Who's next to commit? How many slots?

[aaronb]

Aaron,
I do agree that we have many WR's on the roster, but here are some things to consider. First, we lose Kamara and Floyd after this season. I know Floyd is not a senior, but he is NFL bound and don't give me any business that he is not. Second, rumors are beginnning to swirl again about Shaq thinking about leaving. That means one of our supposed future playmakers could be gone. Third, all signs are saying that Deion Walker is a bust. As a third year player and two coaching staffs, yet he remains buried in the depth chart. Plus, all the media I spoke with say he is just not good. So, after 2010 you really are missing any big playmakers at WR. We NEED atleast one, maybe two WR's in this class.

To all those supporting Richardson as an OL commit, please don't take that I am not a Richardson fan. He appears to be a stud, but I just feel we must fill other needs. We cannot afford to miss any of the athletes who would like to get on board this year. The 2010 class has some players who could sub at OL, Heggie. But, we only have one DB from that class left on campus, Wood. Who knows what happens with Badger.

I'm more concerned with us only having 4 legit CB's on the roster. That is DANGEROUSLY thin IMHO. Not to mention that Walls and possibly Gary Gray are playing their last seasons.

I think this spread offense will always attract WR talent. However the staff needs to beat the bushes a little more for DB's.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

well we'll have 1 more spot open now that shaq is transferring

 

[IrishInFl]

Why does everyone say we have another slot open when Kelly just said in the PC that Montana got a scholarship?

 

[IrishMoore1]

well we'll have 1 more spot open now that shaq is transferring

Shaq's transfer is kinda negated by the scholarship that has now been given to Nate Montana

 

[TerryTate]

Schollies are renewed on a yearly basis. I think Kelly gave Nate a scholarship because he worked to improve last year and came ready to compete this year. I don't think Joe will mind footing the bill next year. Shaq probably did open up a scholarship for this year's class

 

[IrishInColumbus]

Why would he give Montana a scholarship until he actually plays in a game?! His dad is worth millions, it's not like he couldn't pay ND's tuition easily a hundred times over.

Use that scholarship elsewhere!

 

[military_irish]

Why would he give Montana a scholarship until he actually plays in a game?! His dad is worth millions, it's not like he couldn't pay ND's tuition easily a hundred times over.

Use that scholarship elsewhere!

i think its something that happens all the time that one person that isn't on scholarship gets one during fall camp. at least i know Weis did it twice with Bobby Burger and Mike Anello.

So if Montana rightfully earned it in the eyes of the coaches then let him have it, it shouldn't matter who his parents are, if thats the case half or maybe less of the kids that play D1 ball should pay their own way

 

[mgriff]

It's not about money, it's about him earning the scholarship. Clearly Nate earned a scholarship in the eyes of the coaching staff. Could Joe Montana pay the tuition? Without question. Nate worked his tail off to compete and help the football team. Don't you think it sends a better message to the young man by rewarding his effort and dedication, as opposed to treating him differently than the rest of the team simply because his father has money?

 

[irish4ever]

So if Montana rightfully earned it in the eyes of the coaches then let him have it, it shouldn't matter who his parents are, if thats the case half or maybe less of the kids that play D1 ball should pay their own way

I totally agree w/ you on that!

 

[IrishInColumbus]

I see your point, and while it's valid, I disagree. It almost sounds like it's a gesture, not a wise use of valuable roster space.

I had a cousin wrestle at Ohio State and was given a full-ride coming out of high school, but gave it back because they could use it for others and he could easily pay. That's just how I see it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Schollies are renewed on a yearly basis. I think Kelly gave Nate a scholarship because he worked to improve last year and came ready to compete this year. I don't think Joe will mind footing the bill next year. Shaq probably did open up a scholarship for this year's class

Would we really give him a scholarship this year, but not renew it for next year? Is that common? I'd think that once the scholarship is awarded, he keeps it.

Although, I don't actually know.

 

[BGIF]

Schollies are renewed on a yearly basis.

Better hope ACamp doesn't read your post or he'll go into another 4 year committment hissy fit and smear you with an Alabama fan lable.

