Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

[Domina Nostra]

Sorry, but nope. Over the last few years, A&M has dumped an incredible amount of resources into their football program. They have spent their way into relevance.

New Texas A&M Football Complex [Photos] - Business Insider

You could throw Baylor and TCU into that mix. Can any school just take a head coach away from another half-decent Power 5 school without some clear connection (alumni) or the coach really wanting to leave? Not too much evidence of that happening at all.

Again, it all depends on contracts, timing, fit, and a little luck.

 

[NDgradstudent]

It amazes me how ND fans argue out of both sides of their mouths. Would we be happy with the amount of success Wisconsin has had recently? If they lose to Michigan this week, will anyone care about Wisconsin?

The measuring stick at ND is championships. ND is not currently at a championship level, at least not on defense. In my mind, BK has one more shot to hire a top notch DC who can take this team to a championship level.

If he cant get it done, then you find another HC who possibly could take this team to the top.

There is no argument out of both sides of our mouth. We aren't saying we want to equal Wisconsin's national relevance and success. We are saying that we want to equal or surpass Wisconsin's ability to coach up its players. Wisconsin performs well above their talent level. We perform well below our talent level. Why is this? Coaching. That's the point.

 

[BeauBenken]

Beau, you an old, white Catholic dude yet?

I've got the gray hair, but I'm unfortunately only 23. Probably give me like 20 years at least man. Nailing the white Catholic part though. (I'm bad at going to church but great at drinking beer and eating fish.)

 

[IrishBroker]

Anyone in this thread who wants Bo Pelini as DC, please watch Melvin Gordon and 7-5 Wisconsin run for 500+ yards, and 70 points in the Big Ten Championship game in '12. This was a recurring theme during the Bo years, and part of the ultimate reason he was canned.

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He's going to LSU with Jimbo Fisher anyway. Getting the old Saban crew back together is my opinion.

 

[tko]

Not sure if brought up, don't feel like reading back. Irish Illustrated's podcast did bring up Luke Finkle from O$U. I'm not sure Arand (sp?) from LSU will be available. Whoever goes to LSU will definitely keep him on. ND would have to top his $1.3M/yr to get him unless he doesn't like the new HC.

Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkle.

 

[Irish#1]

Not sure if brought up, don't feel like reading back. Irish Illustrated's podcast did bring up Luke Finkle from O$U. I'm not sure Arand (sp?) from LSU will be available. Whoever goes to LSU will definitely keep him on. ND would have to top his $1.3M/yr to get him unless he doesn't like the new HC.

Or the new coach doesn't like him, or the new coach already has somebody in mind. Never know about dynamics. New coaches tend to bring in guys they've worked with in the past. I would say there's at least a 50/50 chance he'll be available.

 

[IrishBroker]

I just posted this on the BVG board (meant to post here)

What about Matt Patricia? He's going to be a hot name in the NFL after this year and will definitely gets some looks from CFB.

Just throwing out names.

 

[koonja]

I'd take Herm Edwards at ND. And that'd never happen.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Then why is Notre Dame rated in the top 10 most desirable jobs by every single poll of coaches, etc. done in recent memory?

I truly don't understand where the idea comes from that no one would be interested in this job and we can't get a top 10 coach when there is mountains of evidence that people want the job. Since Charlie Weis proved you can recruit here and Kelly got to a championship game and the admin has taken steps forward in compensation, this is about as good of a job as it gets in CFB... with a few exceptions.

Every year there are shocking coaching moves, you can't predict who will and who won't answer the phone when you call. You can't predict who is unhappy with their administration or is looking for something new. If you know Kelly can't get it done (which we don't) and you settle with him for fear of the unknown, that is how you end up with a failure of a program.

I think your floor getting a new coach is Dan Mullen. And every year or two there is going to be an ascendant coach in the AAC or MAC who might be the right guy, like Urban was at MWC Utah or Patterson at MWC TCU. You just have to be looking a ready to pull the trigger, not afraid that PJ Fleck or whoever is going to be worse than mediocrity.

A few?

