VOTE Election day 11/04/2014

[RDU Irish]

North Carolina has voter ID taking effect for the 2016 election and it passed quite a while ago so it has time to be challenged in courts. I think we can both agree that they did it "right" in not cramming it down the pike in the 11th hour.

 

[wizards8507]

North Carolina has voter ID taking effect for the 2016 election and it passed quite a while ago so it has time to be challenged in courts. I think we can both agree that they did it "right" in not cramming it down the pike in the 11th hour.

That's the way to do it. Plenty of lead time. I don't believe that, in 2014, there's a single person in America who can't procure identification with two years plus of notice.

 

[RDU Irish]

Working people are disenfranchised by the voting process. Welfare recipients have an unfair advantage in their abundant free time to go vote. Therefore - poor people have an unfair voting advantage.

 

[GoIrish41]

North Carolina has voter ID taking effect for the 2016 election and it passed quite a while ago so it has time to be challenged in courts. I think we can both agree that they did it "right" in not cramming it down the pike in the 11th hour.

We do agree. They did the voter ID law right. They did, go a little bonkers when it came to some of their other election laws over the past few years though.

 

[RDU Irish]

102 percent of the people can vote now. How 'bout we don't spend millions of dollars or burden voters (you ever been to the DMV?) to solve a problem that I believe does not exist.

FIFY

 

[RDU Irish]

We do agree. They did the voter ID law right. They did, go a little bonkers when it came to some of their other election laws over the past few years though.

That is how the pendulum swings, brother.

 

[GoIrish41]

FIFY

show me where you get your 102% number and I'll abridge my statement to include "I believe." The fact is that you have convinced yourself that there a problem with voter fraud in the absence of any evidence to demonstrate that it is true. There is really no point in discussing this with you when you are making up your own facts as we go along.

 

[pkt77242]

Honestly, I don't think you know what disenfranchise means.

"Black people can't vote" is disenfranchisement because a black man is a black man and there's nothing to be done about it.

"Women can't vote" is disenfranchisement because a woman is a woman and there's nothing to be done about it.

"People without an ID can't vote" is NOT disenfranchisement because there's virtually zero burden on an individual without an ID to go out and GET ONE. He can leave the category of "person without an ID" easily; therefore "person without an ID" is not a protected class.

You state easily because of where you stand. An elderly minority who can not drive is burdened to go get a State ID. Hell for a working class poor person it might be a burden. We take it for granted because it is easy for us to take time off of work (Vacation time, personal time, etc) but for many working poor, vacation time is non-existent and DMVs are mostly open during working hours so to get a driver's license they need to take unpaid time off of work to go and get it which hurts their already limited means to pay bills, rent etc. On top of that in some states you need a birth certificate to get a State ID so if you don't have you birth certificate you need to get one first then go to the DMV. Not only are you talking about a day or more lost wages, you are talking about cost (most states do charge for DL and State IDs) and even the ID is free if you have to get a birth certificate that is an expense.


Everything You’ve Ever Wanted to Know About Voter ID Laws - ProPublica

 

[RDU Irish]

I have witnessed it. I am also not naïve enough to think that every crime ever committed is caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Catholics_Rule]

I received my degree in Political Science, I used to get excited during this time of the year. Now I can't stomach it any longer. With my degree and internships the people that actually got it right was South Park. Our choices are between a Douche and a Turd Sandwich.

 

[pkt77242]

I have witnessed it. I am also not naïve enough to think that every crime ever committed is caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Really? Whoever said that if I don't see it it doesn't exist? I am just pointing out what is provable. Also just because you have seen it doesn't mean that it is widespread. Talk about a red herring. There have even been a few Republicans who have gone on record to say that the point of Voter ID laws (and also restricting early voting days) are being passed to lower turnout amongst Democrats.

I am for sensible voting laws, but there is a reason that the states passing the laws are heavily Republican (and for that matter the same reason we see gerrymandered congressional districts though that applies to both parties).

 

[pkt77242]

I received my degree in Political Science, I used to get excited during this time of the year. Now I can't stomach it any longer. With my degree and internships the people that actually got it right was South Park. Our choices are between a Douche and a Turd Sandwich.

