VOTE Election day 11/04/2014

[Irish YJ]

me too

 

[GoIrish41]

So lets ignore for a moment the veracity of your claims about there being stuff to be proud of...as all such claims apply a standard of "working" or "good" not universally experienced by all...and lets focus on the political strategy.

You seem to be alluding to the fact that all the political strategists and polsters don't have a clue...or that their view of things was simply ignored??? Put it this way, if the little propeller heads in the dark room thought that having folks tout the "accomplishments" you seem to think are brag worthy...don't you think that would have happened? Had the little propeller heads thought association with the President was a good thing, don't you think they'd have advised their folks to drag him in...

Is it possible more people currently DON'T like the results of the policies, now they can see results, and now the man is toxic?

The fact that the Democratic candidates are tied to those policies either way is the point I was driving at. So, now the Dems are tied to the policies that you contend that "people currently don't like," and on top of it they look disloyal, disorganized, and phony. I heard plenty of democratic strategists suggesting this very thing in the days and weeks leading up to the election.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah, I for one definitely put more weight on fiscal matters...

 

[pumpdog20]

Except I'm not. Which I've made crystal clear.

I just pointed out that there is an extremely basic and accepted Political Science principal that shows people with the "I can't believe you didn't vote" mantra are either uninformed or illogical. You pick. This is NOT opinion. It is also NOT opinion that your one singular vote treated as an independent choice for one individual HAS NEVER EVER MATTERED in United States federal elections.

And then I stated I, personally, made the choice to not vote because I personally was not willing/able to sacrifice the time. Which is my prerogative and nothing more.

We get it man, you hate America.

 

[Irish#1]

Depends. Plenty of items that can be passed through bipartisan methods. As much as we all like to believe there is gridlock, both major parties do have some bipartisan agreements on important issues. As far as the fundamental disagreements, that's always harder no matter who is in the majority. I will say this. I think it is very important that the Republican leadership show that they can get some things done. And that's gonna take some compromise on their part as well. To me, the key issue will be whether the President accepts what bipartisan measures come out from both houses. If he makes it difficult, all parties involved lose in the end.

I'd rep ya if I could, but I've got to spread the love.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'd rep ya if I could, but I've got to spread the love.

J, you've been around this place how long and you haven't bought the unlimited rep thingy?
Need a short term lone with high interest?

 

[bobbyok1]

Except I'm not. Which I've made crystal clear.

I just pointed out that there is an extremely basic and accepted Political Science principal that shows people with the "I can't believe you didn't vote" mantra are either uninformed or illogical. You pick. This is NOT opinion. It is also NOT opinion that your one singular vote treated as an independent choice for one individual HAS NEVER EVER MATTERED in United States federal elections.

And then I stated I, personally, made the choice to not vote because I personally was not willing/able to sacrifice the time. Which is my prerogative and nothing more.

I have no problem with the fact that you choose not to vote. That's your choice, part of being an American. And so I am not in the "I can't believe you didn't vote" crowd.

However, it seems as though you are not being genuine. You made it clear that you would be wasting your time to vote. That is very different from choosing not to vote. It is the reason you chose not to vote. Which again is your prerogative. But it also paints with a broad brush the whole of society, and that anyone who goes to vote is wasting their time. So really, your being just as harsh as those you so strongly speak against for their "I can't believe you didn't vote" stance.

Why? Voter's paradox is a very real thing. Your individual choice to vote or not vote is irrelevant to election results. I worked from 7 AM to 2 AM yesterday. No way I was wasting my time to wait in a 30 minute line.

I have no problem with the idea that one singular vote treated as an individual choice for one individual has never mattered in US federal elections. That still does not change the fact that you made voting out to be pointless for all.

 

[IrishLax]

OK I see where you're coming from here.

However, it seems as though you are not being genuine. You made it clear that you would be wasting your time to vote. That is very different from choosing not to vote. It is the reason you chose not to vote. Which again is your prerogative.

Exactly, and I see how you could imply I'm saying it's a "waste" for anyone... where really what I'm saying is to me it's a "waste" because my vote would not make any tangible impact on any policies/candidates I support AND my time spent elsewhere would be more productive or fun or in general have a higher net utility positive.

It's not a "waste" on any level to someone who derives any kind of utility from the process of voting, as that's all intrinsic to the person voting and opinion. I tried to say this in subsequent posts, but those posts were long and verbose so I understand if that didn't come through.

If that's the crux of everything, just change "waste" to "spend" and I think it better makes the point I was going for.

I have no problem with the idea that one singular vote treated as an individual choice for one individual has never mattered in US federal elections. That still does not change the fact that you made voting out to be pointless for all.

Ehhhh... definitely not "pointless for all"... and I do think that part is pretty clearly articulated.

 

[bobbyok1]

OK I see where you're coming from here.



Exactly, and I see how you could imply I'm saying it's a "waste" for anyone... where really what I'm saying is to me it's a "waste" because my vote would not make any tangible impact on any policies/candidates I support AND my time spent elsewhere would be more productive or fun or in general have a higher net utility positive.

