On that note, Elliot seems to have done a good job everywhere he's been.
'13 DC ATH Devin Butler (Notre Dame Signed LOI)
- Thread starter GoldenIsThyFame
- Start date
On that note, Elliot seems to have done a good job everywhere he's been.
Old Man Mike
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I decided to look a little closer at CBs.
1). The average height of an NFL corner is just a touch under six feet. This is also true of Pro-bowl corners from the last decade. It is true that NFL coaches would like for their corners to be bigger, but those corners must first be able to really run, and, at least as importantly, really shift hips to change directions.
2). Of the top 15 rated NFL corners four weigh in the 180s and the rest in the 190s. These men are mainly in their late twenties or older [amazing how many real veterans there are] and gradually grew into their heavier weights, but did so without losing speed and shiftiness. Theoretically, one might get to the heavier weights faster in life through special training methods, but it is a risk to the alternate higher valued CB traits.
3). When looking at college corners of 2012, there are many ratings. Whether looking at the "top eleven" [as one service did], or Phil Steele's Top 70 [I added the Honey Badger to his list of 69, as he hadn't seen Mathieu coming quite yet], or the top draft prospects list of 31 [guys actually drafted], you see differences but it is roughly in the same ballpark across the board. The mean weight of an elite college corner is 189/190. This means that 190 and up is fine for some to carry, and 180s and down is fine for others in a 50/50 split. That says to me that the weight issue must be less important to actual corner play than the previously mentioned speed and change-of-direction factors.
4). College and pro football are getting bigger, no question about it. Because of the trend towards big receivers [cue general Kelly recruiting], the corners will have to be big to defend. In this transition to greater size, their mass is not the first issue of concern. The first issue of concern is their "length". They have to have enough height [Translation: long arms to cover the immediate space] and explosiveness [translation: to rise or rip into the line-of-flight of the ball] to compete with their big opponent at the moment of truth. Although "muscle" comes into this latter issue, it is not necessarily mass that we are looking for.
5). Muscle mass and thereby "weight" could be conceived as a variable relating to "physicalness" at the point of collision --- i.e. tackling or warding off blocks. Frankly, all manner of good tackling corners exist without being massive specimens. Tackling is an art best pursued by avoiding blockers rather than taking them on. Of course corners can use whatever "improvements" they can acquire, but never at the sacrifice of the tiniest bit of their speed and coverage abilities. Taking on blockers they must do occasionally, but it is not what they are "hired" to do.
6). The best pair of corners in the nation last year were the LSU corners Claiborne and Mathieu. For my own money the best overall corner in the nation was Jayron Hosley of Virginia Tech. None of these guys weighed 190, and Hosley's CB buddy didn't either [Hosley weighed 177]. I mention VT because they generate more great corners consistently than anyone.
Will we need to get massive corners as we go on through the 21st century? Football seems to be getting bigger and bigger so maybe. But the littler blur of a player is resurging offensively a la both Kelly's "tricks" [slots and sudden backfield flankers etc] , so that equally blurry CB seems safe to me in his job.
My addition to our collegial discussion.
1). The average height of an NFL corner is just a touch under six feet. This is also true of Pro-bowl corners from the last decade. It is true that NFL coaches would like for their corners to be bigger, but those corners must first be able to really run, and, at least as importantly, really shift hips to change directions.
2). Of the top 15 rated NFL corners four weigh in the 180s and the rest in the 190s. These men are mainly in their late twenties or older [amazing how many real veterans there are] and gradually grew into their heavier weights, but did so without losing speed and shiftiness. Theoretically, one might get to the heavier weights faster in life through special training methods, but it is a risk to the alternate higher valued CB traits.
3). When looking at college corners of 2012, there are many ratings. Whether looking at the "top eleven" [as one service did], or Phil Steele's Top 70 [I added the Honey Badger to his list of 69, as he hadn't seen Mathieu coming quite yet], or the top draft prospects list of 31 [guys actually drafted], you see differences but it is roughly in the same ballpark across the board. The mean weight of an elite college corner is 189/190. This means that 190 and up is fine for some to carry, and 180s and down is fine for others in a 50/50 split. That says to me that the weight issue must be less important to actual corner play than the previously mentioned speed and change-of-direction factors.
4). College and pro football are getting bigger, no question about it. Because of the trend towards big receivers [cue general Kelly recruiting], the corners will have to be big to defend. In this transition to greater size, their mass is not the first issue of concern. The first issue of concern is their "length". They have to have enough height [Translation: long arms to cover the immediate space] and explosiveness [translation: to rise or rip into the line-of-flight of the ball] to compete with their big opponent at the moment of truth. Although "muscle" comes into this latter issue, it is not necessarily mass that we are looking for.