1. Academic requirements
2. Religious aspect of the school
3. School is in Indiana
4. Tough schedule year in year out
5. Res Life or whatever they call it now
6. ND doesn't pay as well as others
7. We really don't know what ND pays their assistants

ND got damn lucky with Kelly (Irish Catholic from Boston who always wanted ND) and 2009 there was no better job available.

 

[NDgradstudent]

A few?

1. Academic requirements
2. Religious aspect of the school
3. School is in Indiana
4. Tough schedule year in year out
5. Res Life or whatever they call it now
6. ND doesn't pay as well as others
7. We really don't know what ND pays their assistants

ND got damn lucky with Kelly (Irish Catholic from Boston who always wanted ND) and 2009 there was no better job available.

I'm pretty sure Lax was talking about other top jobs, not the specific issues at ND. But since you raised them...

1. Yeah, but it's still possible to sign a top 5 class, as the 2013 class shows. You don't think Urban Meyer could sign a top 5 class every year at ND?
2. Who is bothered by that? We're talking about recruiting kids almost entirely from Christian families, not newly-minted secular PhDs who are worried they won't "be accepted" at ND.
3. Have you been to Ohio or Michigan? It's the same.
4. With really tough teams such as Duke. Easier than many SEC schedules.
5. Most rules are barely enforced. You really have to $%* up to get in trouble.
6. ND should start paying more than others, no doubt about that.
7. See 6.

As for BK wanting to be here, I guess he wanted to be in Philly a little bit more? ND was clearly a step up from the UC job; it doesn't mean it was his final goal.

Your signature says that "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." They are the last virtues of a dying football program, too. Get over battered spouse syndrome and starting looking for somebody better.

 

[Meatloaf]

I'd take Herm Edwards at ND. And that'd never happen.

 

[IrishLax]

A few?

1. Academic requirements
2. Religious aspect of the school
3. School is in Indiana
4. Tough schedule year in year out
5. Res Life or whatever they call it now
6. ND doesn't pay as well as others
7. We really don't know what ND pays their assistants

ND got damn lucky with Kelly (Irish Catholic from Boston who always wanted ND) and 2009 there was no better job available.

By "exceptions" there are only a few schools you can even make the case of being more desirable to Candidate X than Notre Dame. I wasn't talking about ND issues. But while we're on the topic...

1. Academic requirements don't matter. ND can get in tons of talent. Weis and Kelly proved this, there are no coaches who see this as a serious hurdle especially with what Stanford has done. It is a myth that this is a turn off to ND... it was a turn off pre-Weis.

2. The religious aspect of the school is more pro than con, as there are tons of Catholic coaches that grew up fans. Ever FBS head coach is a Christian... and very few... basically only a handful of evangelicals... have a problem with ND's religion.

3. This does matter, but mainly for recruiting.

4. No coaches care about this. Every SEC West job has a harder schedule/bigger hurdle than ND. Every PAC12 job is just as hard because the conference has amazing depth. The only divisions where you get "easy" games are half the ACC, half the Big Ten... and I generally think the Big 12 stinks.

5. Doesn't matter.

6. Yes, we do... we pay our coordinators top dollar ($1 mil+ per BVG's salary) and BK is compensated in the top 10 when you add everything up. The next coach, if a big name, will make around $6mil/year. This isn't 2004.

7. Yes, we do.

 

[GATTACA!]

By "exceptions" there are only a few schools you can even make the case of being more desirable to Candidate X than Notre Dame. I wasn't talking about ND issues. But while we're on the topic...

1. Academic requirements don't matter. ND can get in tons of talent. Weis and Kelly proved this, there are no coaches who see this as a serious hurdle especially with what Stanford has done. It is a myth that this is a turn off to ND... it was a turn off pre-Weis.

2. The religious aspect of the school is more pro than con, as there are tons of Catholic coaches that grew up fans. Ever FBS head coach is a Christian... and very few... basically only a handful of evangelicals... have a problem with ND's religion.

3. This does matter, but mainly for recruiting.

4. No coaches care about this. Every SEC West job has a harder schedule/bigger hurdle than ND. Every PAC12 job is just as hard because the conference has amazing depth. The only divisions where you get "easy" games are half the ACC, half the Big Ten... and I generally think the Big 12 stinks.

