 2013 if at least 9 of those can EE (seems unlikely ...) . Plus they can always greyshirt guys if they have to. After all, this is the SEC.

Greyshirt = Shady

 

[ShakeDown]

Is there a limit on EE's? For example, is it possible that TAM may have 9 EEs count for last year's class and then they'd be full at 25 for this year? I've never been clear on the rules for this.

I'm under the impression that everything revolves around the magic number, 85.

EEs can count to words last years numbers. Hypothetically if you had a roster of 76 the year before I believe you could take 9, have them count against last years 85, and still sign a "full" class of 25. Of course again providing that your current roster was meeting the magic number 85.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

IIRC, the one decent 'Bama fan who posts here stated that SEC rules limit them to 28 per class. So 6 EEs + 25 commits + 3 borderline qualifiers = 34.

 

[ShakeDown]

IIRC, the one decent 'Bama fan who posts here stated that SEC rules limit them to 28 per class. So 6 EEs + 25 commits + 3 borderline qualifiers = 34.

I forgot about that "rule" Whiskey. Good look.

 

[Emcee77]

I'm under the impression that everything revolves around the magic number, 85.

EEs can count to words last years numbers. Hypothetically if you had a roster of 76 the year before I believe you could take 9, have them count against last years 85, and still sign a "full" class of 25. Of course again providing that your current roster was meeting the magic number 85.

Not sure about this. My understanding was that there are two independent requirements: 1) sign no more than 25 new players per year, and 2) have no more than 85 guys on scholarship each August. For purposes of the 25/year requirement, EEs count against the prior year's 25.

But the 85 max requirement is different ... if you signed 25 guys three years in a row, in the fourth year you could still sign 25 again ... but you'd have to find a way to cut 15 guys between signing day and the start of fall camp in August, because you gotta be at 85 by then.

btw, I just checked and TAMU did not have anyone EE last year, so only 7 of their 34 can EE this year. Not sure how they will make it work (ahem ... greyshirt).

EDIT: just saw Whiskey's post that the per-year requirement is 28 in the SEC, not 25. So now it works out.

 

[ShakeDown]

Not sure about this. My understanding was that there are two independent requirements: 1) sign no more than 25 new players per year, and 2) have no more than 85 guys on scholarship each August. For purposes of the 25/year requirement, EEs count against the prior year's 25.

But the 85 max requirement is different ... if you signed 25 guys three years in a row, in the fourth year you could still sign 25 again ... but you'd have to find a way to cut 18 guys between signing day and the start of fall camp in August, because you gotta be at 85 by then.

btw, I just checked and TAMU did not have anyone EE last year, so only 7 of their 34 can EE this year. Not sure how they will make it work (ahem ... greyshirt).

EDIT: just saw Whiskey's post that the per-year requirement is 28 in the SEC, not 25. So now it works out.

I'm actually not 100% sure either as far as EEs count toward last year's 25. I thought they counted against only the 85. What you're saying makes sense.

 

[ShakeDown]

NCAA 2012-2013 Div. 1 Manual

Pages 215 and 216 for those interested.

I think an EE just counts against the 85.

 

[Emcee77]

NCAA 2012-2013 Div. 1 Manual

Pages 215 and 216 for those interested.

Thanks for posting. Interesting note: I only glanced at this fairly quickly, but I read the rule to say that the 25/year requirement is NCAA mandated, not conference mandated. So I don't know how the SEC could take 28 when the rest of the NCAA has to take 25. That Bama fan must have been full of it.

I think an EE just counts against the 85.

Here are the relevant rules:

15.5.6.1 Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] There shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of initial counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1) and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including initial counters) in football at each institution.

15.5.6.3.2 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering After Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.8) by the awarding institution who enters after the first term of the academic year and immediately receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) shall be an initial counter for either the current academic year (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or the next academic year. The student-athlete shall be included in the institution’s total counter limit during the academic year in which the aid was first received.

An "initial counter" is someone new to the program, I gather; i.e., someone who newly counts toward the 85 max schollie limit. It's clear from the underlined sentence that EEs can count toward the limit of 25 "initial counters" either in the academic year in which they enroll or in the following academic year, the year in which the rest of their class enrolls. The bolded sentence indicates that EEs also count toward the 85 max limit in the year that they enroll. Seems like that would be hard to do most years, as most teams will generally be at or near the 85 limit heading into the season each fall, unless some of the EEs count as "midyear replacements" for midyear graduates or graduated 5th years:

15.5.6.3.5 Midyear Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A counter who graduates at midyear or who graduates during the previous academic year (including summer) may be replaced by an initial counter, who shall be counted against the initial limit either for the year in which the aid is awarded (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or for the following academic year, or by a student-athlete who was an initial counter in a previous academic year and is returning to the institution after time spent on active duty in the armed services or on an official religious mission. In bowl subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year to the maximum number of overall counters (85 total counters). In championship subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year that equals the maximum number of overall equivalencies or overall counters.

Kind of interesting. Or maybe I'm just a big nerd for rules.

 

[ShakeDown]

Thanks for posting. Interesting note: I only glanced at this fairly quickly, but I read the rule to say that the 25/year requirement is NCAA mandated, not conference mandated. So I don't know how the SEC could take 28 when the rest of the NCAA has to take 25. That Bama fan must have been full of it.