Now this I agree with.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have witnessed it. I am also not naïve enough to think that every crime ever committed is caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I think I have, About three cycles ago (May have been the first Obama election, it was around that time) I saw pollsters give roughly ten ballots each to two individuals right in front of me in line... my family used to go vote together and my mom flipped a shit, "Why are they getting multiple ballots? Did you even bother to check their ID's? Why are they special enough to get a handful of ballots?? Everyone else only gets one each right?" My mom is pretty mild mannered and it's fair to say she made 'a scene' that day. Those working the polls basically looked at each other and ignored my mother... at the time I was embarrassed by her reaction more than anything, but as timed has passed I would as least like to know the story there... and I know this, I worked on a winning House campaign in 2000 and many of the higher level campaign workers were pretty openly and seriously discussing different ideas on how to pull off voter fraud... though I didn't witness anything actually come of it.

 

[Irish YJ]

You state easily because of where you stand. An elderly minority who can not drive is burdened to go get a State ID. Hell for a working class poor person it might be a burden. We take it for granted because it is easy for us to take time off of work (Vacation time, personal time, etc) but for many working poor, vacation time is non-existent and DMVs are mostly open during working hours so to get a driver's license they need to take unpaid time off of work to go and get it which hurts their already limited means to pay bills, rent etc. On top of that in some states you need a birth certificate to get a State ID so if you don't have you birth certificate you need to get one first then go to the DMV. Not only are you talking about a day or more lost wages, you are talking about cost (most states do charge for DL and State IDs) and even the ID is free if you have to get a birth certificate that is an expense.


Everything You’ve Ever Wanted to Know About Voter ID Laws - ProPublica

then could one not say that the availability of DMVs is the problem, not the requirements of an ID card. I'm sorry, there's nothing logically wrong with asking someone to prove who they are. Would you want a bank to allow withdrawal of money without identification?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Ohio, Nevada, Chicago, Philly, Nevada, Fla, and on and on when it comes to voter fraud. It exists... and it is abused.

I recently read a report - maybe I can go back and find the link - that stated that there was a projection that over 13 million illegal votes would be cast during this mid term election. Over 13 million.

Colorado will be the next example of voter fraud given their crazy laws with voting.

 

[pkt77242]

Ohio, Nevada, Chicago, Philly, Nevada, Fla, and on and on when it comes to voter fraud. It exists... and it is abused.

I recently read a report - maybe I can go back and find the link - that stated that there was a projection that over 13 million illegal votes would be cast during this mid term election. Over 13 million.

Colorado will be the next example of voter fraud given their crazy laws with voting.

I would love to know where you go that number from, because that would put illegal votes at about 15% of the votes and that is just about unbelievable. Most midterms see about 75-80 million votes.

 

[T Town Tommy]

For the doubters out here, may I suggest a book by J. Christian Adams entitled "Injustice." It gives an account by a former Justice Department Attorney with working knowledge of voter fraud cases brought before and ignored completly by Eric Holder.

It exists, it's getting worse, and will be even more rampant in the 2016 election cycle.

 

[connor_in]

OK...I have tried to be non-bias in all my other pics posts in this thread, but I saw this one and it is on the topic being discussed, so...here goes...

 

[RDU Irish]

John Fund: Wisconsin and the Voter Fraud Agenda - WSJ

Fun article for those of you that think there have only been a couple dozen cases of voter fraud in the history of our country.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I would love to know where you go that number from, because that would put illegal votes at about 15% of the votes and that is just about unbelievable. Most midterms see about 75-80 million votes.

I will try to find the link as I was also doubting that high a number. I have read other accounts where the number is much lower but still well over 3 million. Old Dominion just did a report stating that there was in excess of a million people who will vote today who are not even citizens.

Voter Fraud and Voter I.D. | RealClearPolitics

 

[T Town Tommy]

John Fund: Wisconsin and the Voter Fraud Agenda - WSJ

Fun article for those of you that think there have only been a couple dozen cases of voter fraud in the history of our country.

I believe he has written a few books on the subject as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Elec...=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415137645&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Counting...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415137645&sr=1-2

 

[ACamp1900]

I believe he has written a few books on the subject as well.

"Obama" is just one letter away from "Go Bama"... Coincidence? I think not.