5. Doesn't matter.

6. Yes, we do... we pay our coordinators top dollar ($1 mil+ per BVG's salary) and BK is compensated in the top 10 when you add everything up. The next coach, if a big name, will make around $6mil/year. This isn't 2004.

7. Yes, we do.

 

[arndtjc]

Was Bo the DC in addition to HC during his years there??

Bo Pelini had a DC on the sideline just as BK has an OC and co-OC. The defense ran through him and he ultimately made the final decisions and play calls


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[ThePiombino]

I think we need to back the Brink's truck into Aranda's driveway and hire him away from LSU. Best case is he's let go by the new HC who has his own guy, but if not - pay LSU whatever we need for rights to his contract or buyout or however it works. Match his 1.3 mil/yr. If BVG was worth 1 mil, this guy is worth prolly twice that, so 1.3 should be considered a steal by the ND admin.

** If not him, the Wake Forest guy should get a SERIOUS look.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think we need to back the Brink's truck into Aranda's driveway and hire him away from LSU. Best case is he's let go by the new HC who has his own guy, but if not - pay LSU whatever we need for rights to his contract or buyout or however it works. Match his 1.3 mil/yr. If BVG was worth 1 mil, this guy is worth prolly twice that, so 1.3 should be considered a steal by the ND admin.

** If not him, the Wake Forest guy should get a SERIOUS look.

I agree. Aranda is the best case scenario at this point. I wonder if they could give him some sort of incentive based contract. Like 1.3 mil guaranteed and an additional 100k if he fields a top 25 defense, another 100k if it's top 10, ect, ect.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

By "exceptions" there are only a few schools you can even make the case of being more desirable to Candidate X than Notre Dame. I wasn't talking about ND issues. But while we're on the topic...

1. Academic requirements don't matter. ND can get in tons of talent. Weis and Kelly proved this, there are no coaches who see this as a serious hurdle especially with what Stanford has done. It is a myth that this is a turn off to ND... it was a turn off pre-Weis.

2. The religious aspect of the school is more pro than con, as there are tons of Catholic coaches that grew up fans. Ever FBS head coach is a Christian... and very few... basically only a handful of evangelicals... have a problem with ND's religion.

3. This does matter, but mainly for recruiting.

4. No coaches care about this. Every SEC West job has a harder schedule/bigger hurdle than ND. Every PAC12 job is just as hard because the conference has amazing depth. The only divisions where you get "easy" games are half the ACC, half the Big Ten... and I generally think the Big 12 stinks.

5. Doesn't matter.

6. Yes, we do... we pay our coordinators top dollar ($1 mil+ per BVG's salary) and BK is compensated in the top 10 when you add everything up. The next coach, if a big name, will make around $6mil/year. This isn't 2004.

7. Yes, we do.

1. Yes, they absolutely do matter. Weis and Kelly recruited well, especially on offense. ND can't recruit enough difference makers. Go down the list of top 100 or 150 recruits in the country and see how many weren't offered by ND.

2. Religion can be more pro than con, but some high school kids look at ND like a Catholic seminary rather than a college.

3. Yes, and recruiting is the lifeblood of college football.

4. Agree to disagree.

5. Agree to disagree.

6. Point taken.

 

[irishff1014]

I am not suggesting this at all but if Bob gets fired from Uconn does Kelly call him?

 

[zelezo vlk]

I am not suggesting this at all but if Bob gets fired from Uconn does Kelly call him?

I thought that he had burned a few bridges during his stay in South Bend. Besides, we'd get another low effort recruiter.

 

[IrishLax]

1. Yes, they absolutely do matter. Weis and Kelly recruited well, especially on offense. ND can't recruit enough difference makers. Go down the list of top 100 or 150 recruits in the country and see how many weren't offered by ND

Between '11 and '13, Brian Kelly signed 8 defensive players that were rated as a 5-star by at least one service, 6 of which were composite 5-star players.

How many other schools signed 8 five star defensive players over a three year period? For comparison, in the last three recruiting classes ('14, '15, '16) Ohio State has signed 4 composite 5-star players on defense.

