VOTE Election day 11/04/2014

[GoIrish41]

Right. The Tallahassee AD didn't prosecute jameis winston. He obviously did nothing to that girl then.

The current administration and the AG have let it be known they are not prosecuting people for certain crimes. It doesn't mean that a crime still didn't occur.

So, any groundless accusation with partisan connotation should be taken seriously because the star QB of a corrupt university got away with rape of a girl who reported it to the authorities? Got it.

 

[Irish YJ]

So, any groundless accusation with partisan connotation should be taken seriously because the star QB of a corrupt university got away with rape of a girl who reported it to the authorities? Got it.

Goes along with the groundless speculation that voter fraud is happening only in small numbers.

 

[pkt77242]

You do realize that all of those articles are written by pretty partisan individuals right? Not saying there isn't some truth but don't you think that could influence their reporting?

 

[pkt77242]

I thought liberals wanted proactive government and government that works for the people. Doesn't presenting a laundry list of hoops to jump through help prevent bank fraud, illegal firearm sales and possession, mortgage fraud, etc.? At least that is what liberals have told us-- government intervention is helping make us safer and protecting our property better.

How is requiring an ID to vote not in line with that thinking? Won't people who were going to commit voter fraud now dissuaded from doing so?

Seriously how many times does this have to be repeated, the majority of voter fraud isn't show up claiming to be someone else and vote, it is done by vote by mail or people who work the precincts. Most in person voter fraud as RDU article points out wouldn't even be stopped by ID requirements as they were college kids who showed up to vote and were registered in another area, or convicted felons who weren't stricken from the voter rolls, etc. Not something that voter ID solves.

 

[pkt77242]

Goes along with the groundless speculation that voter fraud is happening only in small numbers.

Nope, no groundless speculation, just going by the cases prosecuted. Also as I have pointed out I don't think there is no voter fraud, I just believe that in-person voter fraud of claiming that you are someone else (which is what Voter ID laws are meant to stop) are extremely rare. Again most voter fraud has nothing to do with voter ID. It is vote by mail, people working the precincts, people voting at the wrong precinct, people voting by mail and then voting in person, etc. Nothing to do with voter ID.

 

[Irish YJ]

You do realize that all of those articles are written by pretty partisan individuals right? Not saying there isn't some truth but don't you think that could influence their reporting?

If the topic is voter fraud, why not end the partisan BS (which I hate) by simply requiring and ID? An ID is a basic requirement for 99% of what we do in life. The 1% in which it is not required is voting. I find the whole argument, and all the speculation, simply unsound from a logical perspective. To vote is a right, a privilege, and a civic duty. We've made voting easier these days than ever before. IMO those that are fighting the ID requirements are holding onto ideology that would not hold a raindrop in any other conversation (banking, driving, etc.). And if they are not holding onto that ideology, they are part of the fraud issue itself.

 

[pkt77242]

If the topic is voter fraud, why not end the partisan BS (which I hate) by simply requiring and ID? An ID is a basic requirement for 99% of what we do in life. The 1% in which it is not required is voting. I find the whole argument, and all the speculation, simply unsound from a logical perspective. To vote is a right, a privilege, and a civic duty. We've made voting easier these days than ever before. IMO those that are fighting the ID requirements are holding onto ideology that would not hold a raindrop in any other conversation (banking, driving, etc.). And if they are not holding onto that ideology, they are part of the fraud issue itself.

Have you read anything that I have actually typed? Seriously? Voter ID won't prevent voter fraud because the type of fraud that Voter ID laws stop is so small as to be worthless. The type of fraud that does happen has nothing to do with IDs. It has to do with vote by mail, people working the precincts, convicted felons not being removed from the rolls, college students voting in areas they aren't registered, etc. Lets fix the real issues in our system not the made up ones. We have a shitty system, but voter ID won't fix that. So when you criticize me as holding onto an outdated ideology or being part of the fraud (both of which are trending into the belittling the person territory) I tell you again that you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Not that voter fraud doesn't exist on a significant level. Fix the real fucking problems not the made up shit.