Perhaps they are including EEs in the 28 rule?

An "initial counter" is someone new to the program, I gather; i.e., someone who newly counts toward the 85 max schollie limit. It's clear from the underlined sentence that EEs can count toward the limit of 25 "initial counters" either in the academic year in which they enroll or in the following academic year, the year in which the rest of their class enrolls. The bolded sentence indicates that EEs also count toward the 85 max limit in the year that they enroll.

Yessir this sounds right and makes sense. I just breezed through the rules myself, so I just straight up missed the initial counter piece.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Thanks for the info. I had forgotten about the 28 max for the SEC. Makes sense to me.

 

[irishfan]

I don't know anything about the situation, but there is a good chance that not all of those 34 guys listed are actually "commits." Ole Miss had this problem with Ed O a few years ago where they had something like 32 guys listed on Rivals/Scout as commitments, but they had already dropped ~10 of them because of grades. Other SEC schools were using the 32 number to neg recruit them, and its not like Ed O could call up one of the recruiting sites and tell them that not all 32 guys were actually commitments. Could be a similar situation here. Guess we'll find out on NSD.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't know anything about the situation, but there is a good chance that not all of those 34 guys listed are actually "commits." Ole Miss had this problem with Ed O a few years ago where they had something like 32 guys listed on Rivals/Scout as commitments, but they had already dropped ~10 of them because of grades. Other SEC schools were using the 32 number to neg recruit them, and its not like Ed O could call up one of the recruiting sites and tell them that not all 32 guys were actually commitments. Could be a similar situation here. Guess we'll find out on NSD.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a "problem" - or maybe it's just one of A&M's making - but recruiting's such a fluid process, and the reporting on it so dicey, that I'd think this happens all the time.

The recruiting services get most of their information from people on the players' side of the equation - players, families, coaches, etc. So they hear mostly through that filter. I'm sure the better reporters have on-background sources inside the programs who'll confirm stuff, but they're not likely going to be told anything official about A&M's real plans for these 34 (or more!) kids, some of whom may well intend to go there but will find out this summer that they're "better off" at Waco Junior College or something. Nor are the recruiting services going to jump to report that a kid may not make it academically. They have no real way of knowing.

FWIW, this happens with us, too, if on a smaller scale. Look at the Jamel James situation. 247, IIRC held off for several days on reporting him as a commit, perhaps because Sapp's a good reporter, likely with some sources in the program, who may have suggested he was borderline academically. Now he's still listed as a commit pretty much everywhere, but the general consensus is he's gone because of academic concerns.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The 28 rule is now 25. SEC oversigning: SEC oversigning curbed by rule changed capping classes at 25 - Orlando Sentinel

 

[ALLGATOR]

Yeah, that's my understanding. To be able to take 34 guys, 9 would have to EE, and TAMU could have taken no more than 16 non-EEs last year. They only took 18 guys total last year, so, without knowing how many EEed but assuming a couple might have, 34 is feasible for 2013 if at least 9 of those can EE (seems unlikely ...) . Plus they can always greyshirt guys if they have to. After all, this is the SEC.

Well they have 8 guys that plan on EE so far and JUCO national signing day is coming up, I assume if they get another JUCO that person will EE as well. So it seems rather likely.

Sezer
Flowers
Stuckey
Clear
Points
Chavis
Wade
Williams

Georgia has 17 EE this year

 

[Grahambo]

Sapp:

Touted DB no longer on #NotreDame radar, key official visitor for USC this weekend & what it means for #Irish (VIP) Touted DB no longer on the Irish radar

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sapp:

Touted DB no longer on #NotreDame radar, key official visitor for USC this weekend & what it means for #Irish (VIP) Touted DB no longer on the Irish radar

Assuming it's either Willis or Mac. If so, not really a surprise considering the staff stopped actively recruiting them a long time ago...

 

[Ironman8]

Assuming it's either Willis or Mac. If so, not really a surprise considering the staff stopped actively recruiting them a long time ago...

Willis.

Most important part of that update is the news that McQuay will be at USC this weekend and could very well give his pledge to the Trojans.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Willis.

Most important part of that update is the news that McQuay will be at USC this weekend and could very well give his pledge to the Trojans.

vandy no longer in the picture for mcquay??

 

[Grahambo]

Willis.

Most important part of that update is the news that McQuay will be at USC this weekend and could very well give his pledge to the Trojans.

Would that give even more evidence Redfield to ND?

 

[Luckylucci]

I do think that would be the nail in the coffin for USC with Redfield. Already confident we were going to land him but I think that would definitely do it.

 

[Emcee77]

vandy no longer in the picture for mcquay??

No, Vandy is still in the mix, but McQuay has always had strong USC interest and apparently Kiffin blew him away on his in-home.

 

[Ironman8]

Would that give even more evidence Redfield to ND?

Possibly so.

 

[Irish YJ]

Let's not forget,,,, all is well...

 

[Emcee77]

The update also said that we are still in touch with L.J. Moore. We'll push for him only if we don't get Redfield, I guess.