5). Muscle mass and thereby "weight" could be conceived as a variable relating to "physicalness" at the point of collision --- i.e. tackling or warding off blocks. Frankly, all manner of good tackling corners exist without being massive specimens. Tackling is an art best pursued by avoiding blockers rather than taking them on. Of course corners can use whatever "improvements" they can acquire, but never at the sacrifice of the tiniest bit of their speed and coverage abilities. Taking on blockers they must do occasionally, but it is not what they are "hired" to do.
6). The best pair of corners in the nation last year were the LSU corners Claiborne and Mathieu. For my own money the best overall corner in the nation was Jayron Hosley of Virginia Tech. None of these guys weighed 190, and Hosley's CB buddy didn't either [Hosley weighed 177]. I mention VT because they generate more great corners consistently than anyone.
Will we need to get massive corners as we go on through the 21st century? Football seems to be getting bigger and bigger so maybe. But the littler blur of a player is resurging offensively a la both Kelly's "tricks" [slots and sudden backfield flankers etc] , so that equally blurry CB seems safe to me in his job.
My addition to our collegial discussion.
yankeeND
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That's all pretty good stuff Mike! All is important but really what I am saying is that from what Gray and Blantons work load for run support needed a little more good weight for all the tackles that they were expected to make to help prevent injury. Not that you can't be 175-180lbs to do that. A lot of that boils down to technique. Its just when a CB is making 75 tackles or more in a season, that puts a lot of wear and tear on your body. If the CB make 35 tackles in said season he probably is a shut down corner with half a dozen picks. All a matter of style.
Wizzle32
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one thing that is very helpful for a cornerback is fluid hips. Straight line speed and agility is obviously key, but being able to adjust your body quickly without losing much speed or momentum is just as important to being able to stay with a receiver.
Coaches on different teams look for different things. Some defenses like tall strong corners to keep WRs on the line. ( these guys tend to be 6 ft+ 200+) They are often slower and less agile. Other coaches like quick short athletic corners.Playmakers. ( these guys are 5'10 or under and under 200 lbs) They rely on speed and athletic ability, they break up passes and stop plays before they happen. So I'm clear. If you are shorter then 5'10 you better be the best freaking athlete on the field meaning 4.4 speed or better. 35 inch verticle or better. And footwork that would make soccer players jealous.
u need speed, quickness, reaction time, footwork, vision, brains, and unless you wanna be like deion sanders, good tackling skills. Speed kills......you can learn to catch and you can lift to get bigger, but pure speed is not taught!
However, that being said. Hard work can make you one heck of a football player, if your not blessed with god given talent make talent yourself. Work hard all year round, study the great players in NFL history. Watch technique. Learn to read offenses Being able to get to the right spot consistently, can make up for lack of elite speed. Also its very important to have a very short memory. You will get beat on occasion, it will happen, it happens to the best, just don't let it get to you and stay confident.
thats my take on things and i believe Butler will be just fine. I believe in our coaches to get him where he needs to be. Im excited about the guy and wish nothing but the best for him as well as all our recruits. Keep working hard young man.
Coaches on different teams look for different things. Some defenses like tall strong corners to keep WRs on the line. ( these guys tend to be 6 ft+ 200+) They are often slower and less agile. Other coaches like quick short athletic corners.Playmakers. ( these guys are 5'10 or under and under 200 lbs) They rely on speed and athletic ability, they break up passes and stop plays before they happen. So I'm clear. If you are shorter then 5'10 you better be the best freaking athlete on the field meaning 4.4 speed or better. 35 inch verticle or better. And footwork that would make soccer players jealous.
u need speed, quickness, reaction time, footwork, vision, brains, and unless you wanna be like deion sanders, good tackling skills. Speed kills......you can learn to catch and you can lift to get bigger, but pure speed is not taught!
However, that being said. Hard work can make you one heck of a football player, if your not blessed with god given talent make talent yourself. Work hard all year round, study the great players in NFL history. Watch technique. Learn to read offenses Being able to get to the right spot consistently, can make up for lack of elite speed. Also its very important to have a very short memory. You will get beat on occasion, it will happen, it happens to the best, just don't let it get to you and stay confident.
thats my take on things and i believe Butler will be just fine. I believe in our coaches to get him where he needs to be. Im excited about the guy and wish nothing but the best for him as well as all our recruits. Keep working hard young man.
peoriairish
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Devin Butler @Devin7_Era
Might get the boobie miles flattop for the season.. Lightning on one side, two lines on the other
Please, please, please let this kid come to ND with a flat top. I would be a happy man.
Might get the boobie miles flattop for the season.. Lightning on one side, two lines on the other
Please, please, please let this kid come to ND with a flat top. I would be a happy man.
Kanye West
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I'm with Whiskey, Jackson, Atkinson, and Brown will be fine with a good front 7,
GoldenIsThyFame
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Could have nothing to do with recruiting, but...