 

[Irish YJ]

Nope, no groundless speculation, just going by the cases prosecuted. Also as I have pointed out I don't think there is no voter fraud, I just believe that in-person voter fraud of claiming that you are someone else (which is what Voter ID laws are meant to stop) are extremely rare. Again most voter fraud has nothing to do with voter ID. It is vote by mail, people working the precincts, people voting at the wrong precinct, people voting by mail and then voting in person, etc. Nothing to do with voter ID.

Again, your assumption is that all crime, or a large portion of crime, regardless of what it is, is prosecuted.

It also assumes that in-person voter fraud would be easy to detect and prosecuted. How the hell do you detect in-person voter fraud when a person needs nothing to vote or prove who they are.

Question... would you put your money in a bank that did not require ID to withdraw funds? If you say no, why not. Shouldn't we trust people to be naturally good? Aren't we stepping on the rights of people?

 

[pkt77242]

Again, your assumption is that all crime, or a large portion of crime, regardless of what it is, is prosecuted.

It also assumes that in-person voter fraud would be easy to detect and prosecuted. How the hell do you detect in-person voter fraud when a person needs nothing to vote or prove who they are.

Question... would you put your money in a bank that did not require ID to withdraw funds? If you say no, why not. Shouldn't we trust people to be naturally good? Aren't we stepping on the rights of people?

Even the conservative articles that others linked mostly talked about the other types of voter fraud and they admitted that the biggest fraud is vote by mail. Even the conservatives admitted that in the article.

Do you know why that is? Because it is easy to do mass amounts in a short period. Going to the polls and acting as someone else takes time and then you have to move on to a different polling station that takes time. They don't do it because there are easier and more efficient ways to commit the fraud in our system that don't put you at risk of being caught in person.

As to the last part banking isn't a right so what right would you be speaking of?

Also as I have stated I am not necessarily against some form of voter ID law but I am against the partisan laws the past few years that are only meant to dissuade a certain segment from voting (as two republicans have said one in Pennsylvania and one in Florida). I think that you should be able to vote if you bring your social security card or birth certificate, or hell even maybe a bank statement (I could go either way on this one).

 

[Wild Bill]

Voter ID laws disenfranchise poor people but poverty is more prevalent amongst minorities so it disproportionally hurts them more.

Also as I have stated I am not necessarily against some form of voter ID law but I am against the partisan laws the past few years that are only meant to dissuade a certain segment from voting (as two republicans have said one in Pennsylvania and one in Florida). I think that you should be able to vote if you bring your social security card or birth certificate, or hell even maybe a bank statement (I could go either way on this one).

Not sure if anyone can dispute the stats in the article but they suggest the opposite.

More evidence voter ID laws don't suppress minority voting | Kyle Wingfield | www.ajc.com

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, four states (including Georgia) have "strict" photo ID requirements. Another seven have photo ID requirements. Here's how black turnout compared to white turnout in those 11 states:
In five (Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Michigan and Tennessee) black turnout surpassed white turnout.
In four (Kansas, Louisiana, New Hampshire and South Dakota) there was no statistical difference between black and white turnout rates.
In two (Hawaii and Idaho) white turnout surpassed black turnout.

 

[Buster Bluth]

As mentioned earlier, I served on a grand jury and during that time we indicted a fellow for voter fraud. The guy was a bit of a transient and voted in the city where he wasn't living at the time. He was sloppy with his voting, and now he's a felon facing years behind bars.

I believe the penalty for impersonating someone else or voting multiple times is like five years. And that's not even for the political entity that would have been orchestrating it.

Simply saying, I think you're kidding yourself if you think there are political parties out there pushing for the sort of voter fraud that voter ID regulations would eliminate. With all of the money they spend on politics for votes, isn't it like $10/vote? You think people are willing to risk years in prison for something effectively worth $10? I doubt it.

John Fund: Wisconsin and the Voter Fraud Agenda - WSJ

Fun article for those of you that think there have only been a couple dozen cases of voter fraud in the history of our country.

In that article:

Its February 2008 report found that from 4,600 to 5,300 more votes were counted in Milwaukee than the number of voters recorded as having cast ballots. Absentee ballots were cast by people living elsewhere; ineligible felons not only voted but worked at the polls; transient college students cast improper votes; and homeless voters possibly voted more than once.

...voter ID won't stop any of that. In fact nothing brought up in that article would be solved by voter ID regulations.

