Trump Presidency

[johnnycando]

Trump to nominate Pruitt to lead U.S. environmental agency: statement | Reuters
Thu Dec 8, 2016 | 6:39am EST

I love it!

 

[Buster Bluth]

A lot of folks would disagree with you on China...
Sorry for conflating...
Simple way to kill all the voter fraud crap. Drivers license or state ID card... Still stumped on how requiring ID is considered trampling folks rights... works pretty well in several states.. It's required here in GA... I live and work in very diverse locations. Nobody seems to feel trampled on.

The problem is that they require IDs and then, surely by chance I'm sure, start to close DMVs is poor areas and systematically increase the barrier of entry into the voting booth.

A small hurdle to you is a larger one to a poor elderly black lady in rural North Carolina, which is why Federal courts shot the measure down while saying that the law would “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”

Of course we'll have to see if the MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO VOTER ILLEGALLY show up in any way during these recounts. If not, surely it's worth an actual congressional investigation, no?

Plus think about it, it's easy to get your hands on a fake ID. Most of my friends had them in college...if I'm willing to commit a felony for a vote I'm probably willing to get a fake ID.

 

[wizards8507]

The problem is that they require IDs and then, surely by chance I'm sure, start to close DMVs is poor areas and systematically increase the barrier of entry into the voting booth.

That graphic is WILDLY misleading. African Americans tend to live in higher-density areas that already have higher concentrations of DMV offices, while rural (i.e. whiter) areas are often under-served. If an office closes in an urban area and opens in a rural area, the average urban voter is probably still closer to the nearest office than the average rural voter, not to mention the benefits of public transportation available in cities.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That graphic is WILDLY misleading. African Americans tend to live in higher-density areas that already have higher concentrations of DMV offices, while rural (i.e. whiter) areas are often under-served. If an office closes in an urban area and opens in a rural area, the average urban voter is probably still closer to the nearest office than the average rural voter, not to mention the benefits of public transportation available in cities.

That's not the case in the south. Blacks outside of the south are almost always in urban areas (see: redlining), but the south has very rural stretches of black majority counties.

The "Black Belt...

...aligns with cotton plantations...

...which aligns with a 100 million-year old continental coastline (sorry Creationists)...

...which formed the necessary soil conditions to grow great cotton:

Mindblowing historical facts there, IMO.

There are very rural black parts of the south and the closure of DMVs in counties can force poor blacks to drive a great distance to get a current ID. But surely the area of the country that isn't even a lifetime removed from legal segregation and a host of horrific Jim Crow laws wouldn't be trying to pull a fast one, would they? Would they??

 

[kmoose]

The problem is that they require IDs and then, surely by chance I'm sure, start to close DMVs is poor areas and systematically increase the barrier of entry into the voting booth.

A small hurdle to you is a larger one to a poor elderly black lady in rural North Carolina, which is why Federal courts shot the measure down while saying that the law would “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”

Of course we'll have to see if the MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO VOTER ILLEGALLY show up in any way during these recounts. If not, surely it's worth an actual congressional investigation, no?

Plus think about it, it's easy to get your hands on a fake ID. Most of my friends had them in college...if I'm willing to commit a felony for a vote I'm probably willing to get a fake ID.

I don't understand.......... someone says that it is no big deal in Georgia, and you use a map of Alabama to dispute that?

 

[SavIrish]

I don't understand.......... someone says that it is no big deal in Georgia, and you use a map of Alabama to dispute that?

Haaaaa!

 

[SavIrish]

That's not the case in the south. Blacks outside of the south are almost always in urban areas (see: redlining), but the south has very rural stretches of black majority counties.
The "Black Belt...

...aligns with cotton plantations...

...which aligns with a 100 million-year old continental coastline (sorry Creationists)...

...which formed the necessary soil conditions to grow great cotton:

Mindblowing historical facts there, IMO.

There are very rural black parts of the south and the closure of DMVs in counties can force poor blacks to drive a great distance to get a current ID. But surely the area of the country that isn't even a lifetime removed from legal segregation and a host of horrific Jim Crow laws wouldn't be trying to pull a fast one, would they? Would they??

It's comical that a guy from Ohio feels the need to always paint the southern population (black & white) a particular way, as if he knows what it is like to live in this area....Maybe ND can't good southern recruits (black & white) because they don't want to be in an area of the country where people belittle them and call them uneducated idiots.....just food for thought

 

[NorthDakota]

That's not the case in the south. Blacks outside of the south are almost always in urban areas (see: redlining), but the south has very rural stretches of black majority counties.

The "Black Belt...

...aligns with cotton plantations...

...which aligns with a 100 million-year old continental coastline (sorry Creationists)...

...which formed the necessary soil conditions to grow great cotton:

Mindblowing historical facts there, IMO.

There are very rural black parts of the south and the closure of DMVs in counties can force poor blacks to drive a great distance to get a current ID. But surely the area of the country that isn't even a lifetime removed from legal segregation and a host of horrific Jim Crow laws wouldn't be trying to pull a fast one, would they? Would they??

There are like ten dmv's in the entire state of nd. We seem to do just fine and we have next to no public transportation.

