'12 AZ WR Davonte Neal (Arizona Transfer)

[NDPhilly]

He will be the starting slot receiver for the Navy game. Would be very suprised if he isn't.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

I know, it shouldn't be news. But we have several members who are convinced he needs to start at CB, so I thought it should be shared.

Are we saying, regardless of other needs or roster depth, a 10/10 WR is just much more valuable than a 10/10 CB. Even if the drop-off at WR may be 2-3 points, and the drop off at CB is 5 or 6 points? (Madden-style ratings here, haha).

 

[Irish2155]

He will be the starting slot receiver for the Navy game. Would be very suprised if he isn't.

Returning punts too would be nice. Can't wait to see this kid.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Are we saying, regardless of other needs or roster depth, a 10/10 WR is just much more valuable than a 10/10 CB. Even if the drop-off at WR may be 2-3 points, and the drop off at CB is 5 or 6 points? (Madden-style ratings here, haha).

He'd be great in the secondary but I think he's too talented to let go to waste back there. He needs the ball in his hands.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Are we saying, regardless of other needs or roster depth, a 10/10 WR is just much more valuable than a 10/10 CB. Even if the drop-off at WR may be 2-3 points, and the drop off at CB is 5 or 6 points? (Madden-style ratings here, haha).

I think it has more to do with where he'll be most productive as a true freshman. WR is the easiest to step in at and produce immediately; CB is the hardest.

So even though depth concerns suggest he should train first as a DB, his ability to start at Z WR and immediately become a big play threat for us is much more valuable.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think it has more to do with where he'll be most productive as a true freshman. WR is the easiest to step in at and produce immediately; CB is the hardest.

So even though depth concerns suggest he should train first as a DB, his ability to start at Z WR and immediately become a big play threat for us is much more valuable.

I think you factor in Russell as well. My thought is that Neal would probably be a semi-starter on offense while KR was not likely to see the field this year. If both project as back-ups on defense, lets go with the kid who isn't taking anything away from the offense: KR. On the other hand, if Neal could see real minutes this year on defense and KR could not, then that is indeed a tough call.

I say if Neal WANTS to play defense--if he will do so with a smile on his face--I think we are much more desperate on that side of the ball this year and next and he should play CB. He could have a long pro-career as a CB.

However, it seems like a shame to have a kid like that and not give him the ball! The head coach is an offensive coordinator and the kid loves his TDs... Neal at WR, KR at CB.

 

[Emcee77]

I think it will depend on how everybody looks in camp, and nothing would surprise me, but I expect Neal to play offense. As Whiskey pointed out, CB is a hard position to learn, and while he is not an ideal fit at CB in our system, he is an IDEAL fit at slot receiver. He should play WR, where he has the highest ceiling for us, unless he proves in camp that he is unquestionably one of our top two corners, which I don't really think he will do.

Russell, on the other hand, should take a "Farley year." When Matthias Farley came in, we were light on WRs, so Farley practiced at WR for depth, but preserved a year of eligibility. Then this spring he switched back to defense, where he was recruited. Russell should do the same (but reverse the sides of the ball). Practice at CB for depth with the goal that he doesn't see action this year unless we have serious injury problems. Then, in the spring, with Riddick gone and Cierre possibly gone, move him back to offense.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think it will depend on how everybody looks in camp, and nothing would surprise me, but I expect Neal to play offense. As Whiskey pointed out, CB is a hard position to learn, and while he is not an ideal fit at CB in our system, he is an IDEAL fit at slot receiver. He should play WR, where he has the highest ceiling for us, unless he proves in camp that he is unquestionably one of our top two corners, which I don't really think he will do.

Russell, on the other hand, should take a "Farley year." When Matthias Farley came in, we were light on WRs, so Farley practiced at WR for depth, but preserved a year of eligibility. Then this spring he switched back to defense, where he was recruited. Russell should do the same (but reverse the sides of the ball). Practice at CB for depth with the goal that he doesn't see action this year unless we have serious injury problems. Then, in the spring, with Riddick gone and Cierre possibly gone, move him back to offense.