Goes along with the groundless speculation that voter fraud is happening only in small numbers.

Isn't this line of thinking known as "argument from ignorance?"

 

[Irish YJ]

Even the conservative articles that others linked mostly talked about the other types of voter fraud and they admitted that the biggest fraud is vote by mail. Even the conservatives admitted that in the article.

Do you know why that is? Because it is easy to do mass amounts in a short period. Going to the polls and acting as someone else takes time and then you have to move on to a different polling station that takes time. They don't do it because there are easier and more efficient ways to commit the fraud in our system that don't put you at risk of being caught in person.

As to the last part banking isn't a right so what right would you be speaking of?

Also as I have stated I am not necessarily against some form of voter ID law but I am against the partisan laws the past few years that are only meant to dissuade a certain segment from voting (as two republicans have said one in Pennsylvania and one in Florida). I think that you should be able to vote if you bring your social security card or birth certificate, or hell even maybe a bank statement (I could go either way on this one).

First, I agree that there are other more widespread instances of voting fraud. but that does not mean you can't do simple things to prevent lesser volume instances.

Regarding banking be a right. It's not a "right" listed in the DoI, or BoR, but I would draw your attention to the 9th amendment.

My basic point is that everyone should be able to bank..... if you agree with that, there are some common sense measures that are required to keep things on the up and up. why is it not ok to apply the same logical and simple measures to voting. we are passed the days when everyone knew your name at the local voting precinct.

 

[Buster Bluth]

First, I agree that there are other more widespread instances of voting fraud. but that does not mean you can't do simple things to prevent lesser volume instances.

why is it not ok to apply the same logical and simple measures to voting.

There's nothing wrong with it, per se. Just know that 100% of the motivation from the state legislatures for passing it is to stop a disproportionate amount of Democrats from voting. It'll shave a tiny percentage off, but it counts.

I'm not totally against voter ID laws either, but let's be real...it's a politically brilliant move by the GOP to stop practically nonexistent voter fraud in a way that also stops a small amount of legitimate people from voting.

we are passed the days when everyone knew your name at the local voting precinct.

There is footage out there specifically showing elderly people showing up with an expired license and being turned away by people they have known for decades.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

At the bottom of page 3, I stated that I was pissed that I have to give an ID to vote. Then I went out and had a wonderful afternoon. I checked back; is there a post since then in this thread that has been about anything but promoting a political agenda?

The reason I get pissed at the voting booth is the same reason I get pissed having to show ID at my kids elementary school. I have had three students start in kindergarten and complete the fifth grade and move on, but I still have two kids at that elementary school. I have had a student in that school since the year 2000. I have been walking in and out of that school as an involved parent, or volunteer longer than about half of the teachers and most of the administrators have been! Why does that piss me off? The general level of insanity of asking me for an ID when you know damned well who I am. Did you search me for a weapon? No. I suppose that priority is so the paper get the names right the next time!

You all can turn this into a political conversation if you want, but I am pissed that my rights have been curtailed, necessarily mostly, by the actions of the crazy. That would include mentally ill mass murderers, political operatives, bureaucrats, cheaters, and liars of all persuasion.

There was more cheating in the 60, 68, 72, and 2000 election than anyone would believe. And they were much cleaner than some of the nineteenth century elections, by far! I know most of you have no idea at all, but there was an "anti-Catholic" book about murder, abortion, all in the convent setting that was an "expose" of Catholicism to warn good God fearing Americans about the evils of electing a Catholic in '60; and some of you wonder why fan bases hate ND and Catholics so bad!

But the way political agendas have moved, those of us in the middle are caught in a bind by the crazies at either end. Added with the crazies that are criminals, and not capable of civil human behavior, the stupid ass politicians of every major party, (they are not really stupid, just overly focused on a narrow agenda), are making it worse.

I want to hear some truth :

If you want a poor underclass and refuse to eradicate it, be honest and bring back slavery.

If you expect everyone to live with your values and perspectives, eliminate schools, and teachers, and institute firing squads.

If you want to eliminate voter fraud, attack where the fraud is being committed. It isn't individual voters with fake ID's. Do you know how irrational that kneejerk reaction sounds? FOLLOW THE MONEY. I just saw today how an election can be thrown by modern high fangled voting machines, without a single fraudulent voter showing up at the polls!