The only people that believe ND can't recruit "difference makers" are ones that want to make excuses for our staff not getting it done on the trail. It comes down to effort, sales, and having the correct product on the field.

 

[bluengold4732]

BK will be around for another year at least. Let's see how the team responds the rest of the season. Changes are being made and it appeared that the light has went on from the Syracuse presser...he seemed well aware that he has dug himself a hole now let's see if he can get himself out of it. I feel as though he may have gotten content with his results and began to fall off a bit...he's aware of the expectations at ND and knows that at the moment he's not meeting them. Kelly said he has a plan in place and will work harder and expect more, at the very least it's a start. We've seen players and the team fight through adversity now let's see if our coach practices what he preaches. If he holds himself and his coaches to a higher standard then you'll see the team do the same and it will produce better results on the field.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Between '11 and '13, Brian Kelly signed 8 defensive players that were rated as a 5-star by at least one service, 6 of which were composite 5-star players.

How many other schools signed 8 five star defensive players over a three year period? For comparison, in the last three recruiting classes ('14, '15, '16) Ohio State has signed 4 composite 5-star players on defense.

The only people that believe ND can't recruit "difference makers" are ones that want to make excuses for our staff not getting it done on the trail. It comes down to effort, sales, and having the correct product on the field.

If ND had the ability to recruit the top notch talent on defense, ND wouldn't have issues getting an elite DC. Elite DC's know they can do a lot more with more tools at places like USC, Ohio St, Texas, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Florida St, etc.

 

[IrishLax]

If ND had the ability to recruit the top notch talent on defense, ND wouldn't have issues getting an elite DC.

We don't have that issue....?

Diaco won Broyles Award and was an elite DC. Then BVG was considered an elite DC hire, given his Broyles Award, and historical performance pre-Auburn. We paid him top dollar specifically because we thought he was a great choice.

There is no evidence that we have "trouble getting an elite DC" under Kelly. He's hired two guys... one was great, the other was his first choice.

Elite DC's know they can do a lot more with more tools at places like USC, Ohio St, Texas, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Florida St, etc.

Again, no evidence of this. Like I said, ND recruited more elite talent over Kelly's initial three years (where he and the staff actually put effort into recruiting) than Ohio State has the last 3 classes. A lot of this stuff is just antiquated myths about the state of ND. Yes, you have more local talent in southern schools, but ND has access to as much talent as you could possibly need with the right staff doing the right recruiting. There is no DC that looks at Notre Dame and says "well shoot I won't take that job because it's going to be hard to recruit." That guy doesn't exist. The only guy that exists is the one that says "I don't want to be recruiting nationwide"... ultimately, what undid Diaco was that he got sick of the effort after two years and flat out refused to put in the travel and work needed of the position.

 

[mick2]

We don't have that issue....?

Diaco won Broyles Award and was an elite DC. Then BVG was considered an elite DC hire, given his Broyles Award, and historical performance pre-Auburn. We paid him top dollar specifically because we thought he was a great choice.

There is no evidence that we have "trouble getting an elite DC" under Kelly. He's hired two guys... one was great, the other was his first choice.



Again, no evidence of this. Like I said, ND recruited more elite talent over Kelly's initial three years (where he and the staff actually put effort into recruiting) than Ohio State has the last 3 classes. A lot of this stuff is just antiquated myths about the state of ND. Yes, you have more local talent in southern schools, but ND has access to as much talent as you could possibly need with the right staff doing the right recruiting. There is no DC that looks at Notre Dame and says "well shoot I won't take that job because it's going to be hard to recruit." That guy doesn't exist. The only guy that exists is the one that says "I don't want to be recruiting nationwide"... ultimately, what undid Diaco was that he got sick of the effort after two years and flat out refused to put in the travel and work needed of the position.

Really, I always thought of Diaco as a tireless recruiter, I was unaware that he refused to recruit?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Really, I always thought of Diaco as a tireless recruiter, I was unaware that he refused to recruit?

Most people only know of the Ishaq Williams 5am coffee story. That was the exception, not the norm.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Most people only know of the Ishaq Williams 5am coffee story. That was the exception, not the norm.

