Turf/ Jumbotron Thread

[IrishLion]

This thread is amazing.

Who cares what the players want?

THEY'RE ONLY THE ONES WHO PLAY ON THE @$^$^#$ SURFACE.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

They became that way during 20 years of Monk's mismanagement of America's #1 football program.

Elite post.

 

[ACamp1900]

Hey what do you think about making Touchdown Jesus visible from the stadium again?

I have been saying this for years... one I'm a bit superstitious about sports and we haven’t one a single big bowl game since TDJ lost his view...

on a more serious point though, I think it would speak volumes to the priorities of the University to make this happen again. Extra seats and the money that goes along with it should not take priority over the bigger vision of the University's goals. I'm not saying that is what is happening, but making this change sends a great message… IMnsHO

 

[chubler]

This thread is amazing.

Who cares what the players want?

THEY'RE ONLY THE ONES WHO PLAY ON THE @$^$^#$ SURFACE.

I agree with the spirit of your post wholeheartedly. Field SURFACE should be a decision made according to the best interests of the players. However, you let the players make all the decisions and you end up with Florida in the last years of Urban Meyer.

The other subject of this thread, stadium design, however, should most definitely not be left to the whims of the players, who I can tell you are nothing like Urban's guys, or worse yet to the whims of the fans. Notre Dame Stadium has been an architectural statement about this school's priorities since Fr. Ted insisted we build the Memorial Library instead of expanding the football stadium in 1963. It's still as understated and low-profile as an 80,000 seat stadium can possibly be. Compare that to, say, Ohio Stadium, which hosts football games for a school that I'm willing to say prioritizes football above pretty much everything else. Or aTm's plans for their new football palace. They tower over the surrounding buildings, while the view of our stadium can be blocked from a couple hundred yards away by a 3 Story academic building (Oshag).

I love the concept art for the new renovation, and I realize the driving motive for making the stadium the center of campus is the fact that we've run out of room for horizontal sprawl, but focusing everything on football's house like that scares me a little bit as well. It seems like a small thing, but building those kinds of messages in concrete can have a real effect in my opinion. I'd love to see what was proposed earlier, build up a little it, put in a big Jumbotron on the south end, and open the north back up. You could put in nice brick towers that'd match the rest of campus, frame Touchdown Jesus, and remind everyone what's really important. If you're willing to leave a big hole in the stadium that built this school to make sure Jesus can watch, I think you're on the right track.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Been to Notre Dame's campus one time. One of the guys asked where the football stadium was and we were standing directly across from it. Personally, I think Touchdown Jesus should be able to be seen from the stadium. I don't have an issue with turf and think it is better than grass- especially given the climate conditions every year. The jumbotron would be fine as well as long as the content was not sold out to advertising, etc.

My point being, use the turf and jumbotron to bring the stadium up to more modern feel, but keep the traditions there as well. After all, tradition and pagentry is what makes college football.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Hey what do you think about making Touchdown Jesus visible from the stadium again?

For those of you who haven't been to a game, the upper ring of the stadium blocks (to the North side) the view of the library, to wit, Touchdown Jesus. If that ring were taken down on the North side, and increased on both the East and West, with the South side (Eddy Street, featuring a giant (two-sided) Jumbotron, what would you think?

I threw something out like this idea earlier. I completely agree. After all, we've been mediocre since his view was obstructed. Allowing him to watch the game again may put us back on the up swing.

 

[chubler]

I threw something out like this idea earlier. I completely agree. After all, we've been mediocre since his view was obstructed. Allowing him to watch the game again may put us back on the up swing.

Call me superstitious, but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see a dramatic improvement immediately after his view was restored.

 

[GowerND11]

I have been saying this for years... one I'm a bit superstitious about sports and we haven’t one a single big bowl game since TDJ lost his view...

on a more serious point though, I think it would speak volumes to the priorities of the University to make this happen again. Extra seats and the money that goes along with it should not take priority over the bigger vision of the University's goals. I'm not saying that is what is happening, but making this change sends a great message… IMnsHO

The Sheraton Hawaii Bowl isn't a big bowl?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

Call me superstitious, but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see a dramatic improvement immediately after his view was restored.

thats not superstition. and i am hoping, like most everyone else suggesting this, this was meant to be in italics and that its being said in jest.

 

[ResLife Hero]

The one thing I'd like to see incorporated into any structural changes would be improving how the stadium traps sound. The seating at the stadium doesn't slop down very steeply which allows a lot of noise to dissipate. Stadiums like Kyle Field and Autzen Stadium have been designed to trap sound, and I think it really boosts a team's home field advantage. Maybe adding a few more upper rings of seating and a second press box would help with that.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Compare that to, say, Ohio Stadium, which hosts football games for a school that I'm willing to say prioritizes football above pretty much everything.

