'13 HI DT Scott Pagano (Clemson Verbal)

[Me2SouthBend]

I didnt go to the link but whats your point? Its not a something other cant do.

I realize that clicking on the link would be a real time consumer for you, but that's something you'll have to do on your own. $EC oversigns like nobody else, that's my point.

 

[ALLGATOR]

I realize that clicking on the link would be a real time consumer for you, but that's something you'll have to do on your own. $EC oversigns like nobody else, that's my point.

ok good to know

 

[woolybug25]

I didnt go to the link but whats your point? Its not a something other cant do.

Schools with integrity choose not to oversign because they have morals.

 

[ALLGATOR]

Schools with integrity choose not to oversign because they have morals.

That sentence was horrible that you highlighted I am trying to do too many things at once right now. Florida doesn't really do it but many in the SEC do. What about it do you think shows a lack or morals and integrity?

 

[beryirish]

It just shows/proves that those institutions care more about their athletics than their student athletes getting a degree.

 

[ALLGATOR]

It just shows/proves that those institutions care more about their athletics than their student athletes getting a degree.

I mean this is probably true but how does it prove that?

 

[beryirish]

I mean this is probably true but how does it prove that?

Oversigning and handing out 1 year scholarships based on performance. If the recruit decides to come to that school and underperform then the staff will bring in another body who they think will get the job done taking away that scholarship from the previous recruit leaving them out to dry. Shame on the recruit for taking the chance if it doesn't work out because they made the decision and shame on the institution for letting it fly.

 

[ALLGATOR]

Oversigning and handing out 1 year scholarships based on performance. If the recruit decides to come to that school and underperform then the staff will bring in another body who they think will get the job done taking away that scholarship from the previous recruit leaving them out to dry. Shame on the recruit for taking the chance if it doesn't work out because they made the decision and shame on the institution for letting it fly.

Well can you name some kids that lost their scholarship because of athletic performance? I would really like to see that list. I cant remember onetime a kid scholarship was not renewed because of his on the field play. (most schools just went to the 4 year scholarship but lets talk about the past)

 

[beryirish]

Then explain to me for my lack of knowledge/ignorance in this matter how they are able to oversign and not get penalized?

 

[ALLGATOR]

Then explain to me for my lack of knowledge/ignorance in this matter how they are able to oversign and not get penalized?

you have to look at how many of the kids were actually getting on campus. Ole miss was signing a bunch of non qualifiers and placing them in prep schools and juco. They knew when they signed the kids that they were not going to get into Ole miss (which is sad that they cant get into Ole miss). You cant just kick kids off the team because they cant play. They have to mess up in the class room or get in trouble off the field. Other reasons kids come off the 85 man roster is by taking a medical hardship or transferring to another school.

 

[beryirish]

and there you have it..thanks....just annoys me

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That sentence was horrible that you highlighted I am trying to do too many things at once right now. Florida doesn't really do it but many in the SEC do. What about it do you think shows a lack or morals and integrity?

I am going to start right now. It is called oversigning for a reason. And the reason it is in vogue is it is an easy way to cheat without a lot of consequences. All SEC schools cheat. It is one of two reasons they are competitive. (the other is the quality of athlete versus student and person, you know, like ChainGANG U). Which is promoted by the large number of poor highschool products coming from southeastern states. To put it in perspective over a five year period, each year LSU has taken students on academic scholarship, that play football, to keep below the 85 scholarship limit, that would not ever be able to make it in to the University of Notre Dame as a student athlete. The reason you don't get it is you are a victim of this win at all cost mentality, as is most of the fanbase of most of the SEC schools.

I saw all I needed of you with that post you made within minutes of the announcement Michael Deebs verbal committment. Peoples character comes out at the damndest times.

 

[IrishLion]

Maybe all that talk by Pagano about Robert N' was just trolling, and he knew he was going with Clemson. Could see him and Robert N' being friends, and telling him he was going to throw everyone off by talking smack

 

[irishfanjho15]

It's one thing to bang heads on the island, but the mainland? Mr. Pagano better bring his lunch pail.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You cant just kick kids off the team because they cant play. They have to mess up in the class room or get in trouble off the field. Other reasons kids come off the 85 man roster is by taking a medical hardship or transferring to another school.

Saban obviously doesn't hold a press conference to state that X player has been kicked off the team for under-performance. He doesn't have to.