Give me a break!

And that picture of Nelson Mandela. Shows you how stupid some people are! See anyone with intelligence would know that Nelson Mandela wasn't from America, and never involved himself in any American issue, for fear of alienating any group. If someone were intelligent they would check the awful apartheid history of South Africa, and see how ID's were used there.

I personally find it an insult that some stupid motherfvcker would turn the image of Nelson Mandela from the champion of freedom he was, into a conflated spokesman for the anti-poor, anti-black forces, trying to manipulate public sentiment.

Stupidity doesn't make me mad. Stupid people that want to take away my rights, either because my beliefs are different, or they lack the imagination to really solve problems, and add to them by not making a situation better, and still restricting my freedom for no good reason; now I rail against that!

If you want to know my perspective, check the Chaos Theory, Wisdom of the Crowd, specifically. My problem with any political agenda is when they try to take the crowd out of it.

There are a ways of certifying a voter, if that is what you want. All at no cost to the individual voter. But I don't believe that is the point of the debate. The true voter fraud is with those that operate the machines.

 

[T Town Tommy]

There is footage out there specifically showing elderly people showing up with an expired license and being turned away by people they have known for decades.

And there is video out there showing Black Panthers with baseball bats at polling places. Trying to limit people's right to vote is not party specific.

I agree with pk in the fact that the majority of voter fraud is through absentee ballots, mailin ballots, etc. But I also agree with YJ in the fact that having a simple ID to show you are exactly who you say you are in order to vote makes sense.

Colorado will see so much voter fraud based on their lax voting laws and any tightly contested race such as the one for their current Senate seat could be hugely affected.

There is common sense ways to make voting as pure as possible without people crying one way or the other. And if anyone is against common sense laws that uphold One Person One Vote, then I don't have much use for them... Republican, Democrat, or whatever affiliation they claim.

 

[T Town Tommy]

At the bottom of page 3, I stated that I was pissed that I have to give an ID to vote. Then I went out and had a wonderful afternoon. I checked back; is there a post since then in this thread that has been about anything but promoting a political agenda?

The reason I get pissed at the voting booth is the same reason I get pissed having to show ID at my kids elementary school. I have had three students start in kindergarten and complete the fifth grade and move on, but I still have two kids at that elementary school. I have had a student in that school since the year 2000. I have been walking in and out of that school as an involved parent, or volunteer longer than about half of the teachers and most of the administrators have been! Why does that piss me off? The general level of insanity of asking me for an ID when you know damned well who I am. Did you search me for a weapon? No. I suppose that priority is so the paper get the names right the next time!

You all can turn this into a political conversation if you want, but I am pissed that my rights have been curtailed, necessarily mostly, by the actions of the crazy. That would include mentally ill mass murderers, political operatives, bureaucrats, cheaters, and liars of all persuasion.

There was more cheating in the 60, 68, 72, and 2000 election than anyone would believe. And they were much cleaner than some of the nineteenth century elections, by far! I know most of you have no idea at all, but there was an "anti-Catholic" book about murder, abortion, all in the convent setting that was an "expose" of Catholicism to warn good God fearing Americans about the evils of electing a Catholic in '60; and some of you wonder why fan bases hate ND and Catholics so bad!

But the way political agendas have moved, those of us in the middle are caught in a bind by the crazies at either end. Added with the crazies that are criminals, and not capable of civil human behavior, the stupid ass politicians of every major party, (they are not really stupid, just overly focused on a narrow agenda), are making it worse.

I want to hear some truth :

If you want a poor underclass and refuse to eradicate it, be honest and bring back slavery.

If you expect everyone to live with your values and perspectives, eliminate schools, and teachers, and institute firing squads.

If you want to eliminate voter fraud, attack where the fraud is being committed. It isn't individual voters with fake ID's. Do you know how irrational that kneejerk reaction sounds? FOLLOW THE MONEY. I just saw today how an election can be thrown by modern high fangled voting machines, without a single fraudulent voter showing up at the polls!

Give me a break!