Ehh, no. The football team brings in tens of millions, the research brings in billions. Let me know when Ohio State spends $1.2 billion on a new football stadium like they did research hospital. To Ohioans, it's what matters most, to the administration it's a means to an end and excellent way to fondle the collective balls of the state for fundraising money.

I love the concept art for the new renovation, and I realize the driving motive for making the stadium the center of campus is the fact that we've run out of room for horizontal sprawl, but focusing everything on football's house like that scares me a little bit as well. It seems like a small thing, but building those kinds of messages in concrete can have a real effect in my opinion. I'd love to see what was proposed earlier, build up a little it, put in a big Jumbotron on the south end, and open the north back up. You could put in nice brick towers that'd match the rest of campus, frame Touchdown Jesus, and remind everyone what's really important. If you're willing to leave a big hole in the stadium that built this school to make sure Jesus can watch, I think you're on the right track.

This is silly. Never have I seen "leave room for Jesus" taken to such measures. It's a mural on an otherwise hideous building from the height of modernism, which generally stands in stark contrast to the real architectural gems on campus.

This is a simple discussion. There is a way to do everything we on this board want in a classy manner. I suspect that Notre Dame Stadium will one day resemble Lambeau Field and do so in a humble manner architecturally speaking. It won't be gaudy like Alabama's Bear-Bryant Stadium.

You can have a jumbotron without ads. Problem solved. You can put in turf and leave the field design. Problem solved. You can expand the stadium and increase it's uses without making it visually imposing like Penn State's stadium.

These are all really simple problems.

 

[chubler]

Ehh, no. The football team brings in tens of millions, the research brings in billions. Let me know when Ohio State spends $1.2 billion on a new football stadium like they did research hospital. To Ohioans, it's what matters most, to the administration it's a means to an end and excellent way to fondle the collective balls of the state for fundraising money.

I didn't mean to sound so sanctimonious, my bad there. Several late nights studying in a row seems to have affected my tone.

I made my point about Ohio State badly, obviously an exaggeration. More precisely, I don't want to be a school that bends very easily on any given principle just because it will help the football team, and Ohio State was the first school I could come up with that has a comparable football situation. Michigan would've been a more apt comparison, I think. Call me elitist, or a nerd, but I really value the unique culture of the people I go to school with. People at ND care a lot about their education, and want to put it to use to make a difference in the world, even if they party 4 nights a week. The football guys I know fit in with 'regular' students very well. I think letting guys in who are factually illiterate (not an exaggeration btw) like some very well-regarded B1G schools do would negatively affect all of that.

This is silly. Never have I seen "leave room for Jesus" taken to such measures. It's a mural on an otherwise hideous building from the height of modernism, which generally stands in stark contrast to the real architectural gems on campus.

This is a simple discussion. There is a way to do everything we on this board want in a classy manner. I suspect that Notre Dame Stadium will one day resemble Lambeau Field and do so in a humble manner architecturally speaking. It won't be gaudy like Alabama's Bear-Bryant Stadium.

You can have a jumbotron without ads. Problem solved. You can put in turf and leave the field design. Problem solved. You can expand the stadium and increase it's uses without making it visually imposing like Penn State's stadium.

These are all really simple problems.

I think it's pretty indisputable that Touchdown Jesus is iconic, in a good way, no matter how ugly the building behind him.

As far as the stadium goes, I was a bit too grand in scope with how I put it, but I'm not going to give ground on my opinion that what you emphasize in how you build sends a message. There's a reason all roads in Versailles point towards the palace, for example. Permanently emphasizing the stadium creates a perception about how important football is, and that gives the coach and the program more influence. Think about Alabama, or Penn State. I think its fair to say that in both those cases football had/has its way with the academic mission of the university, and that's what I want to avoid. Like I said before, there's a reason Fr. Hesburgh refused to expand the stadium despite absurd demand throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

That said, you're definitely right that opening the north end to the library is absurd. It would be very interesting to see a design, though.

I'm all for expansion, fieldturf (assuming someone more informed than I has confirmed it's actually the best choice), and a jumbotron. I also dont want our fieldturf, our stadium, or our field to be the same as everyone else's. We've spent a good 80 of our 125 years of football trying to establish ourselves as different. Why go back on that now?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

That said, you're definitely right that opening the north end to the library is absurd. It would be very interesting to see a design, though.