I think Kelly gave Nate a scholarship because he worked to improve last year and came ready to compete this year.

Kelly's choice. But they all worked to improve and the rest of them don't do it at a California Community College throwing 5 ints as a backup.

I don't think Joe will mind footing the bill next year. Shaq probably did open up a scholarship for this year's class

For the '10 season Evans created a vacancy in the 85 which is now refilled. Unless there is attrition after the season there is no new space available.

I don't recall anyone awarded an ND scholarship relinquishing it to make space for another regardless of the size of dad's bank account.

When J.W. Jordan signed in '97 his HS football accomplishments were listed in the Observer as "Jordan Auditorium". His father a member of the Board of Trustees and heavy hitter donor had donated said building. There was serious doubt that J.W. would have gotten a scholarship in 1AA. Aside from his ND offer he might have had one from Hofstra. That was it. He was a 6-1 undersized OL with a body fat content that would make Haagen Daz envious. In his first 4 years he played about a dozen minutes. He doubled that in his 5th year after rehabbing from an MCL. He worked hard and took a lot of abuse but he persevered.

Lots of guys don't contribute much. But at the time he was filling a scholarship slot, ND was required by the NCAA (Dunbar) to leave 2 slots empty. Had his dad taken out his checkbook ND could have recruited a bona fide Div 1 athlete.

Maybe Nate will give his back and Joe will write out a check for tuition again. But as others have pointed out, as his parent's wealth shouldn't be a factor in issuing him a scholarship,
then why expect him to relinquish his scholarship after one season just because his parent's can afford it?

 

[Old Man Mike]

As to the discussion about Nate Montana's scholarship, whether Dad should pay for it vs whether Kelly should have "used it up": It's the decision that we make all over our lives isn't it? Do something for a person vs do something for "business". Notre Dame, I hope, will always resist doing something for "business" at the expense of a person. The person involved here is not Joe Montana but Nate Montana. If Nate worked hard to earn his scholarship, I'll bet he'd be proud to say that he had done so and here was the scholarship to Notre Dame to prove it. Can you imagine what it would be like to have a Dad of that magnitude [even if he's a wonderful non-pushy one] who sits atop the mountain of something that you yourself are trying to do? Wouldn't it be great if the young man could go to sleep at night and say, "I did it. I earned my scholarship to Notre Dame." He may never even approach Joe, but by gum you can not take that away from him. "Well, there will never be another one like my Dad, but I was a scholarship quarterback at Notre Dame, too". {simulated made-up quote for the literalists}. The only way that Joe might play in this story is if he wanted to donate some money to the program or give some talks to local [to him] high schools who happened to have great football programs. I say congratulations Nate; you did this yourself.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

As to the discussion about Nate Montana's scholarship, whether Dad should pay for it vs whether Kelly should have "used it up": It's the decision that we make all over our lives isn't it? Do something for a person vs do something for "business". Notre Dame, I hope, will always resist doing something for "business" at the expense of a person. The person involved here is not Joe Montana but Nate Montana. If Nate worked hard to earn his scholarship, I'll bet he'd be proud to say that he had done so and here was the scholarship to Notre Dame to prove it. Can you imagine what it would be like to have a Dad of that magnitude [even if he's a wonderful non-pushy one] who sits atop the mountain of something that you yourself are trying to do? Wouldn't it be great if the young man could go to sleep at night and say, "I did it. I earned my scholarship to Notre Dame." He may never even approach Joe, but by gum you can not take that away from him. "Well, there will never be another one like my Dad, but I was a scholarship quarterback at Notre Dame, too". {simulated made-up quote for the literalists}. The only way that Joe might play in this story is if he wanted to donate some money to the program or give some talks to local [to him] high schools who happened to have great football programs. I say congratulations Nate; you did this yourself.

This is the second comment of yours that I have read and found myself saying, "What a class act!" I believe this is the way a man has to conduct himself to be successfull, both BK and Nate. Actually, this is what I love about ND most!

 

[SoInIrishFan]

How about we get back on topic? Just a thought.

 

[BGIF]

How about we get back on topic? Just a thought.

The posts are on topic, "How many slots?"