And that picture of Nelson Mandela. Shows you how stupid some people are! See anyone with intelligence would know that Nelson Mandela wasn't from America, and never involved himself in any American issue, for fear of alienating any group. If someone were intelligent they would check the awful apartheid history of South Africa, and see how ID's were used there.

I personally find it an insult that some stupid motherfvcker would turn the image of Nelson Mandela from the champion of freedom he was, into a conflated spokesman for the anti-poor, anti-black forces, trying to manipulate public sentiment.

Stupidity doesn't make me mad. Stupid people that want to take away my rights, either because my beliefs are different, or they lack the imagination to really solve problems, and add to them by not making a situation better, and still restricting my freedom for no good reason; now I rail against that!

If you want to know my perspective, check the Chaos Theory, Wisdom of the Crowd, specifically. My problem with any political agenda is when they try to take the crowd out of it.

There are a ways of certifying a voter, if that is what you want. All at no cost to the individual voter. But I don't believe that is the point of the debate. The true voter fraud is with those that operate the machines.

I had no problem whatsoever showing my ID to pick up my kids at school back in the day. None. Even though I knew the people at the front desk.

The socialist political agenda by our current President has done as much as possible to keep people poor and their need for the government to take care of them basically makes the taxpayers in America the real slave owners.

The most recent conversations in this thread is about ways to prevent voter fraud. And it's a conversation that should be had. Any way to make sure the election system is pure is fine by me. And there are many common sense ways to go about doing just that without costing voters one red cent.

 

[pkt77242]

First, I agree that there are other more widespread instances of voting fraud. but that does not mean you can't do simple things to prevent lesser volume instances.

Regarding banking be a right. It's not a "right" listed in the DoI, or BoR, but I would draw your attention to the 9th amendment.

My basic point is that everyone should be able to bank..... if you agree with that, there are some common sense measures that are required to keep things on the up and up. why is it not ok to apply the same logical and simple measures to voting. we are passed the days when everyone knew your name at the local voting precinct.

I completely disagree with the bold part. The 9th amendment has nothing to do with banking, and I understand that we can have rights that aren't listed, banking is not one. I also disagree that everyone should be able to bank.

Again I am not anti some voter ID laws but the voter ID laws enacted in the last few years aren't for the good of society and they are not trying to prevent voter fraud. They are purely partisan tools to try and help Republicans win elections.

 

[Irish YJ]

There's nothing wrong with it, per se. Just know that 100% of the motivation from the state legislatures for passing it is to stop a disproportionate amount of Democrats from voting. It'll shave a tiny percentage off, but it counts.

I'm not totally against voter ID laws either, but let's be real...it's a politically brilliant move by the GOP to stop practically nonexistent voter fraud in a way that also stops a small amount of legitimate people from voting.



There is footage out there specifically showing elderly people showing up with an expired license and being turned away by people they have known for decades.

If Dems are worried about the small % let them put more energy into registering and helping folks get their ID cards. IMO, if you can make it to the poll, you can make it to the DMV. I know of a 94 year old that has leukemia that still maintains her ID, and still votes. she's not well off, NOT a republican, but takes her civic duty seriously. hats off to her!

For the record, I wish EVERYONE would vote. I also wish they would educate themselves on the issues and not vote along party lines just because they are a certain race, certain religion, or grew up in a family that always voted XXX. I'm sick of partisan BS. I have utterly lost faith in everything government. That said, I preserve my right to bi+ch, moan, and preach common sense by voting every election.

PS... I'm a proud GDI. Moderately liberal environmentalist and many other things, conservative economist. Staunch believer in education, and that people that don't vote should shut the fuc% up.

 

[ACamp1900]

For the record, I wish EVERYONE would vote. I also wish they would educate themselves on the issues and not vote along party lines just because they are a certain race, certain religion, or grew up in a family that always voted XXX.

I disagree with you there... the part that is not highlighted eludes to why I feel that way...

 

[Buster Bluth]

And there is video out there showing Black Panthers with baseball bats at polling places.

Did you even read what I was responding to?

From "we are passed the days when everyone knew your name" to "well actually there's footage of that..." to "OMG BLACK PANTHER!!" Come on man.

Trying to limit people's right to vote is not party specific.

Why condone any of it?

But I also agree with YJ in the fact that having a simple ID to show you are exactly who you say you are in order to vote makes sense.