 

[GoIrish41]

I will try to find the link as I was also doubting that high a number. I have read other accounts where the number is much lower but still well over 3 million. Old Dominion just did a report stating that there was in excess of a million people who will vote today who are not even citizens.

Any report can make any accusations and predictions the authors wish. Who is presecuting all of these millions of voter fraud and it not being reported? Catch the people breaking the law and then we can have a real discussion. Until then, this conversation seems like a desperate reach to prove an illusive point. And truthfully, the argument is being made by some people I know to be much smarter and fact-based than their current arguments are demonstrating. Until there is actual verifiable proof, I will continue to say there is such a infinately small number of cases of in-person voter fraud that it is a waste of time and resources to dramatically change the laws in any state or certainly in the country. Voter fraud is already illegal ... prosecute it! Or is that just applicable to the gun law argument?

 

[Irish YJ]

"Obama" is just one letter away from "Go Bama"... Coincidence? I think not.

LMFAO and ROTFF

 

[irishog77]

"Obama" is just one letter away from "Go Bama"... Coincidence? I think not.

One of many reasons dude almost never campaigned (or visited in an "official" capacity) in the Volunteer state and why he never had a chance of winning anything here.

 

[irishog77]

Any report can make any accusations and predictions the authors wish. Who is presecuting all of these millions of voter fraud and it not being reported? Catch the people breaking the law and then we can have a real discussion. Until then, this conversation seems like a desperate reach to prove an illusive point. And truthfully, the argument is being made by some people I know to be much smarter and fact-based than their current arguments are demonstrating. Until there is actual verifiable proof, I will continue to say there is such a infinately small number of cases of in-person voter fraud that it is a waste of time and resources to dramatically change the laws in any state or certainly in the country. Voter fraud is already illegal ... prosecute it! Or is that just applicable to the gun law argument?

Right. The Tallahassee AD didn't prosecute jameis winston. He obviously did nothing to that girl then.

The current administration and the AG have let it be known they are not prosecuting people for certain crimes. It doesn't mean that a crime still didn't occur.

 

[pkt77242]

then could one not say that the availability of DMVs is the problem, not the requirements of an ID card. I'm sorry, there's nothing logically wrong with asking someone to prove who they are. Would you want a bank to allow withdrawal of money without identification?

I would say that I am not completely against voter ID laws but I am against voter ID laws being passed for partisan reasons just as I dislike gerrymandered congressional districts (no matter which side is doing it).

If I can bring a birth certificate to get my state ID or DL why can't I bring my birth certificate to vote?

 

[Irish YJ]

Any report can make any accusations and predictions the authors wish. Who is presecuting all of these millions of voter fraud and it not being reported? Catch the people breaking the law and then we can have a real discussion. Until then, this conversation seems like a desperate reach to prove an illusive point. And truthfully, the argument is being made by some people I know to be much smarter and fact-based than their current arguments are demonstrating. Until there is actual verifiable proof, I will continue to say there is such a infinately small number of cases of in-person voter fraud that it is a waste of time and resources to dramatically change the laws in any state or certainly in the country. Voter fraud is already illegal ... prosecute it! Or is that just applicable to the gun law argument?

Whether you believe it exists or not, wouldn't it be easier to control/stop with the requirement of an ID? Why should it take a bunch of time and cost to pass a law requiring something so basic which is already required for everything else in our lives.

 

[irishog77]

I thought liberals wanted proactive government and government that works for the people. Doesn't presenting a laundry list of hoops to jump through help prevent bank fraud, illegal firearm sales and possession, mortgage fraud, etc.? At least that is what liberals have told us-- government intervention is helping make us safer and protecting our property better.

How is requiring an ID to vote not in line with that thinking? Won't people who were going to commit voter fraud now dissuaded from doing so?

 

[pkt77242]

John Fund: Wisconsin and the Voter Fraud Agenda - WSJ

Fun article for those of you that think there have only been a couple dozen cases of voter fraud in the history of our country.

The interesting part about that is that most of the votes are more along the lines of mistakes (for example college students from other areas voting there, or someone letting felons vote which has nothing to do with voter ID, you still have to show up and say who you are). This also goes back to my point that the biggest risk of fraudulent voting is voting by mail (as the article so clearly points out) and the next biggest risk is the people running the precincts themselves which again has nothing to do with voter ID. So thank you for making my points for me.