Exactly. The only point I would add is that you assess whether or not you want to move KR back based on how he did and who is coming in.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

I think it has more to do with where he'll be most productive as a true freshman. WR is the easiest to step in at and produce immediately; CB is the hardest.

So even though depth concerns suggest he should train first as a DB, his ability to start at Z WR and immediately become a big play threat for us is much more valuable.

Fair. I think what grabbed me was a quote from his HS coach, who said he'd place him at DB because it was so much more difficult to find that quality of DB than WR.

 

[ACamp1900]

The recent dialogue here shows a real but fixable problem with ND football imo... the staff at times is forced to play talent outside of their most legit position simply due to need elsewhere... Theo Riddick and this discussion right here are just two recent examples...

the solution to this is take academically stable JUCOs and you won't have to flip talent here and there nearly as much...

just a thought that somewhat related, I know this is Neal's thread and I'm not trying to derail anything... it's just worth pointing out.

 

[micks60]

DB is harder than WR to learn for a Frosh but maybe not the hardest. Especially corner. It depends alot on what type of coverages and technique they used in HS. If the same or similar it is actually a pretty easy transition compared to LB.

 

[Zbi]

IMO, he would be really good on defense. However, he is going to be a game-breaker in the slot position and returning punts.

 

[TDHeysus]

Are we saying, regardless of other needs or roster depth, a 10/10 WR is just much more valuable than a 10/10 CB. Even if the drop-off at WR may be 2-3 points, and the drop off at CB is 5 or 6 points? (Madden-style ratings here, haha).

from what I have read, and can tell...Davonte Neal appears to be a 'game breaker' type of a player. He is THAT guy that turns a simple innocent play into the play that unexpectedly wins the game. if he is indeed that type of player, I think that would dictate his position on the field and where he will see PT. Not to compare Davonte to Ismail, but im sure Rocket could have played an effective CB, but Rocket's 'game breaker' skills, among other skills, dictated that he play the slot. If everything I have heard/read about davonte is true(his video shows he can score from any position on the field), I think davonte's skills will determine where he plays.

my guess is that he might see some CB in limited situations, mainly because ND is thin at that position, not because his skills dictate that. But I think he was brought to ND to light it up offensively.

 

[SoIll]

i'm just glad he made it on campus

 

[Rocket89]

Offense all day every day. Stop playing.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

Well, I'll be the last to complain when I see him line up in the slot. But we keep saying "he can be an effective CB, but a killer WR." Are we just basing this on the difficulty of learning CB vs. WR? Because I assume he can be a killer CB too.

 

[Emcee77]

No, we're basing it on the way he fits into the system. Kelly's spread offense requires a quick, fast slot receiver who can make guys miss and pick up yards after the catch. Neal is exactly that. Diaco's zone D requires big, physical, safety-like corners. Neal is not really perfect for that system, although no one doubts that he is athletic enough to be a good, possibly great corner. It's just that he is not prototypical, whereas at WR he is prototypical.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well, I'll be the last to complain when I see him line up in the slot. But we keep saying "he can be an effective CB, but a killer WR." Are we just basing this on the difficulty of learning CB vs. WR? Because I assume he can be a killer CB too.

As Emcee77 mentioned earlier, it's also because he's not an ideal fit for CB in our scheme. Diaco's CBs need to be physical at the line of scrimmage and good in zone coverage; thus his preference for "big" DBs. There's little doubt that Neal has the athleticism to keep up with just about any WR, but does he have the size and strength to jam Robert Woods at the line of scrimmage, or the length to effectively cover a zone?

He's just a better fit at Z WR, and we can always cross-train Russell at CB to help ease the concerns about DB depth.

Edit: Emcee beat me to it.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

Nod. Feel better about it now

 

[NDinL.A.]

He will be the starting slot receiver for the Navy game. Would be very suprised if he isn't.

Hmmm, I think the opposite. I think he'll be on the field, but I think Toma will start. Young QB (please!!!), lots of pressure, 1st game jitters...let the veteran who knows the offense (and who, btw, has some game himself) get the start and let the kid see some time as well. Unless he's like Sammy Watkins good, I would actually be surprised to see him start the FIRST game...