 

[wizards8507]

There are like ten dmv's in the entire state of nd. We seem to do just fine and we have next to no public transportation.

That's are also like ten black guys in the entire state of ND.

 

[Legacy]

All the President-Elect's Generals

That may not be the last of it. Trump has met with General David Petraeus, the former head of the CIA, apparently about the secretary of state position. Stanley McChrystal, a former Army general, said this summer he’d decline a job with Trump if offered, but his name remains in circulation. So is that of Admiral Mike Rogers, the head of the NSA. Retired Army General Jack Keane says he declined an offer to lead the Pentagon.

“Appointing too many generals would throw off the balance of a system that for good reason favors civilian leadership,” writes The New York Times’ Carol Giacomo. “The concern is not so much that military leaders might drag the country into more wars. It is that the Pentagon, with its nearly $600 billion budget, already exercises vast sway in national security policymaking and dwarfs the State Department in resources.” In The Washington Post, Phillip Carter and Loren DeJonge Schulman warn that “great generals don’t always make great Cabinet officials” and add that “relying on the brass, however individually talented, to run so much of the government could also jeopardize civil-military relations.” Rosa Brooks, meanwhile, suggests this isn’t much to worry about, saying that the old, formalized notions of civilian control are obsolete.

The G&G Cabinet - Goldman-Sachs and Generals.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The cotton belt stuff was super interesting.

ID laws are presumptively invalid because they raise the costs of voting. You'd have to show that they were narrowly tailored to solve a compelling governmental interest. You can't just assert that voter fraud is a problem, you'd have to prove that it is and that IDs are an effective and not overbroad method of stopping it.

 

[wizards8507]

ID laws are presumptively invalid because they raise the costs of voting.

No they don't. Every state that has introduced voter ID laws has also introduced FREE state-issued photo IDs.

 

[Legacy]

Courts are finally pointing out the racism behind voter ID laws
Laws targeting minority voters are no different today than they were during the Jim Crow era.

 

[IrishinSyria]

No they don't. Every state that has introduced voter ID laws has also introduced FREE state-issued photo IDs.

Still the opportunity cost involved in getting one. Making them free (usually for low income people only, right) for sure helps with the narrowly tailored part of the analysis but as long as you are requiring something to vote that you don't require otherwise you have to do the analysis.

 

[SavIrish]

Still the opportunity cost involved in getting one. Making them free (usually for low income people only, right) for sure helps with the narrowly tailored part of the analysis but as long as you are requiring something to vote that you don't require otherwise you have to do the analysis.

In getting an ID? you need an ID to not only vote but open a bank account, buy beer & cigarettes and the biggie is to drive, so the opportunity cost should be obsolete when you are obtaining an ID......now if your saying that poor black communities do not need an ID for anything but to use to vote than that is extremely belittling to Black Americans in the cotton belt

 

[wizards8507]

Still the opportunity cost involved in getting one. Making them free (usually for low income people only, right) for sure helps with the narrowly tailored part of the analysis but as long as you are requiring something to vote that you don't require otherwise you have to do the analysis.

What opportunity cost? (I know the answer, but let's play this out so you can see how stupid it is.)

EDIT: I'm impatient, so I'll answer for you. The opportunity cost of lost wages, right? WRONG! Because guess what else requires proof of ID? Employment. Meaning anyone with wages to lose (i.e. "opportunity costs") already has a photo ID and therefore doesn't need to take time out of work to go and get one.

 

[Irish YJ]

I live in ATL. We have as you know a diverse population. We have strict photo ID requirements to vote. I don't hear anyone complaining.

I'm also OK with making IDs free and accessible.

Fake IDs... lol... there's enough technology out there to combat that issue.

The biggest opposition typically comes from lib states (NY and CA), both of which have a high concentration of illegal immigrants. Is that by chance?

It's funny how the GOP, which is typically against regulation has no problem with it. Libs who typically cheer for more regulation are against it.

One needs an ID to drive a car, board a plane, buy alcohol, create a bank account, and a million other things, yet we have no problem with those requirements.

 

[IrishLax]

Some food for thought: Voter ID: Other Countries Require It | National Review

 

[phgreek]

Still the opportunity cost involved in getting one. Making them free (usually for low income people only, right) for sure helps with the narrowly tailored part of the analysis but as long as you are requiring something to vote that you don't require otherwise you have to do the analysis.

Jury Duty?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Oh no the guys from the 18th century who didn't have any clue what a modern economy and educational system would look like, and who didn't even know what germs were, didn't call for national education oversight.

They did, however, note that dead men shouldn't govern the living and agreed that times change and so does government. If you want to sue the government and take your case to the Supreme Court, go right ahead. The rest of us choose to not act like it's the 1700s any more.

Obnoxious and elitist, as always. The points you mentioned about the founding fathers, modern economy, and lack of knowledge in medicine are all valid.

That doesn't mean creating the Federal Department of Education should exist without a Constitutional Amendment. Carry on, scholar, and when you get a chance please look at the PISA results I posted yesterday and tell me our country should continue on this path of K-12 education.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Jury Duty?