Between "undisclosed violations of team rules", gray shirting, medical scholarships, and quietly letting it be known that X player will never see the field at 'Bama, underperformers still get pushed out the door one way or another. Four-year scholarships won't change that at all. It's amazing how often 3 recruits suffer career ending injuries and/or violate undisclosed team rules at 'Bama, and yet it never seems to happen to any of their studs.

That's the difference between ND, Stanford, etc. and the SEC. We believe in amateurism and the ideal of the student athlete, and treat our players accordingly. The SEC views itself as a semi-professional league that has to operate under a pretense of amateurism because of the NCAA, and therefore treats its players like free agents.

UF is a lot better than most in the SEC, though it still suffers from some of the cultural issues in the conference. Your argument became a losing one when you tried to defend 'Bama.

 

[ALLGATOR]

I am going to start right now. It is called oversigning for a reason. And the reason it is in vogue is it is an easy way to cheat without a lot of consequences. All SEC schools cheat. It is one of two reasons they are competitive. (the other is the quality of athlete versus student and person, you know, like ChainGANG U). Which is promoted by the large number of poor highschool products coming from southeastern states. To put it in perspective over a five year period, each year LSU has taken students on academic scholarship, that play football, to keep below the 85 scholarship limit, that would not ever be able to make it in to the University of Notre Dame as a student athlete. The reason you don't get it is you are a victim of this win at all cost mentality, as is most of the fanbase of most of the SEC schools.

I saw all I needed of you with that post you made within minutes of the announcement Michael Deebs verbal committment. Peoples character comes out at the damndest times.

Pleas don't tell me what I do and don't get and what I believe. My character was shown because of the Deeb post explain that please.

 

[ALLGATOR]

whisky you might wonder why I wont respond to your post on here ever again. Its because of what you said about ND and Stanford before. Once you said that I was done corresponding with you.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Pleas don't tell me what I do and don't get and what I believe. My character was shown because of the Deeb post explain that please.

whisky you might wonder why I wont respond to your post on here ever again. Its because of what you said about ND and Stanford before. Once you said that I was done corresponding with you.

It's about time to replace the door mat. The 'WELCOME' on it is getting pretty worn out.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

whisky you might wonder why I wont respond to your post on here ever again.

Just wanted to let me know you're ignoring me? That's cute.

Its because of that you said about ND and Stanford before.

Grammatically incoherent and intentionally vague. You really add value to our discussions here, Gator.

Once you said that I was done corresponding with you.

A devastating loss, to be sure.

 

[irishfanjho15]

A devastating loss, to be sure.

sheer devastation

 

[Old Man Mike]

Gentlemen, what we've just experienced is a perfect example of human beings [despite beginning fairly well] inevitably ending up at crossed swords with no true compromise possible, due to irreducible cultural differences. The Gator fan has imbedded in his belief system an uncompromisable loyalty to Florida which has muted his willingness to even attempt to see why certain practices can be seen as violations of higher human-concerned moral values in the treatment of young "scholar/athletes".

These biases are the product of what is known as the "ratchet brain" mentality. This is a brain which has things that it very much wants to believe in. As the "data" of the world flows past it, it emotionally deflects oppositional things away. When something comes up which reinforces the desired belief, it swallows that and that selected data "ratchets" the brain one "turn" tighter. A mental life poorly meditated upon inevitably ends up with a brain so ratcheted up that even a pleasant personality cannot truly learn anything anymore. At that point the only stimulus which can make any dent is a shovelblow to the face. Or a catastrophic crash-&-burn experience.

Most of us have these self-constructed unexamined beliefs which we think are unassailable. There is, in the end, no use arguing [however noble the cause or however powerful the data] with ratchet brains about things they've cherished for a long time. Gator fan HAD to end up telling Whiskey that he was going to ignore him, because nothing that Whiskey said could live side-by-side in that sort of brainspace. I believe that any committed SEC fan would have responded [ultimately] the same, and the Gator fan lasted longer than I thought.

We, by the way, see similar things happening here on IE between ourselves regularly. "How can you POSSIBLY...etc?" But I have found, and it's the reason that I post here, that we have an unusual number of flexible, self-examining, minds here to whom one CAN direct a tough to weigh and consider conversation.

 

[Irishnuke]

This was bound to happen eventually. Gaytor bashing that is.