I'm all for expansion, fieldturf (assuming someone more informed than I has confirmed it's actually the best choice), and a jumbotron. I also dont want our fieldturf, our stadium, or our field to be the same as everyone else's. We've spent a good 80 of our 125 years of football trying to establish ourselves as different. Why go back on that now?

not exactly. we havn't spent 80 years "trying to establish difference", we stayed the same as everyone else evolved. im not putting a positive or negative with this point. its the staying the same over all those years that have made us different--not by doing things different. even though the culture of ND IS in fact THAT difference.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I didn't mean to sound so sanctimonious, my bad there. Several late nights studying in a row seems to have affected my tone.

haha I'm in the same boat I feel you there brother

I made my point about Ohio State badly, obviously an exaggeration. More precisely, I don't want to be a school that bends very easily on any given principle just because it will help the football team, and Ohio State was the first school I could come up with that has a comparable football situation. Michigan would've been a more apt comparison, I think. Call me elitist, or a nerd, but I really value the unique culture of the people I go to school with. People at ND care a lot about their education, and want to put it to use to make a difference in the world, even if they party 4 nights a week. The football guys I know fit in with 'regular' students very well. I think letting guys in who are factually illiterate (not an exaggeration btw) like some very well-regarded B1G schools do would negatively affect all of that.

And none of this has to do with the stadium's changes. Modernizing the stadium (which is not the same thing as the cancer known as modernism, just so we're clear haha) doesn't impact that at all.

I think it's pretty indisputable that Touchdown Jesus is iconic, in a good way, no matter how ugly the building behind him.

Can't argue that, it's a very nice mural. Unlike basically the same library on BGSU's campus with a mural that we'll just say is a clear miss haha

My point is that Notre Dame has a clear aesthetic brand that is nothing short of crucial, and the library simply isn't in line with it fundamentally. The building was bailed out big time with Touchdown Jesus.

As far as the stadium goes, I was a bit too grand in scope with how I put it, but I'm not going to give ground on my opinion that what you emphasize in how you build sends a message. There's a reason all roads in Versailles point towards the palace, for example. Permanently emphasizing the stadium creates a perception about how important football is, and that gives the coach and the program more influence.

Nothing would be more Notre Dame than expanding the stadium and including thousands of square feet of classroom space. The Notre Dame image, in a nutshell, is the fusion of elite academics and athletics. That's what separates the university not only from Alabama or Penn State on one hand, but from Northwestern or Duke on the other. They have to do both at an extreme high level.

I simply cannot fathom the logic behind this artificial inhibiting of the football program. It's not an either/or at Notre Dame when it comes to greatness, it's an "all of the above."

Think about Alabama, or Penn State. I think its fair to say that in both those cases football had/has its way with the academic mission of the university, and that's what I want to avoid. Like I said before, there's a reason Fr. Hesburgh refused to expand the stadium despite absurd demand throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

It's not hard for me to say that Father Hesburgh was wrong, despite my great respect for the man.

That said, you're definitely right that opening the north end to the library is absurd. It would be very interesting to see a design, though.

They are out there.

I'm all for expansion, fieldturf (assuming someone more informed than I has confirmed it's actually the best choice), and a jumbotron. I also dont want our fieldturf, our stadium, or our field to be the same as everyone else's. We've spent a good 80 of our 125 years of football trying to establish ourselves as different. Why go back on that now?

It puts me at ease to see the perfect job done with the Compton Ice Arena. It's not an issue of what Notre Dame does, it's how it does it. Architecturally speaking I have full confidence in the leaders at Notre Dame to get this done if the willpower is there to just do it.

 

[chubler]

not exactly. we havn't spent 80 years "trying to establish difference", we stayed the same as everyone else evolved. im not putting a positive or negative with this point. its the staying the same over all those years that have made us different--not by doing things different. even though the culture of ND IS in fact THAT difference.

I disagree. I think we've definitely chosen to stay "stuck in the past" on plenty of things, especially under Malloy. But if you look back at it, there's also a distinct pattern of the CSC's making conscious choices to ensure we didn't end up a football factory, or being perceived that way. Making sure the spent more on the library than the JACC when both were built at the same time, refusing to expand the stadium, etc. Best example I've got off the top of my head, sorry to keep using it haha. The line is definitely blurred on which is which, though.

 

[GowerND11]

haha I'm in the same boat I feel you there brother



And none of this has to do with the stadium's changes. Modernizing the stadium (which is not the same thing as the cancer known as modernism, just so we're clear haha) doesn't impact that at all.



Can't argue that, it's a very nice mural. Unlike basically the same library on BGSU's campus with a mural that we'll just say is a clear miss haha

My point is that Notre Dame has a clear aesthetic brand that is nothing short of crucial, and the library simply isn't in line with it fundamentally. The building was bailed out big time with Touchdown Jesus.