@Devin7_Era: I know something none of you all do... ☺☺☺☺
@Devin7_Era: I know something none of you all do... ☺☺☺☺
rtrn2glory
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could that be translated into i know something you don't know??? little confused by the phrase.
also, what time was this tweeted?? could it be related to JJ's commitment?
NDPhilly
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People at Gridiron Kings with him. Have at it.
Southeast
WR Alvin Bailey – Hometown: Seffner, Fla.
LB Larenz Bryant – Hometown: Charlotte, N.C.
RB Ryan Green – Hometown: St. Petersburg, Fla.
CB Vernon Hargreaves III – Hometown: Tampa, Fla.
TE O.J. Howard – Hometown: Prattville, Ala.
RB Alvin Kamara – Hometown: Norcross, Ga.
CB Will Likely – Hometown: Belle Glade, Fla.
S Leon McQuay – Hometown: Seffner, Fla.
LB Quinton Powell – Hometown: Daytona Beach, Fla.
QB Brice Ramsey – Hometown: Kingsland, Ga.
CB Sojourn Shelton – Hometown: Plantation, Fla.
WR Tony Stevens – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
LB Matthew Thomas – Hometown: Miami, Fla.
WR LeVonte Whitfield – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
CB Shaquille Wiggins – Hometown: Tyrone, Ga.
ATH Reggie Wilkerson – Hometown: Ocala, Fla.
Midwest
LB Alex Anzalone – Hometown: Wyomissing, Pa.
S Quin Blanding (’14) – Hometown: Virginia Beach, Va.
ATH Tyler Boyd – Hometown: Clairton, Pa.
CB Cam Burrows – Hometown: Trotwood, Ohio
CB Devin Butler – Hometown: Washington, D.C.
RB Ezekiel Elliott – Hometown: St. Louis, Mo.
LB Holland Fisher – Hometown: Midlothian, Va.
CB Kendall Fuller – Hometown: Olney, Md.
WR Paul Harris – Hometown: Upper Marlboro, Md.
TE Travis Johnson – Hometown: Tampa, Fla.
WR Jalin Marshall – Hometown: Middletown, Ohio
RB Taquan Mizzell – Hometown: Virginia Beach, Va.
QB Shane Morris – Hometown: Warren, Mich.
LB Jonathon Reschke – Hometown: Bloomfield Hills, Mich.
S Jayme Thompson – Hometown: Toledo, Ohio
WR LaQuon Treadwell – Hometown: Crete, Ill.
CB Eli Woodard – Hometown: Voorhees, N.J.
West
S Hatari Byrd – Hometown: Fresno, Calif.
WR Darren Carrington – Hometown: San Diego, Calif.
RB Justin Davis – Hometown: Stockton, Calif.
S Tahaan Goodman – Hometown: Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
CB Chris Hawkins – Hometown: Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
LB Myles Jack – Hometown: Bellevue, Wash.
TE Arshad Jackson – Hometown: Lovejoy, Ga.
WR Jermaine Kelly – Hometown: Los Angeles, Calif.
RB Craig Lee – Hometown: Redlands, Calif.
CB L.J. Moore – Hometown: Fresno, Calif.
LB Kevin Palma – Hometown: Tulare, Calif.
WR A.J. Richardson – Hometown: Harbor City, Calif.
LB Tyrell Robinson – Hometown: San Diego, Calif.
WR Dominic Walker – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
QB Troy Williams – Hometown: Harbor City, Calif.
CB Priest Willis – Hometown: Tempe, Ariz.
Southwest
CB Tony Brown (’14) – Hometown: Beaumont, Texas
CB Noel Ellis – Hometown: New Orleans, La.
LB Jermaine Grace – Hometown: Miramar, Fla.
S Marcell Harris – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
LB Deon Hollins – Hometown: Houston, Texas
QB DeVante Kincade – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
LB Mike Mitchell – Hometown: Plano, Texas
WR Jake Oliver – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
LB Marcus Robinson – Hometown: Memphis, Tenn.
WR Ra’Shaad Samples – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
CB Maurice Smith – Hometown: Sugar Land, Texas
TE Durham Smythe – Hometown: Belton, Texas
ATH Stanvon Taylor - Hometown: Tulsa, Okla.
RB Altee Tenpenny – Hometown: Little Rock, Ark.
WR Jacorey Warrick – Hometown: Houston, Texas
RB Dontre Wilson – Hometown: DeSoto, Texas
My guess if it was recruiting related would be LJ Moore. they tweet at each other a lot.
Southeast
WR Alvin Bailey – Hometown: Seffner, Fla.
LB Larenz Bryant – Hometown: Charlotte, N.C.
RB Ryan Green – Hometown: St. Petersburg, Fla.
CB Vernon Hargreaves III – Hometown: Tampa, Fla.