They discuss whether or not there is a new slot for the Signing Class of Feb '11. Some think yes, some think no.

 

[RDU Irish]

So to stay on topic, does awarding a walk-on a scholarship obligate extension of said scholarship in future years? I think most of us agree that for recruited players, a four year commitment is expected of our great university. Walk-ons seem a bit more of a grey area.

This question has imporant impact on our ability to bring another recruit in next year.

I submit the Montana schollie tells us BK has faith in Nate staying in the QB mix as long as he is on the team and the distance from #3 to #4 on the depth chart may be more substantial than previously indicated (i.e. two years needed to develop these guys).

BTW - I'm Joe Montana, I'm very happy to meet you." SNL bit cracks me up more than it should.

 

[BGIF]

So to stay on topic, does awarding a walk-on a scholarship obligate extension of said scholarship in future years? I think most of us agree that for recruited players, a four year commitment is exected of our great university. Walk-ons seem a bit more of a grey area.

Nate was recruited per NCAA regs. He wasn't offered a scholarship by ND. He was offered to come as a preferred walk-on.

Terry Tate is correct that NCAA scholarships are renewable annually as was rocket31 when he posted it a couple of days ago. ND has renewed scholarships annually for 4 or 5 years (although Yeatman may dissent on that position). So why should ND treat a walk-on who gets a scholarship differently? That sounds like a Les Miles, Steve Spurrier approach, doesn't it?

I can think of several ND walk-ons who were awarded scholarship, most, if not all, were upperclassmen. Nate is the only sophomore I can recall.

This question has imporant impact on our ability to bring another recruit in next year.

A few weeks ago Lemming wrote that ND would likely take 21 plus or minus. He went on to add IF ND does well this season and the deep blue chippers want to say, "yes", Kelly would take up to a full class (didn't elaborate but that would essentially axe the 5th years).

I submit the Montana schollie tells us BK has faith in Nate staying in the QB mix as long as he is on the team ...

Agreed Meaning we have 4 QBs on scholarship and log jam like Sharpley, Frazer, Jones which screwed up QB recruiting the following year. Kelly just said that he will recruit a QB every year.

... and the distance from #3 to #4 on the depth chart may be more substantial than previously indicated (i.e. two years needed to develop these guys).[/Quote}

May be but I don't know that's valid. Nate wasn't an established HS QB. He went to CC to get reps. Rees hasn't been here a year he came in January. Hendrix and Massa have been here a few weeks. Not a good sample to judge development time. I don't think Kelly got two years to turn then out at UC.

... BTW - I'm Joe Montana, I'm very happy to meet you." SNL bit cracks me up more than it should.

We can use some levity with all the intensity and angst that have permeated these threads in the past 24 hours.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

..

BTW - I'm Joe Montana, I'm very happy to meet you." SNL bit cracks me up more than it should.

That is one of the funniest all time SNL skits. I always ask folks if they remember that one. Couldn't find any video but....

 

[RDU Irish]

For the record, Montana makes 5 QBs on scholarship with Crist, Rees, Montana, Hendrix, Massa. (I'll try not to throw out my shoulder patting myself on the back for correcting the resident guru BGIF!!!)

Wasn't aware/forgot Nate was a preferred walk on. To me that means the schollie should stick, in this case up to his three years of eligibility. This is a big commitment for BK and I am sure he did not take it lightly! Do any of the freshmen project well to another position?

My take on walk on awards is colored by the Weis approach of rewarding the top walk ons. He presented it as a one year deal and I did not have the impression it was implied to commit longer. I hate to see a schollie go to waste and as long as it is presented in an upfront manner, I don't see a problem with a one year award presented correctly. I also cant' think of a situation where I was ashamed of the way ND handled schollies.

 

[BGIF]

For the record, Montana makes 5 QBs on scholarship with Crist, Rees, Montana, Hendrix, Massa. (I'll try not to throw out my shoulder patting myself on the back for correcting the resident guru BGIF!!!)

Wasn't aware/forgot Nate was a preferred walk on. To me that means the schollie should stick, in this case up to his three years of eligibility. This is a big commitment for BK and I am sure he did not take it lightly! Do any of the freshmen project well to another position?