It's not a "waste" on any level to someone who derives any kind of utility from the process of voting, as that's all intrinsic to the person voting and opinion. I tried to say this in subsequent posts, but those posts were long and verbose so I understand if that didn't come through.

If that's the crux of everything, just change "waste" to "spend" and I think it better makes the point I was going for.



Ehhhh... definitely not "pointless for all"... and I do think that part is pretty clearly articulated.

Looks like a case of misunderstanding. My bad for any part I had in that. I see now you were simply trying to articulate that it was not worth your time base upon your circumstances.

Feel a silly now for making it a bigger deal than it was. My bad bro

 

[dshans]

Agree with everything except the whole "Dirty liberal hippies aren't dumb" part....

Careful now. This is one dirty hippie liberal who not only has the power of speech, but also knows how to write cogently.



You're jus' one of them there incest prone rednecks, ain't ya?

 

[pkt77242]

OK, its a joke. Now what?

I think a legit third party of non-pandering, mindful, average Joes could restore some faith over time. With social media, messages should be easily and cheaply be disseminated. You have to start with Congress though. You should be able to find these well known, well liked individuals in most Congressional districts. If you got 10 or 20 Independent Congressmen, they suddenly become the tipping point votes for most legislation. They also get to caucus with either party, so guess what, they are always in positions of power and have leverage to negotiate key committee appointments.

Third party is the only way I see out of this mess, but on the legislative side, not executive.

I would love to get rid of parties all together. You run on your own ideas, strengths, and weaknesses. That way we remove the idea of being beholden to a party and we start focusing on solutions.

 

[Cackalacky]

me too

me three

Yeah, I for one definitely put more weight on fiscal matters...

I for one definitely put more weight on social matters.

Careful now. This is one dirty hippie liberal who not only has the power of speech, but also knows how to write cogently.



You're jus' one of them there incest prone rednecks, ain't ya?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

IMO, the Dems deserved to take the hit they took last night. They abandoned the president and his policies and treated him like a pariah. In doing so, they did not talk about the many months of job growth, the expansion of the economy, and health insurance being available to millions of uninsured Americans. They fell into the same old bad habit of letting the GOP set the agenda of issues, so in the days leading up to the election I heard politicians talking about how ISIS and ebola was Obama's fault, instead of having Democrat candidates pointing out how wrong the GOP was when they tried to reverse Obamacare 50 times. Their shameless disloyalty to the president and the priciples of the party almost ensured the losses they suffered last night. And now, the man that they treated as a leaper is the only thing that will prevent all of the progress that has been made from being systematically dismantled. I hope he has his veto pen ready as the GOP tries to roll back banking regulation, force the Keystone pipeline from threatening the environment, reversing the gains in insured citizens, and the gutting of the social safety net.

Haven't been able to post much lately. Engulfed in new job. Couldn't resist coming back for today and seeing this haha.

1) Dems abandoned Obama because he is their problem, not their solution. This election was about the Dems' failed policies, plain and simple. Repubs got the same in 2006, although not this ugly.

2) Talk about job growth? The economy? Middle class income is down 8% under Obama, the rich are getting richer, and we're at the lowest labor participation rate since WWII. Not much to brag about.

3) Obamacare: 28 senators who voted for it got their asses sent home. Americans want it repealed.

4) We will agree that very little is going to happen in the next 2 years. GOP should play its cards right for 2016 because Obama is still hell bent on fundamental transformation.

 

[Irish YJ]

Haven't been able to post much lately. Engulfed in new job. Couldn't resist coming back for today and seeing this haha.

1) Dems abandoned Obama because he is their problem, not their solution. This election was about the Dems' failed policies, plain and simple. Repubs got the same in 2006, although not this ugly.

2) Talk about job growth? The economy? Middle class income is down 8% under Obama, the rich are getting richer, and we're at the lowest labor participation rate since WWII. Not much to brag about.

3) Obamacare: 28 senators who voted for it got their asses sent home. Americans want it repealed.

4) We will agree that very little is going to happen in the next 2 years. GOP should play its cards right for 2016 because Obama is still hell bent on fundamental transformation.

Are you a governor or senator? lots of new hires I hear.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Are you a governor or senator? lots of new hires I hear.

Shhhhh...my chief of staff will take my tablet away if he sees me on IE.

 

[Irish YJ]

Shhhhh...my chief of staff will take my tablet away if he sees me on IE.

Hey Govna, just be you. Tell your CoS to kiss the hand.

 

[Irish#1]

J, you've been around this place how long and you haven't bought the unlimited rep thingy?
Need a short term lone with high interest?

What can I say, I'm cheap! I was counting on the charitable conscience of the IE faithful to come through. Disappointed again.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

Glad to see Harry Reid is no longer SML, he would not allow a senate vote on some good legislation. Maybe the ~2 trill can come back home.