 

[TDHeysus]

Hmmm, I think the opposite. I think he'll be on the field, but I think Toma will start. Young QB (please!!!), lots of pressure, 1st game jitters...let the veteran who knows the offense (and who, btw, has some game himself) get the start and let the kid see some time as well. Unless he's like Sammy Watkins good, I would actually be surprised to see him start the FIRST game...

Roby Toma is money...When he is on the field, good things happen.

 

[Irishman77]

5 touches a game and punt returner

 

[NYMIKE6]

I'd like to see him used in the slot but as a counter to Toma's catching ability. Have Neal run some Jet sweeps and try to out flank the defense.

 

[D-BOE34]

The recent dialogue here shows a real but fixable problem with ND football imo... the staff at times is forced to play talent outside of their most legit position simply due to need elsewhere... Theo Riddick and this discussion right here are just two recent examples...

the solution to this is take academically stable JUCOs and you won't have to flip talent here and there nearly as much...

just a thought that somewhat related, I know this is Neal's thread and I'm not trying to derail anything... it's just worth pointing out.

Can we not get a JUCO with higher standards? Almost like Holy Cross? I ask with uncertainty and lack of knowledge. I know, JUCO is for those that can't even make SEC. Is there not programs that work for schools like, Stanford, NW, ND, Harvard, DUKE, etc?


As far as Neal. I think we play him as slot/wr and he get some rotation at DB in practice. See how comfortable he is now, maybe make the move this summer (post 2012). Kid is an athlete. Throwing him in a practice here and there for 20 mins won't change his productivity at his position he is placed. It will give coaches an idea though.

 

[micks60]

No, we're basing it on the way he fits into the system. Kelly's spread offense requires a quick, fast slot receiver who can make guys miss and pick up yards after the catch. Neal is exactly that. Diaco's zone D requires big, physical, safety-like corners. Neal is not really perfect for that system, although no one doubts that he is athletic enough to be a good, possibly great corner. It's just that he is not prototypical, whereas at WR he is prototypical.

Agree to a point. Actually in Diaco's system it really depends on what coverages he is going into and if Diaco decides to keep the young guy to the field. I know that that sounds crazy but the field is the guy who can play softer on passes. The boundary is a squat corner. Here you need a more physical corner. Easy way to fix this would be flip corners (which they have done in the past.). Only issue with this is this causes the field corner to get left on on island so they need to be a great coverage corner.(which is what we are saying Neal is). If going into any other coverage but their base coverage is is not an issue besides when they run cover 2. That is the ONLY issue I really see. The rest be fixed by flipping or calling a different coverage when you are out there.

So he actually can be fit into the system with no wrinkles or issues.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

Play him both sides of the ball ala woodson!

 

[Praytorian]

Thank God someone else was thinking what I'm thinking. Charles Woodson played CB/WR/PR/KR (I think the last 2).
Come on now we ALL know Defense wins championships. How else did the Giants beat the Pats?
Tony Driver said on Power Hour monday that you put your atheletes on D. Heck even CBK said he can put points on the board, ya just gotta have the atheletes on D.

 

[arrowryan]

I like him at slot. He might not start on September 1 but I think he will be the starter eventually this year. I have faith in cornerbacks right now, I want to see what they can do

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Thank God someone else was thinking what I'm thinking. Charles Woodson played CB/WR/PR/KR (I think the last 2).
Come on now we ALL know Defense wins championships. How else did the Giants beat the Pats?
Tony Driver said on Power Hour monday that you put your atheletes on D. Heck even CBK said he can put points on the board, ya just gotta have the atheletes on D.

I knew Woodson, and watched him play. I know his brother Shawn. The jump between Woodson and Neal is great. Neal is an awesome athlete; but they are two entirely different animals. As a sophomore in highschool, I watched Woodson play more than once, and he was a man. I mean he had four or five inches and twenty-five or thirty pounds on Neal. I talked to a couple members of the U of Toledo coaching staff, (which may have had Brady Hoke). Everybody agreed that as a sophomore in highschool he may have been All-MAC, most valuable player. He was probably ready for the NFL by the time he was out of high school. He was an incredible freak, maybe once in twenty years.

 

[Chamellion]

Who is he comparable to in the NFL. Welker?