A simple valid ID is the problem. Many old people and poor people just aren't on the ball to have their shit in order, regardless of whether their face is on there proving they are indeed the person voting. It's getting people not to vote solely on technicalities. It's petty and, sadly, very American.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I had no problem whatsoever showing my ID to pick up my kids at school back in the day. None. Even though I knew the people at the front desk.

The socialist political agenda by our current President has done as much as possible to keep people poor and their need for the government to take care of them basically makes the taxpayers in America the real slave owners.

The most recent conversations in this thread is about ways to prevent voter fraud. And it's a conversation that shopuld be had. Any way to make sure the election system is pure is fine by me. And there are many common sense ways to go about doing just that without costing voters one red cent.

A) I see that as a sign of the times. Sort of the collective insanity of following idiots, like sheep.

B) I was trying to touch on that in my post. Both candidates in a presidential election are OWNED. There is very little difference between one and another in any meaningful political way. There is a quiz out there that lists major accomplishments of administrations, and it would take someone wicked good to get above a 40%, because once you take accomplishments out of the political references and rhetoric of the day, it all starts looking alike. My only final get is that someone that convinced you that our current president had any agenda other than cleaning up the financial mess his bosses made doesn't know what a socialist political agenda is, or that person is playing on racist inclinations of a population.

C) Nobody other than me has talked about stopping machine fraud. I just watched poll workers download eight successive incorrect ballots, which by definition kept those voters from their right to cast a ballot. All the voters were ID'd, and I reported the incident, and swore out an affidavit, while it was all fresh in my mind. This is a close issue that will make a difference to my community, and it is being strongly opposed by outside interests. So I don't know if it was accidental or not. But it taught me the real power was in mis-feeding the instructions to electronic ballot machines. This way of doing it shows no fraud unless you have a way of going back and counting exactly how many of each type of ballot should be cast!

 

[pkt77242]

Not sure if anyone can dispute the stats in the article but they suggest the opposite.

More evidence voter ID laws don't suppress minority voting | Kyle Wingfield | www.ajc.com

I don't know about disputing the stats, but just because more African Americans voted during an election with an African American Presentational Candidate in it doesn't mean that it didn't suppress voters.

The best links that I have right now are
From the GAO
Report: Voter ID laws reduce turnout more among African American and younger voters - The Washington Post
and
a Nate Silver article
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/measuring-the-effects-of-voter-identification-laws/

 

[Irish YJ]

I disagree with you there... the part that is not highlighted eludes to why I feel that way...

LOL, Agree!!!!
I should have put B before A, or A conditional on B.

 

[T Town Tommy]

A simple valid ID is the problem. Old people and poor people just aren't on the ball to have their shit in order, regardless of whether their face is on there proving they are indeed the person voting. It's getting people not to vote solely on technicalities. It's petty and sadly very America.

Asking one to provide an ID to vote is no different than asking them to provide ID to cash their check, withdraw money from a bank, open a credit account, or to sign the latest cell phone contract. What's un-American is letting people vote that aren't eligible to vote or allowing lax voting laws allow them to take advantage of the system. The argument that a simple ID - even one provided free of charge in most states - restricts people from voting is fairly weak IMO. Even with the old and the poor.

My stand is pretty simple. Clean up fraud where it exists. And I do believe the overwhelming majority is from polling place workers, mail in, and absentee ballots. The ID card is just one idea in many. It won't fix fraud... but it can help.

 

[Irish YJ]

Asking one to provide an ID to vote is no different than asking them to provide ID to cash their check, withdraw money from a bank, open a credit account, or to sign the latest cell phone contract. What's un-American is letting people vote that aren't eligible to vote or allowing lax voting laws allow them to take advantage of the system. The argument that a simple ID - even one provided free of charge in most states - restricts people from voting is fairly weak IMO. Even with the old and the poor.

My stand is pretty simple. Clean up fraud where it exists. And I do believe the overwhelming majority is from polling place workers, mail in, and absentee ballots. The ID card is just one idea in many. It won't fix fraud... but it can help.

too much logic 3T

 

[pkt77242]

Asking one to provide an ID to vote is no different than asking them to provide ID to cash their check, withdraw money from a bank, open a credit account, or to sign the latest cell phone contract. What's un-American is letting people vote that aren't eligible to vote or allowing lax voting laws allow them to take advantage of the system. The argument that a simple ID - even one provided free of charge in most states - restricts people from voting is fairly weak IMO. Even with the old and the poor.