Personally, I think he had one foot out the door after 2012.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Personally, I think he had one foot out the door after 2012.

Yup. I think that was confirmed after it was announced that he was taking the UConn job.

 

[IrishLax]

Really, I always thought of Diaco as a tireless recruiter, I was unaware that he refused to recruit?

He recruited very hard in the 2011 class, and then in the 2012 class he basically got fed up with recruiting. By the 2013 class (so, during and after the 2012 season where we're dominating) he basically told Kelly he wasn't going to put in the leg work anymore. He was pretty much set to move on at that point. The next year, he was out the door.

 

[phillyirish]

We don't have that issue....?

Diaco won Broyles Award and was an elite DC. Then BVG was considered an elite DC hire, given his Broyles Award, and historical performance pre-Auburn. We paid him top dollar specifically because we thought he was a great choice.

There is no evidence that we have "trouble getting an elite DC" under Kelly. He's hired two guys... one was great, the other was his first choice.



Again, no evidence of this. Like I said, ND recruited more elite talent over Kelly's initial three years (where he and the staff actually put effort into recruiting) than Ohio State has the last 3 classes. A lot of this stuff is just antiquated myths about the state of ND. Yes, you have more local talent in southern schools, but ND has access to as much talent as you could possibly need with the right staff doing the right recruiting. There is no DC that looks at Notre Dame and says "well shoot I won't take that job because it's going to be hard to recruit." That guy doesn't exist. The only guy that exists is the one that says "I don't want to be recruiting nationwide"... ultimately, what undid Diaco was that he got sick of the effort after two years and flat out refused to put in the travel and work needed of the position.

Thats just simply not true. According to 247 composite, ND's hual over Kelly's first 3 years were 2011-9 2012-18, 2013-5. Including six 5 stars, with half of them transferring or getting kicked out (Lynch, Keil, Redfeild) but that shouldn't count against him. This year Ohio St. is number 1, matching our 3 year haul with six 5 stars already. But I guess we can't count this year since its not over yet, so over the past 3 years OSU finished 2016-4, 2015-7, 2014-3. Now depending on how quantify "elite" talent maybe you could argue because Kelly edged out in 5 stars over those spans 6-2. However if you look at top 100 prospects, its ND's 13 over its span to OSU's 23.

ND doesn't recruit bad at all, but OSU under Meyer is pretty much the only school that can threaten Saban's bama for the #1 class.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

We don't have that issue....?

Diaco won Broyles Award and was an elite DC. Then BVG was considered an elite DC hire, given his Broyles Award, and historical performance pre-Auburn. We paid him top dollar specifically because we thought he was a great choice.

There is no evidence that we have "trouble getting an elite DC" under Kelly. He's hired two guys... one was great, the other was his first choice.



Again, no evidence of this. Like I said, ND recruited more elite talent over Kelly's initial three years (where he and the staff actually put effort into recruiting) than Ohio State has the last 3 classes. A lot of this stuff is just antiquated myths about the state of ND. Yes, you have more local talent in southern schools, but ND has access to as much talent as you could possibly need with the right staff doing the right recruiting. There is no DC that looks at Notre Dame and says "well shoot I won't take that job because it's going to be hard to recruit." That guy doesn't exist. The only guy that exists is the one that says "I don't want to be recruiting nationwide"... ultimately, what undid Diaco was that he got sick of the effort after two years and flat out refused to put in the travel and work needed of the position.

First, ND has had trouble getting elite DC's for a long time. Minter, Corwin Brown, and Tenuta were certainly not elite. Diaco had one great year with a senior defense and a schedule that had no good offenses, and BVG was a disaster.

"That guy" does exist in the world of college football. If the DC job at ND is as glorious as you say it is, guys like Chavis, Venables, Durkin, Mike Stoops, Grantham, Smart, Bedford, Steele, Chizik, Aranda, etc. would be jumping up and down saying, "I want that job!", but that doesn't happen.

ND has to recruit nationally for two reasons: they aren't in a talent rich location, and they can only recruit a small portion of top level talent.