My take on walk on awards is colored by the Weis approach of rewarding the top walk ons. He presented it as a one year deal and I did not have the impression it was implied to commit longer. I hate to see a schollie go to waste and as long as it is presented in an upfront manner, I don't see a problem with a one year award presented correctly. I also cant' think of a situation where I was ashamed of the way ND handled schollies.

It is indeed 5 now. I've been posting too much in too many threads. My point that I never clarified was of a logjam of 4 for the group behind Crist. Like the logjam with Clausen, Sharpley, Frazer, and Jones. Too many so closely grouped together.

I don't think any one of them really projects well to another position. There's no Arnaz Battle speed to move to WR or DB, nor the height and bulk of Gary Godsey to move to TE. Nor is there a need at WR or TE. Rees struck me as the one most likely to stay if beaten out but that was just my gut feeling. And now he's a contender.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Why does everyone say we have another slot open when Kelly just said in the PC that Montana got a scholarship?

Taking into account that Montana was given a scholarship, there was one less scholarship. Then SHaq transferred, so now there's one more.

 

[mgriff]

You can consider Nate as taking Shaq's scholarship, or what is more likely, in my estimation, is that he got one once E.J. Banks' slot opened up. I'm sure it was talked about and decided upon long before Shaq left.

 

[BGIF]

You can consider Nate as taking Shaq's scholarship, or what is more likely, in my estimation, is that he got one once E.J. Banks' slot opened up. I'm sure it was talked about and decided upon long before Shaq left.

Kelly has previously stated that Banks was still enrolled and off scholarship BUT he has the chance to win it back. He couldn't win it back if it was already filled by Nate.

This isn't going to shake out until after the season and semester is over.

 

[RDU Irish]

OK, so where do we stand on schollies with the recent attrition? It has been cleared up by Kelly that the schollie is burnt for this year if they start any classes. That makes Shaq and Roback unavailable for 2010 but open up for 2011. We have 16 verbals now and a lot of lines in the water.

5th year options are also going to start to solidfying as live action tells us who the key players are to extend their career.

 

[RDU Irish]

Who I see as the most likely fifth years-

Gary Gray - big talent and big need, NFL talent IMO
Harrison Smith - big need but needs to turn it on this year
Dever - Great to have our starting RT back if he has a good year
Nuss - seems to have joined the rotation, never have too many experienced OL
Nwankwo - huge need and he seems to be working well into the rotation

Must haves here are Gray, Nwankwo and maybe Smith, more so by need than anything else. Gray may be the only one I BEG to come back but if he plays TOO good he is off to the combines this spring.

5th years are going to have a more reliable and immediate impact than newbies, which is why I place more value on OL/DL positions where physical maturity has the most impact. However, if there is elite talent waiting until signing day, you have to make room.

 

[Ben E.]

5th years are going to have a more reliable and immediate impact than newbies, which is why I place more value on OL/DL positions where physical maturity has the most impact. However, if there is elite talent waiting until signing day, you have to make room.

its a thin line to walk thats for sure!

 

[rocket31]

if gray continues this pace, he will go to the league.

no way he sticks around for an unneccessary 5th year if he has a chance to get drafted. he will already have his degree by the end of this year.

 

[irishnd31]

BTW - I'm Joe Montana, I'm very happy to meet you." SNL bit cracks me up more than it should.

"Don't mind me....I'll just be in my room mastrubating."

 

[RDU Irish]

But we won't know until late in the season how he projects. Plenty of players stick around in some masters program after getting their degrees for another year. You could make the same arguement for underclassmen, just take the NFL money, you can always come back to finish your degree. That worked well for Darius Walker. Quinn and Clausen both dropped well below where all the "experts" expected them to get drafted. It has been an eternity since ND players "outperformed" in the draft.

What about the team? Maybe we are on pace for NC in 2011. Maybe he is loving life on campus and dating some hot junior. Maybe he can focus more on football with a really light 5th year class schedule and dramatically improve his draft stock. Maybe his Combine #s are not ideal and he knows he needs a better college production resume to compensate. I just don't see it as cut and dried as rocket31.