Nothing would be more Notre Dame than expanding the stadium and including thousands of square feet of classroom space. The Notre Dame image, in a nutshell, is the fusion of elite academics and athletics. That's what separates the university not only from Alabama or Penn State on one hand, but from Northwestern or Duke on the other. They have to do both at an extreme high level.

I simply cannot fathom the logic behind this artificial inhibiting of the football program. It's not an either/or at Notre Dame when it comes to greatness, it's an "all of the above."



It's not hard for me to say that Father Hesburgh was wrong, despite my great respect for the man.



They are out there.



It puts me at ease to see the perfect job done with the Compton Ice Arena. It's not an issue of what Notre Dame does, it's how it does it. Architecturally speaking I have full confidence in the leaders at Notre Dame to get this done if the willpower is there to just do it.

Holy Shyt! I never knew the library had a twin!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have been saying this for years... one I'm a bit superstitious about sports and we haven’t one a single big bowl game since TDJ lost his view...

on a more serious point though, I think it would speak volumes to the priorities of the University to make this happen again. Extra seats and the money that goes along with it should not take priority over the bigger vision of the University's goals. I'm not saying that is what is happening, but making this change sends a great message… IMnsHO

They will do both : more seats; better view. Write it down with Jimmy's nekid running challenge.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chubler
Think about Alabama, or Penn State. I think its fair to say that in both those cases football had/has its way with the academic mission of the university, and that's what I want to avoid. Like I said before, there's a reason Fr. Hesburgh refused to expand the stadium despite absurd demand throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Originally Posted by Buster Bluth

It's not hard for me to say that Father Hesburgh was wrong, despite my great respect for the man.

Fr. Hesburgh tried to dismantle the football program. Look at the career of Terry Brennan. I have a friend that was hired as one of his assistants. Many things happened that were hidden from the average fans attention. Brennan was hired with cart blanche for recruit scholarships. After he was hired they were cut to less than 24 a year. I think it was actually under twenty. And in those days a player had only three years of eligibility. All other schools had no limits. ND was actively and consciously being phased out of the game of football.

That lasted until it cost too much. Then the situation was finally completely reversed and Notre Dame became a football power again three coaches later with the hire of Ara.

Monk was Hesburgh Lite

 

[chubler]

haha I'm in the same boat I feel you there brother.

I simply cannot fathom the logic behind this artificial inhibiting of the football program. It's not an either/or at Notre Dame when it comes to greatness, it's an "all of the above."

It puts me at ease to see the perfect job done with the Compton Ice Arena. It's not an issue of what Notre Dame does, it's how it does it. Architecturally speaking I have full confidence in the leaders at Notre Dame to get this done if the willpower is there to just do it.

You've got me with the Compton point. That place should be the handbook for anyone renovating or expanding anywhere.

I'll try to communicate better haha.

I really don't think a lack of flash holds us back in any way, artificially or not, as long as it doesn't look boring like it does now. I'd like the stadium to maintain its unobtrusiveness. Ideally, it would be the kind of building that doesn't jump out at you, but once you do look at it, it's obviously a top-tier facility. It's like the difference between a bright orange aston martin, and a black one. Once calls attention to how nice it is, the other is obviously of equally high quality, but you have to look at it to realize that. The current drawings aren't very far off, just a little too 'look at me' for my tastes.

 

[chubler]

Fr. Hesburgh tried to dismantle the football program. Look at the career of Terry Brennan. I have a friend that was hired as one of his assistants. Many things happened that were hidden from the average fans attention. Brennan was hired with cart blanche for recruit scholarships. After he was hired they were cut to less than 24 a year. I think it was actually under twenty. And in those days a player had only three years of eligibility. All other schools had no limits. ND was actively and consciously being phased out of the game of football.

That lasted until it cost too much. Then the situation was finally completely reversed and Notre Dame became a football power again three coaches later with the hire of Ara.

Monk was Hesburgh Lite

Those things aren't up for debate factually, you're totally correct. I'm willing to entertain the idea that it was necessary in order to build academic credibility, however. ND, USC, and Miami, and I'd assume any other comparable schools built on the back of football, all went about it the same way. Most of the time, a decrease in football prominence coincides with an increase in academic prominence. When the situation becomes too dire and the golden goose is in danger of being seriously injured, you start pumping resources back into the program. ND just took a little too long to fully invest back into football this most recent cycle.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Holy Shyt! I never knew the library had a twin!