TE O.J. Howard – Hometown: Prattville, Ala.
RB Alvin Kamara – Hometown: Norcross, Ga.
CB Will Likely – Hometown: Belle Glade, Fla.
S Leon McQuay – Hometown: Seffner, Fla.
LB Quinton Powell – Hometown: Daytona Beach, Fla.
QB Brice Ramsey – Hometown: Kingsland, Ga.
CB Sojourn Shelton – Hometown: Plantation, Fla.
WR Tony Stevens – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
LB Matthew Thomas – Hometown: Miami, Fla.
WR LeVonte Whitfield – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
CB Shaquille Wiggins – Hometown: Tyrone, Ga.
ATH Reggie Wilkerson – Hometown: Ocala, Fla.
Midwest
LB Alex Anzalone – Hometown: Wyomissing, Pa.
S Quin Blanding (’14) – Hometown: Virginia Beach, Va.
ATH Tyler Boyd – Hometown: Clairton, Pa.
CB Cam Burrows – Hometown: Trotwood, Ohio
CB Devin Butler – Hometown: Washington, D.C.
RB Ezekiel Elliott – Hometown: St. Louis, Mo.
LB Holland Fisher – Hometown: Midlothian, Va.
CB Kendall Fuller – Hometown: Olney, Md.
WR Paul Harris – Hometown: Upper Marlboro, Md.
TE Travis Johnson – Hometown: Tampa, Fla.
WR Jalin Marshall – Hometown: Middletown, Ohio
RB Taquan Mizzell – Hometown: Virginia Beach, Va.
QB Shane Morris – Hometown: Warren, Mich.
LB Jonathon Reschke – Hometown: Bloomfield Hills, Mich.
S Jayme Thompson – Hometown: Toledo, Ohio
WR LaQuon Treadwell – Hometown: Crete, Ill.
CB Eli Woodard – Hometown: Voorhees, N.J.
West
S Hatari Byrd – Hometown: Fresno, Calif.
WR Darren Carrington – Hometown: San Diego, Calif.
RB Justin Davis – Hometown: Stockton, Calif.
S Tahaan Goodman – Hometown: Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
CB Chris Hawkins – Hometown: Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
LB Myles Jack – Hometown: Bellevue, Wash.
TE Arshad Jackson – Hometown: Lovejoy, Ga.
WR Jermaine Kelly – Hometown: Los Angeles, Calif.
RB Craig Lee – Hometown: Redlands, Calif.
CB L.J. Moore – Hometown: Fresno, Calif.
LB Kevin Palma – Hometown: Tulare, Calif.
WR A.J. Richardson – Hometown: Harbor City, Calif.
LB Tyrell Robinson – Hometown: San Diego, Calif.
WR Dominic Walker – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
QB Troy Williams – Hometown: Harbor City, Calif.
CB Priest Willis – Hometown: Tempe, Ariz.
Southwest
CB Tony Brown (’14) – Hometown: Beaumont, Texas
CB Noel Ellis – Hometown: New Orleans, La.
LB Jermaine Grace – Hometown: Miramar, Fla.
S Marcell Harris – Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
LB Deon Hollins – Hometown: Houston, Texas
QB DeVante Kincade – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
LB Mike Mitchell – Hometown: Plano, Texas
WR Jake Oliver – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
LB Marcus Robinson – Hometown: Memphis, Tenn.
WR Ra’Shaad Samples – Hometown: Dallas, Texas
CB Maurice Smith – Hometown: Sugar Land, Texas
TE Durham Smythe – Hometown: Belton, Texas
ATH Stanvon Taylor - Hometown: Tulsa, Okla.
RB Altee Tenpenny – Hometown: Little Rock, Ark.
WR Jacorey Warrick – Hometown: Houston, Texas
RB Dontre Wilson – Hometown: DeSoto, Texas
My guess if it was recruiting related would be LJ Moore. they tweet at each other a lot.
Pa Golden Tate Fan
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Kendall Fuller.
OrlaNDomer
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I'd guess most likely Tyler Boyd...most hopeful would be LJ Moore.
ThePiombino
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GoldenIsThyFame
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Yeah and it leaked out everywhere. I would say you are probably right.
B
Bogtrotter07
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What is that name of that PenState WR, for the class of '13?
naa, that tweet happened after james committed.
NDdomer2
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Were you thinking Will Fuller?
B
Bogtrotter07
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Yeah, I had someone who occasionally gives me some accurate news, who said it looks like we got a wide receiver. So the only person I could figure for was Fuller. Then it confused me with the talk about VT CB Fuller. I feel much better now.
Still don't know who that wide receiver would be that to whom they were refering.
Still don't know who that wide receiver would be that to whom they were refering.
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Grahambo
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@Devin7_Era: Got selected to the Chesapeake bowl! #siceeheem
fightingirish26
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Congratulations devin!