 

[ALLGATOR]

This was bound to happen eventually. Gator bashing that is.

I agree, people have been trying to get into an argument for awhile now. It is what it is.

 

[Irishman77]

Gentlemen, what we've just experienced is a perfect example of human beings [despite beginning fairly well] inevitably ending up at crossed swords with no true compromise possible, due to irreducible cultural differences. The Gator fan has imbedded in his belief system an uncompromisable loyalty to Florida which has muted his willingness to even attempt to see why certain practices can be seen as violations of higher human-concerned moral values in the treatment of young "scholar/athletes".

These biases are the product of what is known as the "ratchet brain" mentality. This is a brain which has things that it very much wants to believe in. As the "data" of the world flows past it, it emotionally deflects oppositional things away. When something comes up which reinforces the desired belief, it swallows that and that selected data "ratchets" the brain one "turn" tighter. A mental life poorly meditated upon inevitably ends up with a brain so ratcheted up that even a pleasant personality cannot truly learn anything anymore. At that point the only stimulus which can make any dent is a shovelblow to the face. Or a catastrophic crash-&-burn experience.

Most of us have these self-constructed unexamined beliefs which we think are unassailable. There is, in the end, no use arguing [however noble the cause or however powerful the data] with ratchet brains about things they've cherished for a long time. Gator fan HAD to end up telling Whiskey that he was going to ignore him, because nothing that Whiskey said could live side-by-side in that sort of brainspace. I believe that any committed SEC fan would have responded [ultimately] the same, and the Gator fan lasted longer than I thought.

We, by the way, see similar things happening here on IE between ourselves regularly. "How can you POSSIBLY...etc?" But I have found, and it's the reason that I post here, that we have an unusual number of flexible, self-examining, minds here to whom one CAN direct a tough to weigh and consider conversation.

Very nutritious post OMM.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Just wanted to let me know you're ignoring me? That's cute.



Grammatically incoherent and intentionally vague. You really add value to our discussions here, Gator.



A devastating loss, to be sure.

Kind of like calling you to tell you he's giving you the silent treatment. Classic.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I agree, people have been trying to get into an argument for awhile now. It is what it is.

No, you f*cked up with that Deeb bullsh!t you pulled. I was all for you until then. And now you want to defend stuff that is indefensible. Your school's lack of a non-conference game outside your state for what, 20 years???, is a joke, and yet you still defend it (btw, LSU played Oregon AND West Virginia last year OOC...and played in the SEC and won the SEC and made it to the BCS final. It's called balls, stoned, gonads, whatever you want to call it - Florida doesn't have it, period. I'm not saying you have to do that every year, but ONCE int he past 20 would be nice, no?)

And you defend oversigning, when your school doesn't even do it LOL. Do the freaking math - 25 x 4 = 100. You're only allowed 85 on the roster. Now ADD like 10 players over those 4 years due to oversigning, and you have to hack off 25 (!!!) players to make the roster work. And you think 25 guys magically disappear due to breaking team rules and academics??? Seriously?

Nah dude, don't even try the pity party. This is an Irish site, so obviously we're going to be sensitive to these types of things. If I went to a FL board and showed a FL player getting beat on the day of his announcement, I'd have been banned in a heartbeat, as well I should. We gave you a chance, personally b/c I like hearing from other teams' fans. But if you're going to stick your nose into arguments, don't feel bad when you can't win. You never will here. Just like I'd never win an argument on a FL site. So why even bother?

I'm a member of a USC site...have been for like 2 years, and I have maybe 100 posts, if that. They talk crap about ND all the time, but I just let it go. I'm respected on that site because I chime in on things that aren't argumentative...just things in general about college football or things (like recruiting) pertaining to ND. IMO it makes for better enjoyment on the site for me...

 

[stlnd01]

Worth noting: There are four football programs in the Big Ten currently on NCAA probation (Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska). There are none in the SEC (LSU recently came off a one-year).
Yes, the SEC schools are kings of oversigning, but let's not get too up there on our regional high horse, shall we? There's dirty college football from sea to shining sea.

 

[ALLGATOR]

I read this board all last year without making a post.

 

[NYMIKE6]

I read this board all last year without making a post.

Then what happened?

 

[ALLGATOR]

Then what happened?

I thought I could make a positive contribution to the board with information on some of the southern players and asked should I start posting info.