Modernism isn't very creative. I'll leave it that way, before I pop a blood vessel in my brain.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Those things aren't up for debate factually, you're totally correct. I'm willing to entertain the idea that it was necessary in order to build academic credibility, however. ND, USC, and Miami, and I'd assume any other comparable schools built on the back of football, all went about it the same way. Most of the time, a decrease in football prominence coincides with an increase in academic prominence. When the situation becomes too dire and the golden goose is in danger of being seriously injured, you start pumping resources back into the program. ND just took a little too long to fully invest back into football this most recent cycle.

Not buying it one iota.

 

[GowerND11]

Modernism isn't very creative. I'll leave it that way, before I pop a blood vessel in my brain.

It all reminds of Soviet Bloc construction. Very gloomy. Millersville's library, where I attended, reminded me of this as well. Tall, brick, little windows, and little in the way of eye appeal.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It all reminds of Soviet Bloc construction. Very gloomy.

Enjoy, 6:48 to 9:48: James Kunstler: How bad architecture wrecked cities - YouTube

 

[Rocket89]

Swarbrick Q&A with Hansen:

Notre Dame football: Swarbrick’s view of big picture - South Bend Tribune: Football

Q: Where does the stadium expansion/renovation project stand? The hope was that the study would be completed in October and then there would be an announcement and move to the next stage. Are we close to a formal announcement?

JS: No. There will be ongoing work in sort of the evaluation of it through January.

Q: How do you feel like it’s going?

JS: It continues to move along. The good news is there haven’t been any unforeseen developments. There are certainly challenges, but we knew that at the outset. It’s certainly a big project, and trying to figure out how to make it all work is not easy.

Q: Is the final step before the announcement a vote by the school’s leadership?

JS: I’ll leave to Father John (president Rev. John I. Jenkins) what the approval process looks like. It’s not for me to comment on.

Q: When head football coach Brian Kelly was asked about the less-than-stellar field conditions for the Notre Dame-Navy game last Saturday, part of his response was to the effect that whatever answers that needed to be found, Jack Swarbrick would find them. So how would you assess the situation with the grass field and where that might be headed?

JS: It’s been another challenging year for us from a turf perspective. Two years ago it was a bad year. Last year it was really quite good. This year it was bad again, so we’ll step back at the end of the season and sort of evaluate all those things that are producing this result and ask ourselves what we can do differently.

We’re just going to have to gain some confidence that if we stay with grass, we can not have these hills and valleys in terms of performance. So no decisions have been made as to whether we’ll change the surface or take a different approach to the surface we have. It’s all to be determined.
But I’m not prepared to have any more years with the situation we dealt with this year.

Q: As far as the BYU game (at Notre Dame Stadium on Nov. 23), is there anything that can be done between now and then to possibly improve the situation other than just staying off of the field?

JS: There are some things you can do, and they’re doing it. You do some additional aerating and some (other things), but it’s going to be a challenge, there’s no question. We need the weather to cooperate. Yet, on the other hand, it might be frozen. It might play better frozen.

Q: You have resodded it three times since March right, including in August and after the Oklahoma game in late September?

JS: Yes, it died post-commencement. So we had to replace it. And the sod we got on that replacement just wasn’t very good, combined with a chemical treatment that was done on that field. So we had to go back in and do it again.
I’ve never been able to grow grass here or at home.

Q: Is the resistance to synthetic FieldTurf anything more than tradition? Is there anyone who’s saying, “This could be unsafe?”, that there’s some other reason than giving up on tradition?

JS: I think different people have different reasons. Certainly, tradition is part of it. Some people just prefer the aesthetics of (natural grass). It’s sort of an offshoot of tradition, but it’s more than that. They like that as part of it, and I understand that.
And you get as many arguments on safety as there are people. There are elements of different surfaces which one injury may be more probable on one form of surface, while another is more probable on the other.

Over three years, we’ve looked at every study that’s come out and every piece of information, and it’s hard to draw anything conclusive from those.

One of the challenges of sort of analyzing that data is synthetic fields keep improving and changing. So a longitudinal study over 10 years is going to pick up different forms of artificial surfaces.

 

[GATTACA!]

It might play better frozen.

Well thats encouraging

 

[bmf175]

Doesn't sound like he is in a hurry to make the change. If there will be a change.

 

[ThePiombino]

Doesn't sound like he is in a hurry to make the change. If there will be a change.

I think he's just being political with the answer. I get the feeling Jack, BK, and the football program as a whole is on the verge of some major breakthroughs and Jack doesn't want to spook the powers that be, so he's basically walking on eggshells regarding any sensitive subjects.

 

[JughedJones]

I really can't wait till we put this thread to rest.

We need both. Make em classy.

 

[NCND]

This **** is never gonna get solved.