Not 100% sure I follow? I think it's fine to have certain responsibilities, I don't think it's fine to tie them to the right to vote unless you can show it's absolutely necessary.

I'd be ok with voter id laws if they came with:

-proactive efforts by the state governments to get people IDs (goal should be 100%)
-automatic voting registration
-making election day a national holiday

 

[IrishinSyria]

I live in ATL. We have as you know a diverse population. We have strict photo ID requirements to vote. I don't hear anyone complaining.

I'm also OK with making IDs free and accessible.

Fake IDs... lol... there's enough technology out there to combat that issue.

The biggest opposition typically comes from lib states (NY and CA), both of which have a high concentration of illegal immigrants. Is that by chance?

It's funny how the GOP, which is typically against regulation has no problem with it. Libs who typically cheer for more regulation are against it.

One needs an ID to drive a car, board a plane, buy alcohol, create a bank account, and a million other things, yet we have no problem with those requirements.

With all due respect, that might be because you're not listening: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/u...-from-voter-rolls-in-new-elections-rules.html and Appeals Court blocks Kansas, Alabama, Georgia on voter ID rule | Reuters

My stance on voter ID laws isn't that they shouldn't be possible, just that there should be a heavy burden on states that impose them to prove they're non-discriminatory in both practice and intent.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Trump gets one presidential intelligence briefing a week: sources | Reuters

If true this is fucking bananas

e. though maybe he gave Pence the same foreign+domestic portfolio offer he gave Kasich:

Indiana Governor Mike Pence, Trump's vice president-elect, has been receiving his own PDB at least six days a week, the sources familiar with the matter said.

 

[NorthDakota]

With all due respect, that might be because you're not listening: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/u...-from-voter-rolls-in-new-elections-rules.html and Appeals Court blocks Kansas, Alabama, Georgia on voter ID rule | Reuters

My stance on voter ID laws isn't that they shouldn't be possible, just that there should be a heavy burden on states that impose them to prove they're non-discriminatory in both practice and intent.

Lol its not discrimination to ask that everyone proves who they are with a photo ID.

Every state should require it.

 

[Goldedommer44]

It is when States require ID's that minorities are less like to have or are able to get. I agree everyone should have to prove who they are but there are many ways to do that other then only certain ID's and not others

 

[Buster Bluth]

I don't understand.......... someone says that it is no big deal in Georgia, and you use a map of Alabama to dispute that?

So I guess the "works pretty well in several states.." line is something only I'm seeing?

[/B]

It's comical that a guy from Ohio feels the need to always paint the southern population (black & white) a particular way, as if he knows what it is like to live in this area....Maybe ND can't good southern recruits (black & white) because they don't want to be in an area of the country where people belittle them and call them uneducated idiots.....just food for thought

Please feel free to point out some historical inaccuracies on my part.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Some food for thought: Voter ID: Other Countries Require It | National Review

My issue isn't with general philosophy that people should have an ID to vote. It's the specific laws and overarching insidious effort to block blacks from voting.

There isn't a voter fraud problem. A meta-analysis found 31 cases out of a billion, and these politicians cannot sight relevant fraud in the discussion of these bills. So these governments are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. These governments, coincidentally, also have a history of putting up barriers that block blacks from voting. That isn't a little suspicious to you?

Politically it's genius because conservatives fall right in line behind "well ya see, personal responsibility to get the ID" while Alabama closes down DMVs in black rural counties...

 

[Buster Bluth]

Obnoxious and elitist, as always. The points you mentioned about the founding fathers, modern economy, and lack of knowledge in medicine are all valid.

That doesn't mean creating the Federal Department of Education should exist without a Constitutional Amendment. Carry on, scholar, and when you get a chance please look at the PISA results I posted yesterday and tell me our country should continue on this path of K-12 education.

Would you blame the federal Department of Transportation for the potholes on your street? No, because even though money comes down from a series of federal funds and grants and some of that makes it to your town...your town still has far more oversight in how the roads are maintained than the federal government.

Given that local governments still control most of how classrooms function, I don't get your constant insinuation that the nation's educational performances are tied to the federal department.

It's also extremely interesting to me that you will complain about the existence of a federal department in the same paragraph that you wish the nation was performing better. In your worldview, logically there is no reason to care about the educational performance of other states, no? They are their own bosses doing their own thing and people in other states should have no input there, because that'd be unconstitutional, no?

 

[NorthDakota]

My issue isn't with general philosophy that people should have an ID to vote. It's the specific laws and overarching insidious effort to block blacks from voting.

There isn't a voter fraud problem. A meta-analysis found 31 cases out of a billion, and these politicians cannot sight relevant fraud in the discussion of these bills. So these governments are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. These governments, coincidentally, also have a history of putting up barriers that block blacks from voting. That isn't a little suspicious to you?

Politically it's genius because conservatives fall right in line behind "well ya see, personal responsibility to get the ID" while Alabama closes down DMVs in black rural counties...

It's not hard to get an ID. Don't make it sound like it's this horrible burden.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's not hard to get an ID. Don't make it sound like it's this horrible burden.

It doesn't need to be a horrible burden to have an impact, which again points back to the genius of the laws.