My stand is pretty simple. Clean up fraud where it exists. And I do believe the overwhelming majority is from polling place workers, mail in, and absentee ballots. The ID card is just one idea in many. It won't fix fraud... but it can help.

They are not truly free of charge at least when you look at the real cost.

The Challenge of Obtaining Voter Identification | Brennan Center for Justice

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>ABC News already projects Tom Wolf (D) to be Pennsylvania's next governor. <a href="http://t.co/NopReeH6HZ">http://t.co/NopReeH6HZ</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WNEPVotes?src=hash">#WNEPVotes</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WNEP2">@WNEP2</a> <a href="http://t.co/kjv1Njj0Zk">pic.twitter.com/kjv1Njj0Zk</a></p>— Bill Wadell (@BillWadell) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillWadell/status/529802636967415808">November 5, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

YES!!!!!!!

 

[Buster Bluth]

Asking one to provide an ID to vote is no different than asking them to provide ID to cash their check, withdraw money from a bank, open a credit account, or to sign the latest cell phone contract.

Credit accounts? Phone contracts? Cashing checks? Dude...we're talking about the elderly and people in poverty. Believe it or not, a certain amount of them don't even have the means to do that.

What's un-American is letting people vote that aren't eligible to vote or allowing lax voting laws allow them to take advantage of the system.

I didn't say anything was unamerican. I said it was sadly very American. You know, disenfranchising minorities through election regulations. You're from the south, you know all about it.

The argument that a simple ID - even one provided free of charge in most states - restricts people from voting is fairly weak IMO. Even with the old and the poor.

The proof is right there though. A small number of people didn't vote because their ID expired. Most of them were Democrats.

I agree with you, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. That's why I said I'm not totally against it. But are you accepting that it is all a political game to stop a small amount of Democrats from voting? Because that's exactly what it is.

My stand is pretty simple. Clean up fraud where it exists. And I do believe the overwhelming majority is from polling place workers, mail in, and absentee ballots. The ID card is just one idea in many. It won't fix fraud... but it can help.

There is more irony in that statement than matter in the universe. We're talking about a fraud-free election for literally the epicenter of corruption on the planet. If our legislators we're interested in fine-tuning our government there are about a thousand other places to start. But, they're really not interested in that. They're interested in the game...win those elections!

 

[connor_in]

Asking one to provide an ID to vote is no different than asking them to provide ID to cash their check, withdraw money from a bank, open a credit account, or to sign the latest cell phone contract. What's un-American is letting people vote that aren't eligible to vote or allowing lax voting laws allow them to take advantage of the system. The argument that a simple ID - even one provided free of charge in most states - restricts people from voting is fairly weak IMO. Even with the old and the poor.

My stand is pretty simple. Clean up fraud where it exists. And I do believe the overwhelming majority is from polling place workers, mail in, and absentee ballots. The ID card is just one idea in many. It won't fix fraud... but it can help.

Way to be ageist, sexist, racist, genderist, homophobic, etc.

 

[Irish YJ]

Credit accounts? Phone contracts? Cashing checks? Dude...we're talking about the elderly and people in poverty. Believe it or not, a certain amount of them don't even have the means to do that.



I didn't say anything was unamerican. I said it was sadly very American. You know, disenfranchising minorities through election regulations. You're from the south, you know all about it.



The proof is right there though. A small number of people didn't vote because their ID expired. Most of them were Democrats.

I agree with you, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. That's why I said I'm not totally against it. But are you accepting that it is all a political game to stop a small amount of Democrats from voting? Because that's exactly what it is.



There is more irony in that statement than matter in the universe. We're talking about a fraud-free election for literally the epicenter of corruption on the planet. If our legislators we're interested in fine-tuning our government there are about a thousand other places to start. But, they're really not interested in that. They're interested in the game...win those elections!

if it is all a game, why are you not totally against it?
I think your logical side is trying to show through, but your partisan ideology is prohibiting that from happening

your partisan ideology > logic